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Message no. 1
From: Jan-bart van Beek <flake@***.DDS.NL>
Subject: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 16:31:36 +0100
Great idea, that silent bullet. Did ya think of that one yourself or does
this baby really exist.

BTW (By the way, for the few of you who don't know what it means) how
about combining it with subsonic bullet technology and a high-tech silencer.
I think that would make the bullet soundless and flashless.

Another point, subsonic bullets are less lethal. This is because high
velocity bullets disrupt the blood stream in your vessels, they create a
tiny wave of blood streaming in the opposite direction. And what does
that do ? It makes your heart say 'plurpslurpglurp' and 'bang', your dead.
Interesting side effect of high velocity bullets is that it does not
matter if you get shot in your head, chest, foot ar hand. It's the tiny
wave that kills ya, not the bullet itself. Nice huh !

Cornflake is watching you.

--------------------------------------------------------------
| Beware of what you ask for you may recieve it |
--------------------------------------------------------------

**** The Cornflake Killer Strikes again ****
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 10:53:05 -0500
>>>>> "Jan-bart" == Jan-bart van Beek <flake@***.DDS.NL>
writes:

Jan-bart> Great idea, that silent bullet. Did ya think of that one yourself
Jan-bart> or does this baby really exist.

It doesn't exist.

Jan-bart> BTW (By the way, for the few of you who don't know what it means)
Jan-bart> how about combining it with subsonic bullet technology and a
Jan-bart> high-tech silencer. I think that would make the bullet soundless
Jan-bart> and flashless.

These absolutes are impossible to achieve. You can get damn close to silent
and flashless, but you cannot completely eliminate the noise via mechanical
means.

Jan-bart> Another point, subsonic bullets are less lethal.

Not by much.

Jan-bart> This is because high velocity bullets disrupt the blood stream in
Jan-bart> your vessels, they create a tiny wave of blood streaming in the
Jan-bart> opposite direction.

Um, no. Bullets work by transferring lots of kinetic energy. This causes
deformation of the target, which if living, causes major tissue damage,
blood loss, and ultimately shock (assuming something vital to continued
survival is damaged, like the brain or heart). That is what kills.

What you describe is something similiar to hydrostatic shock, another myth,
because you can only get such an effect if the bullet is travelling faster
than sound. I forget the exact numbers, but the speed of sound through the
human body is faster than most bullets with the possible exception of the
.22LR and the 4.7mm flechette fired by the H&K G-11, both of which will
want to just penetrate and keep on going (or, in the case of the .22, it'll
bounce off of a bone or just stop on impact).

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> |Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Message no. 3
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 08:45:38 -0800
On Wed, 2 Nov 1994, Jan-bart van Beek wrote:

> Another point, subsonic bullets are less lethal. This is because high
> velocity bullets disrupt the blood stream in your vessels, they create a
> tiny wave of blood streaming in the opposite direction. And what does
> that do ? It makes your heart say 'plurpslurpglurp' and 'bang', your dead.
> Interesting side effect of high velocity bullets is that it does not
> matter if you get shot in your head, chest, foot ar hand. It's the tiny
> wave that kills ya, not the bullet itself. Nice huh !

This theory, called Hydrostatic Shock, works great ... in theory.
In practice, the human body tissues are amazingly flexible and
can adjust to the different pressures incredibly rapidly, so there is no
pressure wave that reaches the heart and stops it.
So, actually, it is the tissue damage and trauma from tissue
damage that is the main factor in kinetic energy poisoning.
You might want to read up on the Wound Ballistics Laboratory at
Ft. Aberdeen, Maryland, as they did decades of research on this very topic.

> Cornflake is watching you.

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 4
From: Skrub <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 12:32:41 -0500
>Interesting side effect of high velocity bullets is that it does not
>matter if you get shot in your head, chest, foot ar hand. It's the tiny
>wave that kills ya, not the bullet itself. Nice huh !

I thought hydrostatic shock was disproved?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian McCallister Skrub <mccllstr@*****.bucknell.edu>
---------------------------
Insert Quote 1 about here
---------------------------
Message no. 5
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 14:23:27 -0500
That is known as the hydrodynamic shock kill. There is a special type of
bullet that takes advantage of that. Made out of plastic, does gods of
soft tissue damage from h.d. shock, but at 100 or so yards you can
practically pick it out of the sky.
Message no. 6
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 14:27:30 -0500
That silent bullet is a lot like a type of silent shotgun shell that I've
seen. Basically a finned slug round that contains the gasses in the shell
it leaves behind. Only problem is you need a breech load shotgun.
Message no. 7
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 14:31:38 -0500
On Wed, 2 Nov 1994, Skrub wrote:

> >Interesting side effect of high velocity bullets is that it does not
> >matter if you get shot in your head, chest, foot ar hand. It's the tiny
> >wave that kills ya, not the bullet itself. Nice huh !
>
> I thought hydrostatic shock was disproved?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian McCallister Skrub <mccllstr@*****.bucknell.edu>
> ---------------------------
> Insert Quote 1 about here
> ---------------------------
>
The bullet I was talking about was developed by a company that studied
those ballistic files from Aberdeen and used them to specifically develop
a bullet that did produce a hydrostatic shock. It was specifically
designed for police use and aboard airplanes. I don't know the physics or
anything, but basically it does disgusting amounts of damage to flesh
targets, but very little to harder substances (like airplane walls). It
also does not travel very far, to prevent collateral damage.
Message no. 8
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 12:09:53 -0800
On Wed, 2 Nov 1994, Alex van der Kleut wrote:

> The bullet I was talking about was developed by a company that studied

Otherwise known as the Glaser Safety Round.
About $12 for 6 of them, but they have extremely high lethality.

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 9
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 15:18:50 -0500
>>>>> "Alex" == Alex van der Kleut
<sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU> writes:

Alex> The bullet I was talking about was developed by a company that
Alex> studied those ballistic files from Aberdeen and used them to
Alex> specifically develop a bullet that did produce a hydrostatic shock.

Well, that's BS, because it ain't hydrostatic shock (see one of my previous
posts on the topic). You can't get hydrostatic shock unless the projectile
exceeds the speed of sound through the medium, ie, the human body, and most
bullets don't. These bullets don't, unless they're .22LR/Stinger, or 4.7mm
flechettes, which I doubt.

Alex> It was specifically designed for police use and aboard airplanes. I
Alex> don't know the physics or anything, but basically it does disgusting
Alex> amounts of damage to flesh targets, but very little to harder
Alex> substances (like airplane walls). It also does not travel very far,
Alex> to prevent collateral damage.

It sounds like you're talking Glaser Safety Rounds or something like that.
These are pre-fragmented rounds which pretty much turn your weapon into a
small shotgun, with lots of KE transfer to soft targets, resulting in
massive tissue damage.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> |Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |Earth, presumably from outer space.
Message no. 10
From: The GREAT Cornholio <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 23:47:46 -0700
RE: All this silencer biz...

I've got the perfect solution. If you have seen Hot Shots: Part Deux...

Just reach into a tub of bullets, grab a handful , and throw them at
people. It worked in Hot Shots, and there's no sonic boom to worry about
and no expading gases!

Just a joke... :-)

Mike aka Spellslinger
Message no. 11
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 08:16:51 -0500
On Wed, 2 Nov 1994, The GREAT Cornholio (Mike aka Spellsinger) wrote:

> I've got the perfect solution. If you have seen Hot Shots: Part Deux...
>
> Just reach into a tub of bullets, grab a handful , and throw them at
> people. It worked in Hot Shots, and there's no sonic boom to worry about
> and no expading gases!

I just had a strange thought, probably because my coffeepot all
but exploded this morning and I'm running on fumes (never, _never_ put
instant cocoa in with your drip brewer!)
Just what level of boosted reflexes would you need to throw a
bullet (perhaps birdshot would be best) fast enough to penetrate flesh?
I'm not even thinking about armor yet...just flesh.
Though this idea is inherently a munchkinous joke, it would still
be an interesting thing to know....

/-----------------\
| J.D. Falk | All the world's indeed a stage
| jdfalk@****.com | And, damnit, I'm a stagehand.
\-----------------/
Message no. 12
From: Firepower <DVANDERS@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Silent bullets
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 15:24:51 EST
<J.D. on throwing bullets...> <too polite to rave>

One, getting the speed up would rip your arm out of the socket with
inertia. A bullet moves about 1100 feet per second--I truly doubt that
any human, no matter how augmented, could ever acheive a throwing
speed above Mach 2.

Two, I will admit that the idea of throwing with the highly augmented
has merit. However, remember that the strength of the person
controls the amount of damage. Speed doesn't seem to enter into the
equasion--I'm not sure why. Damian? (correction--it does control
how often someone can throw the object in question.)

Three, The actual mass of the thrown object seems to be a major
criteria also--the combination of mass and inertia is what makes an
object effective. I guess that the best idea for working out some sort
of stats would be to use the thrown weapons chart as a base.

But what kind of damage a troll does when he throws your new
Yamaha at you I don't know.


<HEADACHE!!!>
Firepower

Further Reading

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Thwap!