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Message no. 1
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:44:09 +1100
One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
between a shaman and animals of his totem.

Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
commandable, to a certain extent.)

I was put in mind of this during one run where we were slogging through
a forest and got attacked by some awakened Snake. (Snow Snake?) The damn
SNAKE SHAMAN was the one that got bitten *sigh*

Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?


Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Founding member of THE NADBUSTERS!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 2
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:08:48 EST
In a message dated 98-02-02 20:47:24 EST, jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU writes:

> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
> between a shaman and animals of his totem.

Oh yeah, I've heard this one before...

> Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
> swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
> commandable, to a certain extent.)

Well, sure it would, but just imagine what happens during the mating season
(grin, as LadyJ knows the joke behind this too I'd imagine).

> I was put in mind of this during one run where we were slogging through
> a forest and got attacked by some awakened Snake. (Snow Snake?) The damn
> SNAKE SHAMAN was the one that got bitten *sigh*

chuckle, he should've fed the thing first...

> Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?

Well, actually, yes, we've used a few here to make this cool...

Spells that directly involve the "totemic force" are performed with a -1 to
the benefit of the caster towards target numbers (say a Cat shaman
shapechanging into a cat or use of the "Animal Spy"). Drain numbers are
treated the same way.

Ability to learn specific spells, ask Barbie about this one. She recently
showed me one idea....

Always treating the Shaman (as long as s/he is in good standing with the
totem) with a positive column shift towards the benefits of the shaman in
dealing with animals of the kind (at least neutral in regards).

Those are a few...

-K
Message no. 3
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:51:52 +0000
In article <Pine.BSF.3.95.980203124138.27682B-
100000@*******.dialix.com.au>, Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> waffled & burbled about Shamans and their
Totem Animammles...
<snippy>
>I was put in mind of this during one run where we were slogging through
>a forest and got attacked by some awakened Snake. (Snow Snake?) The damn
>SNAKE SHAMAN was the one that got bitten *sigh*
>
>Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?


The way I deal with it is to allow an "empathic" affinity for animals
related to the totem spirit. So a dog shaman will have a chance to
calm/ignore/befriend dogs, etc. Snakes are a little unpredictable
depending on how angry/hungry/wierd they feel, but same thing basically.
The empathy is based on the intelligence willpower charisma average
(round down) in dice. Sufficient successes against the threat value of
the critter results in how "friendly" the offending beast is to the
shaman. Unfortunately the reverse is also true, a dog shaman will have
a detrimental effect on cats. :) Snakes will alienate just about
anything, and as for other critters - well, logic applies. Tiger shaman
just about scares the crap out of everything. :) Making guard animals
particularly angry (and nervous) if the affinity is tried on them.


--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk/index.htm -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims/index.htm - Alternative UK Sourcebook
(U/C)
Message no. 4
From: Mike Russell <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:27:57 EST
>>>Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
commandable, to a certain extent.)<<<

in one of the games i ran, i allowed a player to make stats for Ferret as a
Totem. i allowed him to have a Century Ferret (using the Optional rules for
Para-animals, allowing their attributes to be increased by one or two points
to represent exceptional Para-animals, specifically,the ferrets Intelligence)
provided that he pay for the Century Ferret out of his starting Resources. he
was allowed to cast and Quicken Mindlink on himself and the Ferret after he
became an Initiate and descerned that the Ferret was intelligent enough to
understand and obey commands.

a GM call i guess. depends on how good a case the character makes for whatever
he wants to do.

Mgkelly

(btw, Lady Jestyr, did you mean "amnimals"? ;] )
Message no. 5
From: Wyrmy <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:21:53 -0600
> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
> between a shaman and animals of his totem.

> Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?
Sure I always have a good I dea or 2
How about allowing them to have an animal familiar(flesh and blood) that
they find when they find out there a shaman,and the animal(mine is a
phoenix with a severely stunted growth,Sorcery, High intellegence,and
astral perception,and astral projection) Will be unique and
unbreedable,but it will never grow old because it is more magical than a
(para)normal animal.
2)Have a animal like their totem following themb around,helping them
when it can.
--
new school/Old school magic: Powerbolt and an air elemental. New school
magic: Take a right at the Metaplane of Infinite Stromboli, past the
Metaplane of Helga, to the Big Flashing Neon Pandas. Tell the watcher
"Mel" sent you.
Message no. 6
From: Dust <rogan@******.ORG>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:11:40 +0000
On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Lady Jestyr wrote:

> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
> between a shaman and animals of his totem.

Yup. I've had shamans in my campaigns actually be visited in dreams by
their totems. The totems are usually insightful but act as they should.
My cat shaman has always had a natural affinity with cats until the one
day he met "a malevolent moocher cat spirit from a 'netherworldly' depth
in the metaplanes." It was an interesting experience.

Lates,

Dust
Message no. 7
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:32:06 -0500
At 10:11 PM 2/2/98 +0000, you wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
>> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
>> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
>> between a shaman and animals of his totem.
>
>Yup. I've had shamans in my campaigns actually be visited in dreams by
>their totems. The totems are usually insightful but act as they should.
>My cat shaman has always had a natural affinity with cats until the one
>day he met "a malevolent moocher cat spirit from a 'netherworldly' depth
>in the metaplanes." It was an interesting experience.

One thing I think odd about this idea (adding an 'empathy' ability to
shamans) is that not often in the wild are animals really cooperative with
others of their kind, unless they're herd animals. Not many totems are
herd animals. I think the idea of shamans getting abilities of affinity
with their totem animals is getting a little too close to purely fantasy
RPGs (the totem giving the shaman specific abilities), rather than SR's
blend of fantasy with cyberpunk. But even if animals saw a shaman as
another of their kind, in the wild animals are very often in competition
with others of their species, thus at best a neutral reaction would be
likely. Snakes compete, for instance, as do rival wolf packs; at best they
don't fight and don't eat each other. :) If the shaman is one of them,
she'd get the same treatment, imo. Yes, a snake shaman getting geeked by a
snakebite seems odd, but irony is not a bad thing; that shaman should have
thought ahead, and avoided htat snake's territory. :)

losthalo
Message no. 8
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:22:06 -0800
Lady Jestyr wrote:

> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
> between a shaman and animals of his totem.

> Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
> swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
> commandable, to a certain extent.)

I dunno. At some point, you're might end up with players arguing that
they should never meet an enemy Wolf shaman, because they're all part of
this universal pack thing. Might make for interesting RP, but it's not
my cup of tea.

Then you run into questions of two similar shamans standing close
together and giving contrary commands, blah blah blah.

As far as the kitty horde, consider a locked/anchored Mob Mind spell
with a limited target, Felines, and possibly a few Animal Spy, Control
Animal, or (Critter) Form spells tossed into the slaad mix. (Obscure
AD&D reference.)

> I was put in mind of this during one run where we were slogging through
> a forest and got attacked by some awakened Snake. (Snow Snake?) The damn
> SNAKE SHAMAN was the one that got bitten *sigh*

Well, yeah. The poor guy's only a human being, and to get bitten by a
snake, you really have to torque it off. Imagining this guy was, I
dunno, putting his hand in its lair, it's not gonna look at his fingers
and say, "Whoa, can't do that, cause even though it smells human it's
really my old buddy Joe." Naw, it'll take a nice chomp and hopefully
send the intruding human (or even intruding snake, if you want to think
that way) out of its tunnel.

> Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?

See above spells.


-Matt

------------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl

Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:13:11 -0700
Lady Jestyr wrote:
/
/ One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
/ system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
/ between a shaman and animals of his totem.

I believe that in RL Shamans treat their totem animal with respect
and don't expect it to treat them any differently than any other
person.

A snake, for example, doesn't care who it's defending itself against.

I would allow a shaman to think like his totem animal (a wolf shaman
could think like a wolf, for example) and allow him to interact with
his totem animal. But that wouldn't give him any bonus. It would be
the same as when you talk to a stranger on the street. If you're
nice and non-threatening everything goes fine (unless the other guy
is a nut :).

/ Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
/ swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
/ commandable, to a certain extent.)

I'd make something like this an Edge. Call it Animal Afinity (specific
animal species).

/ I was put in mind of this during one run where we were slogging through
/ a forest and got attacked by some awakened Snake. (Snow Snake?) The damn
/ SNAKE SHAMAN was the one that got bitten *sigh*

<grin>

Seriously though, if I was running the game I'd allow the Snake
Shaman a perception role to notice the snake sign in the area. Or if
the player asks let him know which snakes his character might
encounter in this environment. But (keeping in mind I don't know
what happened in your game) if the Snake Shaman is walking around
without taking precautions, he has as much chance of getting bitten
as anyone else.

-David
--
"Write it on your heart that every day is the best day of the year"
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 10
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:58:07 +0000
On 2 Feb 98 at 21:21, Wyrmy wrote:
> > One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
> > system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
> > between a shaman and animals of his totem.
>
> > Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?
> Sure I always have a good I dea or 2
> How about allowing them to have an animal familiar(flesh and blood) that
> they find when they find out there a shaman,and the animal(mine is a
> phoenix with a severely stunted growth,Sorcery, High intellegence,and
> astral perception,and astral projection) Will be unique and
> unbreedable,but it will never grow old because it is more magical than a
> (para)normal animal.
Been playing AD&D latly, Wyrmy? What about Street Samurais following a
totem - do they get a familiar, too? (Careful anyone who wants to jump
on me 'because Street Sams don't have totems!' This might become a
lengthy discussion :-) My, what you describe is an ally spirit with
inhabiting, just for being a shaman.

> 2)Have a animal like their totem following themb around,helping them
> when it can.
Sure. I can see it... a gator running behind the shaman, forcefully
leaping over the wire fence, biting half the (mysteriously amazed)
security guards to cripples, and in the end carrying out all the
treasure... Hm. Wrong gaming system sneaked in somewhere, sorry.

Wyrmy, no offense meant, really. I just don't think a 'free ally' of
high (1)) or low (2)) power for shamans (shamen? *grin*) would be too
sensible.

OTOH, I agree with Lady J. In our group, it was more a roleplaying
thing then a rule. The few times we encountered wolves (Wolf being the
totem of my character), it was the shaman's first action to prevent
/anyone/ with /any/ neccessary force to harm the packs. In response,
the wolves left him (and the ones with him) alone. Of course, some
basic security actions were taken: No open food, no smellable blood,
and no fast movements. This combination convinced my GM to let the
wolves back off (not exactly what a pack would have done, from what we
know, but not too far from their behaviour pattern).

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------ ICQ#: 7 517 216 -------+------------------------+
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| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | Delphia. |
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|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| they call it the law of|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | the street.' |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary ----(N.Pollotta)-+
Message no. 11
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:40:26 -0005
On 3 Feb 98 at 12:44, Lady Jestyr wrote:

> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
> between a shaman and animals of his totem.
>
> Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
> swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
> commandable, to a certain extent.)
>
> Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?

Simplest way I can think of would be to allow a new metamagical power for
the shaman (requiring initiation of course, natch). Say on Grade 1 the
shaman gains critter power Animal Control, specific to the animal type
represented by the totem. Then just follow the standard rules for the
critter power, subsituting the shaman's Magic Attribute for Critter
Essence in the rules. I'd require some special ritual to get the power,
say a successful Astral Quest to the totem's home plane.
--
@>->,-`---
Ashelock
o=<======-

GM's Theme: "I am the eye in the sky, looking at you, I can see your lies.
I am the maker of rules, dealing in fools, I can cheat you blind."
Message no. 12
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:09:49 -0800
>On 3 Feb 98 at 12:44, Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
>> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
>> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
>> between a shaman and animals of his totem.
>>
>> Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
>> swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
>> commandable, to a certain extent.)
>>
>> Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?
>

I had a Dog shaman who wanted a pack of dogs to follow him around, so I
required he buy them as a gang at character generation. He had a pack of
dogs, but I treated them as an independant group. They generally did what
he wanted, but still acted according to their (and Dog's, er, um, the GM's)
agenda and interests.

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@*********.com)
Photography/Design

Hey, there's a URL in my sig file now!
Check it out at: http://www.lowephoto.com.

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Message no. 13
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:14:12 -0800
>On 3 Feb 98 at 12:44, Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
>> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
>> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
>> between a shaman and animals of his totem.
>>
>> Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
>> swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
>> commandable, to a certain extent.)
>>
>> Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?
>

Another thought:

It would depend on the Totem. Pack or group animals I would be willing to
implement something. Predators, particularly large solitary ones, would
generally be more difficult to rationalize cooperation.

As far as a Cat shaman having a swarm of alley cats, I'm guessing you've
never lived in a small apartment with two cats, have you? :-)

D.
Who loves his cats until they wake him up fighting at 3:00 am.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@*********.com)
Photography/Design

Hey, there's a URL in my sig file now!
Check it out at: http://www.lowephoto.com.

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--
Message no. 14
From: Da Twink Daddy <twinkie@*******.DMSC.K12.AR.US>
Subject: Re: Shamans and their Totem Animammles...
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:30:37 -0600
-----Original Message-----
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>


> One thing I have always found unsatisfactory about the shamanic magic
> system is the fact that it doesn't allow for any sort of 'synergy'
> between a shaman and animals of his totem.
>
> Would it not make for greater game depth if a cat shaman, say, had
> swarms of alley cats following him around? (They might even be
> commandable, to a certain extent.)
>
> Anyone got any ideas on how to implement this?

Simplest way I can think of would be to allow a new metamagical
power for
the shaman (requiring initiation of course, natch). Say on Grade 1 the
shaman gains critter power Animal Control, specific to the animal type
represented by the totem. Then just follow the standard rules for the
critter power, subsituting the shaman's Magic Attribute for Critter
Essence in the rules. I'd require some special ritual to get the power,
say a successful Astral Quest to the totem's home plane.


Well, that would be fine, but I'd want to allow Hermetics to do it also.
They would "align" themselves with an element (Fire earth wind water) and
they would have small amount of control over it. I mean not much, maybe
allowing to one of air to "call"/calm a small breaze. (Useful for smoke
users). Those of water could control the currents of water (not too much)
like increase/decrease an undertow. One of fire would have something similar
to "Control Flame" for AD&D... (50% increase/decrease of flames). One of
earth could do other such stuff.

Da Twink Daddy ( twinkie@*******.dmsc.k12.ar.us gilmeth@*********.com
UIN:514984)
----------
"If I had a Q-TIP, I could prevent th' collapse of NEGOTIATIONS!!"
--Zippy the Pinhead
----------
http://vancove.dmsc.k12.ar.us/~twinkie/
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