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From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:02:58 -0500

Message no. 1 Got an idea I want to run by the list...it is SR related, so read the
entire post please.

Two of my big hobbies are Shadowrun (no surprise, right?) and paintball.
For those that don't know what paintball is, it is sort of cowboys and
indians (except instead of toy guns, you use air powered guns that fire .68
caliber gelcaps with water-soluable paint in them) crossed with capture the
flag. A bit like Laser Tag, but with real projectiles.

Well, one of the big things for "recreational players" (read: the vast
majority of players that don't play in tournaments) is what are called
"scenario games," which are a mix of LARP and paintball. Instead of just
playing 20 minute games of capture the flag, you join teams (like the
Russian Army, Imperial Space Marines, Aliens (yes, those Aliens) and so on)
and play for as long as 24 hours straight. There are all sorts of missions
and objectives through out the game.

Well, I'm thinking that "Blood in Boardroom" (which, incidentally, appears
to have been pushed to April) would make for a very interesting scenario game.

Here's my basic idea. Split the players into at least four teams, all of
which are fighting for one of the Megacorps, like Fuchi, Ares, Renraku and
Aztechnology. They would be fighting each other through most of the day
for territory and points. During the lunch/dinner break, these teams could
then use those points to purchase special weapons to be used in the final
battle, like PACs or magic (which would likely be simulated by the
referees) or grenades, or purchase great positions on the field (like a
nearly invincible bunker). Then, the last several hours of the game would
be fought to determine who will end up the top megacorp and who will be
crushed mercilessly.

I'm thinking that maybe in this final game that a wild card could be thrown
in; "rogue shadowrunners" or maybe the Big D's new megacorp.

I know I would have to ask for permission from FASA to use their artwork
and their company names and the like, and I think that is possible. Heck,
if I do go ahead with this idea, I'll even ask them to donate SR stuff for
prizes.

I'm wondering what you, hardcore SR players that you are, would want in a
game like this? What elements would be really cool, and what game concepts
should I simply ignore (other than the obvious IE and Enemy)?

Also, would you play this sort of game, even if you've never played
paintball before? I know there are a number of paintball players that will
play, just because it's a scenario game; question is, would gamers be
interested?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Erik J.

From:	Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:07:23 -0600

Message no. 2 ----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> Here's my basic idea. Split the players into at least four teams, all of
> which are fighting for one of the Megacorps, like Fuchi, Ares, Renraku and
> Aztechnology. They would be fighting each other through most of the day
> for territory and points. During the lunch/dinner break, these teams could
> then use those points to purchase special weapons to be used in the final
> battle, like PACs or magic (which would likely be simulated by the
> referees) or grenades, or purchase great positions on the field (like a
> nearly invincible bunker). Then, the last several hours of the game would
> be fought to determine who will end up the top megacorp and who will be
> crushed mercilessly.

Sounds like the concept behind Desert Wars. Let's get all the corps to field
small armies (or small squads in this cases) and blow the drek out of each
other in the desert. Guaranteed ratings grabber.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
ICQ 8108186 , AIM handle Nexx3
************
A beautiful woman is the hell of the soul, the purgatory of the purse, and the
paradise of the eye.........
***********
Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been
poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find
that money cannot be eaten.
- Cree Indian Prophecy
***********
Am Moireach Mor!

From:	Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:35:29 -0800

Message no. 3 <snip description>
>Also, would you play this sort of game, even if you've never played
>paintball before? I know there are a number of paintball players that will
>play, just because it's a scenario game; question is, would gamers be
>interested?

I would... if I knew where it was going to be held.

From:	Michael Vander Donk <mdonk@******.OZ.AU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:02:17 +1000

Message no. 4 Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
>
[snippo]
>
> I'm wondering what you, hardcore SR players that you are, would want in a
> game like this? What elements would be really cool, and what game concepts
> should I simply ignore (other than the obvious IE and Enemy)?
>
> Also, would you play this sort of game, even if you've never played
> paintball before? I know there are a number of paintball players that will
> play, just because it's a scenario game; question is, would gamers be
> interested?
>
I'd defiantly be interested ... pity I'm in a different country ...
*sigh* ...

I was actually thinking (only as a joke tho) of doing something like
this with battletech (the computer game) ... ie have the players fight
(paintball) their way to the mech ...

I've also thought of this in SR terms ... I always enjoy playing games
that have 2 or more teams running against each other. It makes things
extremely interesting ... no longer is the enemy a megacorp, but another
group of runners, some of which you may have worked with before .... so
much fun... and now with live ammo, it just adds a new level of
enjoyment (for some of us at least ... ;-)(something I've always wanted
to do was set up a building as a corp HQ, have 1 group defending,
another trying to infiltrate, and running it as a LRP, with traps,
alarms etc)
Anyway .. back to your post. As a megacorp war, it'll be fairly simple,
much like the other war scenarios out there.... The history & background
we all know and is fairly interchangeable .... The difficult thing is
the magic (the major difference between SR & other cyberpunk/dark future
games). You may loose some interest if there is 'new age'/weirdo stuff
in a combat simulation (but on the flip side you might also get others
interested).
The real problem I see is how to actually run/control magic... A grenade
may work, but how do differentiate between a grenade and a fireball?
Using a ref will be annoying as hell when you get tapped on the shoulder
and told your dead (with no obvious reason). Invisibility, chaos etc
will be almost impossible (other than a ref per player).
You could take ideas from other LRP games using magic. Tho this usually
involves NPC's/GM's being the enemy and no 'instant kill' (other than
good swordmanship). Other solutions may be something like, magic uses
full auto weapons, enhanced SS use single shot auto, grunts use pump
action etc. (to give magic the obvious edge). Tho this moves the focus
from magic to bigger guns....
This all depends on what players you get... Roleplayers or LRPers will
be ok with a ref telling them they are dead, they'll be able to beleive
a flying bag of sand is an incoming fireball, as well as 'hit
locations', and on-field-healing. Paintball players probably will not
...

Have a look on the web for other LRP rules ... this will give you more
ideas ... the way I see it, it would be better to run as a LRP with
guns, than a paintball game with magic. Doing it this was will move away
from sport/paintball, to a roleplay/adventure game.

If you get it up and running ... let us know how it goes...

Good luck.
Michael.

--
What's the difference between a duck? One of it's legs are both the
same.

From:	Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:09:43 +1000

Message no. 5 > > paintball before? I know there are a number of paintball players that will
> > play, just because it's a scenario game; question is, would gamers be
> > interested?
> >
> I'd defiantly be interested ... pity I'm in a different country ...
> *sigh* ...

I too am interested... let me know when you've worked out the rules, and
I'll try and get a Brisbane game going. I know there's quite a few
Brisbanites who'd be interested - my entire gaming group, plus a few
extras, plus I can think of three or four other Brisbanites who are on
this list (Robert Watkins, Nightrain, Peter Bailey...)

Lady Jestyr

- I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |

From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:17:15 -0500

Message no. 6 At 06:07 PM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote:

>Sounds like the concept behind Desert Wars. Let's get all the corps to field
>small armies (or small squads in this cases) and blow the drek out of each
>other in the desert. Guaranteed ratings grabber.
>
Almost forgot about the Desert Wars thing. That would be pretty cool
too...and maybe easier to translate into paintball for you and I to play.

BTW, I suppose I forgot to mention that I would be trying to do this in
Southern California. Couple of local fields that could probably host it.
Of course, I would need to move from vague idea (like it is now) to
actually coming up with the format (which is where I hope you folks can
help) to asking for permission from the various parties (FASA, the field,
sponsors, magazines, etc.).

And of course, even though I would be organizing it, I would have to get in
the game as the leader of the team of rogue/neo-Anarchist
shadowrunners...<evil organizer laugh>

Erik J.

"Oh, the silent helicopters and the men in black fatigues? They're just my
car pool to work."

From:	Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:20:20 -0600

Message no. 7 ----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> Almost forgot about the Desert Wars thing. That would be pretty cool
> too...and maybe easier to translate into paintball for you and I to play.
Don't look at me to be playing. I'm blind as a bat (without glasses, I'm
legally blind in one eye, and half-way there in the other. With glasses, I'm
legally blind in one eye and a quarter of the way there in the other). Not to
mention I'm half a continent away from SoCal?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
ICQ 8108186 , AIM handle Nexx3
************
A beautiful woman is the hell of the soul, the purgatory of the purse, and the
paradise of the eye.........
***********
Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been
poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find
that money cannot be eaten.
- Cree Indian Prophecy
***********
Am Moireach Mor!

From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:37:02 -0500

Message no. 8 Magic would be the hard part for this game...I'm thinking of just dropping
that part of it altogether.

Actually, in scenario games it could work, but I'm afraid it'll sound too
weird. See, in most scenario games you can buy, with points, stuff like
air strikes, artillery, and so on. In those cases, the general for that
side tells the referees what he is doing ("I want a tac nuke on that hill
now!") and the ref then goes and taps the players on the shoulder (or
whatever) and tells them that they have been eliminated, please proceed to
the reincarnation field and wait ten minutes before returning to the field
of combat. So the basic mechanics of, say, a fireball, wouldn't be that
hard. The basic concept of magic might be hard for paintballer's to
swallow though.

When I get things done, I'll post my rules and such to the list, so if you
want to try it in Oz or in Europe (I know for a fact that in England and
Europe paintball is a fast growing sport), you can go for it. Of course,
I'll have to see if I can get approval for things from FASA and such first...

Thanks!

Erik J.

"Oh, the silent helicopters and the men in black fatigues? They're just my
car pool to work."

From:	Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:47:55 +1000

Message no. 9 Lady Jestyr writes:
>> I'd defiantly be interested ... pity I'm in a different country ...
>> *sigh* ...
>
>I too am interested... let me know when you've worked out the rules, and
>I'll try and get a Brisbane game going. I know there's quite a few
>Brisbanites who'd be interested - my entire gaming group, plus a few
>extras, plus I can think of three or four other Brisbanites who are on
>this list (Robert Watkins, Nightrain, Peter Bailey...)

I'd think about it, that's for sure... Don't know if I could manage it
(between buying/improving my home, work, my fiance, and trying to get a SR
campaign together, I've got a lot on my plate right now)

My group would probably be interested too.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons robert.watkins@******.com

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:19:15 +0000

Message no. 10 And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Magic would be the hard part for this game...I'm thinking of just dropping
|that part of it altogether.

Why? What's so difficult about using magic?
If you can see them, you can shout spell vocals at them. Simple.
You'd have to standardise the damage/resistance things, so that you didn't
have to roll dice in mid play, but that's no problem.

I'm an LRPer as well, and the way it's done in the system I prefer is to buy
spells with character points <karma>. These spells affect everyone, unless
they've spent character points to buy immunity to that specific spell.

Damaging spells work similary, but there are spells that grant armour, which
can negate/reduce damage. Normal physical armour can't.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

From:	Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Thu, 19 Mar 1998 04:10:13 PST

Message no. 11 <SNIP>
Michael Vander Donk <mdonk@******.OZ.AU> wrote:
> The difficult thing is
>the magic (the major difference between SR & other cyberpunk/dark
future
>games). You may loose some interest if there is 'new age'/weirdo stuff
>in a combat simulation (but on the flip side you might also get others
>interested).
>The real problem I see is how to actually run/control magic... A
grenade
>may work, but how do differentiate between a grenade and a fireball?
>Using a ref will be annoying as hell when you get tapped on the
shoulder
>and told your dead (with no obvious reason). Invisibility, chaos etc
>will be almost impossible (other than a ref per player).
>You could take ideas from other LRP games using magic. Tho this usually
>involves NPC's/GM's being the enemy and no 'instant kill' (other than
>good swordmanship). Other solutions may be something like, magic uses
>full auto weapons, enhanced SS use single shot auto, grunts use pump
>action etc. (to give magic the obvious edge). Tho this moves the focus
>from magic to bigger guns....
>This all depends on what players you get... Roleplayers or LRPers will
>be ok with a ref telling them they are dead, they'll be able to beleive
>a flying bag of sand is an incoming fireball, as well as 'hit
>locations', and on-field-healing. Paintball players probably will not
>...
>
>Have a look on the web for other LRP rules ... this will give you more
>ideas ... the way I see it, it would be better to run as a LRP with
>guns, than a paintball game with magic. Doing it this was will move
away
>from sport/paintball, to a roleplay/adventure game.
>

About the Magic thing:

The Magic system in one of the LRP systems that I play in is fairly
simple so I'll outline it here.

System rules that are avalable to every player contain a description of
every spell in the system most of which are fairly simple e.g.
(elemental) Blast
This is a bolt of elemental energy that flies from the caster to the
target
Blast causes two points of damage to the chest through armour (normal
human hits are 2/2 that is 2 per extremity and 2 on the torso)

Here is a typical vocal for a fireblast spell, cast by a normal mage
against a person in a green shirt.

<points at target> shouts "Hey You in the green Shirt" to attract the
persons attention "By the Power of Fire Spell Casting Fire Blast"
^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^
^^^^^^^
invocation |
Spell Name
power by which
the spell is cast.
for SR I would
guess at the totem's
name for shaman
for hermetics I don't
know

If the Person in the green shirt heard the spell being cast at him then
they would mentally subtract 2 hits from their chest. and if they have
no hit's left on their chest then fall to the ground.

I can't particularly see a way to integrate the SR hit system in to an
LRP with out a fair amount of hastle.

hope it helped

-Matthew Waddilove

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From:	John Vots <jvots@**.KO.COM>
Subject:	Re: Shadowrun LARP (sort of)
Date:	Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:59:30 -0500

Message no. 12 >And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
>|
>|Magic would be the hard part for this game...I'm thinking of just
>dropping
>|that part of it altogether.
Good idea, difficult to pull off. I had a similar idea about doing this
exce3pt with WH40K/ Necromunda.

>Why? What's so difficult about using magic?
>If you can see them, you can shout spell vocals at them. Simple.

Shouting on a paintball field is either ineffective or deadly. There is a
hard plastic shell an your head and no one can understand a thing you say,
especially over all the other shouting. The deadly comes into play when you
are sneaking about and all of a sudden you have to shout your spell out, it
gets you geeked quick (and not always by the opposition).
I know I've lit a guy up on my own side when he gave away an ambush.

>I'm an LRPer as well, and the way it's done in the system I prefer is >to
buy spells with character points <karma>. rmour can't.

This is by far the best way for a LARP IMO. I just do not see it working on
a Paintball field.

For Magic in that area I would go with Grenades of a Special (reserved)
Color that symbolizes Magic and thus everyone knows that is what it
symbolizes (or at least should).

Jester

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