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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: mc23@**********.com (MC23)
Subject: Shadowrun 2070 (was: 4th ed)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 01:32:28 -0500
On Dec 1, 2005, at 11:59 AM, Brett Sanger wrote:

> Frankly, this IMPROVES the roleplay. Each tradition thinks they are
> completely right with no evidence saying that other traditions
> obviously
> know something they don't.

It only improves Roleplay if the new books supports this old Shadowrun
philosophy. When Games-Workshop released Warhammer 40, 000 3rd edition
they thought they could drop background from their army codexes (rule
books) to cut page count and save everyone money. In a short time they
quickly saw new army compositions in stores and tournaments that ended
up unrelated or often even counter to the nature and philosophy of
those armies. They have since learned from that and 4th ed codexes
(that's the GW plural not latin and they will admit that) now has that
background included once more.

Shadowrun 4 does seem to be the end cap in my collection after all
these years. For every step forward there are two steps back. Variable
magic rating is a good thing. Combat (and burned out) Mages not being
the god of all combat is good. Not having to relearn a spell is good,
but that could have also been solved by changing the rules on
increasing the known force rating, Flattening out the differences in
traditions while including build your own in the main rulebook is big
mistake IMNSHO. Shadowrun 1-3 was my favorite magic system in all RPG,
not just mechanically but because of background as well. Now it's
gutted for new players and the new game mechanics.

For all intensive purposes, Shadowrun is not really a 4th edition at
all but a 1st edition of Shadowrun 2070. That is not a good or bad
thing in and of itself, but just the reality of what we are really
going from. I'm more looking forward to Shadowrun 2070 2nd edition
where they start to clean up some of the mess they made from this one.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they
are,
not as they ought to be."
-The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce

I am MC23
Message no. 2
From: u.alberton@*****.com (Bira)
Subject: Shadowrun 2070 (was: 4th ed)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:17:34 -0200
On 12/2/05, MC23 <mc23@**********.com> wrote:
>
> Flattening out the differences in
> traditions while including build your own in the main rulebook is big
> mistake IMNSHO. Shadowrun 1-3 was my favorite magic system in all RPG,
> not just mechanically but because of background as well. Now it's
> gutted for new players and the new game mechanics.

As I have already no doubt said before, this is exactly what I liked
about SR4. I don't think the previous core books gave so much freedom
on the sort of characters you could create, rules-wise. Sure, they had
otaku, bioware, initiation and nifty traditions in copious amounts,
but for that you had to buy a lot of sourcebooks, some of which ended
up being "mandatory" even if it was never stated explicitly in the
text.

Background-wise, it hasn't changed much, at least on the magic part.
Mages and shamans still see things pretty much the same way, and I
don't think any of them actually measured their spells in terms of
Force inside the game. Shamans wouldn't like numbers very much, and
mages would certainly come up with a much more complex system.

The best part about SR's background is still the ease with which you
can discard and/or modify it, in my opinion.

--
Bira
http://compexplicita.blogspot.com
http://sinfoniaferida.blogspot.com
Message no. 3
From: bullcon@*****.com (Bull)
Subject: Shadowrun 2070 (was: 4th ed)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:15:19 -0500
Dunno if this will end up really addressing your concerns or not, MC, but
Rob has said that he wants to make the, umm... "Expansion Rulebooks" (Not
sure what exactly they're being called, but basically the equivelant of the
Gear books for 3rd ed, i.e. M&M, CC, etc) much more than just simply gear
and new spell catelogues. He's intersted in putting in a large chunk of
world information about that specific area of Shadowrun. Sounded like he
wants Street Magic to be more Awakenings than Man and Machine or even the
old Grimoires.

Bull
Message no. 4
From: pasquires@*****.com (Paul Squires)
Subject: Shadowrun 2070 (was: 4th ed)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:55:00 +0000
On 12/2/05, Bull <bullcon@*****.com> wrote:
> Dunno if this will end up really addressing your concerns or not, MC, but
> Rob has said that he wants to make the, umm... "Expansion Rulebooks" (Not
> sure what exactly they're being called, but basically the equivelant of the
> Gear books for 3rd ed, i.e. M&M, CC, etc) much more than just simply gear
> and new spell catelogues. He's intersted in putting in a large chunk of
> world information about that specific area of Shadowrun. Sounded like he
> wants Street Magic to be more Awakenings than Man and Machine or even the
> old Grimoires.
>
> Bull

The problem here is that although those style books were the best in
previous versions (especially SSG for 3e) they were also the ones that
we could re-use with 4e. I kept Shadowtech around for use with all
three editions

It's starting to seem more likely that *everything* from previous
versions can now be discarded. Frankly, this doesn't make things
better! The alternative would seem to be that some of the fluff from
previous versions will be re-used - sure will make those new books
good value :rolleyes:

More and more, SR4 doesn't seem like SR and as MC states it is a new
game entirely.

Cheers,
Paul

--
Paul Squires
pasquires@*****.com | OpenPGP Key ID: 0x423003E0
MSN: pa_squires@*******.com | ICQ: 318471677
Message no. 5
From: u.alberton@*****.com (Bira)
Subject: Shadowrun 2070 (was: 4th ed)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 18:05:43 -0200
On 12/2/05, Paul Squires <pasquires@*****.com> wrote:
> More and more, SR4 doesn't seem like SR and as MC states it is a new
> game entirely.

I don't think this is bad, personally :).

--
Bira
http://compexplicita.blogspot.com
http://sinfoniaferida.blogspot.com

Further Reading

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Thwap!