Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: korishinzo@*******.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:16:29 +0000
>From: "Uriah Blatherwick"



>So I read the first seven novels in preparation for GMing as I don't > have
>access to a gaming group to get into the "look and feel" of the > SR
world.
> They were mostly just okay writing (I liked Changeling a > lot) but the
>fiction adds a bit of fun that reading the sourcebooks > doesn't have.
>Anyway so the real question is: since the books are no > longer numbered
>after 'Into the Shadows' (which is numbered > incorrectly IMO) how
>will I ever figure out what order to read them > in? Is there a list
>somewhere? Also anybody have a favorite and > what did they like about
>it? Any real stinkers?

Find a later book, like Nosferatu, and it will have a list inside the back
cover of all books prior to it, in order. IIRC, most of the later books
have a list in the back cover. The newest books, like Burning Time, only go
back to Lone Wolf, so you need to get slightly older one to see the early
books in order.

As to favorites, hmmm...

Number one, I do not subscribe to the Gurth's dislike for the novels at all.
Just because a novel for a game setting foes not match all the rules dopes
not mean it is a bad story. I read the SR books for flavor, and they have
greatly enhanced my GMing over the years. They also are a great place to
get ideas for runs to throw at your players. You have a good
start-middle-end format to work with. You keep the main plot points,
discard the choices made by the protagonists, and you have a wonderful
non-linear adventure at your disposal. This requires a bit of imaination
and flexibility, but, ideally, we all have that anyway. ;)

That said, read Shadowplay. It is a great book for that "new runners
meeting old runners" mood. Picture a brand spankking newbie runner, fresh
from running with a small-time gang, thrown into a rough and tumble run with
an expienced runner dragged reluctantly out of retirement. All too often,
in my experience, players want to play experienced runners right from the
start. This is stupid, IMO, and I tend to punihs it. Mr. J cuts newbies
more slack, as do anyone experienced in the biz. New players, trying to
play old runners, ends up being a disaster. Even experienced players make
some really dumb mistakes as they learn how to work as a team with this
latest batch of team mates. I run NPCs who are very intolerant of stupid
mistakes made by experienced runners. They should know better. Shadowplay
gives every player and GM a great indicator of scale between old timers and
newies on the streets of SR.

Anything by Nyx Smith is a good read as well. His books are loaded with
characters I have borrowed as NPCs. The borderline psychotic, militant
water company employee in Who Hunts the Hunter has cropped up in many of my
games. Dirk Montgomery is a great character to read about, with his never
ending sarcastic commentary. Wolf, Raven, and company are always fun to
follow. Wolf is the first good example I encountered of a Shamanic Physical
Magician, and Kid Stealth is great example of how much chrome is almost too
much chrome. Psychotrope is loaded with flavor text for those Reality
Filters used by the deckers in your group. Dead Air has my favorite
representation of Lofwyr. He was just a little too gentle in Never Trust an
Elf. *grins* Streets of Blood and Nosferatu are not necessarily good SR
stories, but the characters are just the right amount of quirky. And the
plots are every GM's dream for punishing gullibile characters or irritating
players. "Congratulations on completing that difficult run and being a
hero, Mr. Shadowrunner. Your efforts just doomed a bunch of very nice,
innocent people, and made us, the real villains, richer and more powerful.
By the way, should you decide to try and undo the damage, we know where your
family lives. Good day." Pure, unadulterated mean...a real pleasure when
you have been sufferig through the annoyance of a munchkin or three.

>BTW: My vote is also for a 2m ceiling. The area above where all the >
>wires and ducts run is called the plenum and should be about 1m. >
>Above that, steel I beams run and support the additional height of a >
>concrete slab. The slab is really the only place I can see >
>futuretech helping much since presumably plasticrete is tougher than >
>regular cement.

A 6' 6" cieling. 2 meters? Do me a favor. Stand up wherever you are right
now. Reach up over your head. Can you touch the cieling? If you can, you
or others around you are very uncomfortable, at least subconsiously. You
likely have poor posture, as you unconsciously hunch down when walking,
especially through doors, since they are going to be at most 5' 8" high.
There is a very good reason why current building code for public office
space calls for 9' ceilings. If you are of average height, and possess an
average psyche, that is about the clearance you need to feel comfortable,
and hence productive. Building code for homes calls for 8' clearance, but
many home designers are designing main living areas with vaulted ceilings.
Human beings like space over their head, on average at least. While I agree
that office designers might not think of trolls in a Japanese corporation,
they would consider ergonomics. Employee comfort, with an eye towards
employee productivity, would be very important. Especially in a building
designed to be entirely self contained. I still think the Arcology should
have 4 meter stories. This gives you an adequate plenum, space for support
joists, and plenty of room for ergonomic working/living quarters.

Yes, the people of modern Japan are used to living in cramped quaters. But,
that is not a function of preferance, IMO, it is a function of restricted
space. There is just not a lot of space in the cities of Japan. If you are
building the largest structure in the world, why would you force yourself to
use those same restrictions? Luxury space is a sign of affluence, and no
can argue the fact that Japan is home to some very affluent companies in the
2060 of SR. I find it hard to believe they would build their crown jewel
architectural endeavor with cramped quarters.

Korishinzo
--how's that for two completely different topics in one email? ;)

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Message no. 2
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:21:40 +0200
According to Ice Heart, on Wed, 25 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Number one, I do not subscribe to the Gurth's dislike for the novels at
> all.

I don't dislike all the novels (as you may recall, I'm still looking for
the first two Secrets of Power novels :) just certain specific ones -- like
Headhunters.

> Just because a novel for a game setting foes not match all the rules
> dopes not mean it is a bad story.

True, but it does reduce believability a lot, which IMHO often makes for a
bad story.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 06:35:52 -0800
> According to Ice Heart, on Wed, 25 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...
>
> > Number one, I do not subscribe to the Gurth's dislike for the novels at
> > all.
>
> I don't dislike all the novels (as you may recall, I'm still looking for
> the first two Secrets of Power novels :) just certain specific ones --
> like
> Headhunters.
>
> > Just because a novel for a game setting foes not match all the rules
> > dopes not mean it is a bad story.
>
> True, but it does reduce believability a lot, which IMHO often makes for a
>
> bad story.
>
[Valeu John EMFN]
True, like in one book where an ex-stripper takes a Predator and a
light pistol and starts making headshots.
As I'm reading this, I'm mentally racking up TNs and thinking....
"Ok, Base skill of 2 (being generous), close range (4), two weapons (+2 for
first shot, +4 for second), Headshot (Called shot, +4)... God I would have
loved to rolled that last night."

EMFN John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
Message no. 4
From: ahz@*****.com (ahz@*****.com)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:55:46 +0000
[Valeu John EMFN]
> True, like in one book where an ex-stripper
takes a Predator and a
> light pistol and starts making headshots.
> As I'm reading this, I'm mentally racking up TNs
and thinking....
> "Ok, Base skill of 2 (being generous), close range
(4), two weapons (+2 for
> first shot, +4 for second), Headshot (Called shot,
+4)... God I would have
> loved to rolled that last night."
>
> EMFN John Valeu
> -AKA- TimeKeeper
>

You don't know many Strippers, do you? I know a lot that
carry handguns, and date cops/millitary. Some are better
than I am, and as far as the mods. Don't forget the str
bonus's. Do you know how are the pole tricks are? I'd
have to give them an above everage stat for str and dex.
Plus, coolness has to be factored in aswell...say -3 to
tn.

Lunatec
Message no. 5
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:29:03 +0200
According to Valeu John EMFA, on Mon, 30 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> True, like in one book where an ex-stripper takes a Predator and a
> light pistol and starts making headshots.
> As I'm reading this, I'm mentally racking up TNs and thinking....
> "Ok, Base skill of 2 (being generous), close range (4), two weapons (+2
> for first shot, +4 for second), Headshot (Called shot, +4)... God I
> would have loved to rolled that last night."

Exactly :) Though I don't think I actually worked out the TNs, people getting
blown away with light pistols by average-skilled shooters (from the
description) just doesn't feel right when you've played the game for a
decade...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:32:54 -0800
[Valeu John EMFN]
>> True, like in one book where an ex-stripper
>>takes a Predator and a
>> light pistol and starts making headshots.
>> As I'm reading this, I'm mentally racking up TNs
>>and thinking....
>> "Ok, Base skill of 2 (being generous), close range
>>(4), two weapons (+2 for
>> first shot, +4 for second), Headshot (Called shot,
>>+4)... God I would have
>> loved to rolled that last night."
>
>> EMFN John Valeu
>> -AKA- TimeKeeper
>

>You don't know many Strippers, do you? I know a lot that
>carry handguns, and date cops/millitary. Some are better
>than I am, and as far as the mods. Don't forget the str
>bonus's. Do you know how are the pole tricks are? I'd
>have to give them an above everage stat for str and dex.
>Plus, coolness has to be factored in aswell...say -3 to
>tn.

>Lunatec

Actually, according to the book, her bartender/boss was the leader of a
Runner team, but that was about as close as she ever came to a gun. And she
was dating an artist at the time (who happened to be a relative of someone
shady, can't remember if it was Mafia or corp.)

All in all, an OK book. Solid Mediocrity. Think Shadowplay and Ragnarock
were better.

"Oh Shit, I think we just killed Lofwyr."


EMFN John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
Message no. 7
From: flakjacket@***********.com (flakjacket@***********.com)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:10:58 +0100 (BST)
Valeu John wrote:

> All in all, an OK book. Solid Mediocrity. Think Shadowplay and Ragnarock
> were better.
>
> "Oh Shit, I think we just killed Lofwyr."

Hoo-boy. Are you in for it now. Personally I hated the bloody book. Everything about it
practically screamed cliche/munchy. And reality wise? In in-game world wise even? This is
the group that takes machine guns and a sodding Barrett 121 along when they go to simply
intimidate someone? Feh.
Message no. 8
From: GuayII@***.com (GuayII@***.com)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:36:14 -0400
In a message dated Tue, 1 Oct 2002 05:10:58 +0100 (BST), flakjacket@***********.com
writes:

>This is the group that takes machine guns and a sodding Barrett 121 along when they go
to simply intimidate someone? Feh.
>

It worked, didn't it? :D

(actually, I don't remember if it worked or not. I know that I'd be plenty intimidated...)

--Cash
Message no. 9
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:12:03 +0200
According to flakjacket@***********.com, on Tue, 01 Oct 2002 the word on the street was...

> This is the group that takes machine guns and
> a sodding Barrett 121 along when they go to simply intimidate someone?
> Feh.

Well, wouldn't you be intimidated when a bunch of people armed with BFGs
shows up on your doorstep? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:23:53 +1000 (EST)
--- Gurth <Gurth@******.nl> wrote: > According to
flakjacket@***********.com, on Tue, 01
> Oct 2002 the word on the street was...
>
> > This is the group that takes machine guns and
> > a sodding Barrett 121 along when they go to simply
> intimidate someone?
> > Feh.
>
> Well, wouldn't you be intimidated when a bunch of
> people armed with BFGs
> shows up on your doorstep? :)
>
NO! because I always answer the door with my own
fraggin' BFG, after all I didn't take kindly when the
whole of the UCAS government & lonestar came knocking
on my door (now I have a clear veiw 360 degrees,
ground zero, & an extended beer garden) looking for
"Satan the Sadist" cop killer & overall evil dude.
Besides no one knocks in the pullyup barrens, at least
not at my door anyway. (GZ)

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS
- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about ShadowRN Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.