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Message no. 1
From: Info Static <RMD57285@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 02:38:08 GMT
For a really reasonable shapeshifter try reading Mavin Manyshapes. There
are three books. I will look up the author and exact titles and post them
later.
Info Static
Message no. 2
From: shelanst@********.com (Tracy Shelanskey)
Subject: shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:04:39 -0600
Hi there! If you do not recognize the name, it's because I'm new to this
list, so bear with me while I ask a few questions....

While web surfing, a friend came across the idea for making shapeshifters
(or were-creatures) as player characters. Has anyone tried this? They
regenerate pretty fast, does it unbalance the game any? Any other pros or
cons you've discovered?

Now for some silly questions about weres. If you were , for example, a
were-tiger (Siberian tiger, that is), female, you would weigh around 500lbs
in your tiger form. In human form it would be considerably less. Where
does the weight go? (I know I'm just making things difficult and this really
doesn't need to affect the game, but I like asking these kinds of
things--drives my GM
crazy :) Also, in SRII, in the critter section under shapeshifters, it says
that your astral form will always show your true nature. If you are in
human form, a mage would see a tiger astrally. What do they see if you are
in tiger form? Do you look human or something else?

My group really gets into the "role-playing" aspect of this game, and this
sounds like it has a lot of potential--assuming *everyone* doesnt' want to
play one.

Later,
Tatjana
Message no. 3
From: Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:23:39 -0600 (CST)
Tracy Shelanskey wrote:
> While web surfing, a friend came across the idea for making shapeshifters
> (or were-creatures) as player characters. Has anyone tried this? They
> regenerate pretty fast, does it unbalance the game any? Any other pros or
> cons you've discovered?

I dunno if they're too unbalanced as PC's if you made them use priority A
for Race (or magic - the idea of a mage/shifter gives me the willies).

I had a werewolf as one of the members of an NPC team of runners, and he
wasn't more effective than the merc or the physical adept. Yes, he took
a great deal of damage (including a mage grounding out spell after spell
from the Astral Plane on it), and kept getting up, but it doesn't have
any ranged attacks, and it's attack didn't do that much damage.

> in your tiger form. In human form it would be considerably less. Where
> does the weight go? (I know I'm just making things difficult and this really

Maybe the Astral Plane? My explanation is "it's magic" and leave it at that.


> that your astral form will always show your true nature. If you are in
> human form, a mage would see a tiger astrally. What do they see if you are
> in tiger form? Do you look human or something else?

You'd see a dual natured tiger. Astral Mages would then start grounding
out spell after spell into you. (Well, that's what our mage did.)

--
Rick Jones Usenet is a way of being annoyed by people you
rick@******.com otherwise never would have met.
Meyrick@***.com -- John J. Kinyon
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/
Message no. 4
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:31:49 -0700 (MST)
Tracy Shelanskey wrote:
|
|Now for some silly questions about weres. If you were , for example, a
|were-tiger (Siberian tiger, that is), female, you would weigh around 500lbs
|in your tiger form. In human form it would be considerably less. Where
|does the weight go? (I know I'm just making things difficult and this really
|doesn't need to affect the game, but I like asking these kinds of
|things--drives my GM

It's some kind of magic - Freddy Mercury. That's the easy answer. The complex
answer *could be*: Conversion of mass to magic energy dissipated into astral
space.

|Also, in SRII, in the critter section under shapeshifters, it says
|that your astral form will always show your true nature. If you are in
|human form, a mage would see a tiger astrally. What do they see if you are
|in tiger form? Do you look human or something else?

"Your astral form will show your true nature" does not necessarily mean
that your true nature will be a tiger if you're a were-tiger. I interprete
it to mean that your true nature is a reflection of your personality and
spirit and strength of will. If your character's true nature is "tiger"
than it would always be "tiger". But it doesn't have to be "tiger"
just
because the character is a were-tiger.

|My group really gets into the "role-playing" aspect of this game, and this
|sounds like it has a lot of potential--assuming *everyone* doesnt' want to
|play one.

I once roleplayed a were-raven in a (whisper)ad&d campaign. It was quite
possibly the best character I ever had. She was a strong willed character
with honor and convictions. She relied on her skills and wit, not her
were-raven invulnerability. Well...she did once, but my GM quickly humbled
me. She charged into a pack of 100 kobolds because she thought they
couldn't hurt her. About 20 of the little guys gang tackled her and
wrestled her sword away, then the four spellcasters they had hid in the
crowd and fired off spells at her. The lesson I learned was -
were-characters can be delt with pretty easily with very little ;) resources.

-David

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Buehrer
mailto:dbuehrer@****.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: "'Spaceman' WD Lee" <seventh@*.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:54:04 -0800 (PST)
On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Tracy Shelanskey wrote:

> While web surfing, a friend came across the idea for making shapeshifters
> (or were-creatures) as player characters. Has anyone tried this? They
> regenerate pretty fast, does it unbalance the game any? Any other pros or
> cons you've discovered?

Ok, plug for a published adv. Total Eclipse includes a character
by the name of Lupus, a werewolf, with stats in PC/human format. He's not
very powerful as he's a movie producer, but it gave me a lot of ideas on
how to implement weres into viable characters rather than mindles beasts.
If you need a copy, email me and I'll send you the info.

The Spaceman |Remember, Abraham Lincoln didn't die
spaced@*.washington.edu |in vain, he died in Washington, D.C.
seventh@*.washington.edu | -Firesign Theatre
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced
Message no. 6
From: pbailey@***.ipswichcity.qld.gov.au (Peter Bailey)
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 07:58:50
Hi Tracy,

> Hi there! If you do not recognize the name, it's because I'm new to this
> list, so bear with me while I ask a few questions....

In case no-one has said it, Welcome!

> While web surfing, a friend came across the idea for making shapeshifters
> (or were-creatures) as player characters. Has anyone tried this? They
> regenerate pretty fast, does it unbalance the game any? Any other pros or
> cons you've discovered?

Yes, they regenerate pretty damn fast which makes them very difficult to
kill. They are also dual natured which means they also have an astral point
of view for everything they are looking at. They are also _VERY_ unusual,
and thus attract a lot of attention if anyone knows they are about. For
example, Corp sec-mage likes to use were-thing for something to ground area
effect spells into, corp shamans throw spirit after spirit at were-thing to
keep it busy, etc. These things can be killed if they are unlucky so if a
sec-team knows there is a were in the party, expect the were to take most
of the punishment, and keep taking punishment even after it goes down.

> Now for some silly questions about weres. If you were , for example, a
> were-tiger (Siberian tiger, that is), female, you would weigh around 500lbs
> in your tiger form. In human form it would be considerably less. Where
> does the weight go? (I know I'm just making things difficult and this really
> doesn't need to affect the game, but I like asking these kinds of
> things--drives my GM

Utterly irrelevant as far as I am concerned, sorry.

> crazy :) Also, in SRII, in the critter section under shapeshifters, it says
> that your astral form will always show your true nature. If you are in
> human form, a mage would see a tiger astrally. What do they see if you are
> in tiger form? Do you look human or something else?

You look like an awakened tiger.

> My group really gets into the "role-playing" aspect of this game, and this
> sounds like it has a lot of potential--assuming *everyone* doesnt' want to
> play one.

The role-playing side is fun, you have to remember that these things are
animals that can also be human sometimes, _NOT_ the other way round. But if
they start to be a bother, introduce a substantial bounty on were-creatures
into the game. They start becoming unattractive at that point.
--
---
Internet: pbailey@*****.ipswich.gil.com.au Fidonet: 3:640/281.3

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Message no. 7
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:45:03 +0100
Tracy Shelanskey said on 18 Jan 96...

> Hi there! If you do not recognize the name, it's because I'm new to this
> list, so bear with me while I ask a few questions....

Welcome :)

> While web surfing, a friend came across the idea for making shapeshifters
> (or were-creatures) as player characters. Has anyone tried this? They
> regenerate pretty fast, does it unbalance the game any? Any other pros or
> cons you've discovered?

There's rules/guidelines for this on Paolo's web page (see the FAQ for the
URL to the page). Somewhere in the Magic section, I think.

> Now for some silly questions about weres. If you were , for example, a
> were-tiger (Siberian tiger, that is), female, you would weigh around 500lbs
> in your tiger form. In human form it would be considerably less. Where
> does the weight go?

It's magic, so the extra, say, 175 kg of body mass just disappears. If you
intend on playing a shapeshifter, I'd advise you to read the Striper books
by Nyx Smith-- Striper: Assassin and Who Hunts The Hunter (although
opinions vary about how good they are on this list, I think they're at
least a must-read if you want to have shapeshifter PCs).

> Also, in SRII, in the critter section under shapeshifters, it says
> that your astral form will always show your true nature. If you are in
> human form, a mage would see a tiger astrally. What do they see if you are
> in tiger form? Do you look human or something else?

A human, I think. Or maybe you can always see both -- a tiger superimposed
over a human or something.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
So wasteful. So foolish.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 8
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:42:29 -0600
At 01:58 PM 1/18/96 -0500, Tatjana wrote:
>Hi there! If you do not recognize the name, it's because I'm new to this
>list, so bear with me while I ask a few questions....

Heyas :)

>[snipped questions about weres as PC's]

Haven't tried it myself, but the list worked the subject over fairly
thoroughly. My personal view on the whole thing is to let it happen, but
make the character take A as race and B as magic to be a shapeshifter.
Start off by only letting one player be a werewolf. Give him/her all the
abilities of standard weres (with stats and skills per the character) and
see how far it unbalances the game, if at all.

>[snipped the "where does the weight go" question]

I'd say the same for that as I would for the shapechange spell, the mana
handles it.

>[snipped "what's a were look like astrally"]

It looks like a dual-natured wolf/tiger/bear/whatever.

>My group really gets into the "role-playing" aspect of this game, and this
>sounds like it has a lot of potential--assuming *everyone* doesnt' want to
>play one.

Like I said, make the character up and let one person try it out. Or maybe
make the were a sort of communal character so everyone who wants to play it
can do so. They simply don't play their regular character when they play
the were for that session. If it works well in your game, then more power
to you.

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Bob "TopCat" Ooton <topcat@******.net>
------------------------------------------------------------
"Outside they are gathering and their fangs are bared, for
the bigger your fangs, the bigger your share."
-- Sol Invictus "Here Am I"
------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 18:12:56 +0000 (GMT)
On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, Tracy Shelanskey wrote:

> While web surfing, a friend came across the idea for making shapeshifters
> (or were-creatures) as player characters. Has anyone tried this? They
> regenerate pretty fast, does it unbalance the game any? Any other pros or
> cons you've discovered?

If possible you might want to check out, WWGS' Werewolf:The Apocalypse,
that gives ideas on how to balance the little critters; of course it
would mean changing teh werecritter rules per SR, but its your story.

The same thing can be done with vamps as PCs, using V:tM I've made
vampires much more varied and feared -because they don't all havbe the
same powers.


The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun
Message no. 10
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 12:15 EST
>Hi there! If you do not recognize the name, it's because I'm new to this
>list, so bear with me while I ask a few questions....

Hello and welcome.

>
>While web surfing, a friend came across the idea for making shapeshifters
>(or were-creatures) as player characters. Has anyone tried this? They
>regenerate pretty fast, does it unbalance the game any? Any other pros or
>cons you've discovered?

In a game that I played in and in games I used to run, Shapeshifters
characters were allowed. As far as creating one goes, we used a point
system (which I would be more than happy to email to anyone who doesn't
have. It has already been posted on the list once.) rather than Fasa's
priority system. But if you were to use Fasa's priority system I would say
priority A in magic with no spell casting ability. The magic is being a
paranormal creature. Note we also allowed vampires. In our games
regeneration was only allowed when the shapeshifter had all physical
condition monitors filled. Regeneration ability is the best pro, although
one might say being dual is good but the only disadvantage with that is that
the character is groundable.


>
>Now for some silly questions about weres. If you were , for example, a
>were-tiger (Siberian tiger, that is), female, you would weigh around 500lbs
>in your tiger form. In human form it would be considerably less. Where
>does the weight go? (I know I'm just making things difficult and this really
>doesn't need to affect the game, but I like asking these kinds of
>things--drives my GM crazy :)

The weight is changed by magic.

>Also, in SRII, in the critter section under shapeshifters, it says
>that your astral form will always show your true nature. If you are in
>human form, a mage would see a tiger astrally. What do they see if you are
>in tiger form? Do you look human or something else?

Yes, if the shapshifters animal form is in the physical, the human form is
in the astral. I use to play a Shapeshifter/bear and had problems with
having the right form in the right spot. If I had to resist physical damage
I would be human in the physical, If I had to resist astral damage I would
be human in the astral.

>
>My group really gets into the "role-playing" aspect of this game, and this
>sounds like it has a lot of potential--assuming *everyone* doesnt' want to
>play one.
We only allowed one of each paranormal type. In other words one
shapeshifter and/or one vampire, etc. That way we didn't have 3
shapeshifters, five vampires, etc. to deal with.\
---Sedah Drol
--
Home page: Better Homes and Gardens page 36 volume 3 March 1995:)(sorry
couln't resist)
---
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
---
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Message no. 11
From: Paul@********.demon.co.uk (Paul Jonathan Adam)
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 08:41:21 GMT
> Hi there! If you do not recognize the name, it's because I'm new to this
> list, so bear with me while I ask a few questions....
>
> While web surfing, a friend came across the idea for making shapeshifters
> (or were-creatures) as player characters. Has anyone tried this? They
> regenerate pretty fast, does it unbalance the game any? Any other pros or
> cons you've discovered?

My wife's PC is a leopard shapeshifter. We rewrote the rules somewhat,
so we had a 'physical' explanation of how the shapeshifting worked and
because we felt that the 'book' regeneration made a PC too powerful.

Rules-wise, she takes damage normally, but Physical turns directly to
Stun at the end of each turn: pain, shock, blood loss, et cetera. Her
body temperature rises dramatically as she heals damage, and if she takes
more than ten boxes of Physical damage (including Stun overflowing) in any
combat turn she has to make a Body test, target of the boxes over ten
she took. No successes = dead from heart failure or something similar.

Silver causes Physical damage that doesn't regenerate, but has to heal
normally. She doesn't like silver.

The rationale is a hyperactive blood: symbiotes on amphetamines, if you
like. Every red cell is a symbiote, restoring her body to its 'template'
form: either leopard, or human, or now (for roleplaying effect, it
doesn't provide any benefit) a sort of half-and-half hybrid.

We allow cyberware, but only betaware or better: it's got to be closely
coded to your body, or it gets rejected. Ditto, bioware must be cultured.

End result, she's very hard to kill, but she runs up big numbers of stun
damage when things go wrong: and, of course, you can't banish that with
a Heal spell. It seems to balance out nicely.

One point: if you want to play a shapeshifter, learn a *lot* about the
animal in question. Shapeshifters aren't human and have a very unique
perspective on the world.

> Now for some silly questions about weres. If you were , for example, a
> were-tiger (Siberian tiger, that is), female, you would weigh around 500lbs
> in your tiger form. In human form it would be considerably less. Where
> does the weight go? (I know I'm just making things difficult and this really
> doesn't need to affect the game, but I like asking these kinds of
> things--drives my GM

Magic. Astral space. It hides in Timbuktu. It goes the same place your
clothes do when a Dragon quickens a spell on you, making your clothing
vanish and reappear as needed (and even though the Dragon was a coyote
shaman, they hardly ever vanish at the wrong time, or reappear in rather
different colours and styles...)

> crazy :) Also, in SRII, in the critter section under shapeshifters, it says
> that your astral form will always show your true nature. If you are in
> human form, a mage would see a tiger astrally. What do they see if you are
> in tiger form? Do you look human or something else?

We run it as a sort of half-and-half hybrid: Egyptian gods provide a good
example. Bast makes quite a good feline shapeshifter's astral form.

> My group really gets into the "role-playing" aspect of this game, and this
> sounds like it has a lot of potential--assuming *everyone* doesnt' want to
> play one.

It adds a lot, but beware anyone trying to max out the rules. If the player
wants to do it because they want the role-playing challenge, they'll
voluntarily handicap the character to the point where the GM will almost
force things like the Dragon's spell onto them.

--
"When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him." <R.A. Lafferty>

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 12
From: shelanst@********.com (Tracy Shelanskey)
Subject: Re: shapeshifters
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 09:17:23 -0600
>> My group really gets into the "role-playing" aspect of this game, and
this
>> sounds like it has a lot of potential--assuming *everyone* doesnt' want to
>> play one.
>
>It adds a lot, but beware anyone trying to max out the rules. If the player
>wants to do it because they want the role-playing challenge, they'll
>voluntarily handicap the character to the point where the GM will almost
>force things like the Dragon's spell onto them.
>
>Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
>
>
This is it exactly! The lady in question was quite prepared to find herself
buck naked and having to scramble to cover if she *had* to (what do tigers
care for clothes, its a human convention, after all.) Of course, when the
bullets fly, a long armored coat is mighty helpfull!

Tatjana
Message no. 13
From: Andreas Hausjell <a.h.a@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shapeshifters
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:01:10 +0200
> In my games, I prefer awakened creatures to be something unusual. Having
one
> constantly in the party reduces them to the level of commonplace. As a
> result, much of their mystique is lost. (IMO of course).
>
>
> --
> You are www.primenet.com/~bkern
> What you do ICQ: 879171
> When it counts. Pariah(-ic)
> -The Masao
>
I share your opinion. Once I played a vampire-elfen-lady (with owl totem,
yes she is shamanistic)
I played her only in one game (and not the whole run), coz a policeofficer
shot at me and I lost my left leg. But it was great and absolutly
new/uncommon.
( i didnt thought of banghes at that time)
cu Scapegoat
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Message no. 14
From: Beren-27335@***.net Beren-27335@***.net
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:01:24 +0100 (MET)
Since we're on the topic of shapeshifters: Does anyone here know if
shapeshifters can partially shift themselves? Like, a human with tiger claws or a
tiger head?

BTW, Greetings everybody. I'm the new kid in the neighborhood.

Beren

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Message no. 15
From: Paul J. Adam ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:27:36 +0000
In article <4335.975607284@www28.gmx.net>;, Beren-27335@***.net writes
>Since we're on the topic of shapeshifters: Does anyone here know if
>shapeshifters can partially shift themselves? Like, a human with tiger claws or
>a
>tiger head?

We allow it on a Willpower (4) roll.

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 16
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:25:59 -0500
From: "Paul J. Adam" <ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Shapeshifters


> , Beren-27335@***.net writes
> >Since we're on the topic of shapeshifters: Does anyone here know if
> >shapeshifters can partially shift themselves? Like, a human with tiger
claws or
> >a
> >tiger head?
>
> We allow it on a Willpower (4) roll.

And actually, the idea of having a "partial change" is something that a lot
of people enjoy having in their games for the sake "coolness". Paul's idea
is a decent one IMO, but because of its simplicity, it may leave too much
open for interpretation for game groups that want to "try this" and then
take the idea further than perhaps his group does.

For instance, the idea of a "partial change" based upon Willpower to me
would indicate the shapeshifter in question is "giving a display", but not
really getting into a combat situation (aka; having the claws serve in much
the same way that cyberspurs and/or hand-razors do for the cyber types). I
know that some gaming groups have developed massive house rules on the
consideration, while others simply believe it would be far to much a
"mimicking" of other game systems (White Wolf's games collection comes to
the front of mind for many).

Something we have done, as a bit more detailed alternative that Paul's
suggestion, is to allow for the shapeshifter character to develop "edges"
that account for the development of advanced control over their
animal/humanoid forms. Basically, by the book rules there is no "half-form"
or "crinos-form" (did I get that right?), but the book rules do not really
count if the game group as a whole believes it would add to their overall
flavor/enjoyment.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
THREEH.COM (www.threeh.com)
Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)

>
> --
> Paul J. Adam
>
>
>
Message no. 17
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:49:18 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: Beren-27335@***.net <Beren-27335@***.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Friday, December 01, 2000 5:01 AM
Subject: Shapeshifters


>Since we're on the topic of shapeshifters: Does anyone here know if
>shapeshifters can partially shift themselves? Like, a human with tiger
claws or a
>tiger head?
>


For me, you have to ask why the shape shifter takes human form. After all,
they aren't people that turn into animals, but vice versa. The most sensible
reason for me is that shape shifters are predators of humanity, except
possibly wereseals. There are insects that can mimic exactly the scent
markers on ants, so that they can stroll into the nest and gobble up as many
ants as they like (even though they don't look anything like ants, ants
don't go by their pretty hopeless eyesight much). I think that shifters can
take human form for exactly the same reason, to be able to stroll into a
human enclave undetected and, as long as they are careful, get quite a few
meals before having to move on. This is why all shifters are human in shape,
humans are for now by far the most populous of the races.
So, if the human form is nothing but a disguise, why would the shifter want
to stay human except for small body parts? Raw instinct would tell them that
they are either in sheeps clothing or in their natural form, combining the
two would rather ruin the effect of the disguise.
Besides that, you have to think about how the change works. My theory is
that the shifter has two astral emplates, that of a human, and that of an
animal. The actual body is amorphous, and whichever emlate is chosen, the
body pours into it like a jelly mould. This explains why you can always spot
a shifter astrally (its alternative emplate is in the astral plane while the
active one is in the physical), and why they heal so fast (the emplate is of
a healthy person/beast, not one with bullet holes in it). If this is the
case, then it wouldn't really be possible to change only a hand, because the
emplates are not modular.
As cool as a 'crinos' form would be, I wouldn't allow it in my games. After
all, do you really want the shifter character to be even tougher?
Message no. 18
From: JLantrip@******.COM JLantrip@******.COM
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:06:40 -0700
>The most sensible reason for me is that shape shifters are predators of
humanity, except
>possibly wereseals.

I can't think of a shifter better suited to be a predator of
humanity...after all, if you had a seal's racial memory, wouldn't *you*
want to go out and club some humans? ;)

I wonder if we're going to see more stuff in TBSSBotN regarding
lycanthropes. I'd certainly like to do/see soemthing along the lines of a
HMHVV that causes lycanthropy in some way, shape or form. I can't think of
anything more fun to infect some of my players with. Although, I can see
problems there...after all, who wants their troll-heavy-weapons-backup guy
to suddenly lose it in the middle of a run (with a full moon up) and turn
into a ravening troll-sized dire wolf...?

--J
Message no. 19
From: John Jacobsma john@********.net
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 21:12:29 -0600
Hello all,

It's been quite a few months since I actually posted anything, but I've been faithfully
lurking. The recent discussion of shapeshifters caught my eye, since I GM a group that
includes an albino weretiger Leopard shaman. (I know, I know: power gaming munchkin
extraordinaire.) It's been okay so far, but I'm getting a little fed up with the player
not playing the character as some kind of sentient beast who can take the form of a
human. I don't really care how he interprets that, but I DO NOT want him played as a
human who can take the form of a tiger. So I've been punishing the character in ways that
remind the player he is an animal, but so far, it has not worked. I'm also a little
ticked at the other players for having their characters treat the weretiger like just
another member of the team.

But that's not why I'm writing. Some of the other players have started to make noises to
the effect that it's not so much fun to run alongside a character who is virtually
unkillable, and guess what? I think they're right. So, some game system changes are
coming to the way regeneration works, and I wanted to say thanks for the several good
ideas already posted.

But that's also not the primary reason I decided to break out of lurk mode. In the
discussions so far, everyone makes the assumtion that stun damage regenerates the same
way physical damage does. Why? I see absolutely no reason to make that assumption, based
on the rules as published.

Just curious.

--
ttfn,
John Jacobsma <john@********.net>

For geek code & PGP keys, visit my web site: http://www.jacobsma.net/

It is as morally bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so long as it makes you
feel good, as it is not to care how you got your money as long as you have got it.
-- Edmund Way Teale, Circle of the Seasons, 1950
Message no. 20
From: Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 02:43:43 -0600
One interesting thing about "Bishop" (the tag my wolf shapeshifter was
given) was his view on restaurants. The first time he ate with the team, it
was an expense-accounted meal. All Bishop knew was that if you said you
wanted meat, you got meat. So he ate a lot of it... he ate a good three or
four steaks before anyone asked him why he was eating so much (and they were
incredibly lucky he decided to use utensils....). His reply? He didn't
know when eating would be this good again, so he thought to gorge while he
could. They had to explain to him, patiently, that food was plentiful so
long as you had money. He didn't need to eat until he was sick, because
there would be food again later. I'm not entirely sure he believed them...
Message no. 21
From: Paul J. Adam ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 13:16:58 +0000
In article <003b01c05b17$6543ee20$5b1586cb@********>, Simon and Fiona
<sfuller@******.com.au> writes
>For me, you have to ask why the shape shifter takes human form. After all,
>they aren't people that turn into animals, but vice versa.

And who says this is the truth? :)

Shapeshifters born animal and trying to merge with (or prey upon)
humanity stand out. Shapeshifters born human... have considerable
advantages in avoiding identification.

>The most sensible
>reason for me is that shape shifters are predators of humanity, except
>possibly wereseals.

Given how reluctant most predatory animals are to turn man-eater (it's
the domain of the sick and the lame that can't catch better game) I
don't really buy this explanation.


--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 22
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:20:48 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jacobsma" <john@********.net>


> Hello all,
>
> It's been quite a few months since I actually
posted anything, but I've been faithfully
> lurking. The recent discussion of shapeshifters
caught my eye, since I GM a group that
> includes an albino weretiger Leopard shaman. (I
know, I know: power gaming munchkin
> extraordinaire.) It's been okay so far, but I'm
getting a little fed up with the player
> not playing the character as some kind of
sentient beast who can take the form of a
> human. I don't really care how he interprets
that, but I DO NOT want him played as a
> human who can take the form of a tiger. So I've
been punishing the character in ways that
> remind the player he is an animal, but so far,
it has not worked. I'm also a little
> ticked at the other players for having their
characters treat the weretiger like just
> another member of the team.
>
> But that's not why I'm writing. Some of the
other players have started to make noises to
> the effect that it's not so much fun to run
alongside a character who is virtually
> unkillable, and guess what? I think they're
right. So, some game system changes are
> coming to the way regeneration works, and I
wanted to say thanks for the several good
> ideas already posted.

Hmm, have you considered one of those hunting
mission run (?!?) for your game. In this case a
big game hunter has decided that the runner
(weretiger) would add a valuable pelt to his
collection, or, the pelt would make an aweful lot
of cred to the right enchanter's for enchanting
purposes. So the hunter hires himself some muscle
for protection and starts stalking the runner.
Bringing along his trusty sports rifle (causes
less damage to the pelt, hopefully) loaded with
some special bullets. In this case he is using
gel-rounds which have a silver-nitrate compound
inside the gel, or perhaps the compound happens to
be inside dart-bullets, ready for injection
immediately upon striking the weretiger. The
silver damage would not be regenerable at all.

Also, ask him if he has gotten his rabies shots.

> But that's also not the primary reason I decided
to break out of lurk mode. In the
> discussions so far, everyone makes the assumtion
that stun damage regenerates the same
> way physical damage does. Why? I see absolutely
no reason to make that assumption, based
> on the rules as published.
>
> Just curious.

I agree with you completely ... stun damage should
not regenerate at all ... it's the one balance to
a character with regen ... you can knock them
unconscious and then do whatever you want to them.

And getting back to the hunter thing ... seeing as
the character happens to be an albino, which are
rare to begin with ... the weretiger would fetch
an excellent amount of cred as a pelt for some
very rich person ...

Enjoy,
-Herc

> --
> ttfn,
> John Jacobsma <john@********.net>
>
> For geek code & PGP keys, visit my web site:
http://www.jacobsma.net/
>
> It is as morally bad not to care whether a thing
is true or not, so long as it makes you
> feel good, as it is not to care how you got your
money as long as you have got it.
> -- Edmund Way Teale, Circle of the Seasons,
1950
Message no. 23
From: jacobsma@*******.net jacobsma@*******.net
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:47:01 -0600 (CST)
"Herc" <airwisp@******************.com> asked:
>
> Hmm, have you considered one of those hunting
> mission run (?!?) for your game. In this case a
> big game hunter has decided that the runner
> (weretiger) would add a valuable pelt to his
> collection, or, the pelt would make an aweful lot
> of cred to the right enchanter's for enchanting
> purposes. So the hunter hires himself some muscle
> for protection and starts stalking the runner.
> Bringing along his trusty sports rifle (causes
> less damage to the pelt, hopefully) loaded with
> some special bullets. In this case he is using
> gel-rounds which have a silver-nitrate compound
> inside the gel, or perhaps the compound happens to
> be inside dart-bullets, ready for injection
> immediately upon striking the weretiger. The
> silver damage would not be regenerable at all.

Funny you should mention it. November's run was the first time someone
has tried hunting the weretiger. He wanted to take him alive, and he
failed pretty miserably. Now that the weretiger has become a maneater,
more serious hunters will eventually follow. <evil GM grin>

--
ttfn,
John Jacobsma <john@********.net>

For geek code & PGP keys, visit my web site: http://www.jacobsma.net/

It is as morally bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so
long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got your
money as long as you have got it.
-- Edmund Way Teale, Circle of the Seasons, 1950
Message no. 24
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 01:05:23 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: <jacobsma@*******.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Cc: <john@********.net>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Shapeshifters


> "Herc" <airwisp@******************.com> asked:
> >
> > Hmm, have you considered one of those hunting
> > mission run (?!?) for your game. In this case
a
> > big game hunter has decided that the runner
> > (weretiger) would add a valuable pelt to his
> > collection, or, the pelt would make an aweful
lot
> > of cred to the right enchanter's for
enchanting
> > purposes. So the hunter hires himself some
muscle
> > for protection and starts stalking the runner.
> > Bringing along his trusty sports rifle (causes
> > less damage to the pelt, hopefully) loaded
with
> > some special bullets. In this case he is
using
> > gel-rounds which have a silver-nitrate
compound
> > inside the gel, or perhaps the compound
happens to
> > be inside dart-bullets, ready for injection
> > immediately upon striking the weretiger. The
> > silver damage would not be regenerable at all.
>
> Funny you should mention it. November's run was
the first time someone
> has tried hunting the weretiger. He wanted to
take him alive, and he
> failed pretty miserably. Now that the weretiger
has become a maneater,
> more serious hunters will eventually follow.
<evil GM grin>
>
> --
> ttfn,
> John Jacobsma <john@********.net>

Here's something for you to keep in mind ...

During the time that the person is being digested
within his/her stomach ... those body pieces/meat
could count as ritual links for the purposes of a
ritual ...

A ritual team sits by nice and neat waiting for
someone they have samples on to be eaten
(expendable security works well for this sort of
thing) ... once this happens they cast some sort
of spell ... perhaps mind probe on a very subtle
level ...

They gather all sorts of information on the tiger
... like accounts ... friends ... things like that
...

And then they begin to ruin the tiger's life ...

Or they could just as simply just fry the sucker
...

Take your pick ...

-Herc
Message no. 25
From: max.trebilcock@******.net max.trebilcock@******.net
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:21:32 +0330
Hi List,
Just catching up with my mail, on the subject of Shapeshifters I
had a Shifter in my Campaign who was played fairly well.

He did possess a Were Form as an Edge (We used these Edges
as a form of Shifter Initiation), however within this form he could'nt
access his Regeneration due to the Metaphysical Stress of
maintaining the form.

As a general rule I do not allow Shapeshifter Magicians.

Just my two pennies worth.

Max


Visit The Path Of The Arcane:
< http:\\freespace.virgin.net\max.trebilcock\max1.htm >
Message no. 26
From: Chipeloi chipeloi@***.nl
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:50:41 +0100
In the asylum, jacobsma@*******.net whispered in the corridors:


>
> Funny you should mention it. November's run was the first time someone
> has tried hunting the weretiger. He wanted to take him alive, and he
> failed pretty miserably. Now that the weretiger has become a maneater,
> more serious hunters will eventually follow. <evil GM grin>


Chip looks to the header of the page and the bottum...

"Hmm i thought i heard gurth smile..."

(and yes i can hear gurth smile, i trained on it becose if he begins
to smile caracters start dropping dead =)






--
>If you thought Chipeloi was crazy just wait till you meet me !
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jamz)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Fri May 25 18:15:00 2001
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0E53E.61E0F640
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So, using SR3 Companion rules, can a MetaHuman (Or MetaVarient) be a shapeshifter? Using
the point system, one could easily pay the points for both but the text refers to
"Human" form only. Would you apply the Shapeshifter Racial mods AND the
metahuman mods?

Or is there any fluff text that infers that ONLY "Humans" are shapeshifters?
(Well, not human but human forms anyways...)

A Troll shapeshifting fox...that's something I'd have to see ;)


Jamz

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0E53E.61E0F640
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"
http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2869" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So, using SR3 Companion rules, can a
MetaHuman (Or
MetaVarient) be a shapeshifter? Using the point system, one could easily pay the
points for both but the text refers to "Human" form only. Would you apply the
Shapeshifter Racial mods AND the metahuman mods?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Or is there any fluff text that infers
that ONLY
"Humans" are shapeshifters? (Well, not human but human forms
anyways...)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A Troll shapeshifting fox...that's
something I'd
have to see ;)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Jamz</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0E53E.61E0F640--
Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Simon and Fiona)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat May 26 00:45:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Jamz <JamzTheMan@****.com>
To: Shadowrun Mailing List <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, May 26, 2001 8:21 AM
Subject: Shapeshifters


>So, using SR3 Companion rules, can a MetaHuman (Or MetaVarient) be a
>shapeshifter? Using the point system, one could easily pay the points for
both but the >text refers to "Human" form only. Would you apply the
Shapeshifter Racial mods AND >the metahuman mods?


Lets hope that it is humans only, otherwise you'd have some shocking abuses
of the system. For justification, think of it as shapeshifters being animals
that have evloved to eat humans, and the perfect way to do that is to be
able to look like a human and live in their cities (there are beetles and
spiders that mimic ants for this exact purpose). Humans are still the
dominant metatype by a long stretch, so they don't try to look like elves.
Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Allen Smith)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat May 26 04:20:01 2001
On May 26, 12:58am, Simon and Fiona wrote:
> From: Jamz <JamzTheMan@****.com>
> >So, using SR3 Companion rules, can a MetaHuman (Or MetaVarient) be
> >a shapeshifter? Using the point system, one could easily pay the
> >points for both but the text refers to "Human" form only. Would you
> >apply the Shapeshifter Racial mods AND the metahuman mods?
>
>
> Lets hope that it is humans only, otherwise you'd have some shocking
> abuses of the system.

Agreed.

> For justification, think of it as shapeshifters being animals that
> have evloved to eat humans, and the perfect way to do that is to be
> able to look like a human and live in their cities (there are
> beetles and spiders that mimic ants for this exact purpose). Humans
> are still the dominant metatype by a long stretch, so they don't try
> to look like elves.

Umm... the problem being that the last time the mana was high enough
to allow for Shapeshifters, it was also high enough to have lots of
metatypes running around - Barsaive in Earthdawn has more orks than
humans, and _twice_ as many dwarves as humans... If you want to put it
in game terms, it's probably more a matter of humans being more
variable (and thus easier for a shapeshifter to behave like one).

Yours,

-Allen

--
Allen Smith easmith@********.rutgers.edu
Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Patrick Goodman)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat May 26 09:35:00 2001
Please don't use HTML. It's a pain in the ass.

> From: Jamz
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 7:16 PM

> So, using SR3 Companion rules, can a MetaHuman (Or MetaVarient) be a
> shapeshifter?

No, since the shapeshifter rules specifically state that shapers are animals
that can assume a human shape, not humans (or metahumans) who can assume
animal shapes. They aren't people turning into critters; they're critters
turning into other critters that look human. They aren't human at all.

> Or is there any fluff text that infers that ONLY "Humans" are
shapeshifters?
> (Well, not human but human forms anyways...)

You mean besides the rules themselves? Nope.
Message no. 31
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ahrain Drigar)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat May 26 12:35:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon and Fiona <sfuller@******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Shapeshifters


> >So, using SR3 Companion rules, can a MetaHuman (Or MetaVarient) be a
> >shapeshifter? Using the point system, one could easily pay the points for
> both but the >text refers to "Human" form only. Would you apply the
> Shapeshifter Racial mods AND >the metahuman mods?

I play it where they can take on other forms depending on the geographic
location they are from.

Now, as for Meta stat mods? No way. The animals shifting into a
(meta)human form is just that, a form. Shapeshifters are a race unto
themselves and as such have their own racial mods. Remember they are
animals that assume a human form, not the other way around. Using this many
wouldn't try to "infiltrate" a Troll society doe to "blending in"
problems
with stats. Bear would probably be the main ones to pull it off. Foxes and
cats on the other hand would do very well in elven dominated ares.

> Lets hope that it is humans only, otherwise you'd have some shocking
abuses
> of the system. For justification, think of it as shapeshifters being
animals
> that have evloved to eat humans, and the perfect way to do that is to be
> able to look like a human and live in their cities (there are beetles and
> spiders that mimic ants for this exact purpose). Humans are still the
> dominant metatype by a long stretch, so they don't try to look like elves.

Now, assuming this train of thought, what about areas that are predominately
Metahuman? If blending in is the main concern, then in an area that is 90%
elven wouldn't they look elven? I would think so, myself.

Ahrain
Message no. 32
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat May 26 17:15:10 2001
On Sat, 26 May 2001 04:17:31 -0400 "Allen Smith"
<easmith@********.rutgers.edu> writes:
<SNIP>
> Umm... the problem being that the last time the mana was high
> enough
> to allow for Shapeshifters, it was also high enough to have lots of
> metatypes running around - Barsaive in Earthdawn has more orks than
> humans, and _twice_ as many dwarves as humans... If you want to put
> it
> in game terms, it's probably more a matter of humans being more
> variable (and thus easier for a shapeshifter to behave like one).

That was in Barsaive, a relatively small portion of the globe. Barsaive
also happens to be the location of the Dwarven Kingdom of Throal. In
other areas, that may not be the case ... Thera, for example, will not
have large numbers of dominant non-humans ... Although, mutants abound
and all, so there is no reason to say Bob the Shapeshifting Bear Bear
Shaman looks like an Ork or Troll when in human form...

*looks at another list.member*
Wonder what would the stats be for a Bull shapeshifter ...

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 33
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Allen Smith)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat May 26 19:45:01 2001
On May 26, 9:45am, Patrick Goodman wrote:
> Please don't use HTML. It's a pain in the ass.

Agreed.

> > From: Jamz
> > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 7:16 PM
>
> > So, using SR3 Companion rules, can a MetaHuman (Or MetaVarient) be a
> > shapeshifter?
>
> No, since the shapeshifter rules specifically state that shapers are animals
> that can assume a human shape, not humans (or metahumans) who can assume
> animal shapes. They aren't people turning into critters; they're critters
> turning into other critters that look human. They aren't human at all.

This does bring up the possibility of a shifter that shifted into
something that looked like a non-human metahuman. This wouldn't
overall involve any stat changes, however, although I can see
arguments on the Troll dermal armor and the Dwarf running
modifier. Possibly require the first to be done via the Toughness
Edge, and make the latter a Flaw?

Yours,

-Allen

--
Allen Smith easmith@********.rutgers.edu
Message no. 34
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Allen Smith)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Sat May 26 20:15:01 2001
On May 26, 5:27pm, dghost@****.com wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2001 04:17:31 -0400 "Allen Smith"
> <easmith@********.rutgers.edu> writes:
> <SNIP>
> > Umm... the problem being that the last time the mana was high
> > enough to allow for Shapeshifters, it was also high enough to have
> > lots of metatypes running around - Barsaive in Earthdawn has more
> > orks than humans, and _twice_ as many dwarves as humans... If you
> > want to put it in game terms, it's probably more a matter of
> > humans being more variable (and thus easier for a shapeshifter to
> > behave like one).
>
> That was in Barsaive, a relatively small portion of the globe. Barsaive
> also happens to be the location of the Dwarven Kingdom of Throal.

Yes, but that doesn't explain the high number of orks.... who also
seem to be rather common in other areas (Marac, for instance). Unlike
many of the other races, they don't have any reproductive problems.

> In other areas, that may not be the case ... Thera, for example, will not
> have large numbers of dominant non-humans

While it indeed appears that the only race in Thera that's both
dominant and common is human, orks may well be more common, and many
of the other races appear at least as dominant.

> ... Although, mutants abound and all, so there is no reason to say
> Bob the Shapeshifting Bear Bear Shaman looks like an Ork or Troll
> when in human form...

Agreed.

-Allen

--
Allen Smith easmith@********.rutgers.edu
Message no. 35
From: shadowrn@*********.com (JamzTheMan)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu May 31 10:35:01 2001
> > >So, using SR3 Companion rules, can a MetaHuman (Or MetaVarient) be a
> > >shapeshifter? Using the point system, one could easily pay the points
for
> > both but the >text refers to "Human" form only. Would you apply the
> > Shapeshifter Racial mods AND >the metahuman mods?
>
> I play it where they can take on other forms depending on the geographic
> location they are from.
>
> Now, as for Meta stat mods? No way. The animals shifting into a
> (meta)human form is just that, a form. Shapeshifters are a race unto
> themselves and as such have their own racial mods. Remember they are
> animals that assume a human form, not the other way around. Using this
many
> wouldn't try to "infiltrate" a Troll society doe to "blending in"
problems
> with stats. Bear would probably be the main ones to pull it off. Foxes
and
> cats on the other hand would do very well in elven dominated ares.
>

Ok. Thanks for the inputs, I've decided to go with the Human only form
for now. But one other question came to mind. How *good* is this
shapeshifting ability? Does the shapeshifter pick one human form and thats
it? Can he alter his appearance? It would be handy to do this considering
his mug is all over the news now but could get highly abused.
I thought of maybe allowing him to buy a edge or skill for each form,
basically a karma cost per form. Has anyone else done something similiar?

Jamz
Message no. 36
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu May 31 12:45:01 2001
> Ok. Thanks for the inputs, I've decided to go with the Human only
> form
> for now. But one other question came to mind. How *good* is this
> shapeshifting ability? Does the shapeshifter pick one human form and
> thats
> it? Can he alter his appearance? It would be handy to do this considering
> his mug is all over the news now but could get highly abused.
> I thought of maybe allowing him to buy a edge or skill for each form,
> basically a karma cost per form. Has anyone else done something similiar?
> Jamz

Canon dictates that you've got one face just like everyone else. But
who's to stop you from getting all funky with the rules? Your GM, that's
probably who. But really, it doesn't make a lot of sense; I'd never allow it.

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 37
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jeffery Green)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu May 31 21:35:01 2001
--- JamzTheMan <JamzTheMan@****.com> wrote:
> Ok. Thanks for the inputs, I've decided to go
> with the Human only form
> for now. But one other question came to mind. How
> *good* is this
> shapeshifting ability? Does the shapeshifter pick
> one human form and thats
> it? Can he alter his appearance? It would be handy
> to do this considering
> his mug is all over the news now but could get
> highly abused.
> I thought of maybe allowing him to buy a edge or
> skill for each form,
> basically a karma cost per form. Has anyone else
> done something similiar?
>
> Jamz


My Judge allowed tat back some time ago but it cost 5
times the Karma for each new look, and it could not
very too far from a general look, i.e. the hair, eyes,
skin color, height, and weight all stayed the same.
Basically what this did was give the Character a +1
per face to target number for identifying him. Up to
a maximum of +6. and the first face did not count.

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Message no. 38
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Fri Oct 19 14:45:01 2001
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I know that I should go find the book but I need this asap cause someone
wants to use one tonight….can ANYONE either e-mail me personally the
rules for a tiger shapeshifter or tell me where online I can find them?


Derek

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Message no. 39
From: zeromud@*******.com (Cody Osborne)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:08:01 -0700
Okay, there is a bit of a discussion about how Shapeshifter regeneration
works, and what it does and does not heal, and when it heals damage... What
i'm wanting to know is how it works.

Also can anyone give me a reason, and I mean like a developers reason why
the allowed full mage shifters to cast spells and summon spirits or
elementals while in animal form, but wasn't allowed to use adept powers
while in animal form.

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Message no. 40
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:35:44 +0200
Le 16 juin 2004, à 18:08, Cody Osborne a écrit :

> Also can anyone give me a reason, and I mean like a developers reason
> why the allowed full mage shifters to cast spells and summon spirits
> or elementals while in animal form, but wasn't allowed to use adept
> powers while in animal form.

Game balance. "Standard" magic only depends on your mental attributes,
so its efficiency doesn't change whether you're in human or animal form
(physical drain can't be regenerated).
But adept powers... Their purpose is (basically) to change your body
into a lethal weapon. A "regular" physad is a walking Hong-Kong action
movie, which is quite deadly by itself.
Now, most shapeshifters, when in animal form, have very high physical
attributes, tremendous speed (running multiplier = *5), a natural 2D6
initiative, hand-to-hand attacks that do S physical damage (with added
power and sometimes with added reach IIRC) and regeneration. It's
already on par with most adepts (with the added bonus of stunt doubles
:p ). Adding to all that more initiative dice, ranged attacks,
double-digit physical attributes and more dice for HtH Combat would be
a gamebreaker IMO.

Now, from a universe standpoint, I agree that it makes absolutely no
sense, given that a shapeshifter's human form is *not* its true form.
If anything they should be able to use their adept powers in animal
form only. But that's another debate.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr at yahoo dot fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 41
From: zeromud@*******.com (Cody Osborne)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:17:19 -0700
And how exactly does the regeneration work? I've heard lots of speculation,
but due to a lack of access to the critters book and what not... i'm at a
bit of a loss for rules.

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Message no. 42
From: datwinkdaddy@*******.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:22:07 -0500
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:35:44 +0200, Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:

> Le 16 juin 2004, à 18:08, Cody Osborne a écrit :
>
>> Also can anyone give me a reason, and I mean like a developers reason
>> why the allowed full mage shifters to cast spells and summon spirits or
>> elementals while in animal form, but wasn't allowed to use adept powers
>> while in animal form.
>
> Now, from a universe standpoint, I agree that it makes absolutely no
> sense, given that a shapeshifter's human form is *not* its true form. If
> anything they should be able to use their adept powers in animal form
> only. But that's another debate.

If my players could make a good argument, I would allow it as long as the
power were purchased separately for each form (with exceptions made by my
approval for certain skills). However, it would be something that they'd
already have to work into the back story supporting them being an animal
that chooses to run around with humans, and in the case of power used in
animal form learn from a human. [Even better, how did they learn their
skills for their animal form?]

--
Da Twink Daddy
ICQ: 514984; YM: DaTwinkDaddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
Message no. 43
From: graht1@*******.com (David Buehrer)
Subject: Shapeshifters
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:16:27 -0600
>From: Da Twink Daddy <datwinkdaddy@*******.com>
>
>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:35:44 +0200, Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:
>
>>Le 16 juin 2004, à 18:08, Cody Osborne a écrit :
>>
>>>Also can anyone give me a reason, and I mean like a developers reason why
>>>the allowed full mage shifters to cast spells and summon spirits or
>>>elementals while in animal form, but wasn't allowed to use adept powers
>>>while in animal form.
>>
>> Now, from a universe standpoint, I agree that it makes absolutely no
>>sense, given that a shapeshifter's human form is *not* its true form. If
>>anything they should be able to use their adept powers in animal form
>>only. But that's another debate.
>
>If my players could make a good argument, I would allow it as long as the
>power were purchased separately for each form (with exceptions made by my
>approval for certain skills).

I wouldn't charge them twice. That would be like charging a regular adept
twice so he can use his powers both day and night. The prices for adept
powers as listed are the prices any character pays to use them full time.
Why charge a shapeshifter more for the same? If anything I would cut them a
break if they could only use their powers in one form (maybe reduce the
magic cost at character creation by one letter (A to B, or B to C).

-Graht

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Further Reading

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