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Message no. 1
From: "THE DIFFICULT WE DO TODAY. THE IMPOSSIBLE IS OVER IN R&D."
Subject: Shapechange...
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 93 23:43:18 CET
>>>>>[quote from p.89 SR2 GRIMOIRE: "all living beings have auras,
each
aura as unique as fingerprints or DNA patterns."
quote from p. 90 SR2 GRIMOIRE: "An aura is an energy field within the
etheric body. The aura of living beings is active, generating astral signals
that a skilled magician can interpret with often-amazing accuracy."
With these two quotes in mind I think that it is very reasonable to
be able to shapechange into a creature after a mage has assensed it.
This means a magician connot change into something extinct and cannot change
into something he has never assensed. The mage should be required to spend
a lot of time, say 20 hours, before he can fully commit a shape to memory.
This requires the mage to watch the creature astrally (sense most animials
will flee the sight of an aproaching human) and is limited to watching
in 6 hour blocks(the most amount of time that most mages can stay away from
their bodies). But I do not agree that the spell will give any instincts
to the caster of the spell. Their mentality is not changed so the mage
will have to learn to fly like a bird and swim like a fish. These endevors
might require new skills or many days of pratice to get good at.
Also remember that the spell does not change equipment(atleast in SR2)
making a difficult spell to use efectively on a run.]<<<<<
-BurnouT <14:48:23/02-16-54>
Message no. 2
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 13:58:19 -0800
Marzhavasati asked:

>>Here's a question for alluvya - What do you think of Shapechange
>>having a target # equal to IQ? This is a non-resisted spell and
>>all . . . I know why it does that. Do you think a Shapechange
>>spell that *didn't* add to Reaction should have a TN of 4 or
>>what?

Target number of Shapechange is Willpower. I thought it should be 4 as a
non-resisted spell, but the DLOH disagrees.

===============================================================================
See Ya in Shadows, "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
Jason J Carter -- Deep Throat, The X-Files
The Nightstalker Carter@***.EDU
Message no. 3
From: Neal A Porter <nap@*****.PHYSICS.SWIN.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Shape Change
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 11:05:47 +1100
>Here's a question for alluvya - What do you think of Shapechange
>having a target # equal to IQ? This is a non-resisted spell and
>all . . . I know why it does that. Do you think a Shapechange
>spell that *didn't* add to Reaction should have a TN of 4 or
>what?
>
><Making an otherwise useless message pertinent . . .>
>Marzhavasati Kali
>deirdre@***.org

Good point, that shapechange spell is very underrated, even with the drain
of ((F/2)+2)S. Even lower if the mage personalises it just for him/her.
But I think the use of this spell implys some role playing style, and as such
if the player uses it well let them get away with it.
Picture this, two members of our party are being held at gun point by some
security guards when the mage suddenly turns into an Elephant. Whats more
they are in a confined room, SQUISH. Mind you this mage only knows one
spell, shapechange.

Adeus.
Message no. 4
From: ANGLISS@****.PSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Shape Change
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 19:49:37 -0400
The last run I played we were caught out on Puget Sound with a sinking/exploding
tug and Swordsman. I was the only mage there with anything resembling a
decent spell for the occasion and we had over 200m to go to something we could
hold on to(an anchor chain). So I turned into a dolphin and both of the other
characters grabbed my fins and hung on as I pulled them over to the chain.
It hurt me a lot, but it still worked. It's a really handy spell. We were
also thinking of having me fly as a gull and then a rat to scope the target
boat out.

Brian
Message no. 5
From: Neal A Porter <nap@*****.PHYSICS.SWIN.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Shape Change
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 14:23:27 +1100
In regards to exploits with the shapechange spell, our party ended up in the
water half way through an assult on a terrorist held Ferry (NAN 2). The main
Samuri, having recently aquired a Vin refused to let go of it. Needless to say
he was soon talking to the fish on a personal level, and would have stayed
there if the party mage hadn't shapechanged into a Blue Whale. { Yes I
know this is a bit large, and probable outside of the scope of the rules, but
most of the party would have drowned otherwise, as any other crit wouldn't
have held all the party up.
Not only was this an interesting piece of mage work, the mage, after
surfacing with the party on his back, proceeded to Turn to Tree (SR1) the
bad guy with the heavy weapon, leaving just the smaller fry to deal with.
After the team got onto the ferry the Troll proceeded to make some
kindling from this tree he found. It was about then that the mage dropped
both spells. A very messy Rear deck of a ferry.

Adeus.
Message no. 6
From: Ioannis Fikouras <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Shape Change
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 14:43:17 +0100
> The last run I played we were caught out on Puget Sound with a sinking/exploding
> tug and Swordsman. I was the only mage there with anything resembling a
> decent spell for the occasion and we had over 200m to go to something we could
> hold on to(an anchor chain). So I turned into a dolphin and both of the other
> characters grabbed my fins and hung on as I pulled them over to the chain.
> It hurt me a lot, but it still worked. It's a really handy spell. We were
> also thinking of having me fly as a gull and then a rat to scope the target
> boat out.

This is kind of munchkin, but what the hell.
In the module in NAN2 we had to chase a ship, guess what I changed
into a whale and swam after it :) I know whales are not alowed
but the GM said yes just for this one occasion.

--

Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS -d+@ -p+(---) c+++ l+ u+++ e@ m++(-) s/+ !n(-) h(*) f+ g! w+ t+ r++ y?
Message no. 7
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@********.CLARK.NET>
Subject: Re: Shape Change
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 16:07:03 -0500
Y

On Sun, 12 Dec 1993 ANGLISS@****.PSU.EDU wrote:

>It's a really handy spell.

Yes it is and i took full advantage of a couple of loop holes in the
wording of the spell effects as long as i could owever...

We were
> also thinking of having me fly as a gull and then a rat to scope the target
> boat out.
>
> Brian

the only problem is that you can only go [+] or [-] 2 to your body
so...if you are a mage with a body of 6 you can go up to a body size 8 or
down to a size 4 not a 1like a rat or gull would have. not a great condor
or a large dog would be fine....sorry to spoil the fun.

i got away with a couple of doozies before we got word from DLoH at
gencon and more confirmation in a copy of kage. one time i turned this
guy into a seagull and the armoured steel plate he was holding up fell
back on him and squashed him.. then we had an injured troll body of way
too big for 2 guys to carry so i turned him into a bunny rabbit and
scooped him up and away we went..oh and since he was a bunny without
cyberware and a body of two well why not just heal him too - so i did all
of which i got away with for a while until we were set striaght and did a
little more brain work

of course if you want to do some unobtrusive recon there are some huge
snakes i can think of that you could turn into and slither into a
building through the sewers and the like
-------------------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 8
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 21:48:58 -0800
> You want to qoute me the location of this non-existant rule :)

>>JUST BECAuse you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist..after all
>>i'm pretty sure baby pigeons exist and yet i have never seen one
>>[obscure quote]. however that does not mean i won't find out and let you
>>know- i have set the wheels of research grinding and soon will have your
>>answer for you. you should have seen me when i found out i couldn't turn
>>guys into little stuff and chuck them out of the window of the bison
>>anymore...

Granite, look at the similie!!!!

>>kage, issue 7, spring '93, pg 39, question 28, as follows:

>>28. can shapechange and transform spells be used to take the form of any
>>size? how about something as large as a blue whale or tiny as a krill?

>>answer: these spells can be used by the casters [victims] size within
>>limits. you can shapechange or transform into anything which has a body
>>within 2 of the caster [victim]. that means a body of 4 individual can
>>change into anything with a body of 2 to 6.

Figures, a Kage qoute. IMHO that's too limiting. You couldn't even turn a
human into an bear following those rules. I would limit the spell to nothing
smaller than a large rat or moderate sized bird to nothing bigger than a
grizzly bear.

===============================================================================
See Ya in Shadows, "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
Jason J Carter -- Deep Throat, The X-Files
The Nightstalker Carter@***.EDU
Message no. 9
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@********.CLARK.NET>
Subject: Re: Shapechange
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 17:07:52 -0500
On Wed, 15 Dec 1993, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:
> >>kage, issue 7, spring '93, pg 39, question 28, as follows:.....

> Figures, a Kage qoute. IMHO that's too limiting.

I have had the chance to abuse the transform version of this spell and i
have to say that i dissagree..i don't think it is too limiting - what it
does do though is make the mage get real creative in what he turns people
into [weather it is himself or somebody else] turning a bad guy with a
big gun into a swallow that gets frightened and flys away..and of course
as it gains some altitude drop the spell....it makes for a pretty good
visual but as it has been pointed out to me a little too munchkin. so
when we started going by the +/- 2 rule i would turn a bad guy into a
giant sloth or a galapagose turtle. i never got the chance to turn
somebody into a raptor [courtesy of jur park] in the middle of a group of
bad guys but i did turn somebody into a tuna fish [they don't last too
long out of water]

You couldn't even turn a
> human into an bear following those rules.

maybe not a grizzley with a body of 10 or a brown bear with a body of 9
but you could probably do a black bear with a body of 6 - unless you are
working with an ork or a troll in which case the grizz should be no problem

I would limit the spell to nothing
> smaller than a large rat or moderate sized bird to nothing bigger than a
> grizzly bear.
>
that is of course the gm's perogative - however i have seen the aftermath
of this spell being used without the restriction and it even seemed too
powerful to me at the time and i was the mage using it
of course a typical shark or a leopard would be a since - it is up to you
------------------------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 10
From: Lars M Ericson <lericson@***.EDU>
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 21:44:52 +0200
Although shapechaneg is a powerful spell and very useful, it does have
its limitations. For instance, a mage cannot change into something that is
over his Body+2. This was a rule clarification in Kage (one of the earlier
ones). This means for the average person (Body 3), a Bear, Rhino, or Tiger
is out of reach because those animals all have Bodies higher than 5 (mage
Body+2). Also, a mage isn't going to be able to communicate with the other
characters (I try to enforce this tremendously). A mage can cast spells
while shapechanged though, spell casting does not require speech or
gestures (unless there's a geas, another drawback to shapechange). Overall
I think that it is a very useful spell, but that it is not too powerful.



-- Lars Ericson
Message no. 11
From: Micah Levy <M.Levy@**.UCL.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shapechange
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 19:07:59 +0100
Waht about a troll mage? Here comes that rhino again...
Message no. 12
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shapechange
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 10:33:05 -0400
On Fri, 20 May 1994, Micah Levy wrote:

> Waht about a troll mage? Here comes that rhino again...
>
What about it? I read this post and the last one, and I ask
myself..."Self" say I "why do I get the impression that gm's need to get
rewarded for putting obstacles in the path of pc's?" I have often heard
on this group, people say they don't like something because a group used
it to get by something the GM had worked hours on. This is shit. You as
the gm have a responsabilit to set up a game and run it. Thats all. You
are not playing and should not be thinking of how many players you can
kill/wound/scare. The game should be entertaining and exciting.
Dissallowing a spell because it allows players to overcome obstacles
easier (something spells are designed to do) is downright stupid. It is
akin to saying "Forget it! I am taking my ball and going home!!! WAAAAAA!)
FASA did a good job playtesting Shadowrun, leave the rules there.

Nigel
Message no. 13
From: Christopher Higgins <as812@*******.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 12:30:28 -0400
Shapechange allows the mage to change a voluntary subject into any
normal critter with bonuses according to how well s/he rolls on the
casting. As far as limitations, the Q&A section of a past KaGe magazine
states that the subject cannot be changed into any critter with a natural
Body 3 points or greater than that of the subject. With that rule in mind,
the only way to get a rhino into the group would be through a high level
physical adept or a Schwarzeneggar-Troll (natural Body 10+). At a maximum
of 9 Body (natural), an ork bodybuilder could become a large bear or a
horse. Now I'm sure that physical adept attribute increases count as
natural as it states that fact in FOF under vision enhancements (magic =
natural) and it hints at it in the Black Book (pg 125) but what about
bioware? Does bioware count as natural? In one sense it does because bio
doesn't decrease essence and has only limited resistance against healing
spells. I don't have ShadowTech with me at the moment so does anyone know
if there are any bioware Body enhancements and do they count as natural
for the Shapechange spell. If yes on both counts, a Schwarzeneggar-Troll
with these enhancements could be changed into an elephant (15 Body)!!! I
think at this point we're entering the Land of Oz (Munchkinville, to be
specific) <G>.
Calling all rules lawyers!
Christopher Higgins.
Message no. 14
From: Christopher Higgins <as812@*******.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Shapechange
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 01:54:52 -0400
>On Mon, 23 May 1994, Christopher Higgins wrote:
>
>> Shapechange allows the mage to change a voluntary subject into any
>> normal critter with bonuses according to how well s/he rolls on the
>> casting. As far as limitations, the Q&A section of a past KaGe magazine
>
> Ka-Ge is *not* official. Only what's in the book is official.
>But *you* can always run it *your* way for *your* game. ;)
Hey! Someone told me that the KaGe magazines are generally accepted by
FASA. I'm a novice NetRunner, what's ;) mean? I hope it means that you're
joking. I hate to think what would happen if all those munchkins out there
get the notion that this spell can turn their gimp mage into a
super-grizzly! I'm playing a Follower-Bard whose probably going to attempt
to design a personal Shapechange. I have a Taliesin image in mind. Should
be interesting to roleplay. He'll probably tour as a pre-medieval Gaelic
floutist. Total roleplaying, I think.

>> spells. I don't have ShadowTech with me at the moment so does anyone know
>> if there are any bioware Body enhancements and do they count as natural
>> for the Shapechange spell. If yes on both counts, a Schwarzeneggar-Troll
>> with these enhancements could be changed into an elephant (15 Body)!!!
>
>> Christopher Higgins.
>
> Yes, the Adrenal Booster (which is *temporary*), and the
>Suprathyroid Gland which operates constantly. And, according to the
>rules, anyone can be changed into an elephant. Big target there. . .
> Ivy K
>
Do bioware implants count as natural for magical purposes? I certainly
hope FASA clarifies this spell 'cause as I said in the hands of a munchkin
it could get quite stupid; it barely fits the genre as is except perhaps
as a gothic-type effect (i.e. slow, gross, uncomfortable change as opposed
to fluid and easy with nifty lights).
Christopher Higgins.
(again)
Message no. 15
From: Christopher Higgins <as812@*******.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Shapechange
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 00:50:56 -0400
May 24 - Ivy K.
>
>In that case the ;) meant that it is your game, you run it, the rules are
>what you say. <real shorthand> Actually I run my game by the FASA
>rulebooks and what I have come up with. I have one issue of Ka-ge and I
>was *not* impressed.
>
I can see your point of view. KaGe can be quite cheesy at times; I
don't use most of it.

>> joking. I hate to think what would happen if all those munchkins out there
>> get the notion that this spell can turn their gimp mage into a
>> super-grizzly! I'm playing a Follower-Bard whose probably going to attempt
>> to design a personal Shapechange. I have a Taliesin image in mind. Should
>> be interesting to roleplay. He'll probably tour as a pre-medieval Gaelic
>> floutist. Total roleplaying, I think.
>
>The bigger the critter, the better the target. And none of the critters
>have much armor at all. I have a mage, real new, no karma as yet, who
>uses (Cat)form a lot. So much that she has it in a Spell-lock so that
>she doesn't have to maintain it. She just turns it on when she wishes,
>and off when she needs to.
Have you yet to meet any munchkins or does your gaming style ______
(fill in the blank - frighten, bore, irritate, etc.) them. I've met a few
and they bother the hell out of me because I prefer playing characters
with detailed personalities and lots of potential. My characters usually
start off fairly useless because although I am a bit of a rules lawyer I
try to design personality instead of power. I've been killed a few times
because I couldn't survive the $@!# the munchkins got my group into.

>> >> spells. I don't have ShadowTech with me at the moment so does anyone
know
>> >> if there are any bioware Body enhancements and do they count as natural
>> >> for the Shapechange spell. If yes on both counts, a Schwarzeneggar-Troll
>> >> with these enhancements could be changed into an elephant (15 Body)!!!
>> >
>> > Yes, the Adrenal Booster (which is *temporary*), and the
>> >Suprathyroid Gland which operates constantly. And, according to the
>> >rules, anyone can be changed into an elephant. Big target there. . .
>> > Ivy K
>> >
>> Do bioware implants count as natural for magical purposes? I certainly
>> hope FASA clarifies this spell 'cause as I said in the hands of a munchkin
>> it could get quite stupid; it barely fits the genre as is except perhaps
>> as a gothic-type effect (i.e. slow, gross, uncomfortable change as opposed
>> to fluid and easy with nifty lights).
>
>What do you mean as "natural" Chris? It doesn't make a difference that I
>can see, either way. The bio-ware is a part of the mage's body, probably
>grown from her own DNA, so what's "natural" got to do with it?
By natural, I refer to true stats. For example, Inc. Intelligence +x
isn't natural so it doesn't count in the astral plane. On the other hand,
cerebral booster is natural and so it does count in as actual
Intelligence. I always thought that that is why cyber-enhanced stats were
recorded as natural then total in parentheses beside them. By your
definition, all bioware would count into the natural stats. Your
definition is fairly close to my understanding of bioware.
>
>As for "munchkinism", what's munchkin about using a spell as written?
>All the mage gets is a bigger target if they go for an elephant. A
>bigger target with real poor armor. And can you visualize a "stealthy"
>elephant? I see no problems with it.
>Ivy K
>
I can see your point of view but I think that it requires some
limitations. Giving a mage the ability to transform him/herself into a
grizzly (B10/2,S12,Att 9D)while still retaining spellcasting ability makes
me shudder <G>
Christopher Higgins.
Message no. 16
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:54:38 +0000 (GMT)
On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, TopCat wrote:

> >Damn, yes. I don't think I noticed that "voluntary" bit before... Good
you
> >pointed it out :)
>
> I wouldn't have known it either except that one of my first mistakes was to
> set up a plan based on shapeshifting someone who didn't want to be for an
> extraction. The shaman who cast that spell was none too pleased with my
> oversight. :)
Isn't there a spell that works on non-voluntary targets, and actually
doesn't allow them to retain human consciousness? Was it only in 1st ed
Grim? Otherwsie just re-engineer the spell without the voluntary subject
modifier.

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 17
From: "ccusers" <CCRODRIG@****.indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Shapechange
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:42:06 EST
> Isn't there a spell that works on non-voluntary targets, and actually
> doesn't allow them to retain human consciousness? Was it only in 1st ed
> Grim? Otherwsie just re-engineer the spell without the voluntary subject
> modifier.
Yes it is called tranform. In one of my campaigns I mistakenly
allowed a PC to use it against a Basalisk, turned it into a cat and then she spell locked
it. The PC used it as a body guard, by taking time and karma to
train the cat/basilisk.
---Sedah Drol
Message no. 18
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:37:46 +0200
According to Phil Smith, at 8:48 on 17 Sep 00, the word on the street
was...

> Where it says "changes target into a normal critter" does that mean only
the
> ones on pg 19 or Critters or are others allowed?

Any non-paranormal critter, IMO. The ones on page 19 of Critters are the
only ones you get stats for, but if you feel up to improvising the game
stats for other animals (ooh, difficult... :) then you can let the PC
change into those, too.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It was a warning shot that missed.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 06:37:59 -0500
To further complicate this, remeber that critter stats can vary a bit,
probably by +/- 50%. I think a mage should be able to turn his troll buddy
into an abnormally large, slow house cat more easily than into a svelt
siamese...

Mongoose
Message no. 20
From: Aristotle antithesis@**********.com
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:41:50 -0400
Mr. Kenson,

I just wanted to thank you for making time to answer my little question.

Thanks,
-- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle
Message no. 21
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:55:55 -0700 (PDT)
> Mr. Kenson,
>
> I just wanted to thank you for making time to
answer my little question.
> -- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle

"Mr." Kenson??

Kiss-ass...

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 22
From: Aristotle antithesis@**********.com
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:23:58 -0400
>>>Doc said:
"Mr." Kenson??

Kiss-ass...


>>>Reply:
*laugh* ..well, I was asking for a favor so I thought I should sound
respectful and stuff.


seeya Doc... um.. Sir. :P
Message no. 23
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Shapechange
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:01:55 -0700 (PDT)
> "Mr." Kenson??
>
> Kiss-ass...
>
>
> >>>Reply:
> *laugh* ..well, I was asking for a favor so I
thought I should sound respectful and stuff.
>
> seeya Doc... um.. Sir. :P

*Doc' falls down laughing...*

I'm afraid it takes more than that to get any special
consideration from me...

You could lick my shoes clean, or clean out my toilet
with a toothbrush. Take your pick. ;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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