Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	TillK <kortuem@*******.DE>
Subject:	Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:27:31 +0200

Message no. 1 A few days ago, I found a scan of the Assassin Promotional Flyer at
http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/mainpage.html
(Arkham´s Asylum), and it is in fact a sample SR3 character in the style o=
f
those presented in the BBB. Does anybody know whether this is the complete
flyer, or does it contain some additional info (esp. equipment)?

TillK ]B-]
#674 of 1000
------------------------------
-> Into the Darkness <-
http://members.xoom.com/yclept
------------------------------

From:	Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:53:59 -0700

Message no. 2 A few days ago, I found a scan of the Assassin Promotional Flyer at
http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/mainpage.html
(Arkham�s Asylum), and it is in fact a sample SR3 character in the style
of
those presented in the BBB. Does anybody know whether this is the complete
flyer, or does it contain some additional info (esp. equipment)?

+++++++++++++++++++

It sounds like what you saw is what you get. (click, click) Looks
like he has a better scanner than me, to, or better luck with that image.
Theres a back to the flyer, which has almost no information on it- just
the game name, FASA logo, and a release date of "1999".

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:40:56 +0200

Message no. 3 According to TillK, at 16:27 on 13 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> A few days ago, I found a scan of the Assassin Promotional Flyer at
> http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/mainpage.html
> (Arkham´s Asylum), and it is in fact a sample SR3 character in the sty=
le of
> those presented in the BBB. Does anybody know whether this is the comple=
te
> flyer, or does it contain some additional info (esp. equipment)?

I'm not sure what you've seen, but the one that came with my BABY has the
sample character on the front and an advertisment for Shadowrun: Assassin
on the back, no gear or anything like that in sight. You'll have to add up=

the costs for her cyberware, deduct that from her starting money, and buy
some equipment if you want to use her as an archetype.

Note that, according to one of my players (who tried to reverse-engineer
her so he could base a character on her), the character isn't even legal
according to SR3 character creation rules; apparently she has way too many=

attribute and/or skill points.

--
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Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:35:06 EDT

Message no. 4 In a message dated 10/13/1998 12:39:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> Note that, according to one of my players (who tried to reverse-engineer
> her so he could base a character on her), the character isn't even legal
> according to SR3 character creation rules; apparently she has way too many
> attribute and/or skill points.

Which is strange, because I came really close to right on the cost with her.
I can't recall what priorities I selected though that worked....have to
rethink this one.

-K

From:	Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:42:32 -0400

Message no. 5 Quoting K in the Shadows (Ereskanti@***.COM):
> > Note that, according to one of my players (who tried to reverse-engineer
> > her so he could base a character on her), the character isn't even legal
> > according to SR3 character creation rules; apparently she has way too many
> > attribute and/or skill points.
>
> Which is strange, because I came really close to right on the cost with her.
> I can't recall what priorities I selected though that worked....have to
> rethink this one.

I didn't get this particular flyer with my BABY, and I haven't
been able to find the scanned version on the Arkham site. Can someone
give me a specific URL for the thing so I can take a look?

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4

From:	Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:55:04 +1000

Message no. 6 > I didn't get this particular flyer with my BABY, and I haven't
>been able to find the scanned version on the Arkham site. Can someone
>give me a specific URL for the thing so I can take a look?

Well, the URL is attached as part of my signature....

As for whether or not the Assassin's stats work out, well... From what I
can see, it doesn't. An Elf character starting with 400,000 take up
priorities B and C automatically. Forty-six points of Active Skills require
priority A in Skills (50 points), 26 points of Attributes require priority
B (funny how that's taken already isn't it), 7 points of language skills
add up (Intelligence of 5), and 30 points of Knowledge Skills require an
Intelligence of 6 (for which she only has a 5).
All in all, using the SR3 generation system she's got 4 points of Active
Skills left, spent 5 points too many on Attributes and 5 points too many on
Knowledge skills. Apart from that, she's hunkey dorey.

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:16:58 -0500

Message no. 7 From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 6:01 PM

> Well, the URL is attached as part of my signature....

Finding your site doesn't sound like his problem, Arkham; finding the scan
of the flyer is his problem. For the record the URL to the flyer itself is:

http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/gallery/assassin.html

> As for whether or not the Assassin's stats work out, well... From
>what I can see, it doesn't.

<snippy snip snip>

> All in all, using the SR3 generation system she's got 4 points of
>Active Skills left, spent 5 points too many on Attributes and 5 points
>too many on Knowledge skills. Apart from that, she's hunkey dorey.

Looking at the scan, I'm inclined to agree somewhat. OTOH, none of my NPCs
match up with the SR3 character generation system. Mine all start somewhere
and have advanced. I mean, do you use the chargen system for your NPCs?

I dunno, I stopped trying to justify things with the NPC sheets. I just
know I kinda like her. <g>

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:39:54 -0400

Message no. 8 Quoting Patrick Goodman (remo@***.NET):
> From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
> Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 6:01 PM
>
> > Well, the URL is attached as part of my signature....
>
> Finding your site doesn't sound like his problem, Arkham; finding the scan
> of the flyer is his problem. For the record the URL to the flyer itself is:
>
> http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/gallery/assassin.html
>

Yah, that's the problem. For some reason, the link to that page
isn't showing up on the 'Gallery' page. The only one I'm seeing is the last
one (Sprawl Sites). It looks like a problem with your nested tables -
I think it's an interaction between the 100%-width <td> and that other
<td> you have in the same <tr>, to start with, and also the fact that you
have a few different tables stuck into the same <td> (not sure if that'll
matter or not, but hey, it might, and what's there now doesn't seem to
work on my version of Netscape).

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4

From:	Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:49:51 +1000

Message no. 9 > Yah, that's the problem. For some reason, the link to that page
>isn't showing up on the 'Gallery' page. The only one I'm seeing is the last
>one (Sprawl Sites). It looks like a problem with your nested tables -
>I think it's an interaction between the 100%-width <td> and that other
><td> you have in the same <tr>, to start with, and also the fact that you
>have a few different tables stuck into the same <td> (not sure if that'll
>matter or not, but hey, it might, and what's there now doesn't seem to
>work on my version of Netscape).

Hmmm... Another Netscapism. Thanks for the pointer to the error (it was
an extra table declaration that shouldn't have been there but was for some
unbeknownest reason), it's fixed now so you can see all of the gallery
entries.

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )

From:	Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:09:25 -0400

Message no. 10 On 13 Oct 98, at 18:16, Patrick Goodman wrote:

> > All in all, using the SR3 generation system she's got 4 points of
> >Active Skills left, spent 5 points too many on Attributes and 5 points
> >too many on Knowledge skills. Apart from that, she's hunkey dorey.
>
> Looking at the scan, I'm inclined to agree somewhat. OTOH, none of my
> NPCs match up with the SR3 character generation system. Mine all start
> somewhere and have advanced. I mean, do you use the chargen system for
> your NPCs?
>
> I dunno, I stopped trying to justify things with the NPC sheets. I just
> know I kinda like her. <g>

Guys, your forgetting one thing. Who says she is a starting
character? I would say that she most definitely is not. Throw in a
bit of Karma, and the numbers work out just fine.

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:23:39 -0500

Message no. 11 From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 9:11 PM

>> Looking at the scan, I'm inclined to agree somewhat. OTOH, none
>> of my NPCs match up with the SR3 character generation system.
>> Mine all start somewhere and have advanced. I mean, do you use
>> the chargen system for your NPCs?
>
>Guys, your forgetting one thing. Who says she is a starting
>character? I would say that she most definitely is not. Throw in a
>bit of Karma, and the numbers work out just fine.

I coulda sworn I said something along this same line.... <g>

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:36:05 +0200

Message no. 12 According to K in the Shadows, at 18:35 on 13 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Which is strange, because I came really close to right on the cost with her.
> I can't recall what priorities I selected though that worked....have to
> rethink this one.

Let's check the priorities listed on the sheet. I want to know now :)

Race: C -- elf. Check.

Attributes: D -- 21 points. Added up, she has 26 points, after subtracting
3 for the elf racial modifiers. Failed.

Active Skills: A -- 50 points. I count 48 active skill points, so this is
a "check" result, technically.

Knowledge Skills: Int 5 gives 25 points. She has 30 points, so another one
failed.

Language Skills: In5 gives 7 points, and that's exactly what has been
spent. Check.

Resources: B -- 400,000Y. That priority is still open, so this one is
legal.

However, to make the character fully legal we'd need to assign B to
attributes (and increase her Intelligence to 6 with the on extra point
this gives us), then let her spend only 20,000Y instead of 20 times that
much...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:36:05 +0200

Message no. 13 According to Sean McCrohan, at 19:39 on 13 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> and also the fact that you have a few different tables stuck into the
> same <td> (not sure if that'll matter or not, but hey, it might, and
> what's there now doesn't seem to work on my version of Netscape).

Tables within tables should be possible, according to HTML 3.2 (and
presumably 4.0) standard. Unfortunately, HTML seems to be like every other
"standard" in the computer industry -- namely, everything but.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:36:05 +0200

Message no. 14 According to Tim Kerby, at 22:09 on 13 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Guys, your forgetting one thing. Who says she is a starting
> character? I would say that she most definitely is not. Throw in a
> bit of Karma, and the numbers work out just fine.

I get the impression she's intended as a starting character because the
flyer looks _exactly_ like the sample characters in SR3, including having
the priorities for attributes, skills, etc. listed.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:36:05 +0200

Message no. 15 According to Patrick Goodman, at 18:16 on 13 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Looking at the scan, I'm inclined to agree somewhat. OTOH, none of my NPCs
> match up with the SR3 character generation system. Mine all start somewhere
> and have advanced. I mean, do you use the chargen system for your NPCs?

The assassin is not an NPC, that's why we're talking about this. All the
sixteen characters in the first color section in SR3 are quick-start
_player_ characters -- the old archetypes under a different name. The
assassin follows the same theme, but doesn't add up.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:14:37 -0400

Message no. 16 Quoting Gurth (gurth@******.NL):
> According to Sean McCrohan, at 19:39 on 13 Oct 98, the word on the street was...
>
> > and also the fact that you have a few different tables stuck into the
> > same <td> (not sure if that'll matter or not, but hey, it might, and
> > what's there now doesn't seem to work on my version of Netscape).
>
> Tables within tables should be possible, according to HTML 3.2 (and
> presumably 4.0) standard. Unfortunately, HTML seems to be like every other
> "standard" in the computer industry -- namely, everything but.

Yah, tables within tables are definitely legal, I'm just not sure
if you can have multiple tables within the same cell of a larger table. I
don't know why you wouldn't be able to (unless the first had a 100% width,
leaving no room for the second), but I've never tried it.

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4

From:	Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:28:20 -0400

Message no. 17 Gurth wrote:

> Tables within tables should be possible, according to HTML 3.2 (and
> presumably 4.0) standard. Unfortunately, HTML seems to be like every other
> "standard" in the computer industry -- namely, everything but.

HTML is standard, it's just that Netscrape and Microsnot keep throwing
in *new* tags and functions that the other can't use, thus forcing
webdesigners to pay attention to two different subsets of standards.

--
Iridios
iridios@*********.com
ICQ UIN:6629224
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489

-------Begin Geek Code Block------
GS d-(++) s+: a- C++ U?@>++ P L E?
W++ N o-- K- w(---) O? M-- V? PS+@
PE Y+ !PGP>++ t++@ 5+ X++@ R++@ tv
b+ DI++ !D G e+@>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
-------End Geek Code Block--------

From:	Brian Wong <rook@*****.INFINEX.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:25:45 -0700

Message no. 18 > > and also the fact that you have a few different tables stuck into the
> > same <td> (not sure if that'll matter or not, but hey, it might, and
> > what's there now doesn't seem to work on my version of Netscape).
>
> Tables within tables should be possible, according to HTML 3.2 (and
> presumably 4.0) standard. Unfortunately, HTML seems to be like every other
> "standard" in the computer industry -- namely, everything but.

I routinely do tables within tables in my code and never have problems.
The code on this page we're discussing looks to be generated by hand. Ussually
these kinds of errors are the result of using a code generator. Hand coders
are more bug proof as they can see their work.

However I do notice that the coder has not used any of the standard
design concepts for laying code down. IE, tabbing in and formatting it neatly
to be easy to read later. So it's possible they missed a mistake due to this.

That's why I always tab in my code according to section and encourage
it in others. Be it C, Java, Javascript, or even a formatting language like
HTML.

Also, 90% of HTMl out there will work in both the main browsers. Tables
as far as I know are mostly the same between the platforms. IE has a few extra
definitions. But nothing that will upset Netscape to my knowledge.

--
Rook ¿Õ ¿ë ±â WebRPG Town Hall Magistrate
townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
__ Super WebRing http://orion.supersoldiers.com/heroes/webring.html
/.)\ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/SHlinks.html Super Hero Links
\(@/ http://www.infinex.com/~rook/SH/ Super Hero RPG Site

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:55:25 -0600

Message no. 19 / > > and also the fact that you have a few different tables stuck into the
/ > > same <td> (not sure if that'll matter or not, but hey, it might, and
/ > > what's there now doesn't seem to work on my version of Netscape).
/ >
/ > Tables within tables should be possible, according to HTML 3.2 (and
/ > presumably 4.0) standard. Unfortunately, HTML seems to be like every other
/ > "standard" in the computer industry -- namely, everything but.
/
/ I routinely do tables within tables in my code and never have problems.
/ The code on this page we're discussing looks to be generated by hand. Ussually
/ these kinds of errors are the result of using a code generator. Hand coders
/ are more bug proof as they can see their work.

<Red Leader>

Stay on topic.. Stay on topic..

</Red Leader>

:)

Have fun,
Play nice,
-David, your friendly neighborhood GridSec Assistant :)
--
dbuehrer@******.carl.org, ShadowRN GridSec: Nice Guy Division
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://coastnet.com/~dvixen/srnintro.html
Other GridSec members: Dvixen <dvixen@********.com>
Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.net>
List Administrator: Adam Jury <adamj@*********.html.com>
List Owner: Mark Imbriaco <mark.imbriaco@*****.com>

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:11:38 +0200

Message no. 20 According to Iridios, at 9:28 on 14 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> HTML is standard, it's just that Netscrape and Microsnot keep throwing
> in *new* tags and functions that the other can't use, thus forcing
> webdesigners to pay attention to two different subsets of standards.

That's what I was referring to.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:11:24 EDT

Message no. 21 In a message dated 10/14/1998 5:38:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> > Guys, your forgetting one thing. Who says she is a starting
> > character? I would say that she most definitely is not. Throw in a
> > bit of Karma, and the numbers work out just fine.
>
> I get the impression she's intended as a starting character because the
> flyer looks _exactly_ like the sample characters in SR3, including having
> the priorities for attributes, skills, etc. listed.
>
Okay Gurth, at this point I have stand up and say, "stop". Just because she
looks the same doesn't mean she is designed the same. Appearance are
incredibly different. AND, something towards what Tim Kerby mentions, is that
the smaller cards that were being handed out at Gencon with the "other
characters" are individuals that the writers of the game have her as having
already defeated. That girl has earned her smile and her good looks. The
differences between what "the Assassin's" stats are and a beginning character
could readily be reversed engineered if you have those 4 cards and you use
similar characters as they have been introduced in previous works. I'll see
if I can find my 4, and go from there.

Oh no, she's not a beginner. That much is obvious, especially upon hindsight.

-K

From:	K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:15:55 EDT

Message no. 22 In a message dated 10/14/1998 5:41:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> The assassin is not an NPC, that's why we're talking about this. All the
> sixteen characters in the first color section in SR3 are quick-start
> _player_ characters -- the old archetypes under a different name. The
> assassin follows the same theme, but doesn't add up.

Ya know, for some reason I found I could agree with the entire wording of this
except for that "the old archetypes" thing. Sure, some of them might be. But
there are more variations now, trying to shed alternative light on things.

-K

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:53:28 +0200

Message no. 23 According to K in the Shadows, at 14:11 on 14 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Okay Gurth, at this point I have stand up and say, "stop". Just because
she
> looks the same doesn't mean she is designed the same. Appearance are
> incredibly different.

In what way?! The whole thing looks _exactly_ like those for the sample
characters, and for one or two minor glitches (nothing more major than
what most of the 1st and 2nd edition archetypes suffered from), she fits
the character creation rules, too...

> AND, something towards what Tim Kerby mentions, is that
> the smaller cards that were being handed out at Gencon with the "other
> characters" are individuals that the writers of the game have her as having
> already defeated.

So? I've defeated lots of characters with my own newly-created characters.
This does not prove anything one way or the other.

> Oh no, she's not a beginner. That much is obvious, especially upon hindsight.

I maintain that if they didn't intend her as a sample character for SR3,
they shouldn't (wouldn't?) have made her look like the ones in the BBB.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Warning! Choking hazard -- small letters.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:08:43 -0400

Message no. 24 On 15 Oct 98, at 11:53, Gurth wrote:

> I maintain that if they didn't intend her as a sample character for SR3,
> they shouldn't (wouldn't?) have made her look like the ones in the BBB.

I think they gave her stats to get people to look at SR3 that
normally are only interested in computer games. Kind of a cross
promotion. I seriously doubt you'll see that character sheet in the
actual game.

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - |"Letter writing is the only
- drekhead@***.net - | device for combining
HTML to: drekhead@********.net | solitude and good company."
ICQ - UIN 2883757 | -Lord Byron

From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:41:09 -0400

Message no. 25 At 09:08 AM 10/15/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On 15 Oct 98, at 11:53, Gurth wrote:
>
>> I maintain that if they didn't intend her as a sample character for SR3,
>> they shouldn't (wouldn't?) have made her look like the ones in the BBB.
>
>I think they gave her stats to get people to look at SR3 that
>normally are only interested in computer games. Kind of a cross
>promotion. I seriously doubt you'll see that character sheet in the
>actual game.

Probably. What was the original story behind it? Something like Mike M.
asking if they could get a screen shot and design a character around it,
purely for promotional purposes.

I don't think it was ever really intended as a true "archetype" such as the
ones in SR3, but you've gotta admit, it's a very effective promotional
flyer for SR players.

So this discussion is rather silly in my opinion. It's a promo, nothing
else. Having seen it, she's cool and might make for a nice NPC, but I
don't think it was supposed to be a true to form and rules SR PC.

She does kinda look like one of those Lara Croft clones though...

Erik J.

who leaves it up to you to decide if a Lara Croft (Tomb Raider) clone is a
good or bad thing...

From:	K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun Assassin Promotional Flyer
Date:	Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:46:24 EDT

Message no. 26 In a message dated 10/15/1998 4:51:58 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> > Oh no, she's not a beginner. That much is obvious, especially upon
> hindsight.
>
> I maintain that if they didn't intend her as a sample character for SR3,
> they shouldn't (wouldn't?) have made her look like the ones in the BBB.
>
That's fine, but I spoke with the artist while at Gencon AND the staff for SR:
Assassin. Yes, she was drawn the same, but that is artistic license taking
effect. And she is NOT intended as a beginning character, at least according
to two of the game programmers (one of whom signed my book, right before Tom
Dowd did, but I can't figure out which one he was ;/

-K

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