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Message no. 1
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Shotgun scatter
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 18:28:39 -0500
Does anyone have some good house rules for shotgun scatter? The ones in
SRII are somewhat unrealistic (overpowered) IMHO. Shotguns of today don't
spead nearly as much, and do very little damage once they do spread. Cyber
chokes I can live with (altough todays chokes are not, to my knowledge,
adjustable), but taking out 3 -4 targets with one shell is silly (unless there
pidgions or rats). I'd particularly respect rules that adjusted dodge, as
well. Sigh, this is probably somethoing I'll have to learn to live with (and
expoit).

Sebastian Wiers
Message no. 2
From: WILLIAM FRIERSON <will1am@*****.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 02:40:18 -0700
From: seb@***.RIPCO.COM (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Shotgun scatter

> Does anyone have some good house rules for shotgun scatter? The ones in
>SRII are somewhat unrealistic (overpowered) IMHO. Shotguns of today don't
>spead nearly as much, and do very little damage once they do spread. Cyber
>chokes I can live with (altough todays chokes are not, to my knowledge,
>adjustable), but taking out 3 -4 targets with one shell is silly (unless there
>pidgions or rats). I'd particularly respect rules that adjusted dodge, as
>well. Sigh, this is probably somethoing I'll have to learn to live with (and
>expoit).

Well, most games handle shotshell by rolling for a random number of hits. SR's
abstract combat system doesn't specify where your hit. You could adjust the
power or increase the degradation per hex.

As for adjustable chokes, yes there are adjustable chokes. They are not very
common though. The rate of spread and pattern is determined by the choke, so
it is possible to have a fast rate of spread. There are even chokes that
create a vertical or horizontal pattern for shooting at hostage takers or
spreading the shot out to hit multiple targets.

Later


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
Message no. 3
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 11:51:28 -0400
On Tue, 23 May 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:

> Does anyone have some good house rules for shotgun scatter? The ones in
> SRII are somewhat unrealistic (overpowered) IMHO. Shotguns of today don't
> spead nearly as much, and do very little damage once they do spread. Cyber
> chokes I can live with (altough todays chokes are not, to my knowledge,
> adjustable), but taking out 3 -4 targets with one shell is silly (unless there
> pidgions or rats). I'd particularly respect rules that adjusted dodge, as
> well. Sigh, this is probably somethoing I'll have to learn to live with (and
> expoit).
>
Consider re-reading the rules. Although3-4 targets can be in the
range, the choke would be low enough that, well, the power would be down.
Furthermore, shotguns are very effective against unarmored targets, but
useless against even lightly-armored targets(remember that you use the
best of ballistic or 2ximpact!). So if your players use shotguns, they're
gonne kill civilians easily, but everyone else is gonna laugh at their
face! Not a runner weapons, if you ask me!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 13:41:53 -0400
On Tue, 23 May 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:

> Does anyone have some good house rules for shotgun scatter? The ones in
> SRII are somewhat unrealistic (overpowered) IMHO. Shotguns of today don't
> spead nearly as much, and do very little damage once they do spread.

The house rule that I use works exactly like the book's rule
except that the shot travels *twice* the choke before spreading a further
half meter. Thus, a weapon with a choke of 2 would go 4 meters before
the spread-circle was 1/2 meter in diameter. This results in more
realistic spreads.
Also, shot does not increase the damage code as per typical
flechette rules, and all shotgun damages listed are the same for slug or
shot. The only difference is that shot has a greater chance of hitting
an unarmored or vital area, which is accounted for in the fact that your
target number to hit drops every time the shot spreads, thus yielding more
successes and thus more damage.

> I'd particularly respect rules that adjusted dodge, as well. Sigh,
> this is probably somethoing I'll have to learn to live with (and expoit).

Dodge modifications are taken care of already. As the shot
pattern spreads, the target number to hit goes down, thus giving the
shooter more successes (statistically speaking, that is), thus making the
shot harder to dodge.

Marc
Message no. 5
From: Guy Swartwood <gswartwo@*********.WICHITAKS.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 11:33:00 PDT
>> Shotgun question --

Gurth wrote ---
> Consider re-reading the rules. Although3-4 targets can be in the
>range, the choke would be low enough that, well, the power would be down.
>Furthermore, shotguns are very effective against unarmored targets, but
>useless against even lightly-armored targets(remember that you use the
>best of ballistic or 2ximpact!). So if your players use shotguns, they're
>gonne kill civilians easily, but everyone else is gonna laugh at their
>face! Not a runner weapons, if you ask me!
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane!
---
>--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a
---
>--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC
---
>--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca
---
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah that is true if you use the standard buckshot (my knowledge of terms
for shotguns is limited) or ball bearing size type of rounds. But what if
you use slugs? AP slugs at that? I don't keep up on them, but doesn't that
exist?

Guy Swartwood corporate decker by day, shadowrunner by night
wildman@******.net
gswartwo@*********.wichitaks.attgis.com
Message no. 6
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: shotgun scatter
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 14:44:45 -0500
>
> On Tue, 23 May 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have some good house rules for shotgun scatter? The ones in
> > SRII are somewhat unrealistic (overpowered) IMHO. Shotguns of today don't
> > spead nearly as much, and do very little damage once they do spread.
>
> The house rule that I use works exactly like the book's rule
> except that the shot travels *twice* the choke before spreading a further
> half meter. Thus, a weapon with a choke of 2 would go 4 meters before
> the spread-circle was 1/2 meter in diameter. This results in more
> realistic spreads.
> Also, shot does not increase the damage code as per typical
> flechette rules, and all shotgun damages listed are the same for slug or
> shot. The only difference is that shot has a greater chance of hitting
> an unarmored or vital area, which is accounted for in the fact that your
> target number to hit drops every time the shot spreads, thus yielding more
> successes and thus more damage.

That sounds more reasonable. Thanks for all you posts. THe other suggestions
I got were a house rule dodge system (which we already use), a note on curent
chokebore technology, and other stuff.

Wolfbane and someone else(who comented on shotguns in other games) reminded me
of my primary anoyance. Yes, you loose pentration, and armor works (slightly)
better against flecetes (2x impact is usually about equal to ballistic). But
even if (as is likely) you damage resistance terg is 2, it is stil 2S, and the
firer can stage that up! It is the staging of shotgun blasts that peeves me.
Why does tallent play such a big role? I've never really used a shotgun, but
it would seem by the time 12-50 pellets are spread across 3 meters, you ain't
really aiming. More like a suppressive fire situation, or a grenade (hm,
those get staged also- with the same skill you use to stage up knife
trowing?!). AARRG. Really scarry fellow: phys ad, specialized in shotguns,
magically boosted to 10, rolling 16 or so dice to stage up a spread blast from
a franchi spaz or mossberg 250. Can you generate say, 13 succeses agains a 2?
just from combat pool? If not, you are hit for 2d. Hope yer real tough. If you
folow the nice suggestion of 1/2 meter movementper combat
pool die allocated, you might get under cover before yer left with raw bod to
resist the second blast.
Message no. 7
From: Susan Sherman <SSHERMAN@****.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 22:30:37 -0500
On Wed, 24 May 1995, Menard Steve wrote:

> Consider re-reading the rules. Although3-4 targets can be in the
> range, the choke would be low enough that, well, the power would be down.
> Furthermore, shotguns are very effective against unarmored targets, but
> useless against even lightly-armored targets(remember that you use the
> best of ballistic or 2ximpact!). So if your players use shotguns, they're
> gonne kill civilians easily, but everyone else is gonna laugh at their
> face! Not a runner weapons, if you ask me!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
> --- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
> --- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
> --- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Oh, I don't know about that. I think it really depends on the
shotgun. Go for the Defiance T-250, it does 10S damage, it uses slugs and
with any type of explosive ammo it becomes real nasty. That's IMO of
course and the opinion of my demolitions expert (one of my few lightly
cybered characters. 8*) )

SilverFire


"Why is destiny always beckoning to every PUNK who comes along?"

Wolverine
_Scorpio Rising_
Message no. 8
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: shotgun scatter
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 23:02:33 -0400
On Wed, 24 May 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:

> ...it is stil 2S, and the firer can stage that up! It is the staging
> of shotgun blasts that peeves me. Why does tallent play such a big
> role? I've never really used a shotgun, but it would seem by the time
> 12-50 pellets are spread across 3 meters, you ain't really aiming.

The standard double-aught buck shot is either nine or twelve .22
caliber pellets, depending on the manufacturer. Bird shot is
substantially more, but the pellets are much smaller and would do little
damage against man-sized targets at any significant range. Thus, with
only nine small pellets flying in a fairly well controlled cone, skill is
a factor. I've fired shotguns, and they are not necessarily easy to hit
with.
Also, the staging thing is important because of the nature of the
shotgun's damage. Many small pellets hitting a target have a much
greater chance of hitting some vital or unprotected area than just one
bullet. Also, multiple ballistic wounds yields more widespread tissue
damage, which is both more dangerous to the target and more difficult to
treat.
Finally, the horrendous amount of damage that shotguns can dole
out in SRII is fairly representative of "Real Life" (TM). How many
people have *you* seen take twelve-guage buckshot in the chest and live
to tell about it? And if they did live, chances are real good that they
were a) knocked on their ass and b) hospitalized for a very long time.
Why do you think the cops keep a shotgun bolted to the dash of the car?
Answer: because they're damned effective.

Marc
Message no. 9
From: WILLIAM FRIERSON <will1am@*****.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 00:36:08 -0700
From: jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU (Marc A Renouf)
Subject: Re: shotgun scatter

>damage against man-sized targets at any significant range. Thus, with
>only nine small pellets flying in a fairly well controlled cone, skill is
>a factor. I've fired shotguns, and they are not necessarily easy to hit
>with.

I agree 110%. It does take skill to hit something with a shotgun. People
seem to think that a shotgun is a cureall for people who don't know
how to shoot.

> Finally, the horrendous amount of damage that shotguns can dole
>out in SRII is fairly representative of "Real Life" (TM). How many
>people have *you* seen take twelve-guage buckshot in the chest and live
>to tell about it? And if they did live, chances are real good that they
>were a) knocked on their ass and b) hospitalized for a very long time.
>Why do you think the cops keep a shotgun bolted to the dash of the car?
>Answer: because they're damned effective.

I've seen some morgue photos of shotgun wounds, and they are nasty (one
guy's head was so deformed, it looked like a cartoon where the artist
grabbed the outline of the face and stretched it in 3 different spots).
(Sorry for those of you with delicate stomachs :) ). Not a good thing
to recieve. Add slugs, and you've got a reliable penetrator that will
take someone out in a car or behind a door. For short ranges, they're
very good weapons.

Someone said that they weren't good weapons for 'runners. I disagree.
They work very well with slugs in them. And ammo load can be tailored
for specific runs, something hard to do with handguns or smgs.

Later


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Frierson Internet: WILL1AM@*****.asu.edu
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 10:42:46 +0200
>So if your players use shotguns, they're
>gonne kill civilians easily, but everyone else is gonna laugh at their
>face! Not a runner weapons, if you ask me!

More one for law enforcement troopers :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 10:42:56 +0200
>Gurth wrote ---

I didn't, Steve Menard did :)

>Yeah that is true if you use the standard buckshot (my knowledge of terms
>for shotguns is limited) or ball bearing size type of rounds. But what if
>you use slugs? AP slugs at that? I don't keep up on them, but doesn't that
>exist?

Slugs exist, some tungsten AP slugs can penetrate the side armor of APCs. I
always take it that slugs are the normal rounds fired by Shadowrun shotguns,
but that you can load it with buckshot if you want to.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
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P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 10:44:04 +0200
>Add slugs, and you've got a reliable penetrator that will
>take someone out in a car or behind a door.

Small-caliber weapons work too for those kinds of things :) I doubt many car
doors stop 9mm rounds, in fact just about the only parts of a car that are
able to stop bullets are the engine block and maybe the chassis. First
lesson of taking cover: don't hide behind a car door :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
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P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 13
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 10:40:57 +0100
On Wed, 24 May 1995, Marc A Renouf wrote:

> On Wed, 24 May 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:
> > of shotgun blasts that peeves me. Why does tallent play such a big
> > role? I've never really used a shotgun, but it would seem by the time
> > 12-50 pellets are spread across 3 meters, you ain't really aiming.
>
> The standard double-aught buck shot is either nine or twelve .22
> caliber pellets, depending on the manufacturer. Bird shot is
> substantially more, but the pellets are much smaller and would do little
> damage against man-sized targets at any significant range. Thus, with
> only nine small pellets flying in a fairly well controlled cone, skill is
> a factor. I've fired shotguns, and they are not necessarily easy to hit
> with.
How's this for a compromise. The firer is presumably aiming to hit
someone, and therefore the damage should be staged up (the point being
you hit him with *more* of the shot), but against those who aren't teh
specified target attack success *do not* stage damage up, instead they
only cancel dodge successes (reflecting being quicker to shoot than the
others are to dodge). If no one in particular is the focus of the attack
then no one receives more than the base damage.

Oh and by the way I also agree about grenades being staged up.
Personally I just say, attack successes reduce scatter and thats it. But
to compensate this I do tack on another damage category or two at close
range (close varies with the type of grenade).

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"We're falling from ecstacy, like Changlings."
-Fields of the Nephilim, Psychonaut Lib 111.
Message no. 14
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 11:56:36 BST
Ah, but a shotgun with threat pool, and a high skill is great,
if you have more dice than them, and your choke gets the TNo
down to 2's, you can really kick some runner butt!

It's just a matter of hogging the dice, and going for low target
numbers, so heavily armoured wimps can't get off scott-free, and
that's what I like about the SR-II armour rules

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 15
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 12:40:44 GMT
How much they scatter with flechect/ball e.t.c. does not tend to
bother runners.

It's customised Franchie spass 22 loaded with IPEX burst fire, ah yes
15D, smart, customised, =2's to hit at firearms +1 dice, fully recoil
compensated is about 6 successes (thats before combat pool), who
needs a second shot the targets history even if wearing security
armour. If they use combat pool it gets simply terminal.

The only reason i have not had to put up with this thing loading APDS
yet is i simply said NO!, ok the tactic if fine but i want the
badguys to have a vague chance if they manage partial cover without
having to tool the rules all the way to get enough armour. Never mind
the likely reaction of the rest of the players if i then used such a
gun back at the party, the guy with APDS in an AK98 was sufficiently
unpopular.

Yes these things make superb weapons.
runners : will remove nearly anything im 1 hit.
the law / corps : will hurt runners bad, like they are powerful
enough that not everything gets dodged.

Mark
Message no. 16
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 10:00:42 -0400
On Wed, 24 May 1995, Guy Swartwood wrote:

> >> Shotgun question --
>
> Gurth wrote ---
> > Consider re-reading the rules. Although3-4 targets can be in the
> >range, the choke would be low enough that, well, the power would be down.
> >Furthermore, shotguns are very effective against unarmored targets, but
> >useless against even lightly-armored targets(remember that you use the
> >best of ballistic or 2ximpact!). So if your players use shotguns, they're
> >gonne kill civilians easily, but everyone else is gonna laugh at their
> >face! Not a runner weapons, if you ask me!
> >
>
> Yeah that is true if you use the standard buckshot (my knowledge of terms
> for shotguns is limited) or ball bearing size type of rounds. But what if
> you use slugs? AP slugs at that? I don't keep up on them, but doesn't that
> exist?
>
>
Well, in SR slugs are treated as normal bulletsw, as they do not
spread or anything. Those are good weapons, its te bullets(the spreading
ones) that are bullsh*t!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 17
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 10:06:37 -0400
On Wed, 24 May 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:

[stuff about shot rounds]
>
> That sounds more reasonable. Thanks for all you posts. THe other suggestions
> I got were a house rule dodge system (which we already use), a note on curent
> chokebore technology, and other stuff.
>
> Wolfbane and someone else(who comented on shotguns in other games) reminded me
> of my primary anoyance. Yes, you loose pentration, and armor works (slightly)
> better against flecetes (2x impact is usually about equal to ballistic). But
> even if (as is likely) you damage resistance terg is 2, it is stil 2S, and the
> firer can stage that up! It is the staging of shotgun blasts that peeves me.
> Why does tallent play such a big role? I've never really used a shotgun, but
> it would seem by the time 12-50 pellets are spread across 3 meters, you ain't
> really aiming. More like a suppressive fire situation, or a grenade (hm,
> those get staged also- with the same skill you use to stage up knife
> trowing?!). AARRG. Really scarry fellow: phys ad, specialized in shotguns,
> magically boosted to 10, rolling 16 or so dice to stage up a spread blast from
> a franchi spaz or mossberg 250. Can you generate say, 13 succeses agains a 2?
> just from combat pool? If not, you are hit for 2d. Hope yer real tough. If you
> folow the nice suggestion of 1/2 meter movementper combat
> pool die allocated, you might get under cover before yer left with raw bod to
> resist the second blast.
>
So, I'm not the only one with this problem! By the way, the same
thing happens with grenades! Yes a skilled attacker will kill half an
army while a newbie wont, and they'll put the grenade in the same place!
I tried saying that grenades do not stage up, but then they're too easy
to resist. Putting the damage to deadly is not good either. What would be
needed is something that reduces the damage level AND the power level. A
a last note, shot rounds get their damage reduces one level against
armored targets.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 18
From: Menard Steve <menars@***.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 10:10:03 -0400
On Wed, 24 May 1995, Susan Sherman wrote:

> On Wed, 24 May 1995, Menard Steve wrote:
>
> > Consider re-reading the rules. Although3-4 targets can be in the
> > range, the choke would be low enough that, well, the power would be down.
> > Furthermore, shotguns are very effective against unarmored targets, but
> > useless against even lightly-armored targets(remember that you use the
> > best of ballistic or 2ximpact!). So if your players use shotguns, they're
> > gonne kill civilians easily, but everyone else is gonna laugh at their
> > face! Not a runner weapons, if you ask me!
> >
>
> Oh, I don't know about that. I think it really depends on the
> shotgun. Go for the Defiance T-250, it does 10S damage, it uses slugs and
> with any type of explosive ammo it becomes real nasty. That's IMO of
> course and the opinion of my demolitions expert (one of my few lightly
> cybered characters. 8*) )
>
> SilverFire
>
Wait a minute! What do you mean by explosivce ammo? Does your GM allow
shot rounds(you know, those who spread) of any type? Sounds very
unrealistic to me! I'd allow only normal and maybe gel rounds to be
available as shot rounds, not explosive!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
--- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
--- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
--- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 19
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 15:47:03 BST
Steve Menard :-
> Wait a minute! What do you mean by explosivce ammo? Does your GM allow
> shot rounds(you know, those who spread) of any type? Sounds very
> unrealistic to me! I'd allow only normal and maybe gel rounds to be
> available as shot rounds, not explosive!

Explosive buckshot? you're right chummer, no way.

Mind you, Gel and Training Gel (Low-power gel, even drekkier damage)
-style buckshot should be possible... I use them already.

Phil (Renegade)

Oh and it's buckshot doesn't automatically stage UP against unarmoured
targets, lightly different thing, but it can make a difference.
Message no. 20
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 01:18:27 +0930
Menard Steve wrote:
> > shotgun. Go for the Defiance T-250, it does 10S damage, it uses slugs and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > with any type of explosive ammo it becomes real nasty. That's IMO of
> > course and the opinion of my demolitions expert (one of my few lightly
> > cybered characters. 8*) )
> >
> > SilverFire
> >
> Wait a minute! What do you mean by explosivce ammo? Does your GM allow
> shot rounds(you know, those who spread) of any type? Sounds very
> unrealistic to me! I'd allow only normal and maybe gel rounds to be
> available as shot rounds, not explosive!

Slug rounds can be any type... (Oh, I allow flechette rounds as shot, as
well... after all, it's already fairly similar.)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 21
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 17:00:15 BST
The original (? I think) flechette rounds wer shotgun loads used in
Vietnam (again, I think, I;m not an expert), they spread out a bit.
> Should there be two different types? Shotgun flechette-spread, and
Shotgun Flechette-non spread, or does the round automatically spread
out?


Phil (Renegade)

Why is it that whenever I try to reply to the list while reading one
of Robert's messages, that my mailer tries to send it directly two
his account, and then it bounces? rehotrical question BTW, just venting.
Message no. 22
From: SilverFire <SSHERMAN@****.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 16:41:32 -0500
On Thu, 25 May 1995, Menard Steve wrote:



> Wait a minute! What do you mean by explosivce ammo? Does your GM allow
> shot rounds(you know, those who spread) of any type? Sounds very
> unrealistic to me! I'd allow only normal and maybe gel rounds to be
> available as shot rounds, not explosive!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- |\_/| Still The One and Only Wolfbane! ---
> --- |o o| " Hey! Why ya lookin' at me so weird? Ain't ya 'ver seen a ---
> --- \ / decker witha horn ?" --- Scy, Troll decker with a CC ---
> --- 0 Steve Menard menars@***.UMontreal.Ca ---
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

The reason why he allowed the explosive rounds is because the
Defiance T-250 fires slugs, not shot. He won't allow explosive for shotguns
that just use shot. That's the reason why I went for the Defiance, that and
the damgae code 8*)

SilverFire

"Why is destiny always beckoning to every PUNK who comes along?"

Wolverine
_Scorpio Rising_
Message no. 23
From: Jonathan Hurley <JHURLEY1@****.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 20:25:40 -0500
> Wait a minute! What do you mean by explosivce ammo? Does your GM allow
> shot rounds(you know, those who spread) of any type? Sounds very
> unrealistic to me! I'd allow only normal and maybe gel rounds to be
> available as shot rounds, not explosive!

Given that the base damage in SRII is given assuming slug, not shot, I
don't think I'm too far off base in allowing explosive slug ammo for a
shotgu, especiallly when they exist today. See a Blammo Ammo catalog
sometime.

She's talking about slug, not shot, after all.
Message no. 24
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: shotgun scatter
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 10:45:20 +0200
>Why is it that whenever I try to reply to the list while reading one
>of Robert's messages, that my mailer tries to send it directly two
>his account

Probably because he has a "Reply-To: bob@************" field in the header
of the message...

>and then it bounces?

Don't know :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 25
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 11:03:51 +0200
> The reason why he allowed the explosive rounds is because the
>Defiance T-250 fires slugs, not shot. He won't allow explosive for shotguns
>that just use shot. That's the reason why I went for the Defiance, that and
>the damgae code 8*)

In my campaign, any shotgun fires slugs unless you expressly load up with
buckshot (I'm getting a feeling of deja-write here :). Maybe some nice new
ammo in the form of specialized buckshot variants? Maybe someone _has_
invented (by 2055) exploding buckshot...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 26
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 11:03:54 +0200
>See a Blammo Ammo catalog sometime.

This reminds me: is the Tarot Firearms catalog finished yet? I think I've
got one of the incomplete versions on my HD, but I'd love to see the
finished result...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 27
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: shotgun scatter
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 12:12:17 BST
gurth wrote

> Probably because he has a "Reply-To: bob@************" field in the header
> of the message...

Hey, whaddayaknow, I never noticed that before, thanks.

PHil (Renegade, who might get the letter off first time now)
Message no. 28
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Shotgun scatter
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 15:24:47 -0500
>
> > Wait a minute! What do you mean by explosivce ammo? Does your GM allow
> > shot rounds(you know, those who spread) of any type? Sounds very
> > unrealistic to me! I'd allow only normal and maybe gel rounds to be
> > available as shot rounds, not explosive!
>
> Given that the base damage in SRII is given assuming slug, not shot, I
> don't think I'm too far off base in allowing explosive slug ammo for a
> shotgu, especiallly when they exist today. See a Blammo Ammo catalog
> sometime.
>
> She's talking about slug, not shot, after all.
>
Yes, when I posted that my GM allows any ammo type in a shotgun, I also meant
as modified slugs, not as shot/scatter rounds. But, hey, explosive buckshot
isn't that silly. Redundant, maybe...
Iv'e never considered gel shot either. Would fit perfect in our campaign (I'm
reckless and tend to take on crouds and fight indoors, but don't like to kill.)

Sebaripco.com

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