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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: mamos@*****.com (Mike Amos)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:54:54 -0700
Sorry I misunderstood your status with Fanpro and Whizkids. It was
unintentional

I'm gonna give up now. I totally do not understand the business model here.
I guess I should jsut retire from this discussion by saying, I won't be
buying any. Good luck with your duels everyone.

Mike
Message no. 2
From: adamj@*********.com (Adam Jury)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:34:23 -0500
At 14:54 2/17/2003, Mike Amos wrote:

>I'm gonna give up now. I totally do not understand the business model here.
>I guess I should jsut retire from this discussion by saying, I won't be
>buying any. Good luck with your duels everyone.

I'm sorry that you don't understand the situation, but I really don't think
it's that complex.

Simply put, WizKids thinks that releasing a new game and action figures
will a) make money directly and b) raise the profile of Shadowrun [as a
world/intellectual property] to make it more attractive to other licenses,
which will hopefully make them more money in the future [novels, comics,
movies, clothing, etc.] The world is a /lot/ bigger than RPGs.

Best,
Adam
--
| Editor, The Shadowrun Supplemental: http://tss.dumpshock.com |
| adamj@*********.com | http://www.talkinabout.com | UIN: 2350330 |
Message no. 3
From: mamos@*****.com (Mike Amos)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:56:20 -0700
> I'm sorry that you don't understand the situation, but I
> really don't think
> it's that complex.
>
> Simply put, WizKids thinks that releasing a new game and
> action figures
> will a) make money directly and b) raise the profile of
> Shadowrun [as a
> world/intellectual property] to make it more attractive to
> other licenses,
> which will hopefully make them more money in the future
> [novels, comics,
> movies, clothing, etc.] The world is a /lot/ bigger than RPGs.

Ah, it's not your fault, it's my own ignorance. I get that they want to make
cash. I just don't see it as a valid business model, but I'm not a manager
of any kind either. I understand they want to make money. I hope they do. I
don't think they will. On top of that I'm just kinda offended that they are
linking them by name to Shadowrun. The characters portrayed by these action
figures exude all the things I don't like in Shadowrun, I'm one of those
quite run type people. So making a whole line based on standing toe to toe
and shooting at each other seems counter productive for the community at
large.

I guess it's not that I don't get it. It's that I hate the idea and don't
want to get it. I would like to go on pretending there is no logic behind it
because at the very least the logic seems highly flawed.

I wish they would license the clothes, I tried to order from the German
licensee but they say they can't sell to the US because their license
doesn't extend that far, I have read a novel or two. They aren't for me but
make sense, business and other. Comics, not a bad idea. Movies, God I hope
not. It would be seriously messed up (read Johnny Mnemonic then try to watch
it, that's how bad it would mess it up). The world is much bigger than RPGs
but not always for RPGs . Look at the horrible disaster for D&D with their
movie. They were doing just fine in the RPG business (better than fine, in
fact). The put out quite a few novels, some minis, no action figures as far
as I know. Then they tried going for the gold. and got the big old thumbs
down. Failure has as much of an effect on your potential market share in new
areas as success.

I'm not trying to say that Shadowrun is forever relegated to existing in RPG
land forever. However, I think it'll take a lot bigger and better planning
than just deciding your going into action figures, kind of, to be a big
player.

So as I said. I get it, kinda, it just doesn't seem to make sense to me when
I try to figure out why they are doing it. Further, I don't like the idea
for myself. I don't plan on buying them and if I do it'll be just one for my
computer. I hate the way they are trying to tie it into Shadowrun, even if
it is in hopes of future sales, since it is almost completely unrelated to
it. It's just my own distaste for the whole thing that is blocking my
understanding. I'm an bullheaded guy and chances are it's not worth anyone's
time to go on explaining it to me. I hope they do really well and make
Shadowrun the worlds biggest RPG to the level even D&D has never seen.

Thanks for everyone's help though
Message no. 4
From: adamj@*********.com (Adam Jury)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:24:52 -0500
At 15:56 2/17/2003, Mike Amos wrote:

>I'm not trying to say that Shadowrun is forever relegated to existing in RPG
>land forever. However, I think it'll take a lot bigger and better planning
>than just deciding your going into action figures, kind of, to be a big
>player.

WizKids has to start somewhere. A RPG is not a start into mainstream
acceptance - if anything, it's a negative. WizKids is widely accepted as an
innovator in the toy/collectible games market - they can't get things such
as t-shirt deals, comics, etc if they don't have something to springboard
them there, and the RPG will never do that or it would have already done so.

>So as I said. I get it, kinda, it just doesn't seem to make sense to me when
>I try to figure out why they are doing it. Further, I don't like the idea
>for myself. I don't plan on buying them and if I do it'll be just one for my
>computer. I hate the way they are trying to tie it into Shadowrun, even if
>it is in hopes of future sales, since it is almost completely unrelated to
>it.

This is where I disagree entirely, because they own Shadowrun. They can do
whatever they want with it. However, the owner of WizKids is one of the
original designers of Shadowrun - Jordan Weisman. You can bet he's not
going to be doing something that he thinks will damage Shadowrun. And it
isn't "tied into Shadowrun" - it's set in the Sixth World! It is completely
Shadowrun; just not the RPG.

I'm not saying you should buy Duels if you're not interested in it, but
trying to say that it's almost completely unrelated to Shadowrun is silly.
It's not related to the RPG, but it's taking Shadowrun in new directions.
New directions that even if they fail, will probably not hurt Shadowrun as
a RPG, as it's been a consistent strong seller for 13+ years now.

Shadowrun needs to be bigger than the RPG; the money that the RPG generates
for WizKids is a drop in the bucket compared to what Shadowrun could earn
for them as a more widely-known property.

Plus, I want new Shadowrun t-shirts.

Adam
--
| Editor, The Shadowrun Supplemental: http://tss.dumpshock.com |
| adamj@*********.com | http://www.talkinabout.com | UIN: 2350330 |
Message no. 5
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:48:40 -0700
At 04:24 PM 2/17/2003 -0500, Adam Jury wrote:

>Plus, I want new Shadowrun t-shirts.

<tongue in cheek>

...you know, if we start working on the 2003 T-shirts now, they should be
ready in time for GenCon 2003...

Just a sec, my gun is ringing.

"Hello?"

<BANG!>

</tongue in cheek>

For those who don't get it, I produced the 1999? GenCon ShadowRN
T-shirts. After having had a few years to recover I'm vaguely interested
in doing them again, kinda, sorta.

--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 6
From: Jconstable@*****.com (Jconstable@*****.com)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:36:52 +0000 (GMT)
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Graht wrote:

> For those who don't get it, I produced the 1999? GenCon ShadowRN
> T-shirts. After having had a few years to recover I'm vaguely interested
> in doing them again, kinda, sorta.

If those were the ones with just the SR logo (that IIRC Gurth was
modelling at Gencon UK two years go :-) then I'm certinaly interested..
I'd also be interested in a t-shirt with a Drago foundation logo in the
top right corner - something understated;
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/running/corp_logos.shtml

but its probably a moot point. I'll never make it to Gencon US (this
year, anyway), so unless you're willing to sort out international
shipping... Hey Lone Eagle and I could probably combine an order, right? :-)

--
john@*****.net http://www.kript.net/shadowrun
SRGC SR1+ SR3++ !SR2 h b++ B--- UB IE+ RN+ !W ma+++ gm M-- P-
HK227, 1500 nuyen. One clip of Ex Explosive, 280 nuyen. The look on the
dragon's face when you put a six round burst into the head of Michaelangelo's
David? Priceless. - Mercer (forums.dumpshock.com)
Message no. 7
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:22:04 +0100
According to Jconstable@*****.com, on Tue, 18 Feb 2003 the word on the street was...

> If those were the ones with just the SR logo (that IIRC Gurth was
> modelling at Gencon UK two years go :-) then I'm certinaly interested..

If it had a green "S" on the front, then I was wearing my '99 shirt when I met
you, yes :)

> but its probably a moot point. I'll never make it to Gencon US (this
> year, anyway), so unless you're willing to sort out international
> shipping... Hey Lone Eagle and I could probably combine an order, right?
> :-)

From '95 through '98, the shirts were printed in the US and shipped world-wide by
the person who volunteered to print them. In '99, we had three people arranging the
printing: IIRC Graht in the US, Lady Jestyr in Australia, and someone whose name I
can't recall just now in Belgium. This kind of thing would be an option this time
round, too, if shipping shirts from the US would prove problematic.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... just someone who looks like me ...
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:30:41 +0000
At 11:36 PM 17/2/2003, John wrote:
>but its probably a moot point. I'll never make it to Gencon US (this
>year, anyway), so unless you're willing to sort out international
>shipping... Hey Lone Eagle and I could probably combine an order, right? :-)

Hey I'm not even going to make GenCon UK this year (damn fool idjits movin'
it to Easter! Hows a man to get over Christmas?!?)
But yeah combining an order would be easy enough, we could also add some of
the others from the UK (if any of them are still around.)
However I still want my maglock idea :-)


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 9
From: cmd_jackryan@***.de (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:40:57 +0100
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:34:23 -0500, Adam Jury <adamj@*********.com> wrote:

[...]
> Simply put, WizKids thinks that releasing a new game and action figures
> will a) make money directly and b) raise the profile of Shadowrun [as a
> world/intellectual property] to make it more attractive to other
> licenses, which will hopefully make them more money in the future
> [novels, comics, movies, clothing, etc.] The world is a /lot/ bigger than
> RPGs.

I agree with Adam here.

This is a way to attract new markets (i.e. Players) in Shadowrun, and
hoping for some side effects.

It is very likely that people playing Duels will start playing Shadowrun.
See this as a starting drug. It is easy to understand, focuses on one point
of the SR universe
and looks good (Important for sales!). And the best thing: They don't take
away customers.

You avoid competition within the same brand, which is very important, and
can make extra nuyen
from still existing players (Some folk HAVE to collect anything.)

In fact this is more like BattleTech: The Dark Age than MageKnight.

--
Phillip Gawlowski
GameMaster and GeneralIdiot

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Shadowrun: Duels, I'm really confused then, so I quit, you may also be interested in:

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!