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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <jweste%smtp@******.HZEELAND.NL>
Subject: Shotgun
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 13:59:57 +0200
>could it be a spas? (15 maybe? i've seen the spas 12 and i saw bits and
>pieces of a spas 15...any clues...)

The SPAS-15 is much smaller, about the size of a Colt CAR-15 assault
carbine (you know, the shortened M16 with the telescoping stock). The gun
in the movie was probably a SPAS-11 or -12 (going by Jane's Infantry
Weapons)

>I think that the mossberg cmdt is similar to the spas 15

More to the Beretta M3P, though that weapon can't fire bursts, only
semi-auto and pump-action. Maybe the Smith&Wesson AS-series comes
closest.

>any comments?

See above...



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Gurth + I'm buried up to my neck in +
+ (jweste%smtp@******.hzeeland.nl) + contradictionary flies +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Message no. 2
From: "John B. Owen" <StreetSpam@***.COM>
Subject: Shotgun
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:19:08 -0400
I have a question... is it possable to mount a gernade launcher on a shotgun?
and is there any type of Burst Fire gernade lanucher (mini launcher), or a
full auto one...?

Thumper
Message no. 3
From: Glenn Robb <GLENNROBB@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:48:06 -0600
John B. Owen wrote:

> I have a question... is it possable to mount a gernade launcher on a shotgun?
> and is there any type of Burst Fire gernade lanucher (mini launcher), or a
> full auto one...?

No, I don't think so. But I can guess why you'd want to. I think it can be done,
but you'll be adding extra weight. I don't suggest you do it.

Elton Robb
Message no. 4
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 06:06:37 GMT
On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:19:08 -0400, John B. Owen wrote:

> I have a question... is it possable to mount a gernade launcher on a shotgun?
> and is there any type of Burst Fire gernade lanucher (mini launcher), or a
> full auto one...?

According to Shadowrun rules, if the weapon claims to have an
under-barrel mount, it can mount any under-barrel accessory (including
grenade launchers). An official merger of the two technologies
doesn't exist in Shadowrun probably due to the fact that grenade
launchers are normally for battlefield use and shotguns are not (in
RL, anyways).

Paolo's SR Character Generator lists a fully automatic grenade
launcher (I'm not sure where it is from). I believe it is too heavy
for even an augmented troll to carry, however, although I could be
wrong.

James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

"Give me the strength to change the things I can,
the grace to accept the things I cannot,
and a great big bag of money."
Message no. 5
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:45:06 GMT
John B. Owen writes

> I have a question... is it possable to mount a gernade launcher on a shotgun?
if it takes underbarrel mounts. Read the weapon descriptions in SR2
or the specific weapon in question.

> and is there any type of Burst Fire gernade lanucher (mini launcher), or a
> full auto one...?
>
Not in FASA books but there are in the Shadowland magazines (which
FASA at least 'look' at) what you want is a darkstorm launcher, full
auto grenade launcher sure 20pts recoil is a pain but the effect is
extream. Now all you need is find the stats, save enough money and
pursude the GM. (then watch the NPC's use one and hospitlise the
whole team in one burst :) )

Mark
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:40:06 +0100
John B. Owen said on 22:19/ 9 Sep 97...

> I have a question... is it possable to mount a gernade launcher on a shotgun?

Unless there's a mention of the shotgun not having an under-barrel mount,
I don't see why not. Although I'd probably disallow it for pump-action
shotguns like the Remington 990 (from Fields of Fire).

> and is there any type of Burst Fire gernade lanucher (mini launcher), or a
> full auto one...?

Not in any FASA book, but there are several on the net.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well, I have no opinion about that, and I have no opinion about me...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:57:36 -0600
Quoth Gurth:
>
> John B. Owen said on 22:19/ 9 Sep 97...
>
> > I have a question... is it possable to mount a gernade launcher on a shotgun?
>
> Unless there's a mention of the shotgun not having an under-barrel mount,
> I don't see why not. Although I'd probably disallow it for pump-action
> shotguns like the Remington 990 (from Fields of Fire).

I had a sammie with a pretty good Firearms(B/R), about 5 I think,
who used it to mount an under-barrel GL to his Defiance T-250. A good
guideline on this is to always discuss it with the player and/or GM. If
at least one of you has a solid understanding of firearms then you should
be able to work something out.

> > and is there any type of Burst Fire gernade lanucher (mini launcher), or a
> > full auto one...?
>
> Not in any FASA book, but there are several on the net.

Check SWO Guns. I can't remember if it's in the first edition or in
the upcoming second, but we've got at least one of those in there.

http://www.swo.com

BTW, thanks for the plug earlier, Gurth!

--
| Any resemblance between the above and my own
Mike Loseke | views is non-deterministic. The question of
mike@*******.com | the existence of views in the absence of anyone
| to hold them is left as an exercise to the reader.
Message no. 8
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:57:25 +0100
In article <970909154647_1853333285@*******.mail.aol.com>, "John B.
Owen" <StreetSpam@***.COM> writes
>I have a question... is it possable to mount a gernade launcher on a shotgun?

Should be possible.

>and is there any type of Burst Fire gernade lanucher (mini launcher), or a
>full auto one...?

Real life there are weapons like the Mark 19 and the AGS-17 automatic
grenade launchers, which are effective but large and definitely not man-
portable: I'd stretch to not even Troll-portable.

In SR there aren't, because rolling for scatter for every grenade in a
ten-round burst sounds nauseating.


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:50:59 +0100
Mike Loseke said on 8:57/10 Sep 97...

> BTW, thanks for the plug earlier, Gurth!

I could have pointed him to http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/rg_rtf.zip
instead, but I decided to be nice for a change :)

(BTW, the above-mentioned file also has a fully-automatic grenade launcher
firing at up to 8 rounds per Complex Action. Just thought John Owen would
like to know...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well, I have no opinion about that, and I have no opinion about me...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 10
From: Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:45:52 +0000
> I have a question... is it possable to mount a gernade launcher on a shotgun?
> and is there any type of Burst Fire gernade lanucher (mini launcher), or a
> full auto one...?

If it is possible ? Sure I don't see why not ... but not if the
shotgun has pump action atleast I think that would be kinda hard (I
have never tried mounting a grenade launcher on daddys shotgun :) ).

A full auto grenade launcher ? is there such a thing ? in small
portable form ? I seriously doubt it ... but then we are talking
about scifi ..

Mount away but I would forget (or if I was the GM I would ban) the
usage of a FA Grenade launcher.

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
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Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:37:56 +0100
Stefan said on 23:45/10 Sep 97...

> A full auto grenade launcher ? is there such a thing ? in small
> portable form ? I seriously doubt it ... but then we are talking
> about scifi ..

There are several full-auto grenade launchers IRL, the most well-known are
the American Mark 19 and the Russian AGS-17, but there are others as well.
These are tripod-mounted weapons, though, way too large and heavy to fit
underneath a hand-held weapon of any kind, or even to be fired as one
themselves.

> Mount away but I would forget (or if I was the GM I would ban) the
> usage of a FA Grenade launcher.

Just give it such a high Availability that it's nearly impossible for
players to get their hands on, and then hope they don't buy one during
character generation ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well, I have no opinion about that, and I have no opinion about me...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 12
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:12:50 -0500
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Paul J. Adam wrote:

> Real life there are weapons like the Mark 19 and the AGS-17 automatic
> grenade launchers, which are effective but large and definitely not man-
> portable: I'd stretch to not even Troll-portable.

Depends on your definition of "man portable". IIRC the M-19 is suposedly
man protable but takes a team of 4 or so to do it and its still a pain. 1
packs the tripod, 1 the gun, and 2 for the ammo(40mm rounds are bulky and
the thing fires threehundred rpm). You wont go very fast and you cant
carry anything else but it is "man portable" when you break it down (opps
forgot the time to set it up and break it down again for carrying it, not
a quick response weapon). Much easier to put in on a pintel mount on the
hummer or on the helocopter.

Now actualy holding the thing in your arms and firing it? LOL ya right!
I doubt even a troll could keep it on target after a secound. :)

> In SR there aren't, because rolling for scatter for every grenade in a
> ten-round burst sounds nauseating.

And with the burst efectivly all exploding at the same time makes for
extreem Chunky Salsa Efect. Now when you start mixing the ammo feed so
you have HE, HE, Frag, Frag, WP, HE..... you start geting really scary
and WAY out of the shadows.
Message no. 13
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Shotgun
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:09:39 +0100
In article <Pine.ULT.3.96.970911145744.2516B-100000@*****.wheaton.edu>,
The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU> writes
>On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>
>> Real life there are weapons like the Mark 19 and the AGS-17 automatic
>> grenade launchers, which are effective but large and definitely not man-
>> portable: I'd stretch to not even Troll-portable.
>
>Depends on your definition of "man portable".

>Now actualy holding the thing in your arms and firing it? LOL ya right!
>I doubt even a troll could keep it on target after a secound. :)

Well, MILAN antitank missiles are "man portable" (it's got a handle,
right?) and you can carry it, but you will not fire it except after
setting it down and bedding in the tripod legs. That's what I meant: not
that one man can't carry the weapon, a second the tripod, and two more
the ammo, but that nobody's going to run around firing this baby from
the hip.

>> In SR there aren't, because rolling for scatter for every grenade in a
>> ten-round burst sounds nauseating.
>
>And with the burst efectivly all exploding at the same time makes for
>extreem Chunky Salsa Efect. Now when you start mixing the ammo feed so
>you have HE, HE, Frag, Frag, WP, HE..... you start geting really scary
>and WAY out of the shadows.

Yep. Like 30mm cannon SAPHEI, "It hit you. You're dead.".

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

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