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Message no. 1
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:11:29 EST
Okay, I'm leaving the poll behind here on this post. I *think* I may have
part of the problem/miscommunication here (especially after reading and
returning replies to those that have answered my Poll to date...thanks to all
of you so far, everyone else, get those emails in here !!! *please* ;-).

Anyway. So many people seem to want to call something "Cyberpunk" with
regards to "Shadowrun." Folks, it's been said many times in the past, and it
sometimes needs to be restated now-and-again. Shadowrun is NOT Cyberpunk.
It does contain elements, perhaps even strong ones, of a cyberpunk
relationship. But it is more than that. That *more* also means material
like "Magic". When I asked my question/Poll statement, I was asking about
"Space in Shadowrun", or at least I was trying to do so, not about
"Cyberpunk
in Space". Shadowrun is a lot, and like so many other people, I do agree
that this "topic/subject" can be approached for Shadowrun and still retain
it's "shadowrun" core, but it will have to approached with caution and not
allowed to turn into something that simply isn't Shadowrun.

I too am looking for ideas on how to get Shadowrun into space, and yes, that
does mean getting "Magic" to work in "Space". I am NOT looking for IE
or ED
material here. I am looking for something that works within the boundaries
of the Shadowrun Magical System (ED is nice for inspiration, but it SUCKS in
the long run IMO). I have a zillion questions, and have a zillion others,
buzzing around right now.

Paracritters in Space. What happens? Why? Which Species?
Metahumans in Space....same or similar questions.
Vampires in Space...just because so many people keep trying to go back to
that issue.
Cyberware in Space...drawbacks, Mass to Weight Relations, lifesupport, etc...
Biophysical Degradation vs. Biomechanical Efficiency (yes, some of these
questions are in very technical terminology).
Magic to help lower-income groups get into space...does "movement" help
launching systems, and if so, how? "Gravity" is a listed "Environmental
Clause", and even dispite Adam Getchell's conversations earlier this year
about "Gravitic Magic", I seem to think this is going to be a likely approach
for some groups.
Space Travel ... how fast, how far, and how much?

Just a few...

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 2
From: Lee Decker deckerl@******.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:23:43 -0500
<SNIP K's comments on space>

You are correct that Shadowrun in not cyberpunk. However its not StarWars or
Traveler, etc. And its only setup
60 years from today, not in other galaxies or 1000 of years in the future.
My biggest problem, is I only see an alternate campaign, not a main stream
one. In my world, as today, Space Travel
and vehicles are owned and operated by large corps and governments. You
aren't going to stow away aboard the space
shuttle today, and I see the corps being more paranoid not less about this
topic.
So you could do a campaign where you worked for Ares as its space operatives
or somesuch, but to me you are still
drastically changing the basis of Shadowrun. I know from previous emails in
the past, that you tend to run a very
unique campaign and world, so it might fit in fine with yours. But I'm just
not sure how it would fit with mine, or if I would want it too.
Hmm...Kenson might be your best source for how magic would work in space,
since he has become the guru on the subject.
Szeto might be able to offer input into the vehicle and space station ideas.
Personally I'm looking forward to the Year of the Comet, and think it has
some interesting possibilities, but I'm hoping the space based SR doesn't
come to pass just yet.
This is all IMHO and YMMV of course.
Message no. 3
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:28:04 -0500
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
<SNIP>
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I really don't see shadowruns being
done in space at the moment. Maybe in a hundred years, when humanity understands
magic better, it'll be able to make magic work in space, but not now. However,
say you put a mage into space with a bunch of plants and a few other people.
Would that create mana? Would the meta-planes and the astral plane form around
that spaceship/ space station? I have to say if you made a large space station
and 3/4 of it was covered with plants, along with a sizable population, mana
might develop. But you'd kill off or make psycho a few mages along the way...

> Just a few...
>
> -K
> [Hoosier Hacker House]
> [http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
> ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 4
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:25:18 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ereskanti@***.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 01:11 PM
Subject: Shadowrun in Space


<snip>
> I too am looking for ideas on how to get Shadowrun into space, and
yes, that
> does mean getting "Magic" to work in "Space". I am NOT looking
for
IE or ED
> material here. I am looking for something that works within the
boundaries
> of the Shadowrun Magical System (ED is nice for inspiration, but it
SUCKS in
> the long run IMO). I have a zillion questions, and have a zillion
others,
> buzzing around right now.
<snip>

Look in MitS. It talks about what happens to mages as the leave the
Gaesphere. It is in the section on Manawarps (which is part of the
section on Background Count).

Mockingbird
Message no. 5
From: Ahrain Drigar ahrain_drigar@*******.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 03:02:41 EST
>From: Ereskanti@***.com
>Subject: Shadowrun in Space
>Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:11:29 EST
>
>I too am looking for ideas on how to get Shadowrun into space, and yes,
>that
>does mean getting "Magic" to work in "Space
>Just a few...
>
>-K
>[Hoosier Hacker House]
>[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
>ICQ#-51511837
>

Once upon a time in a node far, far away....I read somewhere that a
metamagical power had been created specifically for this purpose. Called
"Celestial Projection" (I don't know if this is the original name, but
sounds cool anyway). It basically worked by lowering the background count
(ie manawarp) level for space by 1 for every level this power was taken. It
may be a little harsh (or in some opinions not enough) but there may be
something that may be used if the site can be found.

Ahrain

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 6
From: Brent Smith Lucius@****.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:26:03 -0600
>Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
>Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I really don't see shadowruns
being
>done in space at the moment. Maybe in a hundred years, when humanity
understands
>magic better, it'll be able to make magic work in space, but not now.
However,
>say you put a mage into space with a bunch of plants and a few other
people.
>Would that create mana? Would the meta-planes and the astral plane form
around
>that spaceship/ space station? I have to say if you made a large space
station
>and 3/4 of it was covered with plants, along with a sizable population,
mana
>might develop. But you'd kill off or make psycho a few mages along the
way...

Don't forget about the little critters they use with Ferecrete to make
it stronger. Thoes in theirselves have a living aura. If you were to apply
it to the inside of the station, you would get lots of extra strength, and
maybe even a background for mana all on its own without even adding people
or plants.
Brent
Message no. 7
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:14:47 -0500
Brent Smith wrote:

> >Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
> <SNIP> I have to say if you made a large space
> station
> >and 3/4 of it was covered with plants, along with a sizable population,
> mana
> >might develop. But you'd kill off or make psycho a few mages along the
> way...
>
> Don't forget about the little critters they use with Ferecrete to make
> it stronger. Thoes in theirselves have a living aura. If you were to apply
> it to the inside of the station, you would get lots of extra strength, and
> maybe even a background for mana all on its own without even adding people
> or plants.
> Brent

That's a good idea, but it still doesn't answer the question: will the
metaplanes, mana, and the astral plane form around life? Plus the way I've
always understood it is that mana comes from the metaplanes, flows through our
world and into the astral. That means that the metaplanes are the most
important ingredient to have magic, and I don't know if they just exist, or
they come from life. Can someone ask Steve Kenson or Mike Mullivihil (sp?)?

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+
M-
Message no. 8
From: Brent Smith Lucius@****.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:22:17 -0600
>> Don't forget about the little critters they use with Ferecrete to
make
>> it stronger. Thoes in theirselves have a living aura. If you were to
apply
>> it to the inside of the station, you would get lots of extra strength,
and
>> maybe even a background for mana all on its own without even adding
people
>> or plants.
>> Brent
>
> That's a good idea, but it still doesn't answer the question: will the
>metaplanes, mana, and the astral plane form around life? Plus the way I've
>always understood it is that mana comes from the metaplanes, flows through
our
>world and into the astral. That means that the metaplanes are the most
>important ingredient to have magic, and I don't know if they just exist, or
>they come from life. Can someone ask Steve Kenson or Mike Mullivihil (sp?)?
>
>--
>--Strago


Well.. the question seems more appropriately to be, at what level of
life does a gateway exist to the planes. When is that magical pinhole opend
in the fabric allowing magic. What does it take to acheive it. Does magic
automaticaly work at full force then, or is leveled. Woud this be a negative
background count, that needs enough life to make a positive number or at
least a neutral?
Brent
Message no. 9
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:11:53 EST
> > That's a good idea, but it still doesn't answer the question: will the
> >metaplanes, mana, and the astral plane form around life? Plus the way I've
> >always understood it is that mana comes from the metaplanes, flows through
> our
> >world and into the astral. That means that the metaplanes are the most
> >important ingredient to have magic, and I don't know if they just exist,
or
> >they come from life. Can someone ask Steve Kenson or Mike Mullivihil
(sp?)?
> >
> >--
> >--Strago

I couldn't find Strago's original post, so now I'm borrowing from Brent.
(thanks btw)'

Anyway, there is a loophole to Brent's theory is that the critters in
question have to survive the trip.

To be honest, as *I* see it, Life doesn't generate *ALL* the mana, only a
portion of it. *Existence* generates vast amounts of mana-all on it's own.
The Metaplanes, again IMO, are NOT dependant upon the "Astral State of Being".

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 10
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:35:11 -0500
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:

> <SNIP MY POST>

> I couldn't find Strago's original post, so now I'm borrowing from Brent.
> (thanks btw)'
>

Great, now the list's eating my posts.

>
> Anyway, there is a loophole to Brent's theory is that the critters in
> question have to survive the trip.
>
> To be honest, as *I* see it, Life doesn't generate *ALL* the mana, only a
> portion of it. *Existence* generates vast amounts of mana-all on it's own.
> The Metaplanes, again IMO, are NOT dependant upon the "Astral State of
Being".
>

But then the Metaplanes would exist everywhere, so wouldn't there be mana
everywhere? Wait, here's a theory: we know that suffering creates an imbalance in
the mana field, restricting the flow of mana and lessening it (background count, I
think that's what it is). So maybe mana exists everywhere, including space. But
since there hasn't been a way for suffering to be caused in space, the magicians
when they try to go to the astral go mad because they are unable to cope with the
amount of mana and power. So if a magician tried to cast a spell in space, there's
more mana to be used.

>
> -K
> [Hoosier Hacker House]
> [http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
> ICQ#-51511837

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M-
Message no. 11
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:26:51 EST
In a message dated 11/18/1999 9:46:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
strago@***.com writes:

> But then the Metaplanes would exist everywhere, so wouldn't there be mana
> everywhere? Wait, here's a theory: we know that suffering creates an
> imbalance in
> the mana field, restricting the flow of mana and lessening it (background
> count, I
> think that's what it is). So maybe mana exists everywhere, including
space.
> But
> since there hasn't been a way for suffering to be caused in space, the
> magicians
> when they try to go to the astral go mad because they are unable to cope
> with the
> amount of mana and power. So if a magician tried to cast a spell in space,
> there's
> more mana to be used.

Strago, don't take this wrong, but "what are you smoking and may you please
ship a BUNCH of it to this location???"

Seriously, this NOT what mana is, neither by MitS definition nor mine own.
And the Metaplanes do NOT have to exist everywhere, they just have to exist
where they do. Just because they are not "sharing a boundary" with the
mundane world, doesn't mean anything else. You have to create a link from
one world to the metaplanar "levels" as far as I can see it (the wording
would help explain the "Astral Contact" concept for initiation even). If you
can connect to the metaplanes in some way, like a "tether" or a
"lifeline",
then you can perhaps draw upon them.

Sure, there could be restrictions, there'd have to be in order to keep the
magic system from simply not breaking apart and collapsing in upon itself.
But I do believe the rules would allow for this kind of development to work
and still retain the "World" of Shadowrun.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 12
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:45:50 -0500
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/18/1999 9:46:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> strago@***.com writes:
>
> <SNIP ME AGAIN>
>
> Strago, don't take this wrong, but "what are you smoking and may you please
> ship a BUNCH of it to this location???"
>

Well, it's called Marlboro Lights and it costs 3.25 a pack...

>
> Seriously, this NOT what mana is, neither by MitS definition nor mine own.
> And the Metaplanes do NOT have to exist everywhere, they just have to exist
> where they do. Just because they are not "sharing a boundary" with the
> mundane world, doesn't mean anything else. You have to create a link from
> one world to the metaplanar "levels" as far as I can see it (the wording
> would help explain the "Astral Contact" concept for initiation even). If
you
> can connect to the metaplanes in some way, like a "tether" or a
"lifeline",
> then you can perhaps draw upon them.
>
> Sure, there could be restrictions, there'd have to be in order to keep the
> magic system from simply not breaking apart and collapsing in upon itself.
> But I do believe the rules would allow for this kind of development to work
> and still retain the "World" of Shadowrun.
>

Well, it was just a theory, and it fit the available evidence (I don't have MitS
yet :( )

>
> -K
> [Hoosier Hacker House]
> [http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/index.html]
> ICQ#-51511837

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M-
Message no. 13
From: Bira ubiratan@**.homeshopping.com.br
Subject: Shadowrun in Space
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:45:27 -0200
On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:14:47 -0500
Strago <strago@***.com> wrote:

> Brent Smith wrote:
>
> That's a good idea, but it still doesn't answer the question: will the
> metaplanes, mana, and the astral plane form around life? Plus the way I've
> always understood it is that mana comes from the metaplanes, flows through our
> world and into the astral. That means that the metaplanes are the most
> important ingredient to have magic, and I don't know if they just exist, or
> they come from life. Can someone ask Steve Kenson or Mike Mullivihil (sp?)?
>

Say that they exist independently, but mana needs life to come
across :) . Fits perfectly.

Bira - SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://members.xoom.com/slbr
http://www.terravista.pt/Nazare/2729
ICQ# 4055455

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