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Message no. 1
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:10:36 -0500 (EST)
> Anyway in our campaign we play that certified cred is the current
>equivilent of cash. SIN cred sticks are the credit cards, checks etc
>of current era.
>
>
That's kinda the way we play it too, although we use cash bills as well...
Although it tends to be pretty rare. Not many people use cash,, which
actually makes it more tracceable...:)


#######################################################
# -Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich #
# chaos@*****.com #
# Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours? #
#######################################################

"You do more damage out of simple irritation than most
men can do in a towering rage."
-David Eddings, "Demon Lord of Karanda
Message no. 2
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 04:17:12 +0100
In article <199609261810.NAA06023@***.ncweb.com>, Steven Ratkovich
<chaos@*****.com> writes
>> Anyway in our campaign we play that certified cred is the current
>>equivilent of cash. SIN cred sticks are the credit cards, checks etc
>>of current era.
>>
>>
>That's kinda the way we play it too, although we use cash bills as well...
>Although it tends to be pretty rare. Not many people use cash,, which
>actually makes it more tracceable...:)

Now there's an interesting statement..... :-)

There is a large SINless population in Seattle (for instance - I'm not
even considering other cities at the mo') without a SIN, you can't have
a certified credstick, unles you can afford to buy one, which most
SINless and homelesss can't, therefore it would seem sensible for these
people to deal in cash, (either through state benefits - I can't see
that these would be abolished, or begging) sooooo, logically, there
should still be a substantial cash flow in most major UCAS cities,
seeing as the barter system is unlikely to be reintroduced. I use the
game where cash is cash, and credsticks are the credit card/cheque books
of today. Sorry, but I have a real problem giving certified credit to
homelesss/SINless people where no track can be kept of their
whereabouts, and the majority don't have the income to allow for one.

Just my pennethworth.

Pete

--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 3
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:13:20 GMT + 2:00
<snip>
@ >>
@ >That's kinda the way we play it too, although we use cash bills as well...
@ >Although it tends to be pretty rare. Not many people use cash,, which
@ >actually makes it more tracceable...:)
@
@ Now there's an interesting statement..... :-)
@
@ There is a large SINless population in Seattle (for instance - I'm not
@ even considering other cities at the mo') without a SIN, you can't have
@ a certified credstick, unles you can afford to buy one, which most
@ SINless and homelesss can't, therefore it would seem sensible for these
@ people to deal in cash, (either through state benefits - I can't see
@ that these would be abolished, or begging) sooooo, logically, there
@ should still be a substantial cash flow in most major UCAS cities,
@ seeing as the barter system is unlikely to be reintroduced. I use the
@ game where cash is cash, and credsticks are the credit card/cheque books
@ of today. Sorry, but I have a real problem giving certified credit to
@ homelesss/SINless people where no track can be kept of their
@ whereabouts, and the majority don't have the income to allow for one.
@
The assumption that is being made in this case is that the
certified credstick can only have money removed from it. In our group
we play it more akin to a telephone smart-card. The card has an upper
limit defined by its rating (the old ebony, silver, platinum etc
ratings), individuals can transfer funds from the stick at any old
place (so long as it connecected to a bank of sorts), funds can be
placed into the credstick at any bank teller or 'autoteller'. Every
transaction however has a 'transaction ID number attached to it. When
the funds are cleaned this ID tag is altered to some other ID number.

Oops slightly off topic. There is nothing stopping the sinless
having multiple certified credsticks for 10=Y= each. In this way it
is similar to modern cash. I'll give you 50 =Y= for item x, and the
homeless gives the seller 10 certified credsticks of 5 =Y= each.



Andre' `the Odd'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 4
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:33:38 -0600 (MDT)
Pete Sims wrote:
|
|>That's kinda the way we play it too, although we use cash bills as well...
|>Although it tends to be pretty rare. Not many people use cash,, which
|>actually makes it more tracceable...:)
|
|Now there's an interesting statement..... :-)
|
|There is a large SINless population in Seattle (for instance - I'm not
|even considering other cities at the mo') without a SIN, you can't have
|a certified credstick, unles you can afford to buy one, which most
|SINless and homelesss can't, therefore it would seem sensible for these
|people to deal in cash, (either through state benefits - I can't see
|that these would be abolished, or begging) sooooo, logically, there
|should still be a substantial cash flow in most major UCAS cities,
|seeing as the barter system is unlikely to be reintroduced. I use the
|game where cash is cash, and credsticks are the credit card/cheque books
|of today. Sorry, but I have a real problem giving certified credit to
|homelesss/SINless people where no track can be kept of their
|whereabouts, and the majority don't have the income to allow for one.
|

You forgot about barter, coupons and mealtickets.

Say a squater sees some runners take down a gang that gets
in their way. The squater goes in and picks up some of the
dead gangers' guns, armor and various trinkets. He runs
his stuff over to the local pawn shop who's owner gives him
some new shoes, a winter coat, and some meal tickets for
some of the local foodstands (which the pawn shop owner
bought with credsticks so that he can deal with the
local sinless population).

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 5
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:56:36 -0500 (EST)
><snip>
>@ >>
>@ >That's kinda the way we play it too, although we use cash bills as well...
>@ >Although it tends to be pretty rare. Not many people use cash,, which
>@ >actually makes it more tracceable...:)
>@
>@ Now there's an interesting statement..... :-)
>@
>@ There is a large SINless population in Seattle (for instance - I'm not
>@ even considering other cities at the mo') without a SIN, you can't have
>@ a certified credstick, unles you can afford to buy one, which most
>@ SINless and homelesss can't, therefore it would seem sensible for these
>@ people to deal in cash, (either through state benefits - I can't see
>@ that these would be abolished, or begging) sooooo, logically, there
>@ should still be a substantial cash flow in most major UCAS cities,
>@ seeing as the barter system is unlikely to be reintroduced. I use the
>@ game where cash is cash, and credsticks are the credit card/cheque books
>@ of today. Sorry, but I have a real problem giving certified credit to
>@ homelesss/SINless people where no track can be kept of their
>@ whereabouts, and the majority don't have the income to allow for one.
>@
> The assumption that is being made in this case is that the
>certified credstick can only have money removed from it. In our group
>we play it more akin to a telephone smart-card. The card has an upper
>limit defined by its rating (the old ebony, silver, platinum etc
>ratings), individuals can transfer funds from the stick at any old
>place (so long as it connecected to a bank of sorts), funds can be
>placed into the credstick at any bank teller or 'autoteller'. Every
>transaction however has a 'transaction ID number attached to it. When
>the funds are cleaned this ID tag is altered to some other ID number.
>
> Oops slightly off topic. There is nothing stopping the sinless
>having multiple certified credsticks for 10=Y= each. In this way it
>is similar to modern cash. I'll give you 50 =Y= for item x, and the
>homeless gives the seller 10 certified credsticks of 5 =Y= each.
>
>
Sorry. I didn't quite explain myself well the first time. This is kinda how
we do it, although thereal speccificsof it have really been glossed over in
our game. Our rules amd game concepts, more often than not, are played fast
and loose, and are ignored in favor of good RP...:) Sorry for the
confusion...:)


#######################################################
# -Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich #
# chaos@*****.com #
# Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours? #
#######################################################

"You do more damage out of simple irritation than most
men can do in a towering rage."
-David Eddings, "Demon Lord of Karanda
Message no. 6
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:35:00 +1000 (EST)
> >That's kinda the way we play it too, although we use cash bills as well...
> >Although it tends to be pretty rare. Not many people use cash,, which
> >actually makes it more tracceable...:)
>
> Now there's an interesting statement..... :-)
>

Has anyone ntoiced that FASA started to make cash and other physical
transfers such as bearer bonds much more common (esp in the later
sourcebooks)??? Perhaps they realised that electronic transfers are by
nature easily traceable, and thereofre very undesireable to a Shadowrunner.

Imagine; Every time you get paid for a run you deposit the nuyen into
the account of one of your false ID's.... Soon, the corporations all know
that this false ID is your nom de plure and they can find out who you
have worked for in the past, with a bit of effort breaking encyrptions.

(Consider the fact that people in the Shadowrun world make it their
full-time work to break encryptions and sift through deceptions....I
wouldn't feel very safe.)

It kind of invalidates the usde of the false ID, because you accumulate a
history.... And; all it would take then is one slip up (ie making a
noticeable purchase), and anyone with a grudge and a bit of decking muscle
would be down on you in a flash.

I'd rather be paid by (in order of preference)
(1) Goods and services (more guns and ammo)
(2) Bearer bonds (they're pretty common among the corps)
(3) Cold, hard cash
(4) Cerfified cred.
(5) Uncertified cred.

The problem with certified cred is that (as stated somewhere in one of
the sourcebooks), the 'money' is tagged with the credstick number, and
sits in an account somewhere.... It can be traced to the point of issue
of the 'stick, and again once it is cashed into an account. The
intermediate trasnfers of owneship are physical and cannot be
electronically traced.

Just imagine, having to 'launder' the payments you receive for a run
through a crime syndicate or equivalent. It'd make the the runners suck
up to the Mafia a whole lot more.



Care of Bleach.

Again.
(My I'm wordy today)
Message no. 7
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:55:30 +0100
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961001131816.2124C-100000@*****.student.gu.edu
.au>, Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au> writes
>> >That's kinda the way we play it too, although we use cash bills as well...
>> >Although it tends to be pretty rare. Not many people use cash,, which
>> >actually makes it more tracceable...:)
>>
>> Now there's an interesting statement..... :-)
>>
>
>Has anyone ntoiced that FASA started to make cash and other physical
>transfers such as bearer bonds much more common (esp in the later
>sourcebooks)??? Perhaps they realised that electronic transfers are by
>nature easily traceable, and thereofre very undesireable to a Shadowrunner.
>
>Imagine; Every time you get paid for a run you deposit the nuyen into
>the account of one of your false ID's.... Soon, the corporations all know
>that this false ID is your nom de plure and they can find out who you
>have worked for in the past, with a bit of effort breaking encyrptions.
>
Something similar has been used in my game to track down the party on
numerous occassions. All electronic transactions (especially through
certified credsticks) leaves the electronic equivellent of a credit card
paper trail, it took everyone a little while to figure it out, but when
they realised how the bad guys kept finding them, things changed pretty
quick. The players now have a couple of idents, one "official", and
their shadowy other half, the shadowy side deals primarily in cash and
uncertified credit where necessary, but mainly in cash now. It just
goes to show, players do cotton on eventually.

>(Consider the fact that people in the Shadowrun world make it their
>full-time work to break encryptions and sift through deceptions....I
>wouldn't feel very safe.)
>
>It kind of invalidates the usde of the false ID, because you accumulate a
>history.... And; all it would take then is one slip up (ie making a
>noticeable purchase), and anyone with a grudge and a bit of decking muscle
>would be down on you in a flash.
>
I've used opponent deckers to wipe/freeze players credit before (that
produced some interesting reactions :-), they had to employ their
favourite NPC decker to track down and elliminate the problem, he
charged them a heavy tab for that one.

>I'd rather be paid by (in order of preference)
> (1) Goods and services (more guns and ammo)
This is what my players go for, they don't mind low pay, provided the
corp foots the bill for some equipment, or donates some at the end of
the run, seems a prety good way to try out some of that experimental
alpha cyber/bioware, neh chummers?

> (2) Bearer bonds (they're pretty common among the corps)
I don't think these have ever crossed their mind. I don't really think
they'd know what to do with them. Come to think of it, what do you do
with them? :-)

> (3) Cold, hard cash
All the time, almost every time.

> (4) Cerfified cred.
Only on private (false) SIN, and limited usage.

> (5) Uncertified cred.
Occasionally, but only when absolutely necessary.
>
>The problem with certified cred is that (as stated somewhere in one of
>the sourcebooks), the 'money' is tagged with the credstick number, and
>sits in an account somewhere.... It can be traced to the point of issue
>of the 'stick, and again once it is cashed into an account. The
>intermediate trasnfers of owneship are physical and cannot be
>electronically traced.
As I said earlier, it took the players a while to learn this trick, not
that I hid the information from them, they actually used it to track
someone, while someone was tracking them, it still never dawned on them,
how the bad guys knew where they were. Well, not until recently anyway.
>
>Just imagine, having to 'launder' the payments you receive for a run
>through a crime syndicate or equivalent. It'd make the the runners suck
>up to the Mafia a whole lot more.

Finally the players decided to use one of their Fixer contacts, she
launders the money and any proceeds from the runs they do, and also
fences any equipment/data they pick up, takes a 15% rake off for
laundering, and a 20% rake for fencing. They're happy, the fixer is
happy, so far it works to the players satisfaction.

Until recently, when they tried to palm off, a rather unique cybereye..
:-) Some unpleasant things happened shortly after that, they haven't
cottoned on to it yet (have you guys??) :-)

>
>Care of Bleach.
>
>Again.
>(My I'm wordy today)
That's a problem I have had for a long time, one great big ball of
swirling boiling gas, and it's got to go somewhere. :-)

TTYL
Pete

--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 8
From: Asher Rosenberg <ASROSENBERG@******.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 10:15:32 -0700
Pete Sims wrote:

<snipped>
>>I'd rather be paid by (in order of preference)
>> (1) Goods and services (more guns and ammo)
> This is what my players go for, they don't mind low pay, provided the
> corp foots the bill for some equipment, or donates some at the end of
> the run, seems a prety good way to try out some of that experimental
> alpha cyber/bioware, neh chummers?
>
Maybe having Loki as a GM has made me paranoid, but none of my
character's would let a corp insert any bio/cyberware, experimental or
otherwise.
The runners may be in the corp's good books, but there's nothing to stop
the corp from inserting a cortex bomb while the runner is having
surgery. Sort of an inducemnt to keep the runner working for the corp.
Message no. 9
From: "Caric" <caric@*******.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 10:25:13 -0700
> <snipped>
> >>I'd rather be paid by (in order of preference)
> >> (1) Goods and services (more guns and ammo)
> > This is what my players go for, they don't mind low pay, provided the
> > corp foots the bill for some equipment, or donates some at the end of
> > the run, seems a prety good way to try out some of that experimental
> > alpha cyber/bioware, neh chummers?
> >
> Maybe having Loki as a GM has made me paranoid, but none of my
> character's would let a corp insert any bio/cyberware, experimental or
> otherwise.
> The runners may be in the corp's good books, but there's nothing to stop
> the corp from inserting a cortex bomb while the runner is having
> surgery. Sort of an inducemnt to keep the runner working for the corp.

Definately a bad nono to let ANY corp scientist near you when you are
unconscious. Truth be known I don't like them near me when I am awake. He
money talks so save up and NEVER penny pinch when it comes to your Street
Doc. 'Course I tend to automatically double all my exchanges with contacts
anyway just to keep 'em happy. :) Hey so far it seems to be working.
<shrug>

Caric-the-frantically-looking-for-wood-to-knock-on-shaman
Message no. 10
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:11:50 -0700
> <snipped>
> >>I'd rather be paid by (in order of preference)
> >> (1) Goods and services (more guns and ammo)
> > This is what my players go for, they don't mind low pay, provided the
> > corp foots the bill for some equipment, or donates some at the end of
> > the run, seems a prety good way to try out some of that experimental
> > alpha cyber/bioware, neh chummers?
> >
> Maybe having Loki as a GM has made me paranoid, but none of my
> character's would let a corp insert any bio/cyberware, experimental or
> otherwise.
> The runners may be in the corp's good books, but there's nothing to stop
> the corp from inserting a cortex bomb while the runner is having
> surgery. Sort of an inducemnt to keep the runner working for the corp.

Good, looks like I'm doing my job. I saw how fast the group turned down
Kyle Morgan's offer for Aztechnology to foot 1/2 the cost of any
bio/cyberware the group wanted as long as it was done at one of their
clinics.

Anyone who'll go under a Corp surgeon's knife should have a little paranoia
eating at them.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 11
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:13:34 -0700
> > >>I'd rather be paid by (in order of preference)
> > >> (1) Goods and services (more guns and ammo)
> > > This is what my players go for, they don't mind low pay, provided the
> > > corp foots the bill for some equipment, or donates some at the end of
> > > the run, seems a prety good way to try out some of that experimental
> > > alpha cyber/bioware, neh chummers?
> > >
> > Maybe having Loki as a GM has made me paranoid, but none of my
> > character's would let a corp insert any bio/cyberware, experimental or
> > otherwise.
> > The runners may be in the corp's good books, but there's nothing to
stop
> > the corp from inserting a cortex bomb while the runner is having
> > surgery. Sort of an inducemnt to keep the runner working for the corp.
>
> Definately a bad nono to let ANY corp scientist near you when you are
> unconscious. Truth be known I don't like them near me when I am awake.
He
> money talks so save up and NEVER penny pinch when it comes to your Street
> Doc. 'Course I tend to automatically double all my exchanges with
contacts
> anyway just to keep 'em happy. :) Hey so far it seems to be working.
> <shrug>
>
> Caric-the-frantically-looking-for-wood-to-knock-on-shaman

You've learned well Daniel-san...

Perhaps this is why your characters have such a long life-expectancy?

Loki-the-I'm-not-the-wicked-nasty-they-protray-me-to-be-GM

:o)


CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 12
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:48:35 +0100
In article <3253F4B4.3E2F@******.COM>, Asher Rosenberg
<ASROSENBERG@******.com> writes
>Pete Sims wrote:
>
><snipped>
>>>I'd rather be paid by (in order of preference)
>>> (1) Goods and services (more guns and ammo)
>> This is what my players go for, they don't mind low pay, provided the
>> corp foots the bill for some equipment, or donates some at the end of
>> the run, seems a prety good way to try out some of that experimental
>> alpha cyber/bioware, neh chummers?
>>
>Maybe having Loki as a GM has made me paranoid, but none of my
>character's would let a corp insert any bio/cyberware, experimental or
>otherwise.
>The runners may be in the corp's good books, but there's nothing to stop
>the corp from inserting a cortex bomb while the runner is having
>surgery. Sort of an inducemnt to keep the runner working for the corp.

Ahhh... but theydo that, I mean, with all the new kit on the market,
who needs a cortex bomb, they're only really useful for "boomers", now
what happened to that cyborg who used to be a player character??? :-)

No seriously. The players very rarely accept any kind of implant from
corps, they just don't trust them, however, they have come out of some
runs with some pretty classy equipment. Occassionally if they've been
particularly good, I'll let them keep any specialist gear the corp
"loaned" them for the run. This usually keeps them sweet. Of course,
as far as they're concerned, there is nothing like crisp nuyen to start
them drooling. I just managed to get them to agree to a run in Britain
for a ridiculous (as in a lot) amount of money. :) Pity they don't
know what I've got planned for them <vbeg>. =:0

Pete

--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 13
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 23:51:04 +0100
In article <199610031719.KAA05519@***.netzone.com>, Caric
<caric@*******.com> writes
>> >>I'd rather be paid by (in order of preference)
>> >> (1) Goods and services (more guns and ammo)
>> > This is what my players go for, they don't mind low pay, provided the
>> > corp foots the bill for some equipment, or donates some at the end of
>> > the run, seems a prety good way to try out some of that experimental
>> > alpha cyber/bioware, neh chummers?
>> >
>> Maybe having Loki as a GM has made me paranoid, but none of my
>> character's would let a corp insert any bio/cyberware, experimental or
>> otherwise.
>> The runners may be in the corp's good books, but there's nothing to stop
>> the corp from inserting a cortex bomb while the runner is having
>> surgery. Sort of an inducemnt to keep the runner working for the corp.
>
>Definately a bad nono to let ANY corp scientist near you when you are
>unconscious. Truth be known I don't like them near me when I am awake. He
>money talks so save up and NEVER penny pinch when it comes to your Street
>Doc. 'Course I tend to automatically double all my exchanges with contacts
>anyway just to keep 'em happy. :) Hey so far it seems to be working.
><shrug>
>
I agree, this is definately not a particularly healthy thing to do, but
sometimes players don't really think too hard about their actions. one
of my players allowed a corp to completely re-install his cyberware, the
corp was a slight rewrite on Arasaka :), anyone familiar with the men in
black will understand his consternation when things started getting a
little wierd. Mind you, his character is still alive - somewhere -
doing "something". :-)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 14
From: "Rookie" <rookie@*******.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:48:45 -0600
And when it comes the living will envy the Dead!

Rookie@*******.com
55464@**.ev.maricopa.edu
http://www.netzone.com/~rookie

----------
> From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
> Subject: Re: SINs and cred
> Date: Thursday, October 03, 1996 4:51 PM
>
>
> I agree, this is definately not a particularly healthy thing to do, but
> sometimes players don't really think too hard about their actions. one
> of my players allowed a corp to completely re-install his cyberware, the
> corp was a slight rewrite on Arasaka :), anyone familiar with the men in
> black will understand his consternation when things started getting a
> little wierd. Mind you, his character is still alive - somewhere -
> doing "something". :-)
>
> Pete
> --
Hahahaha sounds like one of are players..We got highered by Kyle Morgan to
do a run against Renraku. Kyle Morgan gave the group discounts on weapons
and cyberware. Everyone EXCEPT one person didn't take Kyle up on that
offer. Mac the Ork in the group orders a Franchi Spaa-22 Shotgun from
Aztechnology. You think thats bad. He actually went to Aztec to get it
Customized....hahahaha Basically I Quote from Loki "Picture Kyle Morgan
with a pad of paper. Welp we don't have to worry about make he's not a
threat if he walked in here."

hahaha Sorry but I take NOTHING from a Corp. Kyle Morgan gave us Credsticks
with an Identity's on it. And the pay for the run. I then snapped the
Credstick. Think I want Aztec knowing where I go all the time? I don't
wanna make it easier for them.

-Rookie
Message no. 15
From: Matt <b312@*****.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 18:44:50 -0400
At 03:48 PM 10/4/96 -0600, you wrote: May I ask to what your refering?
>
> Rookie@*******.com
> 55464@**.ev.maricopa.edu
> http://www.netzone.com/~rookie
>
>----------
>> From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
>> To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
>> Subject: Re: SINs and cred
>> Date: Thursday, October 03, 1996 4:51 PM
>>
>>
>> I agree, this is definately not a particularly healthy thing to do, but
>> sometimes players don't really think too hard about their actions. one
>> of my players allowed a corp to completely re-install his cyberware, the
>> corp was a slight rewrite on Arasaka :), anyone familiar with the men in
>> black will understand his consternation when things started getting a
>> little wierd. Mind you, his character is still alive - somewhere -
>> doing "something". :-)
>>
>> Pete
>> --
>Hahahaha sounds like one of are players..We got highered by Kyle Morgan to
>do a run against Renraku. Kyle Morgan gave the group discounts on weapons
>and cyberware. Everyone EXCEPT one person didn't take Kyle up on that
>offer. Mac the Ork in the group orders a Franchi Spaa-22 Shotgun from
>Aztechnology. You think thats bad. He actually went to Aztec to get it
>Customized....hahahaha Basically I Quote from Loki "Picture Kyle Morgan
>with a pad of paper. Welp we don't have to worry about make he's not a
>threat if he walked in here."
>
>hahaha Sorry but I take NOTHING from a Corp. Kyle Morgan gave us Credsticks
>with an Identity's on it. And the pay for the run. I then snapped the
>Credstick. Think I want Aztec knowing where I go all the time? I don't
>wanna make it easier for them.
>
>-Rookie
>
>
Message no. 16
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:31:05 +1000
At 02:55 2/10/96 +0100, Pete Sims wrote:
>In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961001131816.2124C-100000@*****.student.gu.edu
>.au>, Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au> writes

To cut things short because no-one in my group needs or wants to
play around with money that much, ALL financial gain by PCs is
laundered by some (unspecified) means and costs a flat rate
of 30%. So, legitimate money is taxed (30% off the top) and
money from runs is laundered (flat 30% fee for the laundering).
The PCs now try to take their ill-gotten gains in goods and
services, which can have some interesting side-effects.


PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 17
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 02:35:21 +0100
In article <199610042243.PAA21545@***.netzone.com>, Rookie
<rookie@*******.com> writes
>> I agree, this is definately not a particularly healthy thing to do, but
>> sometimes players don't really think too hard about their actions. one
>> of my players allowed a corp to completely re-install his cyberware, the
>> corp was a slight rewrite on Arasaka :), anyone familiar with the men in
>> black will understand his consternation when things started getting a
>> little wierd. Mind you, his character is still alive - somewhere -
>> doing "something". :-)
>>
>> Pete
>> --
>Hahahaha sounds like one of are players..We got highered by Kyle Morgan to
>do a run against Renraku. Kyle Morgan gave the group discounts on weapons
>and cyberware. Everyone EXCEPT one person didn't take Kyle up on that
>offer. Mac the Ork in the group orders a Franchi Spaa-22 Shotgun from
>Aztechnology. You think thats bad. He actually went to Aztec to get it
>Customized....hahahaha Basically I Quote from Loki "Picture Kyle Morgan
>with a pad of paper. Welp we don't have to worry about make he's not a
>threat if he walked in here."

I couldn't hire my players with Kyle Morgan if he offered them their
weight in cut diamonds, they seem (for some mysterious reason) to be
absolutely terrified of him, or maybe it's that rather large mate of his
:). I know they stuck a LAW rocket up Perry's butt once, but really,
it's not as though Dragons are vindictive or anything. :)

Having said that, they don't have *too* much of a problem with
Aztechnology, they have passed some very *interesting* stuff over to the
Azzies, so Aztechnology are - shall we say - "neutral" towards them.
>
>hahaha Sorry but I take NOTHING from a Corp. Kyle Morgan gave us Credsticks
>with an Identity's on it. And the pay for the run. I then snapped the
>Credstick. Think I want Aztec knowing where I go all the time? I don't
>wanna make it easier for them.
>
Haha, yes, it's a policy I can well understand, a gift from a corp is
like a deal with a dragon, there's always two ends to it. I still have
to sit back and laugh sometimes when the players look at me in total
disbelief when the Corp Sec team finds them - yet again. They've never
figured out that any gift from a corp is not *just* a gift, and the
amount of things they ask for from Johnsons, and get them, tehy just
can't figure out *why* the corp is so generous. Never mind, I'll
continue hunting them down successfully, and playing with their minds,
until one day that great light bulb called *intelligence* lights up over
someone's head. :)

>-Rookie

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 18
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 02:35:21 +0100
In article <199610042243.PAA21545@***.netzone.com>, Rookie
<rookie@*******.com> writes
>> I agree, this is definately not a particularly healthy thing to do, but
>> sometimes players don't really think too hard about their actions. one
>> of my players allowed a corp to completely re-install his cyberware, the
>> corp was a slight rewrite on Arasaka :), anyone familiar with the men in
>> black will understand his consternation when things started getting a
>> little wierd. Mind you, his character is still alive - somewhere -
>> doing "something". :-)
>>
>> Pete
>> --
>Hahahaha sounds like one of are players..We got highered by Kyle Morgan to
>do a run against Renraku. Kyle Morgan gave the group discounts on weapons
>and cyberware. Everyone EXCEPT one person didn't take Kyle up on that
>offer. Mac the Ork in the group orders a Franchi Spaa-22 Shotgun from
>Aztechnology. You think thats bad. He actually went to Aztec to get it
>Customized....hahahaha Basically I Quote from Loki "Picture Kyle Morgan
>with a pad of paper. Welp we don't have to worry about make he's not a
>threat if he walked in here."

I couldn't hire my players with Kyle Morgan if he offered them their
weight in cut diamonds, they seem (for some mysterious reason) to be
absolutely terrified of him, or maybe it's that rather large mate of his
:). I know they stuck a LAW rocket up Perry's butt once, but really,
it's not as though Dragons are vindictive or anything. :)

Having said that, they don't have *too* much of a problem with
Aztechnology, they have passed some very *interesting* stuff over to the
Azzies, so Aztechnology are - shall we say - "neutral" towards them.
>
>hahaha Sorry but I take NOTHING from a Corp. Kyle Morgan gave us Credsticks
>with an Identity's on it. And the pay for the run. I then snapped the
>Credstick. Think I want Aztec knowing where I go all the time? I don't
>wanna make it easier for them.
>
Haha, yes, it's a policy I can well understand, a gift from a corp is
like a deal with a dragon, there's always two ends to it. I still have
to sit back and laugh sometimes when the players look at me in total
disbelief when the Corp Sec team finds them - yet again. They've never
figured out that any gift from a corp is not *just* a gift, and the
amount of things they ask for from Johnsons, and get them, tehy just
can't figure out *why* the corp is so generous. Never mind, I'll
continue hunting them down successfully, and playing with their minds,
until one day that great light bulb called *intelligence* lights up over
someone's head. :)

>-Rookie

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 19
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:34:37 -0700
Matt, I don't know why, but Rookie's signature came out at the top of the
list and his reply was at the bottom. <shrug>

Loki-the-reply-split-noticing-GM

> At 03:48 PM 10/4/96 -0600, you wrote: May I ask to what your refering?
> >
> > Rookie@*******.com
> > 55464@**.ev.maricopa.edu
> > http://www.netzone.com/~rookie
> >
> >----------
<snip>
> >> I agree, this is definately not a particularly healthy thing to do,
but
> >> sometimes players don't really think too hard about their actions.
one
> >> of my players allowed a corp to completely re-install his cyberware,
the
> >> corp was a slight rewrite on Arasaka :), anyone familiar with the men
in
> >> black will understand his consternation when things started getting a
> >> little wierd. Mind you, his character is still alive - somewhere -
> >> doing "something". :-)
> >>
> >> Pete
> >> --
> >Hahahaha sounds like one of are players..We got highered by Kyle Morgan
to
> >do a run against Renraku. Kyle Morgan gave the group discounts on
weapons
> >and cyberware. Everyone EXCEPT one person didn't take Kyle up on that
> >offer. Mac the Ork in the group orders a Franchi Spaa-22 Shotgun from
> >Aztechnology. You think thats bad. He actually went to Aztec to get it
> >Customized....hahahaha Basically I Quote from Loki "Picture Kyle Morgan
> >with a pad of paper. Welp we don't have to worry about make he's not a
> >threat if he walked in here."
> >
> >hahaha Sorry but I take NOTHING from a Corp. Kyle Morgan gave us
Credsticks
> >with an Identity's on it. And the pay for the run. I then snapped the
> >Credstick. Think I want Aztec knowing where I go all the time? I don't
> >wanna make it easier for them.
> >
> >-Rookie
> >
> >
>
Message no. 20
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:48:07 +1000 (EST)
> It kind of invalidates the usde of the false ID, because you accumulate a
> history.... And; all it would take then is one slip up (ie making a
> noticeable purchase), and anyone with a grudge and a bit of decking muscle
> would be down on you in a flash.

One False ID? ONE? Geeez.... stock up, man! Accumulate a false ID every
now and then as someone different each time, and spread the payments
around. :)

(I'm trying to make it a practice to buy another false ID about every four
runs... :) )


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 21
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:15:58 +1000 (EST)
> > (2) Bearer bonds (they're pretty common among the corps)
> I don't think these have ever crossed their mind. I don't really think
> they'd know what to do with them. Come to think of it, what do you do
> with them? :-)

We found some and said the 2050s equivalent of "ooooh, bookmarks" before
we figured out what they were. Now just about all the party kept their
share of the bearer bonds as untraceable 'cash' hidden in various dosses
or with friends, just in case their IDs become suspect and they can't
access their regular fundage.

Well, that's what *I* did, anyway, and I think at least a few of the
others did the same.


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 22
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:35:20 +1000 (EST)
> Anyone who'll go under a Corp surgeon's knife should have a little paranoia
> eating at them.

If paranoia's all that's eating at them, they're lucky. I'd be more
worried about the carcerands, and experimental bacteriowhatevers the
corp's testing this week...

*flashbacks to last game session* I just thank whoever's up there that
our friendly NPC *didn't* have Ebola. :)

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 23
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:15:29 +0000
On 6 Oct 96 at 13:34, Loki wrote:
> Matt, I don't know why, but Rookie's signature came out at the top of the
> list and his reply was at the bottom. <shrug>
And what did you quote the whole fragging mail for?


Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 24
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 11:32:46 -0700
> >Hahahaha sounds like one of are players..We got highered by Kyle Morgan
to
> >do a run against Renraku. Kyle Morgan gave the group discounts on
weapons
> >and cyberware. Everyone EXCEPT one person didn't take Kyle up on that
> >offer. Mac the Ork in the group orders a Franchi Spaa-22 Shotgun from
> >Aztechnology. You think thats bad. He actually went to Aztec to get it
> >Customized....hahahaha Basically I Quote from Loki "Picture Kyle Morgan
> >with a pad of paper. Welp we don't have to worry about make he's not a
> >threat if he walked in here."
>
> I couldn't hire my players with Kyle Morgan if he offered them their
> weight in cut diamonds, they seem (for some mysterious reason) to be
> absolutely terrified of him, or maybe it's that rather large mate of his
> :). I know they stuck a LAW rocket up Perry's butt once, but really,
> it's not as though Dragons are vindictive or anything. :)

I didn't exactly HIRE them through Kyle Morgan, it was more like he
presented an offer they couldn't (shouldn't) refuse. ;o)

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 25
From: Jonathan Burt <jonathan@******.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:35:04 +0100
Hi!

In article <JQT7KPADLEVyEw46@********.demon.co.uk>, Pete Sims <petesims@
petesims.demon.co.uk> writes
>>The runners may be in the corp's good books, but there's nothing to stop
>>the corp from inserting a cortex bomb while the runner is having
>>surgery. Sort of an inducemnt to keep the runner working for the corp.
>
>Ahhh... but theydo that, I mean, with all the new kit on the market,
>who needs a cortex bomb, they're only really useful for "boomers", now
>what happened to that cyborg who used to be a player character??? :-)

Pete your B*****D, he supposed to be resting, I want my PC back, dont
want to face him as a NPC, cause I know how hard he is!

Not fair,

Bloody GM's
J.
--
Jonathan Burt
*One of the poor buggers, that has Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk> as
his Shadowrun GM* :(
Message no. 26
From: Jonathan Burt <jonathan@******.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:37:01 +0100
In article <IgF7mSAYNEVyEw72@********.demon.co.uk>, Pete Sims <petesims@
petesims.demon.co.uk> writes
>I agree, this is definately not a particularly healthy thing to do, but
>sometimes players don't really think too hard about their actions. one
>of my players allowed a corp to completely re-install his cyberware, the
>corp was a slight rewrite on Arasaka :), anyone familiar with the men in
>black will understand his consternation when things started getting a
>little wierd. Mind you, his character is still alive - somewhere -
>doing "something". :-)

Yeh, well faced with a 2+ million bill to get it fixed, I had no choice,
did I Pete! :(

That teach me to spend all my money on fancy alpha/beta gear and bio to
make me hard, I'll never learn :)

J.
--
Jonathan Burt
*One of the poor buggers, that has Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk> as
his Shadowrun GM* :(
Message no. 27
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:45:12 +0100
In article <IneLpHAda8WyEwD6@******.demon.co.uk>, Jonathan Burt
<jonathan@******.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <IgF7mSAYNEVyEw72@********.demon.co.uk>, Pete Sims <petesims@
>petesims.demon.co.uk> writes
>>I agree, this is definately not a particularly healthy thing to do, but
>>sometimes players don't really think too hard about their actions. one
>>of my players allowed a corp to completely re-install his cyberware, the
>>corp was a slight rewrite on Arasaka :), anyone familiar with the men in
>>black will understand his consternation when things started getting a
>>little wierd. Mind you, his character is still alive - somewhere -
>>doing "something". :-)
>
>Yeh, well faced with a 2+ million bill to get it fixed, I had no choice,
>did I Pete! :(

You had every choice in the world Jonathan, you didn't *have* to jump
from the back of a Lone Star cruiser moving at 65kph, and then run
across six lanes (count then 6!) of traffic at rush hour. Now did you
:)

>
>That teach me to spend all my money on fancy alpha/beta gear and bio to
>make me hard, I'll never learn :)

I live in hope, I live in *hope*. :)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 28
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:24:18 -0700
> > Matt, I don't know why, but Rookie's signature came out at the top of
the
> > list and his reply was at the bottom. <shrug>
> And what did you quote the whole fragging mail for?

I'n case Matt hadn't saved the original message and want to go back and SEE
what the reply he'd missed at the bottom of that message was...

I understand people's complaints on personal messages and not snipping
lengthy messages. However, it also seems people are getting a bit quick to
jump on any little thing and it's becoming a witch hunt to find something
to complain about. Just MHO.


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 29
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SINs and cred
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 00:43:20 +0100
In article <L3jL9AAoY8WyEwDS@******.demon.co.uk>, Jonathan Burt
<jonathan@******.demon.co.uk> writes

[snip]
>>Ahhh... but theydo that, I mean, with all the new kit on the market,
>>who needs a cortex bomb, they're only really useful for "boomers", now
>>what happened to that cyborg who used to be a player character??? :-)
>
>Pete your B*****D, he supposed to be resting, I want my PC back, dont
>want to face him as a NPC, cause I know how hard he is!

very bigg hairy evil grin. But Jonathan, it was your choice that he go
to Arasaka for the repairs, it's not my fault you argued wioth a truck
and damaged most of your cyberware, and that Arasaka had a chance to
install some of their custom stuff :) :)

By the way, Do you think Smudge ever got over his "medical" trip to the
Brotherhood (EBVEG)

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about SINs and cred, you may also be interested in:

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