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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Simsense
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:45:35 -0600
What categories of simesense are there in Shadowrun? I'm asking
because I was thinking that comedy wouldn't translate very well.
What's fun about comedy is to watch it happen to someone else. Being
the "target" of a comical routine could only be enjoyed by a sadist,
IMO (or maybe someone who is very optimistic).

For example, watching the three stooges is fun. Being one of the
three stooges while wearing a simsense would not.

A comedy simsense could be written where the viewer is a secondary
character that travels with the main character, in which the
secondary character laughs his ass off everytime something bad
happens to the main character (or vice versa). Anyway, you get my
point.

Now subjects like drama, romance, fright, mystery, and adventure
could be done well and attract a large audience.

Another point - if comedies are no longer produced, that might be one
of the reasons that society has taken a couple of steps back down the
ladder.

-David
--
Percent of Americans who believe spanking children is okay - 84%
Percent of Americans who believe spanking the monkey is okay - 18%
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 2
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:15:31 -0700
---David Buehrer wrote:
>
> What categories of simesense are there in Shadowrun? I'm asking
> because I was thinking that comedy wouldn't translate very well.
> What's fun about comedy is to watch it happen to someone else. Being
> the "target" of a comical routine could only be enjoyed by a sadist,
>
> IMO (or maybe someone who is very optimistic).
There are other possibilities besides Three Stooges style comedy
> For example, watching the three stooges is fun. Being one of the
> three stooges while wearing a simsense would not.

No more sadistic than being a character in a horror film.

Besides, you're only refering to slapstick comedy here. I think comedy
simsense where you'd be in the audience of the Improv, or watching
Robin Williams live at the Met could be popular. Or how about a
simsense of Jim Carry in The Mask from his point of view? Some might
even like Cheech and Chong style from their side of the bong. Plus,
some out there may be into the Three Stooges as you described, keep in
mind they were recognized as comic geniuses and the actors didn't feel
the pain of the stunts they were portraying.

Also, not all simsenses would be recorded as first person, and in
others it jumps from point of view to point of view, much like cutting
from one scene to another. Perhaps you should read Dead Air as it
would give you a good insight into how simsense is presented.

<snip>

> Now subjects like drama, romance, fright, mystery, and adventure
> could be done well and attract a large audience.

Action like Die Hard or Daylight still has the main character getting
seriously beat up and smacked around. Likewise for most characters in
horror. So the same sadistic idea you described could be placed here
as well., but I don't agree with your view.

> Another point - if comedies are no longer produced, that might be one
> of the reasons that society has taken a couple of steps back down the
> ladder.

I think they're being produced. Perhaps they may be a bent towards
darker comedy, as every society seems to disply during times of
revolution and change...but I can't see the 6th world not using such a
major entertainment outlet as a comic venue.

@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 3
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:23:56 -0600
At 12:45 6/20/97 -0600, you wrote:
>A comedy simsense could be written where the viewer is a secondary
>character that travels with the main character, in which the
>secondary character laughs his ass off everytime something bad
>happens to the main character (or vice versa). Anyway, you get my
>point.

Yup..comedy simsense would not be popular, while comedy flatscreen still is
(Reinforced by Shadowbeat, here :)

>Now subjects like drama, romance, fright, mystery, and adventure
>could be done well and attract a large audience.

Add to this the ever present XXX, which is probably a whole lot more X'er
than it is now..

>Another point - if comedies are no longer produced, that might be one
>of the reasons that society has taken a couple of steps back down the
>ladder.

Heh.. perhaps.. but really, the type of people in general that are putting
our society a few steps back probably don't watch comedies anyways..
Generally. Very Generally :)

I had been planning to do a Simsense type catalog for TSS, listing new
products, with descriptions, that sorta stuff. *Tosses something else on
the pile-o-stuff*

>Percent of Americans who believe spanking children is okay - 84%
>Percent of Americans who believe spanking the monkey is okay - 18%

I guess they'res alot of people who don't like some of the things they do,
then <g>

-Adam
"The list is back!"
--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org -- fro@***.ab.ca
<Jestyr> Hey, people who live in glass IRC shouldn't throw netsplits. Or
whatever. :)
-
"Leading by example" in Target:UCAS
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:38:11 -0600
Loki wrote:
|
| ---David Buehrer wrote:
| >
| > What categories of simesense are there in Shadowrun? I'm asking
| > because I was thinking that comedy wouldn't translate very well.
| > What's fun about comedy is to watch it happen to someone else. Being
| > the "target" of a comical routine could only be enjoyed by a sadist,
|
| Besides, you're only refering to slapstick comedy here. I think comedy
| simsense where you'd be in the audience of the Improv, or watching
| Robin Williams live at the Met could be popular. Or how about a
| simsense of Jim Carry in The Mask from his point of view? Some might
| even like Cheech and Chong style from their side of the bong. Plus,
| some out there may be into the Three Stooges as you described, keep in
| mind they were recognized as comic geniuses and the actors didn't feel
| the pain of the stunts they were portraying.

Sorry, my fault. I'm talking about the cutting edge, first person
simsense productions. On the other hand, I could see movies like the
Mask and Cheech and Chong being done. Hmm... how would you like to
be a Muppet? :)

| Perhaps you should read Dead Air as it
| would give you a good insight into how simsense is presented.

Thanks for the tip (I gotta read those novels).

| > Now subjects like drama, romance, fright, mystery, and adventure
| > could be done well and attract a large audience.
|
| Action like Die Hard or Daylight still has the main character getting
| seriously beat up and smacked around. Likewise for most characters in
| horror.

On the other hand (woa, deja vu), people buy BTL chips with emotion
feedback loops like pain and fear. So there's a market for it.

| I think they're being produced. Perhaps they may be a bent towards
| darker comedy, as every society seems to disply during times of
| revolution and change...but I can't see the 6th world not using such a
| major entertainment outlet as a comic venue.

Okay, you've changed my mind :) I just couldn't figure out how they
could do comedy with first person simsense. Your wisdom is truely
bountiful.

-David
--
Percent of Americans who believe spanking children is okay - 84%
Percent of Americans who believe spanking the monkey is okay - 18%
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 5
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:02:02 EST
This is a great place to mention a run/NPC idea I've had:

First: There is a second tier corp in my world known as
Heliodyne....produces Simsense, and related goods. Now, In an effort
to get a new product, Heliodyne has found a guy with a certain
personality, and outfitted him with a ton of cyber, including a
simsense rig.

Complication 1: This guy was found in a sanitarium.

Heliodyne is searching to record new sensations, new variations on
emotions, plus some great fight scenes. Solution: Find someone who
is truly emotionally melodramatic, not afraid to fight, and who can
believe in a false plot so well, it is REAL to him. Outfit him with
some goodies, and there you go. But what to do with him? hmm... We
can't have him stage a fight, because it'd be to real to him to be
safe....

How about we arrange a little deal with Lone Star: We "take care" of
a few problematic gangs, and they overlook our involvement? Sounds
good. Now our guy can beat the hell out of some gangers, getting
great emotions, and as long as our techs carefully filter out truly
incriminating stuff, no one will care about a few SINless corpses
here and there. We'll even give our man a great (made up) reason to
fight them, so we can add in vengeance, justification, perhaps a
little exhiliration, enough to keep the fight scenes from being too
evil.

Hmmm....But even with the enhancements we give him, this guy could
get beaten by a talented gang, esp. since he IS a certified wacko.
But we can't get him support without creating an opt. for blackmail
or security leak. I know, how about we hire a few runners! They
normally don't have enough credibility to harm our rep. And just to
make sure, we won't tell them. We'll have our guy hire them as part
of the plot....they won't know it isn't real. If they die...oh well,
they are expendable.

Thus, Doug Danger is born. His first mission: his daughter has been
kidnapped by organ leggers (his view of organ leggers will reflect
general ignorance and paranoia more than the truth. Re: the stolen
kidneys thing)....Oh yeah, they also deal BTL too. First he'll have
to take out a gang ....but he'll "find out" from their leader that a
second gang took her (only after they beat up the first gang
though....) and they'll go trash the second....

So on and so forth.

What do you all think? Doug Danger will invent enemies and
conspiracies for the runners to combat and figure out....and he'll be
recording everything...

If things go well enough to print, the runners may end up as "unnamed
actors" in a new simsense release!
Message no. 6
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:12:32 -0500
At 05:02 PM 6/20/97 EST, Brett Borger wrote:

<snipped story idea>

Good concept. Reminds me a lot of the Johnson in _Neuromancer_. I can't
remember the guys name right now, but I'm sure I can find it over the
weekend. Anyway, it was similiar to your Doug Danger character. An AI
found him when he was in an insane asylum and had been put in a program to
help people recover from schizophrenia by using computers. The character
in Neuromancer was the only one to succeed. The AI manipulated this guy,
and brainwashed him, using him for his own nefarious purposes.

I don't know if you've read Neuromancer or not, but I'd suggest it for your
campaign. May give you some good ideas. YMMV.

BTW: totally off the topic, but I was reading the FAQ and noticed Bob
Ooton's name in it (Topcat). I was talking to him the other day, and he'
thinking of rejoining the list. Just a friendly warning. :)


Mike Broadwater
"I don't care if you don't like my manners. I don't like them much myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Message no. 7
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:33:57 -0400
> Thus, Doug Danger is born. His first mission: his daughter has been
> kidnapped by organ leggers (his view of organ leggers will reflect
> general ignorance and paranoia more than the truth. Re: the stolen
> kidneys thing)....Oh yeah, they also deal BTL too. First he'll have
> to take out a gang ....but he'll "find out" from their leader that a
> second gang took her (only after they beat up the first gang
> though....) and they'll go trash the second....

I like it.
Doug Danger! Even the name is cool!
This has the potential to be a really great campaign! I could see an entire
SR team brought on board by the mediacorp to essentially be DD's "backup
singers".

This would also be a decent way to introduce new players to the game.
The job is very simple - Follow DD around, make sure he doesn't die.
And you can use the Simsense job as an excuse to lead the PC's into
whatever kind of adventure you want.

Nicely done!

Doug Danger ... man I gotta use this one on Bull!
<EGMLOL>

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Off with your pants for the Maypole Dance!"
Message no. 8
From: SwiftOne <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:52:27 +0000
> I like it.
> Doug Danger! Even the name is cool!
> This has the potential to be a really great campaign! I could see an entire
> SR team brought on board by the mediacorp to essentially be DD's "backup
> singers".

Wow, thanks. coming from the man who linked the Otaku, Artificer,
and Damion Knight, that means a lot. :)

> This would also be a decent way to introduce new players to the game.
> The job is very simple - Follow DD around, make sure he doesn't die.
> And you can use the Simsense job as an excuse to lead the PC's into
> whatever kind of adventure you want.

Yeah, actually my real problem right now is keeping it from being too
boring to my experienced PC's. I ran my "What's the secret in the
Lab" run (where the walls of the lab themselves were the secret), and
my one runner, got in the room physically, had already noticed the
astral barrier of the walls, saw the lab mice, and INSTANTLY SOLVED
the whole fraggin puzzle!!!!! I was so annoyed. :) 'Course, he
still wasn't real happy. Of three runners, he alone survived and
escaped. One of the others was killed by a grenade (he ran up
DISREGARDed to guard with a few AP Grenades, and PULLED ALL THE PINS
then ran. The guards didn't make it. Neither did he. The runner
who did solve it was more than slightly singed, too. So PO'ed (he's
a shark Shaman) that he went to the offending runners smoking body
and clubbed his head open. (ewww....). The third runner was
asphixiated by an air elemental, and was captured by the Corp. I'm
having fun with him. :)

> Doug Danger ... man I gotta use this one on Bull!

One can come up with ALL sorts of FUN personality quirks to use with
Doug Danger. I'm throwing in Melodrama and overacting, but YMMV. I
also intend to get him a lot of nasty looking weaponry (but it don't
do much).

Hmm....Skillwire 6 system with Absent minded.....where did I put that
Gunnery soft....:)
Message no. 9
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 23:19:21 -0700
>...... I ran my "What's the secret in the
> Lab" run (where the walls of the lab themselves were the secret), and
> my one runner, got in the room physically, had already noticed the
> astral barrier of the walls, saw the lab mice, and INSTANTLY SOLVED
> the whole fraggin puzzle!!!!!

Isn't that always the way..Either he was thinking on his feet..some how
gained access to the list when you weren't looking..or they know
-you- too well..
--------------------------------GRANITE"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:15:41 +0100
David Buehrer said on 12:45/20 Jun 97...

> What categories of simesense are there in Shadowrun? I'm asking
> because I was thinking that comedy wouldn't translate very well.
> What's fun about comedy is to watch it happen to someone else. Being
> the "target" of a comical routine could only be enjoyed by a sadist,
> IMO (or maybe someone who is very optimistic).
>
> For example, watching the three stooges is fun. Being one of the
> three stooges while wearing a simsense would not.

(First, a question for the Americans to answer: what exactly did the
three stooges _do_? It's almost impossible to watch an American TV show
or movie without getting a reference to them, but none actually says why
they are/were supposed to be so funny.) Anyway, I think you're right that
comedy simsense won't be very popular, unless perhaps the funny things
happen to someone else, not to the character whose viewpoint the user
shares.

> Now subjects like drama, romance, fright, mystery, and adventure
> could be done well and attract a large audience.

Everybody wants to be the hero, get the girl, solve the mystery, etc. etc.
etc. -- in short, they have the same reasons for watching (experiencing?)
a sim as we do for playing RPGs. However, action sims and others where the
hero tends to get hurt would be a bit "safer" for the main character, I
think. The viewers don't generally want to feel like they just took a
bullet in the guts ;)

Also don't forget porn. Big market for that, I think, even though most of
that market will deny they ever watched any of those sims.

> Another point - if comedies are no longer produced, that might be one
> of the reasons that society has taken a couple of steps back down the
> ladder.

Don't forget that simsense isn't the only entertainment out there. Trideo
comedies would be just the same as the TV comedies we have now (i.e. 99%
of them aren't worth watching :) and feature-length comedies could be made
for the trid just as easily.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I used to change this line every day. Now, I'm kinda lacking inspiration.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 11
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:02:18 +0100
|(First, a question for the Americans to answer: what exactly did the
|three stooges _do_? It's almost impossible to watch an American TV show
|or movie without getting a reference to them, but none actually says why
|they are/were supposed to be so funny.) Anyway, I think you're right that
|comedy simsense won't be very popular, unless perhaps the funny things
|happen to someone else, not to the character whose viewpoint the user
|shares.

All I ever saw them do was poke each other in the eyes, slap each other
around a bit and act totally moronic.....

Americans can have a VERY strange sense of humour sometimes....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:56:05 -0700
| (First, a question for the Americans to answer: what exactly did the
| three stooges _do_? It's almost impossible to watch an American TV show
| or movie without getting a reference to them, but none actually says why
| they are/were supposed to be so funny.) Anyway, I think you're right that
| comedy simsense won't be very popular, unless perhaps the funny things
| happen to someone else, not to the character whose viewpoint the user
| shares.

I think the Stooges were comedy for a different era. They were basically
three guys who did about 900 site gags a second. They were funny because
they were idiots...care free schmucks who did nothing but beat on one
another.

-Caric

"I was NAKED!!!!!!!!!!!"
-Blackjack our Racoon Shaman when asked why he ran away from one
particular fight."
Message no. 13
From: Shadrach <_shadrach_@****.GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject: Simsense
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:21:14 -0400
I'm sure all of you have seen the movie "Stange Days," correct? Well what are
the similarities between the technology in that movie (VR movies) and simsense? Further,
are the social effects of this the same? Can you find burnt out simsense junkies lying on
the street corner? Just a Shadowrun culture question. Thanks.




<color><param>0000,8080,8080</param><bigger>


</bigger></color><bigger><bold>_______________________________________________

</bold><color><param>0000,8080,8080</param>|..oooOOOO-<bold><italic>Shadrach</italic></bold>-OOOOooo..|

</color></bigger><italic>

"One learns a whole lot more from pain and suffering

than from happiness and success."

</italic><color><param>0000,0000,8080</param>

_shadrach_@*********.com

UIN:2730203</color>
Message no. 14
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:58:45 -0400
At 12:21 PM 6/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm sure all of you have seen the movie "Stange Days," correct? Well what
are the similarities between the technology in that movie (VR movies) and
simsense? Further, are the social effects of this the same? Can you find
burnt out simsense junkies lying on the street corner? Just a Shadowrun
culture question. Thanks.
>


Okay, weird reply format...

Anyway, to answer your question...almost. Simsense is totally legal and
doesn't bend your brain that badly. However, stuff like California Hots
and especially BTLs, both of which are higher powered simsense (with BTLs
being seriously wicked), can have that affect.

In 205X you have the term "chip head" or "beatle head" which is about
the
equivalent to "crack head" today.

Erik J.

Who loves it when people ask culture questions
Message no. 15
From: jonathan scherer <sysjon@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:31:32 -0400
i always took the strange days movie to be exactly what BTL's are in
shadowrun, aside from the obvious differences such as the datajack instead
of that weird-ass head gear.
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Friday, June 26, 1998 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Simsense


>At 12:21 PM 6/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>I'm sure all of you have seen the movie "Stange Days," correct? Well
what
>are the similarities between the technology in that movie (VR movies) and
>simsense? Further, are the social effects of this the same? Can you find
>burnt out simsense junkies lying on the street corner? Just a Shadowrun
>culture question. Thanks.
>>
>
>
>Okay, weird reply format...
>
>Anyway, to answer your question...almost. Simsense is totally legal and
>doesn't bend your brain that badly. However, stuff like California Hots
>and especially BTLs, both of which are higher powered simsense (with BTLs
>being seriously wicked), can have that affect.
>
>In 205X you have the term "chip head" or "beatle head" which is
about the
>equivalent to "crack head" today.
>
>Erik J.
>
>Who loves it when people ask culture questions
>
Message no. 16
From: Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:41:28 -0400
Erik Jameson wrote:
Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:58:45 -0400

> At 12:21 PM 6/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >I'm sure all of you have seen the movie "Stange Days," correct? Well
what
> are the similarities between the technology in that movie (VR movies) and
> simsense? Further, are the social effects of this the same? Can you find
> burnt out simsense junkies lying on the street corner? Just a Shadowrun
> culture question. Thanks.
> >
>
> Okay, weird reply format...
>
> Anyway, to answer your question...almost. Simsense is totally legal and
> doesn't bend your brain that badly. However, stuff like California Hots
> and especially BTLs, both of which are higher powered simsense (with BTLs
> being seriously wicked), can have that affect.

For a good "example" of simsense, particularly those that are BTLs or other
less that legal versions, check out the movie "Brainstorm" (IIRC). Basiclly it
is centered around the first development of full sensory simulation recording
and playback.<snip sig>


--"Any science, sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."
--Arthur C. Clarke

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489
http://members.theglobe.com/Iridios

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Message no. 17
From: Pantherr <taslehof@*****.INTERNETLAND.NET>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:49:03 +0000
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> For a good "example" of simsense, particularly those that are BTLs
> or other less that legal versions, check out the movie "Brainstorm"
> (IIRC). Basically it is centered around the first development of
> full sensory simulation recording and playback.<snip sig>

there's also William Shatner's Tek series

Pantherr

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--
A lifetime spent repressing our animal natures and instincts is a lifetime wasted
--
Furry Code 1.3
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Message no. 18
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Simsense
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:06:29 EDT
In a message dated 6/26/98 7:40:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
iridios@*********.COM writes:

> For a good "example" of simsense, particularly those that are BTLs or other
> less that legal versions, check out the movie "Brainstorm" (IIRC).
Basiclly
> it
> is centered around the first development of full sensory simulation
> recording
> and playback.<snip sig>
>
Actually, "Brainstorm" IMO is far better concept that "Strange Days".
We
(Mike and I) own it now, and use it as a "training video" for some of the
players to gain the concept of what "Simsense" can do.

And as for the ending scene(s) concerning "the Death"....well, let's just say
we have a really good running concept for the Resonance with the Otaku...

-K

Further Reading

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