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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: me@*****.de (Jan)
Subject: Shadowrun Wiki on Ebay
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 00:36:14 +0100
hi

dunno whom to tell ;)

don't think the person has the correct copyrights for doing so ;)
perhaps one of you could tell the right people...

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&categoryG103&itemU48115140&rd=1

Greets
Orci
Message no. 2
From: lists@*******.com (Wordman)
Subject: Shadowrun Wiki on Ebay
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:26:10 -0500
On Jan 3, 2005, at 6:36 PM, Jan wrote:

> dunno whom to tell ;)
>
> don't think the person has the correct copyrights for doing so ;)
> perhaps one of you could tell the right people...
>
> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&categoryG103&itemU48115140&rd=1

Nice.

I guess, as the closest thing to a copyright holder on that map, this
falls to me. I just sent this to eBay:

>>>>>>>

One of your German users is selling my work without my permission. The
item is here:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&categoryG103&itemU48115140&rd=1

This appears to be a fairly obvious duplication of a map I have
produced for the role-playing game Shadowrun, with my name and the
copyright information removed. My file can be downloaded in various
forms (for free) here: http://www.divnull.com/lward/sixthworld/

Note that I do not hold the copyright on this work, even though most of
it is my original work. Because it is based on the world in a published
game, the copyright is actually held by the publishers of the game (as
indicated in my file). The publisher allows maps like mine to be
distributed under conditions listed on their site:
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/legal.shtml. My file was released under a
past version of these terms, which had the same spirit, though slightly
different text.

Your German customer, while he could make a case that he has a legal
right to redistribute my file, he cannot make a case that he is
permitted to a) remove the copyright notice and credits or b) profit
from it.

Thanks,
Lester Ward

<<<<<<<

I'll send a similar notice to the seller as well.

Wordman
Message no. 3
From: scotthiller2002@*****.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject: Shadowrun Wiki on Ebay
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:21:42 -0800 (PST)
On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:26:10 hours, Wordman wrote:

>Nice.

>I guess, as the closest thing to a copyright holder
on that map, this
>falls to me. I just sent this to eBay:

>>>>>>>

>One of your German users is selling my work without
my permission. >The
>item is here:
>http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
>ViewItem&categoryG103&itemU48115140&rd=1

>This appears to be a fairly obvious duplication of a
map I have
>produced for the role-playing game Shadowrun, with my
name and >the
>copyright information removed. My file can be
downloaded in various
>forms (for free) here:
http://www.divnull.com/lward/sixthworld/

>Note that I do not hold the copyright on this work,
even though most >of
>it is my original work. Because it is based on the
world in a published
>game, the copyright is actually held by the
publishers of the game (as
>indicated in my file). The publisher allows maps like
mine to be
>distributed under conditions listed on their site:
>http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/legal.shtml. My file was
released >under a
>past version of these terms, which had the same
spirit, though >slightly
>different text.

>Your German customer, while he could make a case that
he has a >legal
>right to redistribute my file, he cannot make a case
that he is
>permitted to a) remove the copyright notice and
credits or b) profit
>from it.

>Thanks,
>Lester Ward

<<<<<<<

>I'll send a similar notice to the seller as well.

>Wordman

Contact your lawyer, too. People like that need to be
tought it's not cool to mess around with stuff that's
not theirs.

A lot of times they tend to plead ignorance. But one
cannot have ACCIDENTALLY done this. It's a flagrant
breach of international copyright law.

Also, many people do this with ebay to get attention
because their lives suck so bad they're itching for
SOME excitement (I see the same attention-getting
common denominator as the guy in California who took
to the U.S. Supreme Court the notion to strike down
the phrase "under God" from the US Constitution. He
obviously has problems with God and conveniently
forgets that other people may not share his view, and
that, in striving to excercise HIS constitutional
right, he was infringing on the rights of others.)
Maybe the same is true for this poor schlub: He wants
attention so badly, he's willing to through morals out
the window and do something he didn't quite consider
would step on anyone else's toes.

I dunno, hopefully that's a good analogy. It's 1:21 AM
and it was a crazy day at the airport with weather
delays, so have mercy on me if it isn't ... :-)

-Scott
Message no. 4
From: lists@*******.com (Wordman)
Subject: Shadowrun Wiki on Ebay
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 22:20:45 -0500
On Jan 5, 2005, at 2:21 AM, Scott Hiller wrote:

> Contact your lawyer, too.

Lawyers are what is wrong with this country. Fuck lawyers. Honestly, I
don't particularly care about whatever copyright I might have. I do
care that people may be paying for something that they don't realize
they can get for free. There are other ways to fix that than lawyers.

In any case, the seller appears to host his "Great Library" at
http://pages.videotron.com/ikki/. Videotron.com seems to be a cable
company in Montreal, Canada, which most likely means he a) lives there
and b) probably works out of his home. He has a PayPal account, which
implies some kind of credit history (real or forged). The original link
was from the German eBay; here is a link to the English version:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemU48115140

From the types of titles in his "catalog", it wouldn't surprise me if
the rest of the books are also pulled from free sources and packaged.
His eBay feedback rating is the in the mid three digits, with only one
negative comment (which accuses him of piracy). The person who "won"
this auction has contacted me and indicates that the seller sent him an
"explanation" of his piracy:

>> From: Phoenix Fire <phoenix_fire@*********.ca>
>> To: <the buyer>
>> Subject: Re: Question for item #5538005883 - The Shadowrun World Map
>> With Cities 680 x 597 mm eBook
>> Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 09:57:31 -0500
>>
>> Question for item #5538005883 - The Shadowrun World Map With Cities
>> 680 x 597 mm eBookHi,
>> The author told me that the map is a bit different from the original
>> version. What I sold you is not the map itself since it's not mine
>> but information on how to get it, and it's legal information. Here's
>> the link for the original one.
>> http://thor.divnull.com/pub/srun/maps/world2062.pdf
>> Thanks.

Naturally, "the author" told him no such thing.

Oh, there is also a livejournal under the name fire_of_phoenix
(http://www.livejournal.com/users/fire_of_phoenix/), but I don't think
it is the same person. There are numerous references to phoenix_fire as
well.


> (I see the same attention-getting
> common denominator as the guy in California who took
> to the U.S. Supreme Court the notion to strike down
> the phrase "under God" from the US Constitution. He
> obviously has problems with God and conveniently
> forgets that other people may not share his view, and
> that, in striving to excercise HIS constitutional
> right, he was infringing on the rights of others.)

I actually support that guy, because the exact logic that you just used
works in reverse: the "under God" phrase in the pledge forces "the
rights of others" on me. Including the phrase in what is otherwise a
secular pledge of patriotism "conveniently forgets that other people
may not share" Eisenhower's view of God. I should not have to declare a
specific religious belief to swear allegiance to my nation. And I
don't: I never have vocalized that part of the pledge.

Wordman

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!