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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Doctor Doom <jcha@******.NET>
Subject: Shadowrun and Stylistics (now safe for fabrics)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:13:32 -0500
I. Shadowrun

Von Herrn Jameson:

> Apparently everyone from Adam J. to the DLOH are violently insistent that
> it be spelled "Shadowrun." No capitalized "R."
> I can't claim to be a fan of it either, but as I recall, that was a conceit
> of yours from day one.

Naturally, my intent was never to vex the aesthetic sensibilities of the
Dark Lord on High; quite the contrary, I am want to eschew such
transgressions. In days of yore, the stylistic tendency was not -- at least
my perceptions were that it was not -- peculiar to myself. However, styles
are notoriously subject to the vicissitudes which come with the passage
of time.

Although the cessation of old tendencies is always fraught with difficulty,
I shall endeavor to do so.

II. Styles

I find it curious that my particular slightly archaic sesquipedalian mode
of expression should actually find itself as an active thread. I approach
expression through correspondence this way for /effect/. Much as
consonance
and dissonance are utilized in musical composition, the terms one employs
to express one's self contribute to the overall impact. How one
communicates
is as important as what one communicates. Acrimoniousness and even
intricacies are valid if not frequently seen in everyday parlance.

Now, as to Mongoose's point with regards to the conventional usage of
"disabuse," he is correct. I would defend my own utilization as
"grammatically legal." The term means "to free from error or
fallacy,"
such a definition does not requisite that an individual be the object of
said action; however, convention states that it does. In fact, my
original draft of my communique did say "disabuse me" but, upon reflection,
I
considered the phrasing too suggestive of a challenge, giving the missive
a belligerent tone (which was not my intent). Accordingly, I modified
it before transmission. Only following this did I consider how this ran
counter to how the term is more commonly utilized.

Whatever the merits or appeal (or lack thereof) of my peculiar means of
composition, may I submit that this devolves only to a matter of the
aesthetics of a particular style. I do work in academia, even assist in
the preparation of papers for publishing; my degree is in the humanities,
upon which I hope to build further educational experience, so perhaps it
is fitting that I should elect to appeal to the more sophisticated (and
complex) than resorting to the demotic Anglo-Saxon. One must keep in
practice, after all.

Electronic mail is just that: electronic correspondence, which would
seem make it more akin to the formal traditions of letter-writing.
However, it is more often than not treated and approached with the
informality of a telephone conversation. Oftentimes it suffers from
being altogether too terse, frequently too confrontational, and
insufficiently considered previous to it being submitted to the
receiving party. Any of these deficiencies are likely to exacerbate
the e'er present possibility of miscommunication. All three acting
in concert can almost determine that one's ideas will not be
comprehended fully, if at all.

[ one might even go so far as to claim that the incessant invocation of an
ever-increasing (informal) register of acronyms in the stead of phrases
further obfuscates clarity, as they can frequently be a source of
confusion to those not fully initiated in the verbal minutia and
linguistic customs peculiar to "net-ese"/"net jargon" as well as to
individuals who might otherwise be considered "regulars." ]

Brevity may be the soul of clarity, but brevity to a /point/, to a purpose,
to an effect. I may stand alone in my position, but I maintain there is
something to be said for a meditative appeal to a different aesthetic.

Now, hopefully, the analysis of my mode of speech has expiated and more time
granted to matters pertaining to Shadowrun.

-- Doctor Doom

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
"Has the planet gone MAD? My brother, passion's hostage; I ask for justice?
Denied. I shall not submit. I shall conquer! I shall rise! My name is
Gomez Addams, and I have seen Evil! I have seen Horror! I have seen the
unholy maggots which feast in the dark recesses of the human soul!

"But until today, I have never ... seen ... you."
-- Gomez Addams, "Addams Family Values"
Message no. 2
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun and Stylistics (now safe for fabrics)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:08:19 -0400
On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Doctor Doom wrote:

->I. Shadowrun
->
->Von Herrn Jameson:
->
<Montrous Snip #1>
->I find it curious that my particular slightly archaic sesquipedalian mode
->of expression should actually find itself as an active thread. I approach
->expression through correspondence this way for /effect/. Much as
->consonance
->and dissonance are utilized in musical composition, the terms one employs
->to express one's self contribute to the overall impact. How one
->communicates
->is as important as what one communicates. Acrimoniousness and even
->intricacies are valid if not frequently seen in everyday parlance.

In otherwords, you talk a lot because you wish to make others
believe you have a lot to say (whether or not you could clearly say the
same amount in only 2 Kb instead of 20kb is besides the point). I, for
one, have a MB limit on my mail. Thank goodness for me you respond only
very rarely. Although, you don't add in an indeterminable number of
messages about useless threads either, so I guess you're actually more
efficient in your use of language than most of us on here, if through
careful replies if not by precise statements and use of abbreviations.

<Monstrous Snip #2>
->Electronic mail is just that: electronic correspondence, which would
->seem make it more akin to the formal traditions of letter-writing.
->However, it is more often than not treated and approached with the
->informality of a telephone conversation. Oftentimes it suffers from
->being altogether too terse, frequently too confrontational, and
->insufficiently considered previous to it being submitted to the
->receiving party. Any of these deficiencies are likely to exacerbate
->the e'er present possibility of miscommunication. All three acting
->in concert can almost determine that one's ideas will not be
->comprehended fully, if at all.

I don't believe it... you used an infrequently used abbreviation
no shorter than the original word... "e'er".

->[ one might even go so far as to claim that the incessant invocation of an
-> ever-increasing (informal) register of acronyms in the stead of phrases
-> further obfuscates clarity, as they can frequently be a source of
-> confusion to those not fully initiated in the verbal minutia and
-> linguistic customs peculiar to "net-ese"/"net jargon" as well
as to
-> individuals who might otherwise be considered "regulars." ]

They can always ask what the abbreviations mean.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 3
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun and Stylistics (now safe for fabrics)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:26:55 -0400
At 06:08 PM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote:

> In otherwords, you talk a lot because you wish to make others
>believe you have a lot to say (whether or not you could clearly say the
>same amount in only 2 Kb instead of 20kb is besides the point).

No, that's not what he said. Reread it. He said that he considers the
style to be as important as the substance. That *how* you say something is
almost, if not equally as important as *what* you are saying. His own
style is to employ "archaic" words and phrases in a rather verbose manner.
Quite the opposite of MC23, for example, who will sometimes reply with
solitary word or phrase. Spike does this also.

To be honest, I enjoy reading his posts *because* they are so wordy. I
love words, I love to use them, manipulate them, play with them. I've used
words like "disabuse" before. To read those words, and even those few that
I'm unfamiliar with, used in a proficient and easy manner is a joy to watch.

I'll take a 20Kb message from Herr Doktor over a 2Kb message written in
"net-speak" anyday. I personally can't stand more than a few pseudo-HTMLs,
and forget acronyms, with the sole exception of BTW (By The Way) and the
obvious technical acronyms (such as HTML). And abbreviations aren't
terribly attractive either. Common contractions, cool. Judicious snipping
of material, excellent.

> I don't believe it... you used an infrequently used abbreviation
>no shorter than the original word... "e'er".

Again, that's an example of his selected style David. You're hammering him
for a style, not over anything substantial or of real worthiness of
discussion. And by the way, I believe that it technically would be a
contraction, not an abbreviation.

> They can always ask what the abbreviations mean.

Which further increases the amount of messages people have to download, as
one person asks, twelve people reply. Unnecessary, since people really
ought to keep their usage of acronyms and abbreviations to a minimum
anyway; it's sloppy language. Not that I'm perfect or a grammar fascist,
but I still think it's sloppy.

Erik the Hyper-Obnoxious Impatient One DAMN! When Do I Get To Leave Work
And Pick Up My BABY!!!

*gasp*

A few more hours...gotta hand on a few more hours...
Message no. 4
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun and Stylistics (now safe for fabrics)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:48:41 +0100
And verily, did David Foster hastily scribble thusly...
| They can always ask what the abbreviations mean.

And they do, taking up even more bandwidth with questions answered in the
FAQ....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 5
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun and Stylistics (now safe for fabrics)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 21:51:39 +0100
And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|To be honest, I enjoy reading his posts *because* they are so wordy.

<AOL>

ME TOO!

</AOL>

It's like a breath of fresh air, reading a Doom posting, and I can't keep
the smile off my face most of the time when I'm reading 'em.

|I'll take a 20Kb message from Herr Doktor over a 2Kb message written in
|"net-speak" anyday. I personally can't stand more than a few pseudo-HTMLs,
|and forget acronyms,

Oooops.
Sorry...
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

Further Reading

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.