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Message no. 1
From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
Subject: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:01:14 +1000
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I've been searching for a good character generator for a few weeks now =
and have found 2 that seemed to be alright. 1 was on Shadowrun Archive =
and was a bit dated, the other was a one that seemed the most up to date =
but crashed all the time. Also had to pay for that one ewwwwwww. I was =
wondering if anyone had/has/knows about a good charactor generator that =
they can either email me or point me towards

P.S. If this message has funny html code, please tell me nicely and i =
shall endeavor to fix it, tah.

I'm Always Here, You Just Don't See Me:)

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<BODY bgColor=#e8e8e8>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Courier New"
size=2>I've been =
searching for a
good character generator for a few weeks now and have found 2 that =
seemed to be
alright. 1 was on Shadowrun Archive and was a bit dated, the other was a =
one
that seemed the most up to date but crashed all the time. Also had to =
pay for
that one ewwwwwww. I was wondering if anyone had/has/knows about a good
charactor generator that they can either email me or point me
towards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Courier New" =
size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>P.S. If this message
has funny =
html code,
please tell me nicely and i shall endeavor to fix it, tah.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Courier New" =
size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face="Courier New"
size=2>I'm Always =
Here, You Just
Don't See Me:)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Message no. 2
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:51:32 -0600
At 11:01 9/4/98 +1000, Chameleon wrote

First off, your mail did come across as HTML. There's an option to turn it
off somewhere under the options menu in Outlook Express (I messed around
with it for about 5 minutes before uninstalling it..:)

>I've been searching for a good character generator for a few >weeks now
and have found 2 that seemed to be alright. 1 was on >Shadowrun Archive and
was a bit dated, the other was a one that >seemed the most up to date but
crashed all the time. Also had to >pay for that one ewwwwwww. I was
wondering if anyone >had/has/knows about a good charactor generator that
they can >either email me or point me towards

The one that is "Dated" is Paolo's SRCG, and he and I are working on an
updated version that will be a Pocket Secretary '98 module. It's getting
closer and closer to being done, but we've come across a fun little bug
that makes loading database fields into a listview dog-slow, which renders
a few modules near useless. As soon as I get that fixed, the beta testers
will get the next beta, and we'll be one step closer to having it
finished.. :)

What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen. Should
there just be just an option button to choose which system to use?

-Adam J

-
< TSS Productions down temporarily - New URL Soon! / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 3
From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:55:58 +1000
>What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen. Should
>there just be just an option button to choose which system to use?
>
>-Adam J


<snip sig and stuff about new version coming out>

Cool, new version, the one i was just using just crashed, again:)

Yeah, there should be an option button to choose.

P.S. Hope this message doesn't have all the funky html crap, for some reason
OE isn't saving my settings when i reboot, and im even shutting down
first!!!:(
Message no. 4
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:04:23 -0400
On 3 Sep 98, at 19:51, Adam J wrote:

> What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen. Should
> there just be just an option button to choose which system to use?

Yes. And the ability to override the values manually, should someone
want to devise a new system of some kind.

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 5
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:03:03 +1000
> What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen.
> Should
> there just be just an option button to choose which system to use?
>
> -Adam J
>
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Errr...sorry.

I'm sure you get the idea.

Doc'
Message no. 6
From: "Mark C. Farrington" <alareth@*****.DWEBS.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:04:56 -0400
>What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen. Should
>there just be just an option button to choose which system to use?


A button to chose between systems is an excellent idea

Alareth - Acolyte of the First Church of the Squooshy Ball
Investigator, Shadowrun Webring Internal Affairs
The Shiny Happy Gaming Group - http://www.dwebs.net/~alareth
ICQ UIN - 11468823
Message no. 7
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:12:08 -0600
At 22:04 9/3/98 -0400, Tim Kerby wrote

>> What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen. Should
>> there just be just an option button to choose which system to use?
>
>Yes. And the ability to override the values manually, should someone
>want to devise a new system of some kind.

A "Free Generation" mode is the easiest thing to do :-)

Also expected is a "X" points, instead of 100, for the point system.

-Adam
-
< TSS Productions down temporarily - New URL Soon! / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 8
From: Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:46:45 -0400
Adam J wrote:

> What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen. Should
> there just be just an option button to choose which system to use?

An option button (or menu) to choose between SR2, SR2C, or SR3 would
be nice. Maybe certain options can be further toggled such as
Edges/Flaws, extra points (in the point system), and etc.


<snip sig>

--"Any science, sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from
magic."
--Arthur C. Clarke

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
ICQ UIN:6629224
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489
http://members.theglobe.com/Iridios

-------Begin Geek Code Block------
GS d-(++) s+: a- C++ U?@>++ P L E?
W++ N o-- K- w(---) O? M-- V? PS+@
PE Y+ !PGP>++ t++@ 5+ X++@ R++@ tv
b+ DI++ !D G e+@>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
-------End Geek Code Block--------
Message no. 9
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:16:30 -0400
<SNIP Generator Info>
>What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the
>chargen. Should there just be just an option button to choose
>which system to use?
Personally I like each system for a different reason, and I think
it will be awhile before everyone plays SR3 completely, so i'd
love to see an options button for all three.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
Message no. 10
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:26:39 -0400
On 3 Sep 98, at 20:12, Adam J wrote:

> At 22:04 9/3/98 -0400, Tim Kerby wrote
>
> >> What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen.
> >> Should there just be just an option button to choose which system to
> >> use?
> >
> >Yes. And the ability to override the values manually, should someone want
> >to devise a new system of some kind.
>
> A "Free Generation" mode is the easiest thing to do :-)
>
> Also expected is a "X" points, instead of 100, for the point system.

I like all of the above. Cool! Can't wait to see it.

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 11
From: Scott Harrison <Scott_Harrison@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:11:06 -0400
Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM> wrote:
> <SNIP Generator Info>
> >What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the
> >chargen. Should there just be just an option button to choose
> >which system to use?
> Personally I like each system for a different reason, and I think
> it will be awhile before everyone plays SR3 completely, so i'd
> love to see an options button for all three.

I am designing the requirements for a character generator as part of a suite of
tools for supporting ShadowRun gaming on a computer. Part of my design relies on loadable
modules. I imagine each book will be a loadable module, or perhaps a book will be
comprised of a number of loadable modules.

What I would like to know is: Do game masters want the ability to selectively
include some rules from a book but not all of them?

For customization of play, it should be pretty easy for a game master to allow and
disallow specific weapons, spells, species, etc. In fact, it should be pretty easy for
the game master to create new versions of these things.

However, it will be harder for game masters to vary the way combat runs or the way
dice pools are used. Is there a need for game masters to do this? If so, how should it
be done? For example, it would be easier to have the game master be able to add a number
to the threat rating of all the enemy, but it would be difficlut (or impossible) for the
game master to say that no one is allowed to use a combat pool.

Basically, my concept is to have a World which represents the rules that are used
by a game master. Of course, there are many Worlds. In a World, one has a list of all
the Books that are used (or more specifically, a list of all the Rules from the Books that
are used). Then there all the modifications to the rules (like disallowing a couple of
spells from the normal rules). There are also custom sets of rules that can be used (not
necessarily from an SR book). The problem with these custom sets of rules is they need to
be coded. Will game masters be able / want to code these rules?

Comments?

--Scott
Message no. 12
From: Jane Foster <immortal_elf@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:25:22 PDT
There are also custom sets of rules that can be used (not necessarily
from an SR book). The problem with these custom sets of rules is they
need to be coded. Will game masters be able / want to code these rules?
>
> Comments?
>
>--Scott
>
Absoulutely. If you make it expandable where the GM's can write their
own rules, that would take into account the fact that many GM's use
house rules for their group. Instead of books, which implies an all or
nothing acceptance of the content, a rule-by-rule module system might
work best.

Second, it might be nice to have a personalized "startup" menu of
modules, so you don't have to load the modules manually everytime you
start the program (three generators do this that I know of, and it's a
minor annoyance)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:40:18 +0200
Jane Foster said on 17:25/4 Sep 98,...

> There are also custom sets of rules that can be used (not necessarily
> from an SR book). The problem with these custom sets of rules is they
> need to be coded. Will game masters be able / want to code these rules?

I doubt it's feasible to allow people to code their own chargen system...
It'd most likely require Paolo and Adam to write a complete interpreter in
Visual Basic, and the players to learn the language... You're quicker off
writing a character generator yourself in a true programming language.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:01:14 -0600
At 13:40 9/5/98 +0200, Gurth wrote

>> There are also custom sets of rules that can be used (not necessarily
>> from an SR book). The problem with these custom sets of rules is they
>> need to be coded. Will game masters be able / want to code these rules?
>
>I doubt it's feasible to allow people to code their own chargen system...
>It'd most likely require Paolo and Adam to write a complete interpreter in
>Visual Basic, and the players to learn the language... You're quicker off
>writing a character generator yourself in a true programming language.

Right. If you have some sort of house rules that you would like
integrated, email me -privately- and explain them, and I'll see about
nagging Paolo to work on them. It's not inconceivable that we could have a
pile of optional rules available, but adding them on the fly would mean
that we would have to add a scripting language to the SRCG, and I don't
know if any of you know how much they cost, but any decent one is a pretty
penny that we simply don't have.

So, as I said, if you would like house rules integrated, please do email me
privately and explain them :)

-Adam
-
< TSS Productions down temporarily - New URL Soon! / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 15
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:31:29 PDT
>From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
>Subject: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)

>I've been searching for a good character generator for a few weeks now
=
>and have found 2 that seemed to be alright. 1 was on Shadowrun Archive
=
>and was a bit dated, the other was a one that seemed the most up to
date =
>but crashed all the time. Also had to pay for that one ewwwwwww. I was
=
>wondering if anyone had/has/knows about a good charactor generator that
=
>they can either email me or point me towards

Actually, I'm debating on writing one stickly for SR3 rules.. If
there's enough interest, that is.. I used both th above mentioned
programs.. reat, but as you said, one was out of date, and well, th
other had several problms, includin th authors DIRE need to buy a copy
of Installshield.. ;-P


---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 16
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:39:10 PDT
>From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
>Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
>
>The one that is "Dated" is Paolo's SRCG, and he and I are working on an
>updated version that will be a Pocket Secretary '98 module.

A 'Pocket Secretary'? Ok, the still-the-newbie poses the question
once again..

>It's getting
>closer and closer to being done, but we've come across a fun little bug
>that makes loading database fields into a listview dog-slow, which
renders
>a few modules near useless. As soon as I get that fixed, the beta
testers
>will get the next beta, and we'll be one step closer to having it
>finished.. :)

May I be so bold as to add myself to that list? I'm a software
developer as a living, so I may be able to lend a bit of a hand.. ;-P

>What's everyones thoughts on SR2 vs SR2Comp vs SR3 in the chargen.
Should
>there just be just an option button to choose which system to use?

Option... Some may wish to still use th old rules, so hence.. ;-P



---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 17
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:53:24 -0600
At 13:39 9/5/98 -0700, Thomas Charron wrote

>>The one that is "Dated" is Paolo's SRCG, and he and I are working on an
>>updated version that will be a Pocket Secretary '98 module.
>
> A 'Pocket Secretary'? Ok, the still-the-newbie poses the question
>once again..

The Pocket Secretary '98 site is down at the moment -- it will be back up
when the Archive and TSS Productions go back online. The current version
is 1.2, and is more than a little buggy, so I pulled it off my site about a
month back. We're working on 1.5 at the moment, and it's more modular;
basically you install the shell, and then can download and install
individual modules, such as a dice roller, a cyberdeck generator, cyberware
catalog, the character generator, etc.

>>It's getting
>>closer and closer to being done, but we've come across a fun little bug
>>that makes loading database fields into a listview dog-slow, which
>renders
>>a few modules near useless. As soon as I get that fixed, the beta
>testers
>>will get the next beta, and we'll be one step closer to having it
>>finished.. :)
>
> May I be so bold as to add myself to that list? I'm a software
>developer as a living, so I may be able to lend a bit of a hand.. ;-P

Well, we actually have more beta testers than I know what to do with. I'm
not a big fan of distributing beta's anyways, because when I screw up, I do
it -real- good.. ;)

-Adam
-
< TSS Productions down temporarily - New URL Soon! / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 18
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:06:36 PDT
>From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
>Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
>Right. If you have some sort of house rules that you would like
>integrated, email me -privately- and explain them, and I'll see about
>nagging Paolo to work on them. It's not inconceivable that we could
have a
>pile of optional rules available, but adding them on the fly would mean
>that we would have to add a scripting language to the SRCG, and I don't
>know if any of you know how much they cost, but any decent one is a
pretty
>penny that we simply don't have.

Curiouse, what lanuage are you using, VB?



---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 19
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:15:32 -0600
At 14:06 9/5/98 -0700, Thomas Charron wrote

Regarding the new SRCG and PS '98..

> Curiouse, what lanuage are you using, VB?

Yes. VB5 with Service Pack 3 -- no plans to go to SP4, err.. I mean VB6 ;-)

-Adam J
Message no. 20
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:26:51 PDT
>From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
>Well, we actually have more beta testers than I know what to do with.
I'm
>not a big fan of distributing beta's anyways, because when I screw up,
I do
>it -real- good.. ;)

I don't suppose there will be a Windows CE release? If not, I'd like
to put myself forward to assist.. I'd be frigen WONDERFULL to run
somethin like this on my little Palm PC.. GOOD BY DICEBAG!!!



---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 21
From: Anders Swenson <anders@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:36:03 -0700
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Thomas Charron wrote: Actually, I'm debating on writing one stickly for SR3
rules.. If

> there's enough interest, that is.. I used both th above mentioned
> programs.. reat, but as you said, one was out of date, and well, th
> other had several problms, includin th authors DIRE need to buy a copy
> of Installshield.. ;-P
>

Please! You go for it! --Programmingly Challenged lame@******.lost

>
>
>
> ---
> Thomas Charron
> thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
> tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..
>
> "Lemme get this strait, your married with
> 2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
> to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
> believe??"
>
> - Buddy at work..
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

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Message no. 22
From: "K. Adams" <kadams@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:27:21 -0400
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I should probably add myself to the list of people working on some form =
of SRun character generator type utility.

My two cents on the whole deal is that first and foremost, there should =
be an option to generate just the standard character (from the book). =
Add to that, a threat rating that ups stats across the board for easy =
creation of higher powered characters. After that an option to tweak a =
character before finalizing his stats.

I found the PS to be and damned impressive program but I would've liked =
to see the above functionality.

-K-

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Charron [SMTP:thomascharron@*******.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 4:31 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)

>From: Chameleon <cham@***.BIGPOND.NET.AU>
>Subject: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)

>I've been searching for a good character generator for a few weeks now
=
>and have found 2 that seemed to be alright. 1 was on Shadowrun Archive
=
>and was a bit dated, the other was a one that seemed the most up to
date =
>but crashed all the time. Also had to pay for that one ewwwwwww. I was
=
>wondering if anyone had/has/knows about a good charactor generator that
=
>they can either email me or point me towards

Actually, I'm debating on writing one stickly for SR3 rules.. If
there's enough interest, that is.. I used both th above mentioned
programs.. reat, but as you said, one was out of date, and well, th
other had several problms, includin th authors DIRE need to buy a copy
of Installshield.. ;-P


---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Message no. 23
From: Kaptiv Audienz <G8TWAY@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:40:18 EDT
In a message dated 9/6/1998 5:49:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
kadams@***.NET writes:

> I found the PS to be and damned impressive program but I would've liked to
> see the above functionality.
>
> -K-

Are you the 'K' person who thought up the Got Milk commercial idea that Mr.
Hall re-presented some days ago? If so, I applaud your imagination. A good
image that did produce.
Message no. 24
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 08:03:34 -0600
At 18:27 9/6/98 -0400, K. Adams wrote

<GridSec>
First of all, you're sending an attachment, which is a no-no, and please
snip irrelevant text and place your reply Under what you quoted. If you
have any questions please read the FAQ at http://www.coastnet.com/~dvixen
or email me in private. Thanks!
</GridSec>

>My two cents on the whole deal is that first and foremost, there should be
an >option to generate just the standard character (from the book). Add to
that, a >threat rating that ups stats across the board for easy creation of
higher >powered characters. After that an option to tweak a character
before >finalizing his stats.

Simple enough -- the new SRCG will have some sort of "Free" or "Override
limits" mode. Just generate the character as normal, then slip it into one
of those modes, and raise stats as skills as you see fit.. :)

I don't see a way to raise stats across the board all that useful, because
that would create a "level" like effect with SRCG characters created that
way..

-Adam J
-
< TSS Productions down temporarily - New URL Soon! / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< "Raven loves me! He just bought me a new rubber ducky!" - Lodi >
< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 25
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:31:16 -0500
----------
> From: Kaptiv Audienz <G8TWAY@***.COM>
>
> In a message dated 9/6/1998 5:49:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> kadams@***.NET writes:
>
> > I found the PS to be and damned impressive program but I would've
liked to
> > see the above functionality.
> >
> > -K-
>
> Are you the 'K' person who thought up the Got Milk commercial idea that
Mr.
> Hall re-presented some days ago? If so, I applaud your imagination. A
good
> image that did produce.

No, he's not (unless K has decided to make me look like an idiot by
getting a new address)

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and hands,
and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how to expand
the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 26
From: "K. Adams" <kadams@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:44:18 -0400
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No unfortunately :)

-K-

-----Original Message-----
From: Kaptiv Audienz [SMTP:G8TWAY@***.COM]
Sent: Monday, September 07, 1998 1:40 AM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)

In a message dated 9/6/1998 5:49:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
kadams@***.NET writes:

> I found the PS to be and damned impressive program but I would've liked to
> see the above functionality.
>
> -K-

Are you the 'K' person who thought up the Got Milk commercial idea that Mr.
Hall re-presented some days ago? If so, I applaud your imagination. A good
image that did produce.

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Message no. 27
From: "K. Adams" <kadams@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:54:54 -0400
Simple enough -- the new SRCG will have some sort of "Free" or "Override
limits" mode. Just generate the character as normal, then slip it into one
of those modes, and raise stats as skills as you see fit.. :)

Actually I'm thinking more along the lines of something to generate fast
encounters. As in a couple of gang members and a Shamen or two. without
having to go through a whole lot.

I don't see a way to raise stats across the board all that useful, because
that would create a "level" like effect with SRCG characters created that
way..

True for player characters but that not my main concern.

-K-

Let me know if this posting has an attachment I made some changes but don't
know if it'll help.


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end
Message no. 28
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:30:00 EDT
In a message dated 9/7/98 7:24:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kadams@***.NET
writes:

>
> Let me know if this posting has an attachment I made some changes but don't
> know if it'll help.
>
yes it does.
Message no. 29
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:56:34 -0400
Gurth wrote:
> > There are also custom sets of rules that can be used (not necessarily
> > from an SR book). The problem with these custom sets of rules is they
> > need to be coded. Will game masters be able / want to code these rules?
>
> I doubt it's feasible to allow people to code their own chargen system...
> It'd most likely require Paolo and Adam to write a complete interpreter in
> Visual Basic, and the players to learn the language... You're quicker off
> writing a character generator yourself in a true programming language.
>
Well, it worked for The Shop... ;-)

The *real* benefit of writing an interpreter is that it's much easier
for the developer to fix small problems - no recompile required, just
edit a file.

The real problem with an interpreted character generator is that there
are a lot of interdependencies. This requires an increasingly complex
language - the R2 rules for example usually only have the dependencies
of "prerequisite" or "incompatible", so all you need is a conditional
evaluation. With cyberware, for example, you've got to deal with stuff
like the cybereye discount, grades and so forth in addition to the
prerequisites and incompatibilities.

James Ojaste
Message no. 30
From: Scott Harrison <Scott_Harrison@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:21:05 -0400
"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA> wrote:
> Gurth wrote:
> > > There are also custom sets of rules that can be used (not necessarily
> > > from an SR book). The problem with these custom sets of rules is they
> > > need to be coded. Will game masters be able / want to code these rules?
> >
> > I doubt it's feasible to allow people to code their own chargen system...
> > It'd most likely require Paolo and Adam to write a complete interpreter in
> > Visual Basic, and the players to learn the language... You're quicker off
> > writing a character generator yourself in a true programming language.
> >
> Well, it worked for The Shop... ;-)
>
> The *real* benefit of writing an interpreter is that it's much easier
> for the developer to fix small problems - no recompile required, just
> edit a file.
>
> The real problem with an interpreted character generator is that there
> are a lot of interdependencies. This requires an increasingly complex
> language - the R2 rules for example usually only have the dependencies
> of "prerequisite" or "incompatible", so all you need is a
conditional
> evaluation. With cyberware, for example, you've got to deal with stuff
> like the cybereye discount, grades and so forth in addition to the
> prerequisites and incompatibilities.
>
> James Ojaste
>

The system I am creating relies on "bundles" of executable code. They
are programmed in a real language, compiled up, and loaded by the tools (character
generator, combat arena, etc.). Unfortunately, I will not be providing a scripting
language ability. However, I know some add on products that would allow Tcl, Perl and
Python to be used. This I will not worry about. What I am asking is whether I should
provide the public with the APIs for my "bundles" so the public can create their
own rules. And when I mean rules, I mean hard things like changing the way combat works
or changing the way armor degredation happens. I do not mean simple things like changing
the cost of a weapon or the drain of a spell. These can be customized by fiddling with a
few numbers.

--Scott
Message no. 31
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:49:44 -0400
Scott Harrison wrote:
> > > I doubt it's feasible to allow people to code their own chargen
> system...
> > > It'd most likely require Paolo and Adam to write a complete
> interpreter in
> > > Visual Basic, and the players to learn the language... You're quicker
> off
> > > writing a character generator yourself in a true programming language.
> > >
> > Well, it worked for The Shop... ;-)
> >
> > The *real* benefit of writing an interpreter is that it's much easier
> > for the developer to fix small problems - no recompile required, just
> > edit a file.
[snip]
> The system I am creating relies on "bundles" of executable code.
> They are programmed in a real language, compiled up, and loaded by the
> tools (character generator, combat arena,
>
I have an inherent dislike for have to compile stuff - it means you
need to have a compiler handy, and it usually isn't really necessary
unless you're writing time-critical code. Interpreted stuff is much
easier to handle on the fly, makes the system easier to extend and
easier to debug. YMMV, of course...

> etc.). Unfortunately, I will not be providing a scripting language
> ability. However, I know some add on products that would allow Tcl, Perl
> and Python to be used. This I will not worry about.
>
Eh. None of those languages are really appropriate to the task, for
the most part - they are *very* general languages and you wouldn't want
to allow (for example) the file-handling/networking abilities of perl.

> What I am asking is whether I should provide the public with the APIs for
> my "bundles" so the public can create their own rules. And when I mean
> rules, I mean hard things like changing the way combat works or changing
> the way armor degredation happens. I do not mean simple things like
> changing the cost of a weapon or the drain of a spell. These can be
> customized by fiddling with a few numbers.
>
House rules cover the whole range of what you can imagine - without a
full-fledged language behind it, you won't be able to support them all.
Even *with* a full-fledged language, you probably won't be able to
support them all.

In short, I've found that when you're designing/building a program, you
can't make it too flexible. So, yes - expose the API by all means.
Make it as easy to use as you can (which will make building the standard
stuff much easier as well).

James Ojaste
Message no. 32
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:50:40 -0400
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> Scott Harrison wrote:
>
> > etc.). Unfortunately, I will not be providing a scripting language
> > ability. However, I know some add on products that would allow Tcl, Perl
> > and Python to be used. This I will not worry about.
> >
> Eh. None of those languages are really appropriate to the task, for
> the most part - they are *very* general languages and you wouldn't want
> to allow (for example) the file-handling/networking abilities of perl.

Huh? Perl is an *ideal* language for loose logical concepts like
character generation! You could easily read rules and statistics in from
a file, crunch them up various ways, and spit them back out to another
file. I wrote the VR 2.0 Host Generator (for which Paolo later included
an HTML interface on the Archive) in Perl, and it took me a grand total of
about three hours.

"Networking abilities," unlike text processing, aren't intrinsic to the
language itself -- they're extensions that have been added by various
third parties -- but I can't think of a reason why someone writing a
GM'ing tool wouldn't want to "allow" them.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 33
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:31:31 -0400
Steve Eley wrote:
> > > etc.). Unfortunately, I will not be providing a scripting language
> > > ability. However, I know some add on products that would allow Tcl,
> Perl
> > > and Python to be used. This I will not worry about.
> > >
> > Eh. None of those languages are really appropriate to the task, for
> > the most part - they are *very* general languages and you wouldn't want
> > to allow (for example) the file-handling/networking abilities of perl.
>
> Huh? Perl is an *ideal* language for loose logical concepts like
> character generation! You could easily read rules and statistics in from
>
1) Character generation isn't *that* loose. It can still be resolved
in terms of dependencies, but now you've got conditional containers and
other such concepts to deal with. It becomes worthwhile to start
expressing stuff as hierarchical objects. "The shotgun's connected to
the - cyberarm. The cyberarm's connected to the - cybertorso." ;-)

2) It may be an ideal language, but the amount of work it'd take to
separate the language from the implementation would be massive - you
really don't need any networking stuff, for example, and you'd probably
want serious restrictions on any file access.

> a file, crunch them up various ways, and spit them back out to another
> file. I wrote the VR 2.0 Host Generator (for which Paolo later included
> an HTML interface on the Archive) in Perl, and it took me a grand total of
> about three hours.
>
Well, writing The Shop took me longer, but it's essentially a flexible
interpreter with late binding and loose typing. The most complex stuff
it has to handle is limited-use prerequisites ("the level of x can't
exceed half the level of y" stuff). It has some basic scoping stuff,
but it's not terribly general. It won't handle random Objects *or*
hierarchies very well.

> "Networking abilities," unlike text processing, aren't intrinsic to the
> language itself -- they're extensions that have been added by various
> third parties -- but I can't think of a reason why someone writing a
> GM'ing tool wouldn't want to "allow" them.
>
1) Security.
2) Higher complexity -> more bugs (both in the code base and in interpreted
code).
3) Bloat.
4) Current implementation requires NT. :-P

That should cover it. :-)

James Ojaste
Message no. 34
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:56:36 -0400
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
>
> Steve Eley wrote:
> >
> > Huh? Perl is an *ideal* language for loose logical concepts like
> > character generation! You could easily read rules and statistics
in from
> >
> 1) Character generation isn't *that* loose. It can still be resolved
> in terms of dependencies, but now you've got conditional containers
and
> other such concepts to deal with. It becomes worthwhile to start
> expressing stuff as hierarchical objects. "The shotgun's connected to
> the - cyberarm. The cyberarm's connected to the - cybertorso." ;-)

Did we mention that Perl 5 supports object classes?


> 2) It may be an ideal language, but the amount of work it'd take to
> separate the language from the implementation would be massive - you
> really don't need any networking stuff, for example, and you'd
probably
> want serious restrictions on any file access.

I don't understand what you mean by "separate the language from the
implementation." So you don't need any networking stuff -- don't write
any in your code! And forgetting for a moment that Perl has some of the
strongest language support for file security: from whom would you want to
restrict access? Your players? Okay, then don't let them use your
computer. (Or your Unix account, if you're using Perl where it's supposed
to be used. And with this guy talking about Tcl, Python, etc., it sounds
to *me* like he's putting together a Unix app...)

While it's easy to think of logical reasons why you wouldn't use Perl
for certain complex tasks, "the language does too much other stuff"
isn't one of them.


> Well, writing The Shop took me longer, but it's essentially a flexible
> interpreter with late binding and loose typing. The most complex
stuff
> it has to handle is limited-use prerequisites ("the level of x can't
> exceed half the level of y" stuff). It has some basic scoping stuff,
> but it's not terribly general. It won't handle random Objects *or*
> hierarchies very well.

Sounds spiffy. What language did you write it in? (And, as a tangent
question, is there any place from which I can download it, since the
Archive is on hiatus?)


> > "Networking abilities," unlike text processing, aren't intrinsic
to the
> > language itself -- they're extensions that have been added by
various
> > third parties -- but I can't think of a reason why someone writing a
> > GM'ing tool wouldn't want to "allow" them.
> >
> 1) Security.

From whom? For what? As a programmer, you *must* be aware that a program
won't do client/server operations, or otherwise take advantage of a
network, unless someone writes code in the program that does this. So
what are the security needs? If I write a character generator on my
machine, and I choose to do it in Perl, what "security" risks have I just
created by my choice of language?


> 2) Higher complexity -> more bugs (both in the code base and in
interpreted
> code).

The code base of Perl is fairly stable. You're not likely to run into
any bugs doing simple file-crunching operations. As for interpreted
code, well, isn't it the job of the programmer to eliminate bugs in
his code? How would Perl make your code more bug-prone than any other
language?


> 3) Bloat.

Perl is an interpreted language. Used in a "pure" context, there are
no compiled executables, therefore no bloat. Programs are exactly as
large as the lines of code you put in them.


> 4) Current implementation requires NT. :-P

*sigh* Microsoft isn't winning the market by technology; it's winning by
making otherwise-intelligent people forget that any other OS ever
existed.

Perl was developed for Unix. It's been ported to almost every platform in
existence, but in its basic purpose it's still a Unix language. It's not
far from the forefront of the Linux movement. I don't know what the
issues are in Windows ports of it, but if the "current implementation"
requires NT, you could always use an older version. We're talking about
doing character generation and similar basic computations; *not* running
an enterprise with it.


> That should cover it. :-)

The criticisms you've offered above don't make much sense in the context
of Scott Harrison's development question. It sounds to me like you either
don't know that much about Perl, or you just don't like it. In either
case, it would've been much simpler if you'd just said so. >8->

Oh, and in case I didn't say it earlier: Scott, I think it'd be a GREAT
idea to publish those APIs. Good luck with your application, and keep
telling us more about it! (But please put line breaks in your
messages...)


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 35
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:28:46 -0400
Steve Eley wrote:
> > > Huh? Perl is an *ideal* language for loose logical concepts like
> > > character generation! You could easily read rules and statistics
> in from
> > >
> > 1) Character generation isn't *that* loose. It can still be resolved
> > in terms of dependencies, but now you've got conditional containers
> and
> > other such concepts to deal with. It becomes worthwhile to start
> > expressing stuff as hierarchical objects. "The shotgun's connected to
> > the - cyberarm. The cyberarm's connected to the - cybertorso." ;-)
>
> Did we mention that Perl 5 supports object classes?
>
*shrug* Haven't played around with Perl5 much - mostly v4. I don't
need to use perl very often... :-)

> > 2) It may be an ideal language, but the amount of work it'd take to
> > separate the language from the implementation would be massive - you
> > really don't need any networking stuff, for example, and you'd
> probably
> > want serious restrictions on any file access.
>
> I don't understand what you mean by "separate the language from the
> implementation." So you don't need any networking stuff -- don't write
> any in your code! And forgetting for a moment that Perl has some of the
>
OK, we're on different wavelengths here. What are you going to use to
interpret the Perl code? The Perl interpreter would be the obvious
choice. That's the implementation. I could, if I were totally insane,
write my *own* implementation of perl that would run the same perl code
with the same results. So there's perl the language and the perl
executable/implementation.

> strongest language support for file security: from whom would you want to
> restrict access? Your players? Okay, then don't let them use your
>
Not the players, anybody who's going to be writing code for the thing.
A user should be able to download a net.book of cool toys and the
associated CharGen (TM) module without worrying about what's going to
happen when he plugs that module in to his system. It shouldn't be
able to do anything nasty.

> computer. (Or your Unix account, if you're using Perl where it's supposed
> to be used. And with this guy talking about Tcl, Python, etc., it sounds
> to *me* like he's putting together a Unix app...)
>
I assumed a W95 environment, as that's what most people still use. A
unix version would be great, admittedly.

> While it's easy to think of logical reasons why you wouldn't use Perl
> for certain complex tasks, "the language does too much other stuff"
> isn't one of them.
>
The perl language itself is reasonably complex, but that's not what I'm
complaining about - I'm complaining about the implementation. Sorta
like comparing the C language to the C libraries or to the MFC. If
you're going to use C code to handle conditionals etc, are you going to
include the MFC? *I* wouldn't.

> > Well, writing The Shop took me longer, but it's essentially a flexible
> > interpreter with late binding and loose typing. The most complex
> stuff
> > it has to handle is limited-use prerequisites ("the level of x can't
> > exceed half the level of y" stuff). It has some basic scoping stuff,
> > but it's not terribly general. It won't handle random Objects *or*
> > hierarchies very well.
>
> Sounds spiffy. What language did you write it in? (And, as a tangent
> question, is there any place from which I can download it, since the
> Archive is on hiatus?)
>
*mumble* Hmm? Oh. VB4. I wanted quick results, and VB handled most
of the late binding and stuff with just a bit of tweaking.
You can get The Shop (along with source) from:
http://ojaste.ml.org/~ojastej/SRII/

> > > "Networking abilities," unlike text processing, aren't intrinsic
> to the
> > > language itself -- they're extensions that have been added by
> various
> > > third parties -- but I can't think of a reason why someone writing a
> > > GM'ing tool wouldn't want to "allow" them.
> > >
> > 1) Security.
>
> From whom? For what? As a programmer, you *must* be aware that a program
> won't do client/server operations, or otherwise take advantage of a
> network, unless someone writes code in the program that does this. So
> what are the security needs? If I write a character generator on my
> machine, and I choose to do it in Perl, what "security" risks have I just
> created by my choice of language?
>
I'm not talking about the root language, I'm talking about the
interpreted stuff for handling cyber & gear (in which new modules will
presumably be released as new cyber/gear books are released). It's
a crime akin to releasing something like ActiveX on the unsuspecting
public. OK, maybe not *that* bad. ;-)

> > 2) Higher complexity -> more bugs (both in the code base and in
> interpreted
> > code).
>
> The code base of Perl is fairly stable. You're not likely to run into
> any bugs doing simple file-crunching operations. As for interpreted
> code, well, isn't it the job of the programmer to eliminate bugs in
> his code? How would Perl make your code more bug-prone than any other
> language?
>
Because you have to interface the perl with your internal stuff. If
you require the gear stuff to code in your native data types, the
interface becomes cleaner, but the gear code becomes more bug prone.
It's a tradeoff.

> > 3) Bloat.
>
> Perl is an interpreted language. Used in a "pure" context, there are
> no compiled executables, therefore no bloat. Programs are exactly as
> large as the lines of code you put in them.
>
But you need something to interpret the perl. If you don't have perl
installed (windows boxes), you've got to look forward to installing a
reasonably large package...

> > 4) Current implementation requires NT. :-P
>
> *sigh* Microsoft isn't winning the market by technology; it's winning by
> making otherwise-intelligent people forget that any other OS ever
> existed.
>
No, they're winning by convincing people that they have the best
technology and best support. Please don't take me for a windows-lover -
I use it at work and for games, but that's it. I've run linux since
pre-1.0 days and have a server up on the net. I read Slashdot
religiously. I *do* recognize, however, that most gamers are going to
be running windows and the only thing less useful than a buggy app is
one that won't run at all.

> Perl was developed for Unix. It's been ported to almost every platform in
> existence, but in its basic purpose it's still a Unix language. It's not
> far from the forefront of the Linux movement. I don't know what the
> issues are in Windows ports of it, but if the "current implementation"
> requires NT, you could always use an older version. We're talking about
> doing character generation and similar basic computations; *not* running
> an enterprise with it.
>
Heh. Only NT has *any* version of perl ported to it - I think it's
still stuck in 4.01 or something. NT passes the basic Posix compliance
stuff (barely, and only because the spec is too loose).

> > That should cover it. :-)
>
> The criticisms you've offered above don't make much sense in the context
> of Scott Harrison's development question. It sounds to me like you either
> don't know that much about Perl, or you just don't like it. In either
> case, it would've been much simpler if you'd just said so. >8->
>
Perl is very good at what it does, but I think it's overkill in this
case. Why not go with something like lisp (which has at least as big
a following as perl)? I'm not really a lisp fan, but the separation
between language and implementation seems cleaner...

Ah well.

James Ojaste
Message no. 36
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:27:33 -0400
Gentlemen,

This topic is no longer relevant to the list. Please take it private,
or bring it back on topic. Thanks.

--


=================================================================
-Tim Kerby- drekhead@***.net -* ShadowRN GridSec *-
Read the list FAQ - http://www.coastnet.com/~dvixen/srnintro.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Questions? Feel free to contact me, or any of the other
GridSec Volunteers: David Beuhrer <dbuehrer@******.carl.org>,
Gurth <gurth@******.nl>, Dvixen <dvixen@********.com>,
or the List Admin, Adam Jury <fro@***.ab.ca>
Message no. 37
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:09:55 PDT
>From: Scott Harrison <Scott_Harrison@*****.COM>
>Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generator(s) -Reply

>>Python to be used. This I will not worry about. What I am asking
>> is whether I should provide the public with the APIs for my
>> "bundles" so the public can create their own rules. And when I
>> mean rules, I mean hard things like changing the way combat works
>> or changing the way armor degredation happens. I do not mean
>>simple things like changing the cost of a weapon or the drain of a
>> spell. These can be customized by fiddling with a few numbers.

I'd say yes.. It would seem to me that by taking this approach,
updating to new rule sets, oroptional ones,would be a WHOLE lot easier..
In addition, one could change individual rule sets as they apply..


---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


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Message no. 38
From: Andrew Benn <abenn@*****.NET>
Subject: Shadowrun Character Generators
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:53:16 -0000
Hi,

Does any one know where I can get my hands on a Character Generator for
Shadowrun?

I'm waiting for the next release of SRCG but I just wanted to know if there
were any others out there.

For some reason I like collecting them.

Don't know why.

Cheers

-EdgeWalker

"When you are outnumbered, and the situation is hopeless, you have no
option - you must attack."

abenn@*****.net
Message no. 39
From: Andrew Benn <abenn@*****.NET>
Subject: Shadowrun Character Generators
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:38:18 -0000
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE17EA.5E4C5700
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello, Does any one know where I can get my hands on a character generator
for Shadowrun?

I am currently waiting for the latest version of SRCG to be released but
would like to look at anything else that might be floating around out there

Cheers

Edge Walker

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE17EA.5E4C5700
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content='"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=GENERATOR>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=Content-Type></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=630303520-24111998><FONT size=2>Hello, Does
any one =
know where
I can get my hands on a character generator for =
Shadowrun?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=630303520-24111998><FONT size=2>I am
currently =
waiting for the
latest version of SRCG to be released but would like to look at anything =
else
that might be floating around out there</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=630303520-24111998><FONT size=2>Cheers =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=630303520-24111998><FONT size=2>Edge
Walker</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE17EA.5E4C5700--
Message no. 40
From: Cernunnos Morrigu <cmorrigu@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Character Generators
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:16:35 -0500
On 11/24/98, at 8:38 PM, Andrew Benn wrote:

>Hello, Does any one know where I can get my hands on a character generator
>for Shadowrun?

I believe I have a version or two on my site



Back to biz,
-CM
---
Cernunnos Morrigu | "Summer, check that door!"
cmorrigu@********.net | **BOOM**
http://members.xoom.com/cmorrigu/sr/ | "Ok, check the next one, too."
Message no. 41
From: EdgeWalker EdgeWalker@*****.net
Subject: Shadowrun Character Generators
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:08:25 +0100
Hi Everybody, Does anyone know of any character generators that are
compatible with SR3?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Watch the Shadow's.....
You never know what lives there!!"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
EdgeWalker@*****.net
Therin@*****.net
Andrew.Benn@*****.net
ABenn@*****.net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.prima.net/abenn
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ICQ Number : 18166605
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Message no. 42
From: Rori Steel cullyn@*****.com.au
Subject: Shadowrun Character Generators
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 02:16:47 +0000 (GMT)
On Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:08:25 +0100, Edgewalker wrote:
>Hi Everybody, Does anyone know of any character generators that are
>compatible with SR3?

AdamJ was working on getting Pocket Secretary up to speed, but he had
lots on his plate and something had to go (IIRC). There has since
been talk of either him or someone else taking it up, but you know
what gossip is like.

http://shadowrun.html.com/tss <--- from here you should find out the
lastest info on it... and also TSS10 which was just released! *grin*

I know that it was a big job, and probably one hard to do in a team
effort across the globe. So either starting another one from scratch,
or co-ordinating PS being brought up to speed, would be a painful
task. Still... this being a discussion list and all ;>

Cullyn
cullyn@*****.com.au

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Thwap!