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Message no. 1
From: Jim DiCamillo darien_7seas@*****.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:35:18 -0700 (PDT)
Ok, it says shock gloves cause 7S stun damage, and
that physical attacks are reduced to (Str-1)M. Does
that mean all punching attacks are just at -1 power,
so an adapt with killing hands can still use the power
with shock gloves on? Also, what happens if a
character wants to turn a pair of shock gloves or
hardliner gloves into a weapon focus? Would the extra
dice be added to unarmed combat( fists ) dice?

~Tenkilian

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Message no. 2
From: Rookie tmathena@*******.net
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 11:01:07 -0700
> Ok, it says shock gloves cause 7S stun damage, and
> that physical attacks are reduced to (Str-1)M. Does
> that mean all punching attacks are just at -1 power,
> so an adapt with killing hands can still use the power
> with shock gloves on? Also, what happens if a
> character wants to turn a pair of shock gloves or
> hardliner gloves into a weapon focus? Would the extra
> dice be added to unarmed combat( fists ) dice?
>

The (Str-1)M is used when the Stun part of the gloves are turned off.
Yes an Adapt can still use his killing hands with out being affected because
the damage delt from killing hands is the transfer of magic from the adepts
body into the targets. Not the actual physical hit. Or at least IMHO
As of Shock gloves being a power focus..I wouldn't allow it in my game. Just
cuz I don't like the idea.

-Rookie
Message no. 3
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 08:15:10 GMT
>From: Jim DiCamillo <darien_7seas@*****.com>
>Ok, it says shock gloves cause 7S stun damage, and
>that physical attacks are reduced to (Str-1)M. Does
>that mean all punching attacks are just at -1 power,
>so an adapt with killing hands can still use the power
>with shock gloves on?

Humm, depends how the killing hands manifest, I see shock gloves as
requiring the wearer's fist to make contact but the wearer has to "fold" his
or her fist when hitting. Its hard to explain without actually showing you.

>Also, what happens if a
>character wants to turn a pair of shock gloves or
>hardliner gloves into a weapon focus? Would the extra
>dice be added to unarmed combat( fists ) dice?

Yep, as would a ring made of oricalchum bonded as a weapon focus or a pair
of gloves, with some oricalchum in them.

Phil

That's it; get out of my castle!
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Message no. 4
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 12:13:35 +0200
According to Rookie, at 11:01 on 8 Jul 00, the word on the street was...

> As of Shock gloves being a power focus..I wouldn't allow it in my game. Just
> cuz I don't like the idea.

There is something to be said for not allowing it, although OTOH shock
gloves would be a lot harder to enchant than regular gloves (with spikes --
it has to be a weapon to start with :) would be.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Message no. 5
From: dbuehrer@******.carl.org dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:03:38 -0600
Phil Smith wrote:
>>From: Jim DiCamillo <darien_7seas@*****.com>
>>Ok, it says shock gloves cause 7S stun damage, and
>>that physical attacks are reduced to (Str-1)M. Does
>>that mean all punching attacks are just at -1 power,
>>so an adapt with killing hands can still use the power
>>with shock gloves on?
>
>Humm, depends how the killing hands manifest, I see shock gloves as
>requiring the wearer's fist to make contact but the wearer has to "fold"
>his or her fist when hitting. Its hard to explain without actually
>showing you.

I require all abilities to be activated/deactivated (which requires a free
action).

Based on that, if a physad activates his killing hands ability while
wearing gloves the gloves are attacked on every action of the physad's that
the power is active. The attack uses the object resistance table (IMO the
killing hands power is more like a combat spell than a manipulation spell)
to determine the TN, rolling a number of dice equal to half the physad's
strength (I'm borrowing from the grenade rules for this one).


To Life,
-Graht
http://www.users.uswest.net/~abaker3
--
"Warm nights, good food, kindred spirits....great life!"
Message no. 6
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:33:33 -0700 (PDT)
> >>Ok, it says shock gloves cause 7S stun damage, and
that physical attacks are reduced to (Str-1)M. Does
that mean all punching attacks are just at -1 power,
so an adapt with killing hands can still use the power
with shock gloves on?
<Snippage(TM)>

Actually, guys, I have an actual question to do with
shock gloves. :)

I always ruled that they do shock damage AND impact
damage (7S Stun AND Str-1M Stun). Combat successes
only apply to the punch damage.

Now, it seems according to you guys I was reading this
wrong. Did anyone else interpret shock gloves the way
I did?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 7
From: Alfredo B Alves dghost@****.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:29:23 -0500
On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Rand
Ratinac?<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> I always ruled that they do shock damage AND impact
> damage (7S Stun AND Str-1M Stun). Combat successes
> only apply to the punch damage.
>
> Now, it seems according to you guys I was reading this
> wrong. Did anyone else interpret shock gloves the way
> I did?

Yes.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 8
From: Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:25:55 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 4:33 AM
Subject: Re: Shock gloves


> > >>Ok, it says shock gloves cause 7S stun damage, and
> that physical attacks are reduced to (Str-1)M. Does
> that mean all punching attacks are just at -1 power,
> so an adapt with killing hands can still use the power
> with shock gloves on?
> <Snippage(TM)>
>
> Actually, guys, I have an actual question to do with
> shock gloves. :)
>
> I always ruled that they do shock damage AND impact
> damage (7S Stun AND Str-1M Stun). Combat successes
> only apply to the punch damage.
>
> Now, it seems according to you guys I was reading this
> wrong. Did anyone else interpret shock gloves the way
> I did?

In 1st-2nd Ed. I used to read it as either shock damage (7S stun) or impact
damage (Str-1M stun), and combat successes would apply to either. For some
reason in 3rd Ed. I read it as both shock and impact damage (7S Stun &
Str-1M Stun), and combat successes apply to both.

Lars
--
The solution to many problems lies in having somebody else do the work.
[Andrew S. Tanenbaum]
--
Lars Wagner Hansen mailto:l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Jagtvej 11 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
DK-4180 Sorø phone +45 5783 5950
Denmark
Message no. 9
From: dbuehrer@******.carl.org dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:43:59 -0600
Rand Ratinac wrote:
> > >>Ok, it says shock gloves cause 7S stun damage, and
>that physical attacks are reduced to (Str-1)M. Does
>that mean all punching attacks are just at -1 power,
>so an adapt with killing hands can still use the power
>with shock gloves on?
><Snippage(TM)>
>
>Actually, guys, I have an actual question to do with
>shock gloves. :)
>
>I always ruled that they do shock damage AND impact
>damage (7S Stun AND Str-1M Stun). Combat successes
>only apply to the punch damage.

Ditto.

>Now, it seems according to you guys I was reading this
>wrong. Did anyone else interpret shock gloves the way
>I did?

See above :)

To Life,
-Graht
http://www.users.uswest.net/~abaker3
--
"All things are at all times, in motion. Take the time to watch the dance."
-John Caeser Leafston
Message no. 10
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:31:25 GMT
>From: "Lars Wagner Hansen" <l-hansen@*****.tele.dk>
> > Actually, guys, I have an actual question to do with
> > shock gloves. :)
> >
> > I always ruled that they do shock damage AND impact
> > damage (7S Stun AND Str-1M Stun). Combat successes
> > only apply to the punch damage.
> >
> > Now, it seems according to you guys I was reading this
> > wrong. Did anyone else interpret shock gloves the way
> > I did?
>
>In 1st-2nd Ed. I used to read it as either shock damage (7S stun) or impact
>damage (Str-1M stun), and combat successes would apply to either. For some
>reason in 3rd Ed. I read it as both shock and impact damage (7S Stun &
>Str-1M Stun), and combat successes apply to both.

Is that the official ruling or your interpretation because if you apply
successes to both, shock gloves become f**king deadly, they cost less than
1000¥, are easy to obtain, pretty concelable and they almost gurantee to
cause a hell of a lot of damage. Plus the user, IMHO, isn't putting any
effort into making the shock worse, they are concentrating on punching and
the glove does its own thing.

Phil

That's it; get out of my castle!
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Message no. 11
From: Matt Waltner-Toews cheshire_penguin@*******.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:57:27 PDT
>From: "Phil Smith" <phil_urbanhell@*******.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: shadowrn@*********.com
>Subject: Re: Shock gloves
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:31:25 GMT
>
>>From: "Lars Wagner Hansen" <l-hansen@*****.tele.dk>
>> > Actually, guys, I have an actual question to do with
>> > shock gloves. :)
>> >
>> > I always ruled that they do shock damage AND impact
>> > damage (7S Stun AND Str-1M Stun). Combat successes
>> > only apply to the punch damage.
>> >
>> > Now, it seems according to you guys I was reading this
>> > wrong. Did anyone else interpret shock gloves the way
>> > I did?
>>
>>In 1st-2nd Ed. I used to read it as either shock damage (7S stun) or
>>impact
>>damage (Str-1M stun), and combat successes would apply to either. For some
>>reason in 3rd Ed. I read it as both shock and impact damage (7S Stun &
>>Str-1M Stun), and combat successes apply to both.
>
>Is that the official ruling or your interpretation because if you apply
>successes to both, shock gloves become f**king deadly, they cost less than
>1000¥, are easy to obtain, pretty concelable and they almost gurantee to
>cause a hell of a lot of damage. Plus the user, IMHO, isn't putting any
>effort into making the shock worse, they are concentrating on punching and
>the glove does its own thing.
>
>Phil
>
>That's it; get out of my castle!
----------------------------------------------

I don't know about your games, but in mine I pretty much know that if the
PC's engage my NPC's in hand to hand, the NPC's invariably lose, killer
shock gloves or not. Most of my long running NPC villains/heroes know
enough about the PCs to hire snipers :)


>>>[Can you imagine a world with no hypothetical situations?]<<<
---the Cheshire Penguin(03:54:10/11-07-0)

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Message no. 12
From: Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 01:15:12 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Smith <phil_urbanhell@*******.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Shock gloves


> >From: "Lars Wagner Hansen" <l-hansen@*****.tele.dk>
> > > Actually, guys, I have an actual question to do with
> > > shock gloves. :)
> > >
> > > I always ruled that they do shock damage AND impact
> > > damage (7S Stun AND Str-1M Stun). Combat successes
> > > only apply to the punch damage.
> > >
> > > Now, it seems according to you guys I was reading this
> > > wrong. Did anyone else interpret shock gloves the way
> > > I did?
> >
> >In 1st-2nd Ed. I used to read it as either shock damage (7S stun) or
impact
> >damage (Str-1M stun), and combat successes would apply to either. For
some
> >reason in 3rd Ed. I read it as both shock and impact damage (7S Stun &
> >Str-1M Stun), and combat successes apply to both.
>
> Is that the official ruling or your interpretation because if you apply
> successes to both, shock gloves become f**king deadly, they cost less than
> 1000¥, are easy to obtain, pretty concelable and they almost gurantee to
> cause a hell of a lot of damage. Plus the user, IMHO, isn't putting any
> effort into making the shock worse, they are concentrating on punching and
> the glove does its own thing.

SR3 page 275-6: "When striking with shock gloves, fist damage is reduced to
(STR-1)M, but the gloves deliver an extra 7S Stun (see Shock Weapons, p. 124
of the Combat section)."

p. 124 under shock weapons: "...is handeled according to the normal rules
for that type of weapon." Although the shock weapons refer directly to Stun
Batons and Taser Guns, they also mention the types (melee and ranged).

As I said above: _I_ read it as both shock and impact, and successes applies
to both.

Lars
--
The solution to many problems lies in having somebody else do the work.
[Andrew S. Tanenbaum]
--
Lars Wagner Hansen mailto:l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Jagtvej 11 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
DK-4180 Sorø phone +45 5783 5950
Denmark
Message no. 13
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:31:42 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: <dbuehrer@******.carl.org>

> >Humm, depends how the killing hands manifest, I see shock gloves as
> >requiring the wearer's fist to make contact but the wearer has to
"fold"
> >his or her fist when hitting. Its hard to explain without actually
> >showing you.
>
> I require all abilities to be activated/deactivated (which requires a free
> action).
>
> Based on that, if a physad activates his killing hands ability while
> wearing gloves the gloves are attacked on every action of the physad's
that
> the power is active. The attack uses the object resistance table (IMO the
> killing hands power is more like a combat spell than a manipulation spell)
> to determine the TN, rolling a number of dice equal to half the physad's
> strength (I'm borrowing from the grenade rules for this one).

There is another option, though one taken only by the true roleplayers ...
the adept could have a geasa which stipulates that any specific one/some/all
of his/hers/it's powers are always active.

Hmm, here's another possibility. The adept has a geasa which stipulates
that whenever they activate a power they suffer drain from it's activation.
The adept could roll their Body or Willpower against the following drain :
(Magic Attribute / 2, round down)(Damage level varies). The Damage Level is
determined by taking the total of the adept's power points spent on powers
and dividing it by 6, and rounding to the nearest whole number (round down
if less than 0.5, round up if higher than 0.5). A '1' means L drain level,
a '2' means 'M', a 3 means 'S', and a 5 means 'D'.

What do you think about the second geasa possibility?

-Mike
Message no. 14
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:09:31 GMT
>From: "Matt Waltner-Toews" <cheshire_penguin@*******.com>
>I don't know about your games, but in mine I pretty much know that if the
>PC's engage my NPC's in hand to hand, the NPC's invariably lose, killer
>shock gloves or not. Most of my long running NPC villains/heroes know
>enough about the PCs to hire snipers :)

Oh my games are like that; I'm just still in denial about it :)>

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
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Message no. 15
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:27:18 GMT
>From: "Lars Wagner Hansen" <l-hansen@*****.tele.dk>
>SR3 page 275-6: "When striking with shock gloves, fist damage is reduced to
>(STR-1)M, but the gloves deliver an extra 7S Stun (see Shock Weapons, p.
>124
>of the Combat section)."
>
>p. 124 under shock weapons: "...is handeled according to the normal rules
>for that type of weapon." Although the shock weapons refer directly to Stun
>Batons and Taser Guns, they also mention the types (melee and ranged).
>
>As I said above: _I_ read it as both shock and impact, and successes
>applies
>to both.

Fiar enough; the fact that the normal punch is reduced to STR-1M implies
that the wearer of the gloves is putting some effort into making sure that
the gloves shock properly. But to keep people from guranteing a KO every
time they hit, I'm going to only apply staging to the normal unarmed blow.

Phil

Let us assume that we have a can opener.
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Message no. 16
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Shock gloves
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:42 -0700 (PDT)
> >p. 124 under shock weapons: "...is handeled
according to the normal rules for that type of
weapon." Although the shock weapons refer directly to
Stun Batons and Taser Guns, they also mention the
types (melee and ranged).
> >
> >As I said above: _I_ read it as both shock and
impact, and successes applies to both.
>
> Fiar enough; the fact that the normal punch is
reduced to STR-1M implies that the wearer of the
gloves is putting some effort into making sure that
the gloves shock properly. But to keep people from
guranteing a KO every time they hit, I'm going to only
apply staging to the normal unarmed blow.
> Phil

Actually, Phil, I think it's meant to imply that the
gloves pad the blow - you're still going to hurt the
target, but it's like hitting them with a (harder)
boxing glove - the glove itself absorbs some of the
force of the punch.

Btw, has anyone made boxing glove stats for SR?
(Str-2)M Stun? (Str-3)M Stun? (1/2 Str) Stun?

*Doc' goes to hospital to get a boxing glove
surgically removed from his butt..."You don't ask and
I won't tell..."*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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