Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	dhinkley@***.ORG
Subject:	Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:38:34 +0000

Message no. 1 I just tried to connect to Paolo Marcucci's Shadowrun Archive. What I
got was the following:

HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found

The url I have for the Archive is
http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/index.html

Any explaination and or a correct (or is it corrected) URL would be
apprecated.

David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org

====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato

From:	Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sat, 1 Mar 1997 14:08:49 -0800

Message no. 2 >I just tried to connect to Paolo Marcucci's Shadowrun Archive. What I
>got was the following:
>
>HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found
>
>The url I have for the Archive is
>http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/index.html
>
>Any explaination and or a correct (or is it corrected) URL would be
>apprecated.

I ran into the same problem, just go to /paolo and stop there, then
follow the links to the archive. Netscape isn't up right now so I
don't have the exact URL. Also, the background of the archive is now
black(ick), and in frames, although there is probably a no-frames
version, I was too lazy to look for it. =)

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:27:21 -0500

Message no. 3 At 01:38 PM 3/1/97 +0000, dhinkley@***.ORG wrote these timeless words:
>I just tried to connect to Paolo Marcucci's Shadowrun Archive. What I
>got was the following:
>
>HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found
>
>The url I have for the Archive is
>http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/index.html
>
>Any explaination and or a correct (or is it corrected) URL would be
>apprecated.
>
He's switched the page over to Frames <mumble, grumble, whine> and the new
site is:

http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/

Paolo, just as a suggestion, you might want to find away to move back and
forth between different pages easily. I was reading through part of the
NERPS: Underworld book on HTML, and after I went to each section, the only
way I could go to another page was to go back to the main SR page and
reselect Nerps, the Nerps Underworld, then the next section...

<gripe>

Now, this is directed at you Paolo, just at Frames in general. It's really
annoying that with frames, you can't use your Browser's Back and Forward
feature to move thru the pages you've been to. This is because the browser
only actually registers the first page. Hitting Back takes you to wherever
you were before you entered that page.

The annoying part about this is that A) For the user, they have to rely on
the page designer designing back and forward type buttons onto every single
page, and even then this isn't straightforward. You can only jump to
certain main pages, rather flip thru every page you've been to. and B)
For the page maintainer, they need to key these features in, or the page
(especially a large page like Paolo's) is simply to difficult to navigate
thru...

I really hate Frames. They're the bane of the internet, as far as I'm
concerned...

Sorry...

</gripe>

Bull-the-Frame-Hating-Ork-Decker
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"

From:	"Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sat, 1 Mar 1997 16:55:51 -0600

Message no. 4 On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Bull wrote:

> At 01:38 PM 3/1/97 +0000, dhinkley@***.ORG wrote these timeless words:
> >I just tried to connect to Paolo Marcucci's Shadowrun Archive. What I
> >got was the following:
> >
> >HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found
> >
> >The url I have for the Archive is
> >http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/index.html
> >
> >Any explaination and or a correct (or is it corrected) URL would be
> >apprecated.
> >
> He's switched the page over to Frames <mumble, grumble, whine> and the new
> site is:
>
> http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/
>
> Paolo, just as a suggestion, you might want to find away to move back and
> forth between different pages easily. I was reading through part of the
> NERPS: Underworld book on HTML, and after I went to each section, the only
> way I could go to another page was to go back to the main SR page and
> reselect Nerps, the Nerps Underworld, then the next section...
>
> <gripe>
>
> Now, this is directed at you Paolo, just at Frames in general. It's really
> annoying that with frames, you can't use your Browser's Back and Forward
> feature to move thru the pages you've been to. This is because the browser
> only actually registers the first page. Hitting Back takes you to wherever
> you were before you entered that page.

What browser are you using? If your using Netscape you can go back within
a frame by clicking the right mouse button within the frame you want to go
back in and selecting "back in frame" Netscape 3.0 has the back button
set up to move back within frames, too.

-Q

---------------------------------------
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human
stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer

From:	Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:28:07 +0000

Message no. 5 > The annoying part about this is that A) For the user, they have to rely on
> the page designer designing back and forward type buttons onto every single
> page, and even then this isn't straightforward. You can only jump to
> certain main pages, rather flip thru every page you've been to. and B)
> For the page maintainer, they need to key these features in, or the page
> (especially a large page like Paolo's) is simply to difficult to navigate
> thru...
>
> I really hate Frames. They're the bane of the internet, as far as I'm
> concerned...
>
> Sorry...
>
> </gripe>
>
> Bull-the-Frame-Hating-Ork-Decker

I would have to agree with Bull here.. It is VERY hard for a designer
to make a GOOD site that uses frames, BUT so far my only gripe is
there is no up/down thinger on the right most frame so I can see half
an icon below the search icon but thats it. Also like the color
change.. its good looking :)
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
HTTP://www.datanet.ab.ca/users/hardware
http://wwp.mirabilis.com/360126 for my ICQ Pager

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:38:38 -0500

Message no. 6 At 04:55 PM 3/1/97 -0600, Q (not from Star Trek) wrote these timeless words:

>What browser are you using? If your using Netscape you can go back within
>a frame by clicking the right mouse button within the frame you want to go
>back in and selecting "back in frame" Netscape 3.0 has the back button
>set up to move back within frames, too.
>
I'm using Netscape 2, and I didn't know that feature was in there... That
makes life a little easier...

Thanks!

But I still like the old page style better...

Oh well... To each his own...

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"

From:	Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:09:55 EST

Message no. 7 On Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:38:34 +0000 dhinkley@***.ORG writes:
>I just tried to connect to Paolo Marcucci's Shadowrun Archive. What I
>got was the following:
>
>HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found
>
>The url I have for the Archive is
>http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/index.html
>
>Any explaination and or a correct (or is it corrected) URL would be
>apprecated.
>

The URL that I've been using is http://www.interware.it/shadowrun
I just used it last night so it's fairly current. :)

And you'll notice that the Archive has had another facelift... It looks
fairly cool (it's black, now uses a frame off to the side with buttons
like INDEX, CONTRIBUTE, SEARCH, CONTACT, etc..). Although the internal
forward/backward things aren't hooked up (I think I saw a note from Paolo
saying that they would be implemented fairly soon), and you can't use
your browser's forward/backward buttons either (doesn't register the
infividual Archive pages, just the whole archive it's self).

~Tim

From:	L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:08:56 EST

Message no. 8 On Sat, 1 Mar 1997 13:38:34 +0000 dhinkley@***.ORG writes:
>I just tried to connect to Paolo Marcucci's Shadowrun Archive. What I
>got was the following:
>
>HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found
>
>The url I have for the Archive is
>http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/index.html
>
>Any explaination and or a correct (or is it corrected) URL would be
>apprecated.
>
I've been using http://www.interware.it/shadowrun and it works pretty
well, at least I haven't had any problems (I was in there last night I
think)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

From:	Dark Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 1997 03:46:25 +0000

Message no. 9 In article <3.0.1.16.19970301172544.2b2fee04@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> writes

>Now, this is directed at you Paolo, just at Frames in general. It's really
>annoying that with frames, you can't use your Browser's Back and Forward
>feature to move thru the pages you've been to. This is because the browser
>only actually registers the first page. Hitting Back takes you to wherever
>you were before you entered that page.

Erm. I must be a freak of the internet then, I haven't encountered this
problem at all.... Hang on...

Click back button... Click forward button.... Nope works fine for me.
Leaves the menu where it is and navigates through the pages... Sorry
Bull, I obviously have the only browser on the internet that can cope.
<s>

I don't like frames much as they clutter the screen too much, but I
don't have any of the probs you mention. Ho hum... <g>

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 1997 02:37:44 -0500

Message no. 10 At 03:46 AM 3/2/97 +0000, Dark Avenger wrote these timeless words:

>Erm. I must be a freak of the internet then, I haven't encountered this
>problem at all.... Hang on...
>
>Click back button... Click forward button.... Nope works fine for me.
>Leaves the menu where it is and navigates through the pages... Sorry
>Bull, I obviously have the only browser on the internet that can cope.
><s>
>
>I don't like frames much as they clutter the screen too much, but I
>don't have any of the probs you mention. Ho hum... <g>
>
C'mon, Petey... You should know better by now... I'm using a browser
barely able to handle Frames... It puts a strain on my compy as it is...

If it wasn't for the fact that half the damn pages are Frames anymore, I'd
still be running Netscape 1.0... My compy liked that one...:)

And now I'm running into pages uses Java crap...:( <grumble, mutter,
bitch, moan>

They're changing the shit too quickly...

<sigh>

I hate SOTA...

I'm about 2 years behind...

Bull-the-behind-the-SOTA-decker
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"

From:	NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:48:21 -0500

Message no. 11 At 01:38 PM 3/1/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I just tried to connect to Paolo Marcucci's Shadowrun Archive. What I
>got was the following:
>
>HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found
>
>The url I have for the Archive is
>http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/index.html
>
>Any explaination and or a correct (or is it corrected) URL would be
>apprecated.

Try this. http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/ I've also come across what may
be a mirror site at http://zappa.interware.it/shadowrun/

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From:	MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 1997 04:17:44 -0500

Message no. 12 Q (not from Star Trek) wrote,
>What browser are you using? If your using Netscape you can go back within
>a frame by clicking the right mouse button within the frame you want to go
>back in and selecting "back in frame" Netscape 3.0 has the back button
>set up to move back within frames, too.

The Macintosh version has a floating pallette when you hold down on
the mouse button. It's those multiple mouse buttons that are throwing ya
Bull.
<grin>

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23

From:	Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 1997 04:46:41 -0500

Message no. 13 In response to the grumbles about frames:

You wanna know what sucks? WebTV fully supports frames; I can move
freely with no sweat. BUT those divotheads who put those stupid browser
detectors in their page don't recognize the WebTV browser as
frames-compatable. So I get a message that says, "Your browser is not
frames-compatable" so I'm left screaming at the TV, "IT DOES SO!!!". And
of course these meatsticks don't put their e-mail address on the
rejection page so I can tell them that the Internet doesn't revolve
around Netscape and Microsuck. <exasperation>Commies, I
swear!</exasperation>

Shawn
Almost missing the days when BBS's were the online world.

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh No!
Another damn page!
http://www.toptown.com/CENTRALPARK/DEOSYNE/
Ah what the hell; better than gardening!

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 1997 12:21:31 +0100

Message no. 14 Bull said on 20:27/ 1 Mar 97...

> Now, this is directed at you Paolo, just at Frames in general. It's really
> annoying that with frames, you can't use your Browser's Back and Forward
> feature to move thru the pages you've been to. This is because the browser
> only actually registers the first page. Hitting Back takes you to wherever
> you were before you entered that page.

Not in Internet Explorer. It does only display the URL for the page with
the frames, not the documents loaded into each frame, and Refresh loads
only the page-with-frames again, not the current files that are actually
the on screen, but in a little test I just ran (a local file with two frames),
it went through the files with forward and back without problems.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
They all are.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 1997 15:33:41 +0000

Message no. 15 On 2 Mar 97 at 1:48, NightLife wrote:

>
> Try this. http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/ I've also come across what may
> be a mirror site at http://zappa.interware.it/shadowrun/
>
Those two are actually the same computer...:-)

Bye mike

From:	GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:02:08 -0700

Message no. 16 > From: Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
> Microsuck. <exasperation>Commies

ROFLOL.....I haven't heard that one before....
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer

From:	Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Mon, 3 Mar 1997 23:21:14 -0500

Message no. 17 >around Netscape and Microsuck. <exasperation>Commies, I
>swear!</exasperation>

No, we already had the "commies" discussion.
/ Brett "SwiftOne" Borger
\\\' , / // bxb121@***.edu
\\\// _/ //' http://www.opp.psu.edu/~bxb24/swiftone.htm
\_-//' / //<' Webmaster, Office of Physical Plant,
\ /// <//' The Pennsylvania State University
/ >> \\\` http://www.opp.psu.edu
/,)-^>> _\`
(/ \\ / \\\
// //\\\
((`

From:	Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:30:20 +0100

Message no. 18 Hi, nice bunch of guys :)

Unfortunately, I'm not able to fully check my mail these days (I'm busy
trying to refine the archive...) so I missed completely this thread. From
what I've read so far, there is an argument against frames. I'm not too
happy to use them, but it is a good enough system to simplify navigation in
a large group of pages. I've tested the system with a variety of browsers
(IE3/4 NN3/4) and all of them have the back/forward buttons working ok. You
can even use the Backspace key in IE and the Alt+BackArrow combination in
NN to go back to the previous page in the same frame. But I'm digressing...
given that the color scheme was quite well accepted, I guess the only thing
to do is to move from a frame-based navigation to a more subtle and
advancedtechnology thing. It can be done. I, personally, hate
Java/Javascript and all those things that are not guaranteed to work on any
browser. The frames were implemented because I, mistakenly, thought that
all of you have a frame-capable browser and/or liked the navigational
model.

A large part of the archive is created in real-time from a sql database
using Active Server Pages (.asp files). There's actually nothing to stop me
to extend this tech and build a two column table with the buttons on the
left and the text on the right. This should be completely transparent to
the user (it will be just like the old look, only with icons :)

To sum it all up, there are several possibilities. Remember that the
archive is made for ya all, so if you don't like something, feel free to
tell me:

1) Remove the frames and return to the old style

2) Shrink the icons so that they fit in a small screen

3) Build a remote command floating window (wow!) and simplify to the excess
the data display

4) Huh... there was a point #4?

5) Go on with the frames

More than one answer is accepted :)

Bye, Paolo
______________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci
paolo@*********.it

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end

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 07:17:07 -0700

Message no. 19 Paolo Marcucci wrote:
|
| The frames were implemented because I, mistakenly, thought that
| all of you have a frame-capable browser and/or liked the navigational
| model.

How about LYNX? :) Seriously though, I just use Lynx cuz
it's fast, but can use NN when I have to. My problem, not
yours :)

| begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
| M>)\^(@`-`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <`
| M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@**%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$

[snip]

Err.. you had something Attached to your post. Thought I
would try to warn you before Spike goes after you ;)

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

From:	Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Sat, 1 Mar 1997 06:53:22 -0500

Message no. 20 Paolo please I would like you to do the following

1) Remove the frames and return to the old style

3) Build a remote command floating window (wow!) and simplify to the excess
>the data display

Thanks
ARRT
The Elven Mage

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:25:48 +0000

Message no. 21 || begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
|| M>)\^(@`-`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <`
|| M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@**%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$
|
|[snip]
|
|Err.. you had something Attached to your post. Thought I
|would try to warn you before Spike goes after you ;)

Hmmmm....
Didn't spot that one...
I must be slipping....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	"Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 11:19:47 -0600

Message no. 22 On 02:30 PM 3/4/97 +0100, Paolo Marcucci screamed at the world:
>A large part of the archive is created in real-time from a sql database
>using Active Server Pages (.asp files). There's actually nothing to stop me
>to extend this tech and build a two column table with the buttons on the
>left and the text on the right. This should be completely transparent to
>the user (it will be just like the old look, only with icons :)

The two column table will probably be the best bet. Personally, I don't
have any problems with frames as long as the author remembers the
target=_top attribute in the <a> tags for external sites.

I'd really try to avoid the floating window. For users with 640x480
resolution, that's a large chunk of unviewable window. Check out
www.saturncars.com for an example of this. I hate the floating navigation
windows more than I hate <blink> or the JavaScript crawl.

To get some idea on what your audience is using, my web site has
"Shadowrun" as the main keyword for search engines, and a view of stats for
my page (telltale.hart.org) shows that most people are looking at the
Shadowrun section initially. Here's the breakdown of the top ten browsers
that hit my site for the last 30 days, which I believe to be representative
of people interested in Shadowrun:

Netscape 3 53.6%
Netscape 2 20.5%
Microsoft 14.9%
AOL 3.2%
Netscape 4 2.5%
Netscape 1 1.6%
Lynx 1.1%
WebTV 0.5%
Unknown 0.4%
SPRY_Mosaic 0.2%

So about 75% of us use Netscape 2.0 or higher, fewer of us use MIE, fewer
than the Netscape 2.0 users.

From the other sites I've worked on up here at Infobahn, I've seen similar
rankings of MIE and Netscape. Netscape browsers are up in the 60 to 90
percent range, while MIE (supposedly Netscape's equal) languishes around
the 10 to 25% mark of all browsers since late fall.

Just something to keep in mind when designing the Shadowrun Archive.

Thomas Deeny
Infobahn Austin
512 320 0556

From:	Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:17:34 EST

Message no. 23 On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:30:20 +0100 Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
writes:
>Hi, nice bunch of guys :)

Hi, nice Archive maintainer :)

>To sum it all up, there are several possibilities. Remember that the
>archive is made for ya all, so if you don't like something, feel free
>to tell me:
>
>1) Remove the frames and return to the old style

They're OK, it's just that Netscape 2.0 seems to be rather un-reliable in
the back-forward department (most pages it works but there were a few
places where it simply didn't work - I think it was in the NERPS sutff.).

>
>2) Shrink the icons so that they fit in a small screen

I'll go for that, they look cool, it's just that only the ones above
"Contact" fit. Or maybe put in a scroll bar?

>
>3) Build a remote command floating window (wow!) and simplify to the
excess the data
>display

Wouldn't that require Java? I think for the time-being it's best to lay
off the Java 'cause not everybody's browser handles it (or handles it
well).

>4) Huh... there was a point #4?

Yes, I most definitly support point #4, that's the best thing about the
Archive. Long live point # 4!!

>
>5) Go on with the frames

Um...sure..OK, just as long as you tweak a few things.

>
>More than one answer is accepted :)

OH, did you mean more than one DIFFERENT answer? (fumbleing with
keyboard) Um.. if you get 4 or 5 hundred messages that look exactly like
this one...just ignore them

>begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
>M>)\^(@`-`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <`
>M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@**%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$
>MD 8`V (```(````.`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````3P``````

AAAAAGGGHHH!!!

~Tim

From:	Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:01:16 +0000

Message no. 24 >
> 4) Huh... there was a point #4?
>
> 5) Go on with the frames
>
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca

From:	"Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Archive Status??
Date:	Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:23:48 +0100

Message no. 25 On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 14:30:20 +0100, Paolo Marcucci wrote:

<snip>
>There's actually nothing to stop me
>to extend this tech and build a two column table with the buttons on the
>left and the text on the right. This should be completely transparent to
>the user (it will be just like the old look, only with icons :)

That would be the best solution ... for me. With one remark: don't forget
the alt= item in the img-tag for the icons ... with a bunch of images on
every page I will turn of the images after a while.

>To sum it all up, there are several possibilities. Remember that the
>archive is made for ya all, so if you don't like something, feel free to
>tell me:
>
>1) Remove the frames and return to the old style

Would be goot. The browser I use most often doesn't support frames. But
I've got Netscrape, so I can load pages with frames, but I usually only
do when it's a site I want to see, and not only for a quick glance.

<snip>
>3) Build a remote command floating window (wow!) and simplify to the excess
>the data display

That would require jave or even <shudder> ActiveX </shudder>. I wouldn't like
it. And it would be much more data to download, I assume.

<snip point #4>
>5) Go on with the frames

I most people like them do so. I dont't like frames, but who am I?
(Oh, I know who I am (but why do I ask then?) Well, I assume you understand
me)

>More than one answer is accepted :)

There you (all) have them.

>Bye, Paolo

--
Arno
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