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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: elgranazul@**********.org (El Gran Azul)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:34:27 +0100
Hi all.

I'm a spanish player of Shadowrun. A lot of time ago i start some
shadowrun programming proyects, but leaved it away due to my study and
work, but now my work "need" that i learn some language (C# - Mono/.NET)
and architecture, and i started again my project.

The idea:

Create a full suite of shadowrun software that run on Windows, Linux and
MacOS, not just a character generator or dice roller, but a full suite,
with game traking for GMs, etc. It will be for shadowrun 4th edition.

Some properties:

- Platform: Mono (free open source .NET implementation sponsored by
Novel)
- Code language: C#
- Window manager: GTK#
- File system: XML

My goals with this options are:

- Full interoperatibility: it should work on the fly in Windows, Linux
and Mac.
- Full multilanguage: Interface is easy to localize, but with xml
files, it's also easy to create localized tags for each item saved.
- XML schema: i want to create a full xml schema that define every
aspects of shadowrun.
- All software, UML files, xml schemas, documentation, etc will be
released under GNU/GPL licence.

I've a sorceforge project, in
https://sourceforge.net/projects/shadowrunsuite/.

I want to know if there is some legal issues i should know (software
rights, etc), and if someone want to join project, it will be
welcomed :)
Message no. 2
From: rencheple@*******.net (Tim Martin)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:06:28 -0400
El Gran Azul wrote:

>The idea:
>
>Create a full suite of shadowrun software that run on Windows, Linux and
>MacOS, ...
>
>
That's quite an ambitious project, Blue. While I can't offer you any
legal or technical help, I can offer you my encouragement and best wishes!

Tim
Message no. 3
From: elgranazul@**********.org (El Gran Azul)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:12:24 +0100
Thanks :)...

Ide is that i MUST work with this components, and some advanced ones,
and i think that if i can try it and do something to Shadowrun it's
best :)

El lun, 29-08-2005 a las 13:06 -0400, Tim Martin escribió:
> El Gran Azul wrote:
>
> >The idea:
> >
> >Create a full suite of shadowrun software that run on Windows, Linux and
> >MacOS, ...
> >
> >
> That's quite an ambitious project, Blue. While I can't offer you any
> legal or technical help, I can offer you my encouragement and best wishes!
>
> Tim
>
>
>
Message no. 4
From: davek@***.lonestar.org (David Kettler)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:19:20 +0000
On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 05:34:27PM +0100, El Gran Azul wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I'm a spanish player of Shadowrun. A lot of time ago i start some
> shadowrun programming proyects, but leaved it away due to my study and
> work, but now my work "need" that i learn some language (C# - Mono/.NET)
> and architecture, and i started again my project.
>
> The idea:
>
> Create a full suite of shadowrun software that run on Windows, Linux and
> MacOS, not just a character generator or dice roller, but a full suite,
> with game traking for GMs, etc. It will be for shadowrun 4th edition.
>
> Some properties:
>
> - Platform: Mono (free open source .NET implementation sponsored by
> Novel)
> - Code language: C#
> - Window manager: GTK#
> - File system: XML
>
> My goals with this options are:
>
> - Full interoperatibility: it should work on the fly in Windows, Linux
> and Mac.
> - Full multilanguage: Interface is easy to localize, but with xml
> files, it's also easy to create localized tags for each item saved.
> - XML schema: i want to create a full xml schema that define every
> aspects of shadowrun.
> - All software, UML files, xml schemas, documentation, etc will be
> released under GNU/GPL licence.
>
> I've a sorceforge project, in
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/shadowrunsuite/.
>
> I want to know if there is some legal issues i should know (software
> rights, etc), and if someone want to join project, it will be
> welcomed :)
>
>

Wow...that was a whole lot of buzzwords. More buzzwords than I ever seen in a ShadowRN
post. But as is the case with many buzzword-dominated ideas, I can't tell exactly what it
is you plan on doing. Furthermore, I have to question whether your design decisions are
based on an objective evaluation of the possibilities or just on what's trendy.

Why C#? I really don't get that one. It seems to me that a higher level language like
Python would be far more appropriate for a project of this nature.

What does "File system: XML" even mean? Are you outputting XML files from the
character generator? What's the point of that, as opposed to just generating plain (but
more standard and portable) html? Or are you storing configuration options in XML? (In
which case I have to ask...why?)


Anyway, making a set of cross-platform utilities for SR4 certainly isn't a bad idea but I
have to wonder if you're really going about this the right way.

--
Dave Kettler (Die hard UNIX geek who still writes in FORTRAN on occasion)
davek@***.lonestar.org
http://davek.freeshell.org/
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Message no. 5
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:26:13 -0600
On 8/29/05, David Kettler <davek@***.lonestar.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 05:34:27PM +0100, El Gran Azul wrote:
>
> > work, but now my work "need" that i learn some language (C# -
Mono/.NET)
> > and architecture, and i started again my project.
>
> Why C#? I really don't get that one.

He has to learn C# for his job :)

--
-Graht
Message no. 6
From: davek@***.lonestar.org (David Kettler)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:40:53 +0000
On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 11:26:13AM -0600, Graht wrote:
> On 8/29/05, David Kettler <davek@***.lonestar.org> wrote:
> > Why C#? I really don't get that one.
>
> He has to learn C# for his job :)
>

OK, I could certainly accept that if he was just fooling around with stuff on his own an
wanted to write a simple utility. I've done my share of inappropriate language choices
for the sake of learning.

But he was talking about starting an ambitious, large scale project and immediately picks
the wrong tools to do the job. So I reserve my right to criticize. In part it's because
I do like the idea of the project and would probably be willing to help out if different
choices were made. As it is now I doubt I'll contribute anything.

--
Dave Kettler
davek@***.lonestar.org
http://davek.freeshell.org/
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Message no. 7
From: elgranazul@**********.org (El Gran Azul)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:47:22 +0100
Ok, each one at time: ;)

> Wow...that was a whole lot of buzzwords. More buzzwords than I ever seen in a
ShadowRN post. But as is the case with many buzzword-dominated ideas, I can't tell
exactly what it is you plan on doing. Furthermore, I have to question whether your design
decisions are based on an objective evaluation of the possibilities or just on what's
trendy.
>

Mi decitions are in:

1st. My needs: i need to learn that, then i'll use that...
2nd. Interoperatibility: i wnat to runn all this software under all
platforms i use
3rd. Localization: i want to ease localization of this software to all
languages as i can.
4th. Shadowrun comunity: i'll try to let shadowrun comunity something
that can use, modify

> Why C#? I really don't get that one. It seems to me that a higher level language
like Python would be far more appropriate for a project of this nature.
>

I's your appreciation... c# is a higer level language than python, and
python have not all thing that mono/.NET platform bring to us. Second is
that i need to learn c#.

Another question is that i'm going to create a Shadowrun Library with
all common operations and objects to allow other programmers that use
Mono create his software easily.

C# is a ECMA Standard, Python not. Python is a great language, but it's
not my scope.

> What does "File system: XML" even mean? Are you outputting XML files from
the character generator? What's the point of that, as opposed to just generating plain
(but more standard and portable) html? Or are you storing configuration options in XML?
(In which case I have to ask...why?)
>

Ok... i'm going to use XML to store data and as output format because:

- I need not a DB... all data can be stored esily in xml and objects
requested with xquery. With plain text i should implements my own query
routines.
- I want to create output files in as many formats as i can (pdf, html,
svg, swf, etc...) and with xml it's simple, there is a lot of libraries
that do that.
- I want to create a file format easy to read and code not only for
machines, i want to let a human read file and know what it is.
- XML is a Standard
- I want to create some XML schemas to definde Shadowrun Objects.

>
> Anyway, making a set of cross-platform utilities for SR4 certainly isn't a bad idea
but I have to wonder if you're really going about this the right way.
>

Yes, i've think a lot about this... ant i'm coming to create some UML
files to create object structure of y first software, a sr4 Characer
Generator... but of course, i need the book to start ;)

Please, i want not to troll shis list, if someone have some idea or
question about it, my email is elgranazul@**********.org ;)
Message no. 8
From: sfeley@*****.com (Stephen Eley)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:21:01 -0400
On 8/29/05, El Gran Azul <elgranazul@**********.org> wrote:
>
> Mi decitions are in:
>
> 1st. My needs: i need to learn that, then i'll use that...
> 2nd. Interoperatibility: i wnat to runn all this software under all
> platforms i use
> 3rd. Localization: i want to ease localization of this software to all
> languages as i can.
> 4th. Shadowrun comunity: i'll try to let shadowrun comunity something
> that can use, modify


You might want to go to the Dumpshock forums
(http://forums.dumpshock.com) and catch up on the couple of
discussions people are already having concerning SR4 character
generators and utilities. There's talk about making them online,
although no one's talking about using C#.

As for me, I wish you luck, but I've also seen the cycles. I think
just about every role-player who's technically proficient wants to
make a character generator for some RPG as a "spare time" programming
project... 99% of those projects are abandoned early, once it's
discovered that the basic class structures are easy but the details,
the data entry, and the exceptions (special rules for gear, spells,
etc.) aren't just hugely time-consuming, they're not very fun. And
yes, I've started and abandoned such projects myself.

Again, though, good luck. If you're in the 1% who actually starts and
*finishes* a basic role-playing utility (e.g. a character generator --
never mind combat managers and other GM tools) you'll have a very
impressive achievement.

Meanwhile, at least there's NSRCG for 3E. >8-> (One of the best
chargen programs I've ever seen -- thorough *and* easy to use, an
extraordinarily rare combination.)


--
Have Fun,
Steve Eley (sfeley@*****.com)
ESCAPE POD - the SF podcast magazine
http://escape.extraneous.org
Message no. 9
From: elgranazul@**********.org (El Gran Azul)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:45:58 +0100
Because of that i want to create a mono library with all common class
and operations. With it, all one that want to create a "better" or "best
for me" character generator or another other software, can do in in
language he like (python, for example, with iron python) ;)

El lun, 29-08-2005 a las 14:21 -0400, Stephen Eley escribió:
> On 8/29/05, El Gran Azul <elgranazul@**********.org> wrote:
> >
> > Mi decitions are in:
> >
> > 1st. My needs: i need to learn that, then i'll use that...
> > 2nd. Interoperatibility: i wnat to runn all this software under all
> > platforms i use
> > 3rd. Localization: i want to ease localization of this software to all
> > languages as i can.
> > 4th. Shadowrun comunity: i'll try to let shadowrun comunity something
> > that can use, modify
>
>
> You might want to go to the Dumpshock forums
> (http://forums.dumpshock.com) and catch up on the couple of
> discussions people are already having concerning SR4 character
> generators and utilities. There's talk about making them online,
> although no one's talking about using C#.
>
> As for me, I wish you luck, but I've also seen the cycles. I think
> just about every role-player who's technically proficient wants to
> make a character generator for some RPG as a "spare time" programming
> project... 99% of those projects are abandoned early, once it's
> discovered that the basic class structures are easy but the details,
> the data entry, and the exceptions (special rules for gear, spells,
> etc.) aren't just hugely time-consuming, they're not very fun. And
> yes, I've started and abandoned such projects myself.
>
> Again, though, good luck. If you're in the 1% who actually starts and
> *finishes* a basic role-playing utility (e.g. a character generator --
> never mind combat managers and other GM tools) you'll have a very
> impressive achievement.
>
> Meanwhile, at least there's NSRCG for 3E. >8-> (One of the best
> chargen programs I've ever seen -- thorough *and* easy to use, an
> extraordinarily rare combination.)
>
>
Message no. 10
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:52:35 +0200
On 29 Aug 2005, at 19:47, El Gran Azul wrote:

> I's your appreciation... c# is a higer level language than python, and
> python have not all thing that mono/.NET platform bring to us.
> Second is
> that i need to learn c#.

Fair enough. I disagree on C# being higher-level than Python,
though -- if only for Python's introspection capabilities and dynamic
typing.
Anyway. If you're using GTK as a GUI toolkit, your app won't run
natively on Mac OS X. GTK hasn't been ported to Aqua yet, meaning
that users will have to run X11 in order to use it.

-- Wild_Cat





___________________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 11
From: davek@***.lonestar.org (David Kettler)
Subject: Shadowrun Suite
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:32:14 +0000
On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 06:47:22PM +0100, El Gran Azul wrote:
> Please, i want not to troll shis list, if someone have some idea or
> question about it, my email is elgranazul@**********.org ;)
>

Expect some emails from me soon, then. I agree that this discussion probably isn't really
appropriate for the list.

--
Dave Kettler
davek@***.lonestar.org
http://davek.freeshell.org/
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

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