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Message no. 1
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:57:05 -0400
Can someone explain how shotguns do burst fire? I mean do you pump the
gun three times or does one pump ready three bullets?

Dust
Message no. 2
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:14:15 -0500
> Can someone explain how shotguns do burst fire? I mean do you
> pump the gun three times or does one pump ready three bullets?

Most of the shotguns in SR are autoloaders (ie not pump style).
Therefore, one pumps them not at all.

The enfield in SR2 is an assault shotgun which means it's an
autoloader with semi-auto, and burst-fire modes (I suppose it
probably has a safety too, but who would use it?). No pumping
required.

Love,

Gossamer
Message no. 3
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <Dreadnaut1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:40:23 -0400
In a message dated 97-06-02 11:06:17 EDT, Dust wrote:

> Can someone explain how shotguns do burst fire? I mean do you pump the
> gun three times or does one pump ready three bullets?
>

If you look at all the pictures of burst firing shotguns, none of them are
pump action. Instead, all of them use enlarged assault rifle mechanisms,
which are capable of burst fire.

Later-

Duncan
Message no. 4
From: Marcin Serkies <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:06:10 +0200
At 10:57 AM 6/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Can someone explain how shotguns do burst fire? I mean do you pump the
>gun three times or does one pump ready three bullets?

AFAIK there is no pumping... not every shotgun need pumping :)

yasiu
Message no. 5
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:31:10 EDT
On Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:57:05 -0400 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG> writes:
>Can someone explain how shotguns do burst fire? I mean do you pump
>the
>gun three times or does one pump ready three bullets?

Neither, because not all Shotguns are pump action. IOW, just like any
other gun:)


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:09:33 +0100
Dust said on 10:57/ 2 Jun 97...

> Can someone explain how shotguns do burst fire? I mean do you pump the
> gun three times or does one pump ready three bullets?

Not all shotguns are pump-action, not in RL and not in SR. A self-loading
shotgun works in much the same way any other self-loading weapon, though
with shotguns there's the problem of the rounds often being not powerful
enough to drive the mechanism, and the plastic casings might melt. For RL
auto-loading shotguns, look at weapons like the Remington 7188, the AAI
CAWS (Close Assault Weapon System, does 450 rpm), or the Beretta M3P
(which can also be used as a pump-gun for low-powered ammo).

Anyway, I digress. SR burst-fire shotguns are self-loading weapons: you
pull the trigger, the round is fired, and either by direct blowback of by
tapping off propellant gas, the next round is loaded. If you can do that,
you can also make it cycle 3 times by means of a burst limiter, or make it
full-auto.
A pump-action weapon could only fire a three-round burst if it has three
barrels, all of which get loaded by the pump action at once. Possible, but
impractical due to the size of the thing.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
People always talk about long-distance phonecalls as if they had to walk
all the way.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:16:34 -0400
On Jun 2, 11:40, Duncan McNeill-Burton wrote:
> Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
> In a message dated 97-06-02 11:06:17 EDT, Dust wrote:
>
> > Can someone explain how shotguns do burst fire? I mean do you pump the
> > gun three times or does one pump ready three bullets?
> >
>
> If you look at all the pictures of burst firing shotguns, none of them are
> pump action. Instead, all of them use enlarged assault rifle mechanisms,
> which are capable of burst fire.
>
> Later-
>
> Duncan
>-- End of excerpt from Duncan McNeill-Burton

There are today many shotguns that fire burst and have a
slide for pumping in addition. Why pump, for tube feed shotguns
you might have to cycle the weapon to insert each round. You
might have to pump to clear jams or duds. Low velocity rounds
such as flares or tear gass don't produce enough gass pressure
to chamber the next round, so you would have to pump.

I believe the current spas assault shotgun fires burst, and has
a slide for the reasons above. In addition there is a special
shell they invented in the late 60's or early 70's that gives
you a silent shotgun. The cartridge placed the gun powder in
a sealed piston. When fired the piston expanded to the length of
the casing then stopped, containing the expanding gas. Since
the gas was contained it was effectively silenced. The problem
with the cartidge is that a longer muzzle does not increase the
power of the round since there is no gas pushing it. So you get
the power of a sawed off shotgun but with the benefit of better
accuracy due to a long barrel. You also have to cycle the round
with a pump since there was no gas to chamger the next round.




--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
Message no. 8
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:27:44 -0500
> look at weapons like the Remington 7188, the AAI CAWS (Close
> Assault Weapon System, does 450 rpm), or the Beretta M3P
> (which can also be used as a pump-gun for low-powered ammo).

Or my favorite the Atchisson Road Stopper, a full auto 12 guage
with a 28 round drum... powwwww...

Love,

Gossamer
Message no. 9
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:50:31 +0200
> Can someone explain how shotguns do burst fire? I mean do you pump the
> gun three times or does one pump ready three bullets?

There are some modern shotguns which can do this. They are either
blowback operated, as your favorit assault rifle or have a round
magazine, like a revolver (This one is called Jackhammer).
The blowback operated guns tend to misfeed somtimes, so you can also use
them as 'normal' pump action. Thats all
Message no. 10
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <Dreadnaut1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:41:32 -0400
In a message dated 97-06-02 15:22:27 EDT, westlin wrote:

>
[ snip of benefits of pump/autoloaders ]
> I believe the current spas assault shotgun fires burst, and has
> a slide for the reasons above.

Aside from the M4, I know of no real weaons firing bursts. Everything is
either one trigger pull, one bullet, or full auto. Only the M4 offers theone
pull, three round option AFAIK. The SPAS-12, while being capable of either
semi-auto or pump, is not burst capable. Actually, the only FA shotgun I can
think of is the USAS-12, which looks like a really big M-16.

Later-

Duncan
Message no. 11
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:58:24 +1000
> > I believe the current spas assault shotgun fires burst, and has
> > a slide for the reasons above.
>
> Aside from the M4, I know of no real weaons firing bursts. Everything is
> either one trigger pull, one bullet, or full auto. Only the M4 offers theone
> pull, three round option AFAIK. The SPAS-12, while being capable of either
> semi-auto or pump, is not burst capable. Actually, the only FA shotgun I can
> think of is the USAS-12, which looks like a really big M-16.
>

AFAIK, THe HK-G11 assault rifle has three-round selct, as well. I could
be wrong, though.

Marty
Message no. 12
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 02:02:41 +0200
At 10:58 PM 05-06-97 +1000, you wrote:
>> > I believe the current spas assault shotgun fires burst, and has
>> > a slide for the reasons above.
>>
>> Aside from the M4, I know of no real weaons firing bursts. Everything is
>> either one trigger pull, one bullet, or full auto. Only the M4 offers theone
>> pull, three round option AFAIK. The SPAS-12, while being capable of either
>> semi-auto or pump, is not burst capable. Actually, the only FA shotgun I can
>> think of is the USAS-12, which looks like a really big M-16.
>>
>
>AFAIK, THe HK-G11 assault rifle has three-round selct, as well. I could
>be wrong, though.
>
>Marty
>
The infamous Beretta 93-R is a burst capable 9mm pistol with an extended
clip and optional shoulder stock. Basically a wicked little machine pistol.

Crazy

Gyr0
>
Message no. 13
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 21:57:44 -0500
> > Aside from the M4, I know of no real weaons firing bursts.
> > Everything is either one trigger pull, one bullet, or full auto.
> > Only the M4 offers the one pull, three round option AFAIK.
> > The SPAS-12, while being capable of either semi-auto or
> > pump, is not burst capable. Actually, the only FA shotgun
> > I can think of is the USAS-12, which looks like a really big
> > M-16.
>
> AFAIK, THe HK-G11 assault rifle has three-round selct, as well.
> I could be wrong, though.

The G11 does have a 3 round burst, but it's a rifle, not a shotgun,
so you're sort of in the wrong post...

Love,

Gossamer
Message no. 14
From: John D Tarter <shintaro1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:08:57 EDT
On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:58:24 +1000 "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD"
<s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU> writes:
>> > I believe the current spas assault shotgun fires burst, and has
>> > a slide for the reasons above.
>>
>> Aside from the M4, I know of no real weaons firing bursts.
>Everything is
>> either one trigger pull, one bullet, or full auto. Only the M4
>offers theone
>> pull, three round option AFAIK. The SPAS-12, while being capable of
>either
>> semi-auto or pump, is not burst capable. Actually, the only FA
>shotgun I can
>> think of is the USAS-12, which looks like a really big M-16.
>>
>
>AFAIK, THe HK-G11 assault rifle has three-round selct, as well. I
>could
>be wrong, though.
>
>Marty
>

If I remember correctly, the AS-7 assault shotgun in the SRII main gear
chapter has a burst fire option. It also offers a 50 rouind drum. Correct
me if I am wrong.

~SHINTARO
Message no. 15
From: "NATHAN M. CHATFIELD" <s1183038@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:31:31 +1000
>
> If I remember correctly, the AS-7 assault shotgun in the SRII main gear
> chapter has a burst fire option. It also offers a 50 rouind drum. Correct
> me if I am wrong.
>

It does and for that reason it is my favorite shotgun..

Think about it a burst fire shot gun with 50 rounds of ammo.

You don't need to worry about any ammo shortages, unless you are
extreamly parraniod. In which case you simply take along another ammo
drum. If you go through this much ammo you might as well take along a
heavier weapon (eg. a assault rifle or a machine gun).


---Phantom---
Message no. 16
From: Mark Richter <1mdr6590@********.TSTC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:25:53 -0500
----------
> From: NATHAN M. CHATFIELD <s1183038@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
> Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 7:31 PM
>
> >
> > If I remember correctly, the AS-7 assault shotgun in the SRII main gear
> > chapter has a burst fire option. It also offers a 50 rouind drum.
Correct
> > me if I am wrong.
> >
>
> It does and for that reason it is my favorite shotgun..
>
> Think about it a burst fire shot gun with 50 rounds of ammo.
>
> You don't need to worry about any ammo shortages, unless you are
> extreamly parraniod. In which case you simply take along another ammo
> drum. If you go through this much ammo you might as well take along a
> heavier weapon (eg. a assault rifle or a machine gun).
>
>
> ---Phantom---

What is the Damage modifiers for Stinger ROunds with that gun. Or can
those
rounds be used with the AS-7?

{{{QUINTEN}}}
Message no. 17
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 03:43:02 +0000
> > If I remember correctly, the AS-7 assault shotgun in the SRII main gear
> > chapter has a burst fire option. It also offers a 50 rouind drum. Correct
> > me if I am wrong.
> >
>
> It does and for that reason it is my favorite shotgun..
>
> Think about it a burst fire shot gun with 50 rounds of ammo.
>
> You don't need to worry about any ammo shortages, unless you are
> extreamly parraniod. In which case you simply take along another ammo
> drum. If you go through this much ammo you might as well take along a
> heavier weapon (eg. a assault rifle or a machine gun).

One of my players (yes, the one I mentioned in another post who
always played street sams..) also likes the AS-7. IIRC, on a run he
brought it with a drum loaded and two extra drums, 'just to be sure'.

Now, he did use one and a half drum... so it wasn't all paranoia.


--
Rune Fostervoll

"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."
Message no. 18
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 22:42:24 EDT
On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:25:53 -0500 Mark Richter
<1mdr6590@********.TSTC.EDU> writes:
<snip>
<<What is the Damage modifiers for Stinger ROunds with that gun. Or can
those rounds be used with the AS-7?>>

What are 'Stinger rounds'? <takes a moment to check list of ammo types>
All I can find on them is that they're 'Shotgun only' and do stun damage,
but seem to be lighter than normal Stun Rounds. What book or .net
document do they come from?

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:48:12 +0100
MARTIN E. GOTTHARD said on 22:58/ 5 Jun 97...

> > Aside from the M4, I know of no real weaons firing bursts. Everything is
> > either one trigger pull, one bullet, or full auto. Only the M4 offers theone
> > pull, three round option AFAIK. The SPAS-12, while being capable of either
> > semi-auto or pump, is not burst capable. Actually, the only FA shotgun I can
> > think of is the USAS-12, which looks like a really big M-16.
>
> AFAIK, THe HK-G11 assault rifle has three-round selct, as well. I could
> be wrong, though.

The G11 is (was) an assault rifle, not a shotgun (which is what this
thread was about). Loads of assault rifles have three-round burst modes
since the late 1970s, but there are very few fully-automatic shotguns, let
alone burst-capable ones, though I admit I can't place the mentioned M4
shotgun right now... Is this by any chance one of the CAWS candidates of
the 1980s?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:48:12 +0100
L Canthros said on 22:42/ 5 Jun 97...

> What are 'Stinger rounds'? <takes a moment to check list of ammo types>
> All I can find on them is that they're 'Shotgun only' and do stun damage,
> but seem to be lighter than normal Stun Rounds. What book or .net
> document do they come from?

If I'm not mistaken, those are from Chromebook 2, the Cyberpunk 2020
sourcebook that yours truly converted to Shadowrun, and is available from
my web page. They do Stun damage at ranges larger than 3 meters, and
physical damage at up to 3 meters range.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Well that's allright now, you don't listen to me anyway.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 21
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <Dreadnaut1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotguns and burst fire
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:34:44 -0400
In a message dated 97-06-06 07:34:04 EDT, gyro wrote:

> The infamous Beretta 93-R is a burst capable 9mm pistol with an extended
> clip and optional shoulder stock. Basically a wicked little machine
pistol.
>

My bad. Thought the 93R was fully automatic. And I forgot the G-11.

Later-

Duncan

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