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Message no. 1
From: Paul Cummings <100532.621@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shape Change spell
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 13:12:24 -0400
Okay so you can't use Shapechange to turn the gaurd into a sheep (why a
sheep are you not telling us something :)

The alternative is to use Transform It also affects the mind of the
target, so you don't get the sheep running of the the sec room:

sheep: "bahaha bahaha"

guard: "What is it Shep? You want me to follow you?"

It needs to be sustained unless you stun it afterwards.

A way to get round (I am not a munchkin - I am a GM) the difference in
body is to transform into a big critter say a bull, or a donkey. <eg>

Paul Cummings [Fife, Scotland]
Message no. 2
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: Shape Change spell
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 13:59:45 -0400
Steve, you asked for mindless blather, so here you go...

From: Paul Cummings <100532.621@**********.COM>
>Okay so you can't use Shapechange to turn the gaurd into a sheep (why a
>sheep are you not telling us something :)
>The alternative is to use Transform It also affects the mind of the
>target, so you don't get the sheep running of the the sec room:

Of course, you could always blow his head off, but of course mages don't do
that sort of thing... :P (I am in the anti-mage club too)

Wow....someday I have to get some of these books and read them...I only have
SRII, but it's hard to learn and remember all that's in there...or maybe I
should get a game going and _then_ get my players to buy some of them for me...
:)

If someone has, or feels like writing up, a nice, somewhat comprehensive list
of ratings of books for shadowrun, would you send it to me? I have not seen
one in my wanderings on the net, and would like to know which books are worth
their nuyen. :) (I draw smileys without noses, I don't know why...)

I ran out of blathering....
>>>>>> Nate, the mad blatherer...
(Have you ever tried to say blathering five times fast? It's hard.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Actually, my opinions are the same as most of the other people here...
...At least, I think there are other people here...
Message no. 3
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Shape Change spell
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 17:51:39 +1000
Nathan Walker writes:

> If someone has, or feels like writing up, a nice, somewhat comprehensive list
> of ratings of books for shadowrun, would you send it to me? I have not seen
> one in my wanderings on the net, and would like to know which books are worth
> their nuyen. :) (I draw smileys without noses, I don't know why...)

There's such a list in the Shadowrun FAQ which is floating around someplace
I think. How up to date it is I'm not sure, however. Also, finding said FAQ
isn't all that easy - I've seen it a few times at ftp sites, so cerebus and
the other major SR sites would be a good place to start looking.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shape Change spell
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 12:42:44 +0200
>> If someone has, or feels like writing up, a nice, somewhat comprehensive list
>> of ratings of books for shadowrun, would you send it to me? I have not seen
>> one in my wanderings on the net, and would like to know which books are worth
>> their nuyen. :) (I draw smileys without noses, I don't know why...)

I've done an article with short reviews of nearly all current SR books for
NAGEE7, though I could post it here on the list if you would like to see it.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wicked mental dope
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 5
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shape Change spell
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 10:07:45 -0700
The books I use most are the Seattle Sourcebook, Sprawl Sites, Fields of
Fire, and of course SRII. Shadowtech is fun too.

*-------------------------------------------*
|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
|President, |<buug@***.com> |
|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
*-------------------------------------------*
Message no. 6
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shape Change spell
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 15:50:48 -0400
> I've done an article with short reviews of nearly all current SR books for
> NAGEE7, though I could post it here on the list if you would like to see it.

Please do!


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Don't take life too seriously.
My opinions are my opinions. | You will never get out of it
Please don't blame anyone else. | alive." -- (Unknown)
Message no. 7
From: Ian Smith <KildTheCat@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shape Change spell
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:37:58 -0400
>The books I use most are the Seattle Sourcebook, Sprawl >Sites, Fields of
>Fire, and of course SRII. Shadowtech is fun too.

Ditto.
Message no. 8
From: Tim Burke <ranger@********.COM.AU>
Subject: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:36:53 +1000
A question came up on the weekend with our group.
Our Shaman cast Shapechange on himself and took
the form of a tiger.

The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
"Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
by the transformation?"

There were logical arguments for both sides so I
offered to post to ShadowRN to see what the
Prime Runner's replies would net.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Tim Burke,
Brisbane Australia.
ranger@********.com.au
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:46:14 +0100
Tim Burke said on 1:36/20 Jul 98,...

> A question came up on the weekend with our group.
> Our Shaman cast Shapechange on himself and took
> the form of a tiger.
>
> The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
> "Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
> by the transformation?"

In the spell description it explicitly states "This spell does not
transform clothing and equipment." (Grimoire II p. 132). Going
by that, the only way to avoid doing a Hulk impersonation and
ripping all your clothes is to Shapechange into an animal smaller
that you yourself are -- a dog, a sheep, whatever. Changing into
something larger (like a tiger) is bad for your clothes.

I have a player who's now-retired shaman character knew hardly
any spell except a lot of (Critter) Form spells and Shapechange
(Dv might remember this one). He decided not to wear armor
because it would get in the way of him casting the spells on
himself...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"That's IT, lunchbox!!! We'll go to Shermer, Illinois!"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:07:07 -0600
At 01:36 20/07/98 +1000, you wrote:

>The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
>"Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
>by the transformation?"

Re-read the spells description. They don't get transformed, so unless the
play states that he took his clothes off first, I say they get horrible
ripped and torn in the transformation. This means that the team better be
packing extra clothes, although I'm fairly certain that a nude guy is alot
less troubling than a tiger to mose people.. >:)

-Adam
-
< http://www.interware.it/users/adamj / ICQ# 2350330 / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / TSS Productions >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< The Entity responsible for the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball >
Message no. 11
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:24:13 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-19 13:46:02 EDT, you write:

> In the spell description it explicitly states "This spell does not
> transform clothing and equipment." (Grimoire II p. 132). Going
> by that, the only way to avoid doing a Hulk impersonation and
> ripping all your clothes is to Shapechange into an animal smaller
> that you yourself are -- a dog, a sheep, whatever. Changing into
> something larger (like a tiger) is bad for your clothes.

I just allowed a simple modification of the Fashion Spell, transform the
clothes into a collar or such.
Message no. 12
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:48:03 +0000
> The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
> "Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
> by the transformation?"

This has been suitably answered already so I will not..
However, It is this exact problem that I have capitolized on time and
again...Cast shapechange on an enemy making them a bit smaller that
they are supposed to be..then let them get twisted in the clothing
and gear..then drop the spell..They suddenly aren't very much of a
threat at the moment..Although my fav is transform...that way the
animal form freaks...Of flys away..then drop the
spell...Ouch..although the turn 'em into a tuna routine works rather
well too...Darn..it is kinda hard to breath as a tuna [EG]
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Message no. 13
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 18:35:04 -0600
GRANITE Wrote

>> The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
>> "Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
>> by the transformation?"
>
>This has been suitably answered already so I will not..
>However, It is this exact problem that I have capitolized on time and
>again...Cast shapechange on an enemy making them a bit smaller that
>they are supposed to be..then let them get twisted in the clothing
>and gear..then drop the spell..They suddenly aren't very much of a
>threat at the moment..Although my fav is transform...that way the
>animal form freaks...Of flys away..then drop the
>spell...Ouch..although the turn 'em into a tuna routine works rather
>well too...Darn..it is kinda hard to breath as a tuna [EG]


One of my players loved that spell. He's messed up quite a few "non-deadly
plot advancing" encounters with this one. Lets just say that the young
vampire decided to float up and away (in clear LOS) after changing to mist
form, and the jellyfish he became found it hard to dodge the shotgun blast.

Piatro
Message no. 14
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:21:08 -0800
At 7:48 AM -0800 7/19/98, GRANITE wrote:
>> The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
>> "Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
>> by the transformation?"
>
>This has been suitably answered already so I will not..
>However, It is this exact problem that I have capitolized on time and
>again...Cast shapechange on an enemy making them a bit smaller that
>they are supposed to be..then let them get twisted in the clothing
>and gear..then drop the spell..They suddenly aren't very much of a
>threat at the moment..Although my fav is transform...that way the
>animal form freaks...Of flys away..then drop the
>spell...Ouch..although the turn 'em into a tuna routine works rather
>well too...Darn..it is kinda hard to breath as a tuna [EG]

I assume you're using a variant of the book ShapeChange which
requires voluntary subjects?

-Rob
Message no. 15
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:00:04 +0000
> I assume you're using a variant of the book ShapeChange which
> requires voluntary subjects?

It is called Transform..It is about 3 spells below Shapechange in the
GrimmyI... This spell says nothing about voluntary subjects..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Message no. 16
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:39:41 -0800
>> I assume you're using a variant of the book ShapeChange which
>> requires voluntary subjects?
>
>It is called Transform..It is about 3 spells below Shapechange in the
>GrimmyI... This spell says nothing about voluntary subjects..

Can I say "duh?"

"Ud." :)

Didn't see that one. :)

-Rob (Still getting a grip on all the different spells.)
Message no. 17
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 02:32:33 -0500
On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:00:04 +0000 GRANITE <granite@**.NET> writes:
>> I assume you're using a variant of the book ShapeChange which
>> requires voluntary subjects?

>It is called Transform..It is about 3 spells below Shapechange in the
>GrimmyI... This spell says nothing about voluntary subjects..
>--------------------------------GRANITE
<SNIP>

Actually, I was about to say the same thing when I noticed in the orignal
message that you snipped, that the player used Shapechange then the
poster went on to say his/her personal fav was Transform ... I'm guessing
either the player modified the spell or they forgot about the "volountary
subject" bit ...

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:55:25 +0100
Michael vanHulst said on 17:24/19 Jul 98,...

> I just allowed a simple modification of the Fashion Spell, transform the
> clothes into a collar or such.

But that's no fun! It's much more interesting if the character
either ends up with no clothes to wear after dropping the spell, or
have to find somewhere to take off his or her clothes before
starting casting ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sarcasm -- it's a great way to deal.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: Paul Wynter <kazeroth@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 03:36:42 -0700
-----Original Message-----
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell


Michael vanHulst said on 17:24/19 Jul 98,...

>> I just allowed a simple modification of the Fashion Spell, transform the
>> clothes into a collar or such.

>But that's no fun! It's much more interesting if the character
>either ends up with no clothes to wear after dropping the spell, or
>have to find somewhere to take off his or her clothes before
>starting casting ;)



Yes, it can be more fun at times...but generally just for sadistic refs. >;)
Is the game supposed to be fun for just the ref or for everyone, including
the poor players??? (sadism screams: For the ref!!!For the ref!!!).
______________________________________________________
Flappity, floppity, flip,
The mouse on the mobius strip;
The strip revolved, The mouse dissolved
In a chronodimensional skip
Message no. 20
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:49:04 +0000
>...... I'm guessing
> either the player modified the spell or they forgot about the "volountary
> subject" bit ...

Probably...We did however make it resisted..since this is a common
errata item for the spell stuff..dropping the little R..we made it by
WP..although now that I think about it Body might even be a better
thing to resist with...Of course that would have to be natural
without armour...

And then Rob said:
> Can I say "duh?"

I kinda figured it was an oversight... ;)
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Message no. 21
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:24:00 +0200
Tim Burke wrote:

> The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
> "Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
> by the transformation?"
>

Of course it would when he wears them during transformation. A
tiger has not necessarily be bigger than a person but its shape
is another and the clothes wouldn't fit anymore and thus be
ripped.Try to put a t-shirt on a tiger! It wouldn't fit.
And if they don't rip they would hinder him a lot as a tiger and
he wouldn't be able to put them off because tigers can't hold
their paws behind their back!

Gear wouldn't be damaged...why should it?

Blix
Message no. 22
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:50:36 -0300
At 01:36 20/07/98 +1000, you wrote:
>A question came up on the weekend with our group.
>Our Shaman cast Shapechange on himself and took
>the form of a tiger.
>
>The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
>"Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
>by the transformation?"

It's easier to say that the caster "shapechanges" out of his clothes...
He will have to pick them up after he changes back...

Now, one could enchant some clothes to change along with the wearer
(be he a shapeshifter or a mage with Shapechange spell)... If this can be
done to
armor is up to the GM.

Bira
Message no. 23
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:30:08 -0300
At 15:48 19/07/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> The debate that raged for ages afterwards was
>> "Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
>> by the transformation?"
>
>This has been suitably answered already so I will not..
>However, It is this exact problem that I have capitolized on time and
>again...Cast shapechange on an enemy making them a bit smaller that
>they are supposed to be..then let them get twisted in the clothing
>and gear..then drop the spell..They suddenly aren't very much of a
>threat at the moment..Although my fav is transform...that way the
>animal form freaks...Of flys away..then drop the
>spell...Ouch..although the turn 'em into a tuna routine works rather
>well too...Darn..it is kinda hard to breath as a tuna [EG]
>--------------------------------GRANITE
>

If you're a hardcore RNer, you can turn them to carps, instead...

Bira
Message no. 24
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:50:55 +0000
> If you're a hardcore RNer, you can turn them to carps, instead...

I would have except for the +or- 2 to the body of the transformee..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Message no. 25
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 03:42:04 EDT
In a message dated 7/20/1998 5:12:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR writes:

> >"Does the caster's gear and clothes get trashed
> >by the transformation?"
>
> It's easier to say that the caster "shapechanges" out of his clothes...
> He will have to pick them up after he changes back...
>
> Now, one could enchant some clothes to change along with the wearer
> (be he a shapeshifter or a mage with Shapechange spell)... If this can be
> done to
> armor is up to the GM.
>
We've had this in the past, where character that shapechanged/mist formed (ah,
the ancient days...) could "bond" their clothing, which was considered a minor
enchantment, that we never really did write up any real rules for. Basically
the PC spent some karma, someone (the resident magician or enchanter) did the
work (took about a week tops), and then -that- particular item could be
changed whenever the transformation (be it spell of innate ability) took
place.

-K
Message no. 26
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Shapechange Spell
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:11:31 +0000
and thus did Paul Wynter speak on 20 Jul 98 at 3:36:

[losing clothes with shapechange]

> Yes, it can be more fun at times...but generally just for sadistic refs. >;)
> Is the game supposed to be fun for just the ref or for everyone, including
> the poor players??? (sadism screams: For the ref!!!For the ref!!!).

Watch the other players gloat and laugh as one of them ends up butt
naked in the middle of the Renraku Arcology >:>

And what pleasures in live remain if you can't have fun at the
expense of your players? I thought that was the whole idea behind
GM-ing ;)




Martin Steffens
(chimerae@***.ie)
-----------------
Hey Butt-Head, what did people do before they invented TV?
Don't be stupid, Beavis. There's always been TV, there's just more channels now.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Shapechange Spell, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!