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Message no. 1
From: VINDICATOR MINIGUN? I DROP PRONE <downsa@******.EDU>
Subject: shotguns and silencers
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:56:27 EST
hello all,
had a bit of a problem in my last gaming session. a player bought a
mossberg CMDT and equipped it with a Imp. gasvent IV. i disagreed with this
player, with the thought that niether silencers nor gasvents which are placed
on the ends of the barrels, could withstand the force of the exiting round of
a shotgun. however, i cannot find the ruling in the books to back my airy
statement. any help would be appreciated.

Aaron
Message no. 2
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <Dreadnaut1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:31:40 -0400
Aaron asked:
> had a bit of a problem in my last gaming session. a player bought
a
> mossberg CMDT and equipped it with a Imp. gasvent IV. i disagreed with
this
> player, with the thought that niether silencers nor gasvents which are
> placed
> on the ends of the barrels, could withstand the force of the exiting round

> of
> a shotgun. however, i cannot find the ruling in the books to back my airy
> statement. any help would be appreciated.
>

Actually, I'm pretty sure you can Gas Vent a shotgun, however, you can't fire
shot from a Gas Vented shotgun, and only a sound suppressor will keep the
noise down, and that only works with solid slugs as well.

In addition, since shotguns are so damn loud, the sound suppressor is less
efficient.

Later-

Duncan
Message no. 3
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:38:11 -0500
> hello all,
> had a bit of a problem in my last gaming session. a player bought a
> mossberg CMDT and equipped it with a Imp. gasvent IV. i disagreed with this
> player, with the thought that niether silencers nor gasvents which are placed
> on the ends of the barrels, could withstand the force of the exiting round of
> a shotgun. however, i cannot find the ruling in the books to back my airy
> statement. any help would be appreciated.
Actually, Aaron, I don't think there's anything in the rules that says you
can't. You could certainly rule as such however, I've never heard of anyone
trying to silence a shotgun. Silencers for them may just be unavailable, but I
wouldn't say that the 'force of the exiting round' has anything to do with it,
any more than it would for a pistol, rifle, or SMG. Even the Barret I think
can be silenced (check Fields of Fire, if the Barret can be silenced, then
there should be no technical problem silencing a shotgun in like manner).

losthalo
Message no. 4
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:51:01 -0400
<stuff snipped>

losthalo wrote:

> Actually, Aaron, I don't think there's anything in the rules that says
you
> can't. You could certainly rule as such however, I've never heard of
anyone
> trying to silence a shotgun. Silencers for them may just be unavailable,
but I
> wouldn't say that the 'force of the exiting round' has anything to do
with it,
> any more than it would for a pistol, rifle, or SMG. Even the Barret I
think
> can be silenced (check Fields of Fire, if the Barret can be silenced,
then
> there should be no technical problem silencing a shotgun in like manner).

I believe there is sound suppresion for the Barret, but I don't believe
that it can be truly silenced considering the size and all. The only reason
I know that it can be muffled is that one of my Street Sams got it as part
of payment for a run for some guy in the Army who called himself Sgt.
Slaughter for some ungodly reason. Of course the less said about that run
the better.


SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
Message no. 5
From: Andrew H <adh8@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 06:48:44 -0400
First of all, let's be clear on the basic design of silencers/sound
suppressors. Generally, it is a big fat cylinder that you attach to the end
of your closed chamber weapon [ie, revolvers can't be easily silenced] that
contains a number of baffles and absorbant muffles that trap and slow the
jet of gas that erupts from the muzzle. It is this gas which is pushing the
bullet, slug or mass of buckshot forward that possesses all the energy
which can be translated into a *bang*. By compartamentalizing and slowing
this gas, the noise of a gun can be muffled.
Now shotguns, being the ever popular and noisy urban fighting weapons that
they are, seem the prime target for silencing. Bottom line is: with solid
slug rounds, you can do the sound suppressor thing. You can't silence
buckshot because it spreads too much and doesn't maintain the seal needed
as the round travels through the supressor. Even if it did seal the
suppressor, the baffles would get torn up pretty quick, reducing the
suppressor's life rapidly.
The gout of flame and hot gas coming out of a shotgun's business end is
formidable. If you've ever seen a shotgun fired in darkness, you'd see that
the ball of flames is rather large. For this reason, I'd argue against
being able to fire the shotgun in burst or auto fire, just because the
supressor would not be able to handle that much stress at once.
Speaking of size, the size of a shotgun suppessor would be rather
formidable too. Think about a foot or so off the fat end of a softball bat
[maybe more] screwed onto the muzzle. Think no more concealability. It's a
hell of an intimidating sight though. Shotguns are pretty evil looking to
begin with; this should make chrome-boys scream.
Despite all this technical feasiblity, sound suppressed shotguns are
simply crazy. For practical application, the urban soldier should stick to
the silenced pistol or SMG. Shotguns are not subtle weapons, trying to
silence one goes against the whole premise of the weapon. It is simply an
act of monkeying with the rules, min-maxing, munchkin-ism or rules-abusing,
whatever you call it. I'm absolutely certain too, that the cops would come
down pretty hard on this brand of modification ["It's a sporting
modification, really officer!"]. If your PC's press you, let 'em do it, but
give them funny looks. Then give the opposition full-auto shotguns.


Andrew

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Huang '99 A&S Biology
adh8@*******.edu

"If you want to force your visitors to go out to lunch while your page
loads, fill it full of 8-bit dithered GIFS in the foreground, and don't
forget an enormous high-quality JPEG in the background."
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:10:24 +0100
VINDICATOR MINIGUN? I DROP PR said on 20:56/ 6 Jul 97...

> had a bit of a problem in my last gaming session. a player bought a
> mossberg CMDT and equipped it with a Imp. gasvent IV. i disagreed with this
> player, with the thought that niether silencers nor gasvents which are placed
> on the ends of the barrels, could withstand the force of the exiting round of
> a shotgun. however, i cannot find the ruling in the books to back my airy
> statement. any help would be appreciated.

SR doesn't differentiate between weapons, and I find it unlikely a muzzle
brake (gas vent in SR terms) _wouldn't_ work on a shotgun. They work fine
on weapons ranging from pistols to artillery pieces, so why not on a 12
gauge shotgun? The only problem there is with gas venting a shotgun (IRL)
is that shot will likely be caught in the gas vent.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: VINDICATOR MINIGUN? I DROP PRONE <downsa@******.EDU>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:29:25 EST
everyone's been helpful in dealing with shotguns and silencers. however, my
players also had gasvents on various shotguns as well. any idea on the
applications and consequences of gasvents on the end of shotguns?

Aaron
Message no. 8
From: Greg <greg@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:32:03 -0400
At 12:51 AM 7/7/97 -0400, SilverFire wrote:
> I believe there is sound suppresion for the Barret, but I don't
believe
>that it can be truly silenced considering the size and all. The only reason
>I know that it can be muffled is that one of my Street Sams got it as part
>of payment for a run for some guy in the Army who called himself Sgt.
>Slaughter for some ungodly reason. Of course the less said about that run
>the better.
>

I actually know of an infantry Sargeant in the US Army that is named
Slaughter... by birth.

<greg>
Knowing is half the battle
Message no. 9
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:15:10 +0100
In message <970706213139_423842298@*******.mail.aol.com>, Duncan
McNeill-Burton <Dreadnaut1@***.COM> writes
>Actually, I'm pretty sure you can Gas Vent a shotgun, however, you can't fire
>shot from a Gas Vented shotgun, and only a sound suppressor will keep the
>noise down, and that only works with solid slugs as well.

All you need to do is put the shot in a sabot: a plastic carrier to hold
the shot together in the barrel. Once out of the barrel, air resistance
slows the sabot down faster than the shot and you get the usual
spreading effect.

End result? No shot getting caught in the vent.

The wad would probably do the same job anyway. And since the implication
for most "shot" rounds is that they fall between 000 and #4 shot, they
won't get caught in many gas vents anyway.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 10
From: hernandez <hernandez@********.COM>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:34:36 -0700
Hello all, I guess I've lurked long enough. I just had to agree with
Andrew about the shotgun. Seeing as how this is a subject I am familiar
with.

AndrewH said:

<snip>
>It's a hell of an intimidating sight though. Shotguns are pretty evil
looking to
> begin with; this should make chrome-boys scream. Shotguns are not subtle
>weapons, trying to silence one goes against the whole premise of the
>weapon.
<snip>

Being in law enforcement, I can tell you that showing up on scene with a
shotgun is DEFINITELY an attention getter. People tend to not want to argue
with you as much :) But the best is at night when you show up on scene and
bring that old shotgun out of it's carrier and rack a round into the
chamber, (grin) People just tend to stop what they are doing and take
notice. THAT is the universal command of Stop.

In the begining Man created God;
and in the image of Man created he him

hernandez@********.com
Message no. 11
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:56:54 -0400
> I actually know of an infantry Sargeant in the US Army that is named
> Slaughter... by birth.

Poor bastard.

>
> <greg>
Knowing is half the battle
^^^^^^^^
that's bad, real bad 8*).

SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
Message no. 12
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: shotguns and silencers
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:25:42 +0100
In message <009B6DD7.89599F60.54@******.edu>, VINDICATOR MINIGUN? I DROP
PRONE <downsa@******.EDU> writes
>hello all,
> had a bit of a problem in my last gaming session. a player bought a
>mossberg CMDT and equipped it with a Imp. gasvent IV. i disagreed with this
>player, with the thought that niether silencers nor gasvents which are placed
>on the ends of the barrels, could withstand the force of the exiting round of
>a shotgun. however, i cannot find the ruling in the books to back my airy
>statement. any help would be appreciated.

You can get gas vents for shotguns today, so I guess it's manageable.
Page 84 of "Fields of Fire" has rules for silencing shotguns.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Further Reading

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