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Message no. 1
From: BillT@*********.com BillT@*********.com
Subject: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:11:05 -0700
I'm sure that many of you read Slashdot.org, the geek news web site.
For those who don't there is an article posted today by JonKatz
talking about Shadowrun specifically and how the dark future
portrayed there is already a reality.

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid�/06/04/1525259&mode=thread
--

BillT@*********.com |When Cryptography is outlawed
PGP KeyID#: 0xECB1EE6F |only Outlaws will unir Pelcgbtencul
Message no. 2
From: Raveness Ravensbane ravenessravensbane@*****.com
Subject: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:20:31 -0700 (PDT)
--- BillT@*********.com wrote:
> I'm sure that many of you read Slashdot.org, the
> geek news web site.
> For those who don't there is an article posted today
> by JonKatz
> talking about Shadowrun specifically and how the
> dark future
> portrayed there is already a reality.
>
>
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid�/06/04/1525259&mode=thread
> --
>
> BillT@*********.com

YES!
If nothing else, this will sell a few more books for
FASA...


====~Raveness

http://www.sova.net/trish/roleplaying/shadowrun/pocketsecretary/

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Message no. 3
From: Drew Curtis dcurtis@***.net
Subject: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:28:10 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Raveness Ravensbane wrote:

> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid�/06/04/1525259&mode=thread
> > --
> YES!
> If nothing else, this will sell a few more books for
> FASA...
>

And then turn them into an evil corporate empire holding down the common
man. Cool!

Drew Curtis, President, Digital Crescent, Incorporated
http://www.dcr.net (502) 226 3376 Internet services.
Frankfort Lawrenceburg Shelbyville Owenton Louisville Lexington

http://www.fark.com: If it's not news, it's fark.
Message no. 4
From: Raveness Ravensbane ravenessravensbane@*****.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:54:54 -0700 (PDT)
> On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Raveness Ravensbane wrote:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid�/06/04/1525259&mode=thread
> > > --
> > YES!
> > If nothing else, this will sell a few more books
> for
> > FASA...
> >
>
> And then turn them into an evil corporate empire
> holding down the common
> man. Cool!
>
> Drew Curtis

<begin conspiracy theorizing>
Fasa or /.? Think of the power of the media that /.
has over all those people... Selling more books for
FASA is just the tip of the ice burg... a show of
force, a flexing of corporate muscles if you please...
</end conspiracy theorizing>

*feeling the dark side take over* Mu ha ha ha!

Anyone have any comments here about Jon Katz's
article?


====~Raveness

http://www.sova.net/trish/roleplaying/shadowrun/pocketsecretary/

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Message no. 5
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:57:05 -0600
At 11:54 6/8/00 -0700, Raveness Ravensbane wrote:

>Anyone have any comments here about Jon Katz's
>article?

Jon Katz wrote it.

I think that sums up my opinion nicely.. =)

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 6
From: Raveness Ravensbane ravenessravensbane@*****.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
--- Adam J <adamj@*********.html.com> wrote:
> At 11:54 6/8/00 -0700, Raveness Ravensbane wrote:
>
> >Anyone have any comments here about Jon Katz's
> >article?
>
> Jon Katz wrote it.
>
> I think that sums up my opinion nicely.. =)
>
> Adam
> --

Don't like Jon Katz?

====~Raveness

http://www.sova.net/trish/roleplaying/shadowrun/pocketsecretary/

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Message no. 7
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:22:06 -0600
At 12:02 6/8/00 -0700, Raveness Ravensbane wrote:

>> Jon Katz wrote it.
>>
>> I think that sums up my opinion nicely.. =)
>
>Don't like Jon Katz?

I don't know Jon Katz. However, his articles leave me.. well, unsatisfied.
He gets into his ideas, and he never really explores them, comes to any
conclusion, or does much but rabble-rousing, IMO. I never feel like I've
read anything that's given me any solid information nor any 'tools' to
further explore it.

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 8
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:46:31 -0500
From: "Adam J" <adamj@*********.html.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org


> >Don't like Jon Katz?
>
> I don't know Jon Katz. However, his articles leave me.. well, unsatisfied.
> He gets into his ideas, and he never really explores them, comes to any
> conclusion, or does much but rabble-rousing, IMO. I never feel like I've
> read anything that's given me any solid information nor any 'tools' to
> further explore it.

I have to admit that Adam's opinion is a fairly stirring one as well for me.
Sure, it's super-cool that "Shadowrun" is about to probably get even more
readers if nothing else seeing as how slashdot.org has been gaining
internet-ground within the last year.

And a lot of the parallels between "Real Life" and "Shadowrun" that
Mr. Katz
puts up are fairly common to us as a readers on this list, the DRF or
rec.games.frp.cyber. However; to readers who aren't on or a normal part of
any of those informational exchanges, this could be a bit chilling.

It kind of makes me chuckle in a way. I seem to recall a year or two ago at
Gencon one of the people from TSR/WotC's marketing department(s) making a
statement however though "Shadowrun" wasn't the immediate competitor to
their number one product(s), they did consider it an "immediate threat".

Well it looks like that threat just gained a considerable amount of ground.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
NeoJudas ("K" to Friends)
"Children of the Kernel: Reborn"
(neojudas@******************.com)
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 9
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:27:14 -0600
At 14:46 6/8/00 -0500, NeoJudas wrote:

>It kind of makes me chuckle in a way. I seem to recall a year or two ago at
>Gencon one of the people from TSR/WotC's marketing department(s) making a
>statement however though "Shadowrun" wasn't the immediate competitor to
>their number one product(s), they did consider it an "immediate threat".
>
>Well it looks like that threat just gained a considerable amount of ground.

I don't really think so. Slashdot is "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters".
The nerds that are already interested in roleplaying probably already have
some sort of knowledge about SR or already play it.

The nerds that aren't interested in roleplaying probably aren't going to
pick up a game just because Jon Katz thinks that it's Oh So Relevant.
Moreso, the people who do pick up SR because of this article are probably
not going to play it, only read it. Now I don't think this is a bad thing,
per se - a sale is a sale, but unless the person goes "Whoah! This is f'ing
cool!" and continues to buy SR books for the metaplot and themes contained
within, I doubt that many will continue to purchase SR books.

And let's not forget that a lot of tech savvy readers will hit FASA.com and
go "Ewwww!", then run away. <sigh>

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 10
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:47:35 +0200
> Adam J wrote:
> I don't really think so. Slashdot is "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters".
> The nerds that are already interested in roleplaying probably already have
> some sort of knowledge about SR or already play it.

I don't think this goes for all nerds. I know a lot of nerds that are to
down to earth and don't have enough imagination to really like roleplaying
games. Hell, most nerds I know don't even like computer games,...they like
to *make* computer games,...just not play them.

> The nerds that aren't interested in roleplaying probably aren't going to
> pick up a game just because Jon Katz thinks that it's Oh So Relevant.
> Moreso, the people who do pick up SR because of this article are probably
> not going to play it, only read it. Now I don't think this is a bad thing,
> per se - a sale is a sale, but unless the person goes "Whoah! This is
f'ing
> cool!" and continues to buy SR books for the metaplot and themes contained
> within, I doubt that many will continue to purchase SR books.

This is what I've seen happen with Vampire. I haven't played it, but I heard
that it became second biggest RPG because most of the people buy the books
just to read them, not to actually play the game. I must say, from what I've
seen the Vampire books do look rather good and I don't think this will
happen with SR books. Certainly not now that Mike M. has decided that
artwork is (relatively) unimportant.

> And let's not forget that a lot of tech savvy readers will hit FASA.com
and
> go "Ewwww!", then run away. <sigh>

This is true,...can't agree with you more.

DV8

"Abashed the Devil stood, and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 11
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:47:52 -0500
From: "Adam J" <adamj@*********.html.com>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org


> >Well it looks like that threat just gained a considerable amount of
ground.
>
> I don't really think so. Slashdot is "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters".
> The nerds that are already interested in roleplaying probably already have
> some sort of knowledge about SR or already play it.

Ah, but that "News for Nerds" is functionally highlighted in over 10% of the
F500 group.

> The nerds that aren't interested in roleplaying probably aren't going to
> pick up a game just because Jon Katz thinks that it's Oh So Relevant.
> Moreso, the people who do pick up SR because of this article are probably
> not going to play it, only read it. Now I don't think this is a bad thing,
> per se - a sale is a sale, but unless the person goes "Whoah! This is
f'ing
> cool!" and continues to buy SR books for the metaplot and themes contained
> within, I doubt that many will continue to purchase SR books.

And I never said that they'd come running and screaming into the game, I
said they'd gain ground. Anytime newsbreaks of this scale and size, and I
think we all know the term "Scale" in this case is in proportion to the
gaming industry, not the world-wide news organization, it usually generates
interest. Interest generates sales increases, or at the very least
awareness increase.

> And let's not forget that a lot of tech savvy readers will hit FASA.com
and
> go "Ewwww!", then run away. <sigh>

You know, I could have philosophized all day with ya on an opposing
viewpoint until you got right *here*.

In some lightly positive news, something we noticed amongst ourselves on IRC
this morning was that FASA's website has had two sets of updates within a
month (mostly art-related), but at least there is some business-end traffic
there for a change.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
NeoJudas ("K" to Friends)
"Children of the Kernel: Reborn"
(neojudas@******************.com)
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 12
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:41:27 +0200
According to Raveness Ravensbane, at 11:54 on 8 Jun 00, the word on the
street was...

> Anyone have any comments here about Jon Katz's
> article?

Not really, except that he doesn't seem to have played the game (or at
least not for very long) and only refers to the parts of it that will
support his argument, conveniently leaving out the other parts that
don't...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here come the golden oldies. Here come the Hezbollah.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: Raveness Ravensbane ravenessravensbane@*****.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:05:12 -0700 (PDT)
--- Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Raveness Ravensbane, at 11:54 on 8 Jun
> 00, the word on the
> street was...
>
> > Anyone have any comments here about Jon Katz's
> > article?
>
> Not really, except that he doesn't seem to have
> played the game (or at
> least not for very long) and only refers to the
> parts of it that will
> support his argument, conveniently leaving out the
> other parts that
> don't...
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl -

Well, of course...rule of writing, if it doesn't jive
with what you say...leave it out! I think it was
probably more entertaining reading the comments though.

====~Raveness

http://www.sova.net/trish/roleplaying/shadowrun/pocketsecretary/

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Message no. 14
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:18:01 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippola(TM)>
> <begin conspiracy theorizing>
> Fasa or /.? Think of the power of the media that /.
has over all those people... Selling more books for
FASA is just the tip of the ice burg... a show of
force, a flexing of corporate muscles if you please...
> </end conspiracy theorizing>
> ~Raveness

Ice Burg?

Where's that?

Is it in Germany?

*Doc' digs out his old school atlas and rummages
through it, smiling at the memories his various
doodlings bring back..."Look, mummy, I can draw a penis!"*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer

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Message no. 15
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Fwd: Re: Shadowrun on Slashdot.org
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:22:05 +0200
According to Raveness Ravensbane, at 6:05 on 9 Jun 00, the word on the
street was...

> Well, of course...rule of writing, if it doesn't jive with what you
> say...leave it out!

I know, but it's so obvious when they're doing it about something I know a
lot about :) Then again, I see two (or more) sides to just about
everything and sometimes need to stop myself from mentioning things that
will counter my own arguments...

> I think it was probably more entertaining reading the comments though.

The further down the page I got, the more I started skipping, so I can't
really tell...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Here come the golden oldies. Here come the Hezbollah.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Shadowrun on Slashdot.org, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!