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Message no. 1
From: James Dening james@************.force9.co.uk
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:57:34 +0100
>>I've always been of the opinion that the entire nation has in a way a high
.>level
>>of energy that could be tapped into by the right forces. I'd presume that this
>>is one major reason why the Ghost Dance was such a success and why it was
>>natives
>>who got magic first. In it's soul, the land of North America has been
>>'spiritually
>>shaped' over tens of thousands of years. It knows who it belongs to...

>The same can be said of most euorpean countries too though. Also of
>africa, pretty much anywhere man has lived for a long period of time.

Absolutely not! The point is, that in the US and Down Under, the spiritually
aware, indigenous population has been effectively wiped out by colonists over
a relatively short period of time (300-400 years). In Europe, the majority
of countries have been *reasonably* stable, in terms of ethnic makeup, for
quite a while....Last time *we* were invaded was 1000 years ago...

So, the immense spiritual trauma caused by the reeducation centres and the
whole original Wild West (aka Genocide) never really happened in most parts
of Europe. Even the Eastern Block countries never really had their populations
displaced....Kosovo, OTOH, will be a background 4 region for as long as
I can think!

I mean, take Ireland - who could be arsed to invade the place (apart from
Fredriksohn Frediksohnsohn[1][2], and his sohn (sic) ) - whose sole contribution was
to give my ex-girlfriend the most *stunning* red hair I've ever seen. And some
people think that rape and pillage is a *bad* thing....Sheesh.... The ethnic
makeup of people in Ireland has not significantly changed really...ever...AFAIK!

J.

[1] Vikings...
[2] I know, I know...
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:04:38 +0200
According to James Dening, at 10:57 on 14 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> Last time *we* were invaded was 1000 years ago...

If you don't count the Channel Islands in WWII, actually it's a lot less
than that -- 202 years ago, around 5 pm on 22 February this year :)

> So, the immense spiritual trauma caused by the reeducation centres and the
> whole original Wild West (aka Genocide) never really happened in most parts
> of Europe. Even the Eastern Block countries never really had their populations
> displaced ....Kosovo, OTOH, will be a background 4 region for as long as
> I can think!

If Kosovo has a background count of 4 for the foreseeable future, what is
the background count in Poland, western Russia, or northern France? 40?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
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GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 99 11:44:41 +700
>>>I've always been of the opinion that the entire nation has in a way a high
level
>>>of energy that could be tapped into by the right forces. I'd presume that
this
>>>is one major reason why the Ghost Dance was such a success and why it was

>>>natives who got magic first. In it's soul, the land of North America has
been
>>>'spiritually shaped' over tens of thousands of years. It knows who it belongs
to...
>
>>The same can be said of most euorpean countries too though. Also of
>>africa, pretty much anywhere man has lived for a long period of time.
>
>Absolutely not! The point is, that in the US and Down Under, the spiritually

>aware, indigenous population has been effectively wiped out by colonists over

>a relatively short period of time (300-400 years). In Europe, the majority

>of countries have been *reasonably* stable, in terms of ethnic makeup, for

>quite a while....Last time *we* were invaded was 1000 years ago...

Yep. And if I recall my history lessons the Mongols lost that one.
They got as far as where Germany is now before being pushed back.

As a side note when I was in the Air Force (US) a friend of mine who's family
had come from Romania had a Mongolian last name. He could trace his roots back
to a Mongolian raider who'd stayed behind in Europe.

>So, the immense spiritual trauma caused by the reeducation centres and the

>whole original Wild West (aka Genocide) never really happened in most parts

>of Europe. Even the Eastern Block countries never really had their populations

>displaced....Kosovo, OTOH, will be a background 4 region for as long as
>I can think!

The Crusades have a level of this but not the same degree as the regions that
has left in dispute are still in dispute and over time the people there are
the same people who've always been there but now just split on different sides.


>I mean, take Ireland - who could be arsed to invade the place (apart from

>makeup of people in Ireland has not significantly changed really...ever...AFAIK!


Exactly. Even if the Brits wiped out every last Irishman and moved a bunch of
Italians in (who's know why this would ever happen :) ) the people there would
still be closely the same as the people the land had always known. At least
closer than the difference between an Apache and a Scottsman. The Italian and
the Irishman have shared several thousand years of contact and trade with some
ethnic mingling. A parralel to North America would be if France where taken
by the Japanese and all the French suddenly wiped out save for a very small
handful.
Message no. 4
From: Paul J. Adam Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:30:21 +0100
In article <199907141804.UAA06637@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.nl> writes
>According to James Dening, at 10:57 on 14 Jul 99, the word on
>the street was...
>
>> Last time *we* were invaded was 1000 years ago...
>
>If you don't count the Channel Islands in WWII, actually it's a lot less
>than that -- 202 years ago, around 5 pm on 22 February this year :)

1797? Only thing I can find around then is the battle of St. Vincent on 14
February, when Jervis scattered the Spanish fleet on its way to reinforce a
French invasion force in Brest. The invasion was cancelled as a result (and
a young Commodore Nelson earned his knighthood for his actions)

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 21:15:29 EDT
In a message dated 7/14/1999 5:45:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
james@************.force9.co.uk writes:

> >The same can be said of most euorpean countries too though. Also of
> >africa, pretty much anywhere man has lived for a long period of time.
>
> Absolutely not! The point is, that in the US and Down Under, the
spiritually
> aware, indigenous population has been effectively wiped out by colonists
> over
> a relatively short period of time (300-400 years). In Europe, the majority
> of countries have been *reasonably* stable, in terms of ethnic makeup, for
> quite a while....Last time *we* were invaded was 1000 years ago...

And mercifully, the rest of the world gained intelligence and decided it
would not ever be worth the effort again.... ;-P

> So, the immense spiritual trauma caused by the reeducation centres and the
> whole original Wild West (aka Genocide) never really happened in most parts
> of Europe. Even the Eastern Block countries never really had their
> populations
> displaced....Kosovo, OTOH, will be a background 4 region for as long as
> I can think!

Okay, STOP. I seem to recall a massive amount of redistribution associated
with WWII.

> I mean, take Ireland - who could be arsed to invade the place (apart from
> Fredriksohn Frediksohnsohn[1][2], and his sohn (sic) ) - whose sole
> contribution was
> to give my ex-girlfriend the most *stunning* red hair I've ever seen. And
> some
> people think that rape and pillage is a *bad* thing....Sheesh.... The
ethnic
> makeup of people in Ireland has not significantly changed really...ever...
> AFAIK!

Again, and mercifully it will not likely ever be messed with ever again...

-K
Message no. 6
From: James Dening james@************.force9.co.uk
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:22:33 +0100
>If you don't count the Channel Islands in WWII, actually it's a lot less
>than that -- 202 years ago, around 5 pm on 22 February this year :)

|1797? Only thing I can find around then is the battle of St. Vincent on 14
|February, when Jervis scattered the Spanish fleet on its way to reinforce a
|French invasion force in Brest. The invasion was cancelled as a result (and
|a young Commodore Nelson earned his knighthood for his actions)

I must say, I'm intrigued as well....Gurth?

J.
Message no. 7
From: Walter Scheper Ratlaw@*******.com
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:59:25 +0000 (GMT)
On Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:02:24 +0100, chimerae@***.ie wrote:

>I'll be surprised if you can find a ethnic "pure" group anywhere in
>Europe.
>
Scientifically speaking there is no "pure" ethnic group anywhere in
the world. IIRC, a population of 1000 people chosen from any "ethnic
group" contains every genetic variation found in humans. This means
that 1000 Aborigines's, 1000 Amerindians, 1000 people from London or
1000 people from the bayous of Louisiana all contain every genetic
variation in the human species. Speaking of genetics, do you know
what the two most genetically different groups of humans are? And
another fun genetic fact, humans are the most widespread and
genetically undiverse species on the planet.

PS: All of these fun facts come from a lecture given by Richard J.
Smith, head of the anthropology department as Washington University,
St. Louis.

Ratlaw
Walter Scheper
-----------------------------------------------------
How should I look today, in the presence of Americans,
dividing and subdividing a discourse, to show that men
have a natural right to freedom, speaking of it relatively
and positively, negatively and affirmatively?
Frederick Douglass
Message no. 8
From: chimerae@***.ie chimerae@***.ie
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:02:24 +0100
And thus did James Dening on 14 Jul 99, at 10:57 speak:

[snippertysnip]
> I mean, take Ireland - who could be arsed to invade the place (apart from
> Fredriksohn Frediksohnsohn[1][2], and his sohn (sic) ) - whose sole
> contribution was to give my ex-girlfriend the most *stunning* red hair
> I've ever seen.

Erhm, coming from an UK person that might be considered a very silly
statement since you lot couldn't be bothered to keep yer arse out of
the country for centuries :).

> And some people think that rape and pillage is a *bad*

I guess that entirely depends on which side you are...

> thing....Sheesh.... The ethnic makeup of people in Ireland has not
> significantly changed really...ever...AFAIK!

Hmm, so all those English gentlemen never touched the Irish girls...
;)
In any case ever is a big word. According to the legends they invaded
Ireland themselves first, driving out the people who lived there
(Milensians?). Like you said there's a fair drop of Viking blood,
quite a few Spanish got lost here after the Armada debacle. There's
still some Pictish blood floating around. And the Scots have had
close contact for a long time.

I'll be surprised if you can find a ethnic "pure" group anywhere in
Europe.


Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 9
From: chimerae@***.ie chimerae@***.ie
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:39:49 +0100
And thus did Walter Scheper on 18 Jul 99, at 1:59 speak:

[snip some very interesting facts]
> Speaking of genetics, do you know what the two most
> genetically different groups of humans are? And another fun genetic fact,
> humans are the most widespread and genetically undiverse species on the
> planet.

I knew the latter, but was scrolling downward for the answer to
number two in vain...

Okay, I'll bite, who are they?




Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 10
From: Walter Scheper Ratlaw@*******.com
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:10:30 +0000 (GMT)
On Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:39:49 +0100, chimerae@***.ie wrote:

{snip my stuff]
>
>I knew the latter, but was scrolling downward for the answer to
>number two in vain...
>
>Okay, I'll bite, who are they?
oops, got distracted by my own fun facts :). The two most genetically
diverse groups are the Australian Aborigines and the Pygmies in
Africa. Whose surprised? I was.

Ratlaw
Walter Scheper
-----------------------------------------------------
How should I look today, in the presence of Americans,
dividing and subdividing a discourse, to show that men
have a natural right to freedom, speaking of it relatively
and positively, negatively and affirmatively?
Frederick Douglass
Message no. 11
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:51:26 +1000
At 23:10 20/07/99 +0000 Walter Scheper wrote
>oops, got distracted by my own fun facts :). The two most genetically
>diverse groups are the Australian Aborigines and the Pygmies in
>Africa. Whose surprised? I was.
>
>Ratlaw
>Walter Scheper

How, prey tell, are Australian Aboriginies more
genetically diverse that other human beings??
__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 12
From: Arcady0 arcady0@*********.com
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:46:50 -0700
I think he meant "Two most genetically different from each other".


Manx wrote:
>
> At 23:10 20/07/99 +0000 Walter Scheper wrote
> >oops, got distracted by my own fun facts :). The two most genetically
> >diverse groups are the Australian Aborigines and the Pygmies in
> >Africa. Whose surprised? I was.
> >
> >Ratlaw
> >Walter Scheper
>
> How, prey tell, are Australian Aboriginies more
> genetically diverse that other human beings??
> __________________________________
> Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
> "It's always funny until someone gets hurt
> and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
> __________________________________
Message no. 13
From: Mist Warrior themistwarrior@********.com.au
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:04:26 +1000
And Manx wrote

> > How, prey tell, are Australian Aboriginies more
> > genetically diverse that other human beings??


Well Manx, and this is by no means definitive, for one thing, Koori's
(their name for themselves) have an elongated Talus (heal bone), which
is of a significant length difference. The difference equates to our
Aboridginal peers being able to use (from memory here) approx 25% LESS
muscle mass than about every other Racial norm on earth. Translate
that they can walk/run forever and use less energy. Also gives them
the "skinny leg big gut and bum" look as these are the two areas that
store water in the fat cells for them.

As I have said, I am running off memory here and if anyone has the
right %'s then please feel free to correct me; As I haven't got any of
my notes from my Radiographers course handy. And I am not sure of
other genetic differences they have. Fantastic Infanteers though..best
I ever worked with. :-)
Message no. 14
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Shaping spiritual lands (was: The Value of Edu...zzzzzz)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:08:45 -0400
At 19.51 07-21-99 +1000, you wrote:
>How, prey tell, are Australian Aboriginies more
>genetically diverse that other human beings??

Isolated gene pool. Just like the rest of the continent's indigenous
lifeforms.


CyberRaven
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"'Impossible' is a term used by those of little imagination or intelligence
to describe that which they can not understand."

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