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Message no. 1
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Situational Charisma
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:53:37 -0500
Hmmm... I've been thinking ("uh-oh..." "Oh shut up").

Trolls and Orks have low charismas but to somepeople (like other orks and
Trolls, they are probably attractive ...

Otakus are social outcasts yet will probably have high starting charismas
...

One way around this is to have one level for certain situations, and
another for others (ie high for amongst Orks & Trolls/ interfacing with
matrix or other otaku, low rest of time).

The problem is that I see no good way to do this ...

(Side Note: perhaps it would be a good idea to replace Charisma with
Computer Theory or Computer skill for Otaku Matrix Persona stat
generation then penalize charisma as per physical stats)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

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Message no. 2
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Situational Charisma
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:28:51 EDT
In a message dated 6/14/98 2:55:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Hmmm... I've been thinking ("uh-oh..." "Oh shut up").

<It's a dangerous pastime, I know...>

> Trolls and Orks have low charismas but to somepeople (like other orks and
> Trolls, they are probably attractive ...

Probably correct.

> Otakus are social outcasts yet will probably have high starting charismas
> ...

Without a doubt. We've seen it here and had it make -Zero- sense to us as
well.

> One way around this is to have one level for certain situations, and
> another for others (ie high for amongst Orks & Trolls/ interfacing with
> matrix or other otaku, low rest of time).

It's a possibility. We actually have considered using the "MPCP" as a means
of "Charisma" for an Otaku within the Matrix.

> The problem is that I see no good way to do this ...

Overall, not easy, no.

> (Side Note: perhaps it would be a good idea to replace Charisma with
> Computer Theory or Computer skill for Otaku Matrix Persona stat
> generation then penalize charisma as per physical stats)

See above.

I know that with my prime character "Binder", he has a "Physical
Charisma" of
a 5, and his "Inner Charisma" is much higher than that. We just couldn't see
it happening. The other reason for this dates back to the Harlequin module,
with Lancelot Windtree (name?), having a suck-butt Charisma, but the character
description says he's "drop dead gorgeous" type. Didn't add up to us entirely
either.

> (aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)

Just where -did- the "RuPixel" come from anyway???

> "Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

Ah look, the return of the Cyberchrist ... JOBites beware...!!!!

-K
Message no. 3
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Situational Charisma
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:09:37 PDT
>> Hmmm... I've been thinking ("uh-oh..." "Oh shut up").
>
><It's a dangerous pastime, I know...>
>
>> Trolls and Orks have low charismas but to somepeople (like other
orks and
>> Trolls, they are probably attractive ...
>
>Probably correct.
>
>> Otakus are social outcasts yet will probably have high starting
charismas
>> ...
>
>Without a doubt. We've seen it here and had it make -Zero- sense to us
as
>well.
>
>> One way around this is to have one level for certain situations, and
>> another for others (ie high for amongst Orks & Trolls/ interfacing
with
>> matrix or other otaku, low rest of time).
>
>It's a possibility. We actually have considered using the "MPCP" as a
means
>of "Charisma" for an Otaku within the Matrix.
>
>> The problem is that I see no good way to do this ...
>
>Overall, not easy, no.

Not hard, though. Otaku don't have much Non-matrix ettiquette, so
who's goanna give them any respect? TN panlties for defaulting to
charisma should just be beefy. Charisma makes more sense as a DEFENSIVE
attributte, represent attitude, chutzpa, and moxie (well, maybe not
moxie, but it ain't in my dictionary, and it SOUNDS good), which Otaku
have in loads, and trolls aparently lack. (who needs chutzpa when
you've got BULK?)

>
>> (Side Note: perhaps it would be a good idea to replace Charisma with
>> Computer Theory or Computer skill for Otaku Matrix Persona stat
>> generation then penalize charisma as per physical stats)
>
>See above.
>
>I know that with my prime character "Binder", he has a "Physical
Charisma" of
>a 5, and his "Inner Charisma" is much higher than that. We just
couldn't see
>it happening. The other reason for this dates back to the Harlequin
module,
>with Lancelot Windtree (name?), having a suck-butt Charisma, but the
character
>description says he's "drop dead gorgeous" type. Didn't add up to us
entirely
>either.

Apearance could also be based on a skill- after all, most often its
a matter of good grooming and fasion sense. The "power" ofthe effect
any social skill creates would be based on charisma, and maybe aplicable
edges/ flaws. (its used as the targets resistance Tn). This would be
rather likethe "sexual attack" discussed a while back, but used withthe
reult of making friends and influencing people, instead of knocking
them out with sex induced fatigue.
In fact, it IS esier to blow off ugly, poor people, or those you
percieve as such. Social condtioning, sure. But even the most gorgeous
model babe is gonna have some trouble getting somethings, if she doesn't
know the right things to say.

Doesn't shadowrun have ANY type of skill based reaction table?

-Mongoose

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Message no. 4
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Situational Charisma
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:43:18 -0500
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 13:28:51 EDT K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
>In a message dated 6/14/98 2:55:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>> Hmmm... I've been thinking ("uh-oh..." "Oh shut up").

><It's a dangerous pastime, I know...>

>> Trolls and Orks have low charismas but to somepeople (like other orks
and
>> Trolls, they are probably attractive ...

>Probably correct.

>> Otakus are social outcasts yet will probably have high starting
charismas
>> ...

>Without a doubt. We've seen it here and had it make -Zero- sense to us
as
>well.

>> One way around this is to have one level for certain situations, and
>> another for others (ie high for amongst Orks & Trolls/ interfacing
with
>> matrix or other otaku, low rest of time).

>It's a possibility. We actually have considered using the "MPCP" as a
means
>of "Charisma" for an Otaku within the Matrix.

But the MPCP is based on the Otaku's Charisma... or did you change that?

>> The problem is that I see no good way to do this ...

>Overall, not easy, no.

I thought about allowing for specialization / concentration like if the
Charisma stat was a skill but immediately tossed it out cuz, IMO, it was
too unbalancing :/

>> (Side Note: perhaps it would be a good idea to replace Charisma with
>> Computer Theory or Computer skill for Otaku Matrix Persona stat
>> generation then penalize charisma as per physical stats)

>See above.

Ya know, Now that I've slept on it, I think I like this idea ... replace
Charisma with Computer Theory for Matrix Persona generation ... I think
this is gonna make my otaku's Charisma drop from 8 (Elf) to 3 or so ...

>I know that with my prime character "Binder", he has a "Physical
Charisma" of
>a 5, and his "Inner Charisma" is much higher than that. We just
couldn't see
>it happening.

How do you resolve "aquiring" different inner and outer charismas?

>The other reason for this dates back to the Harlequin module,
>with Lancelot Windtree (name?), having a suck-butt Charisma, but the
character
>description says he's "drop dead gorgeous" type. Didn't add up to us
entirely
>either.

Is this Lancelot from the original Harlequin? (there is a Lancelot in
Harlequin's Back ... supposedly THE Lancelot)

>> (aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)

>Just where -did- the "RuPixel" come from anyway???

On IRC, I use Pixel (The Cat from Heinlein novels, not the little dot on
the screen), and as usual, I was tormenting Jett ... She came after me
with rusty piano wire and after a short discussion about whether
regeneration would grow /that/ back, I announced that I'm going to have
to start the Hormone treatments ahead of schedule ... and RuPixel was
born :)

>> "Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

>Ah look, the return of the Cyberchrist ... JOBites beware...!!!!
>
>-K

This came IRC too ... one of #shadowrun's (*plug* *plug*) semi regulars
is SINkess ... and usually greet him(?) with /me casts the first stone at
SINless or /me casts SINless at the first stone. :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 5
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Situational Charisma
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 17:30:50 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>


>In a message dated 6/14/98 2:55:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>
>> Hmmm... I've been thinking ("uh-oh..." "Oh shut up").
>
><It's a dangerous pastime, I know...>
>
>> Trolls and Orks have low charismas but to somepeople (like other orks
and
>> Trolls, they are probably attractive ...
>
>Probably correct.
>
>> Otakus are social outcasts yet will probably have high starting
charismas
>> ...
>
>Without a doubt. We've seen it here and had it make -Zero- sense to us as
>well.


Perhaps a modifier for the Otaku when they are out of the matrix? I assume
that the high Charisma that the Otaku seem to have is mainly for in the
matrix...perhaps outside the matrix their charisma should only be 1/2 or 1/4
of what it is in the Matrix.

>> One way around this is to have one level for certain situations, and
>> another for others (ie high for amongst Orks & Trolls/ interfacing with
>> matrix or other otaku, low rest of time).
>

See above
>
>I know that with my prime character "Binder", he has a "Physical
Charisma"
of
>a 5, and his "Inner Charisma" is much higher than that. We just couldn't
see
>it happening. The other reason for this dates back to the Harlequin
module,
>with Lancelot Windtree (name?), having a suck-butt Charisma, but the
character
>description says he's "drop dead gorgeous" type. Didn't add up to us
entirely
>either.


Yeah, but is charisma really only a measure of how good looking someone is?
Perhaps at the time the authors of that module felt that Charisma was more
reflective of how a person acted...was Lancelot Windtree a total jerk? If
so, you may have the reason for the low charisma. Haven't you ever seen a
good looking person who you really don't want to be around because of how
they act?


>> (aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)
>
>Just where -did- the "RuPixel" come from anyway???


A little cross dressing in Pixel land? <G>



Wraith
Message no. 6
From: Damion Milliken <milko@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Situational Charisma
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:37:06 +1000
Wraith writes:

> Yeah, but is charisma really only a measure of how good looking someone is?
> Perhaps at the time the authors of that module felt that Charisma was more
> reflective of how a person acted...was Lancelot Windtree a total jerk? If
> so, you may have the reason for the low charisma. Haven't you ever seen a
> good looking person who you really don't want to be around because of how
> they act?

I'm pretty sure that Charisma is actually meant to be the strength of
personality and general strength of character of a person, not their
physical attractiveness. I believe that the description of the Attribute in
the first few pages of the BBB will back me up here.

As for the Lancelot mentioned, he is out of the original Harlequin, and he
is a stuck up snob of an elf (wow, what an original idea :-)). But he's
attractive.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: milko@***.edu.au
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Message no. 7
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Situational Charisma
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 00:23:06 -0400
Alfredo B Alves wrote:
>
> Hmmm... I've been thinking ("uh-oh..." "Oh shut up").
>
> Trolls and Orks have low charismas but to somepeople (like other orks and
> Trolls, they are probably attractive ...

That's the way I've always played it. I usually scale it according to
circumstance (i.e. a recently goblinized ork or troll would probobly
still find humans more attractive while a long-timer owuld find humans
less attractive and their ilk more attractive, etc.)

>
> Otakus are social outcasts yet will probably have high starting charismas
> ...
>

Of course, the otaku recruit from outcasts, but then again, everything
is relative.

> One way around this is to have one level for certain situations, and
> another for others (ie high for amongst Orks & Trolls/ interfacing with
> matrix or other otaku, low rest of time).
>

I usually give my NPCs each their own personal mods; in fact, I had one
merc femme who was hot in the ass over trolls :)

> The problem is that I see no good way to do this ...
>
> (Side Note: perhaps it would be a good idea to replace Charisma with
> Computer Theory or Computer skill for Otaku Matrix Persona stat
> generation then penalize charisma as per physical stats)
>

Uh... Okay, I think. :)

> D.Ghost

--
Deosyne

That which does not kill me has made a big f-----g mistake.
Message no. 8
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Situational Charisma
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 01:25:31 EDT
In a message dated 6/14/98 2:58:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >> One way around this is to have one level for certain situations, and
> >> another for others (ie high for amongst Orks & Trolls/ interfacing
> with
> >> matrix or other otaku, low rest of time).
>
> >It's a possibility. We actually have considered using the "MPCP" as a
> means
> >of "Charisma" for an Otaku within the Matrix.
>
> But the MPCP is based on the Otaku's Charisma... or did you change that?

No, we didn't change it, please note I thought I said we "were thinking about"
doing such. Nothing so drastic has been done as yet.

> >> The problem is that I see no good way to do this ...
>
> >Overall, not easy, no.
>
> I thought about allowing for specialization / concentration like if the
> Charisma stat was a skill but immediately tossed it out cuz, IMO, it was
> too unbalancing :/

Yeah, especially for Attribs cost, UNLESS you make the attribute base cost
equal to a skill, and go from there...

> >I know that with my prime character "Binder", he has a "Physical
> Charisma" of
> >a 5, and his "Inner Charisma" is much higher than that. We just
> couldn't see
> >it happening.
>
> How do you resolve "aquiring" different inner and outer charismas?

I paid for the stat at the base rate and just made a "Player Decision" to play
him in this mode for the remainder of the time (for the last 3 years or so at
least now).

> >The other reason for this dates back to the Harlequin module,
> >with Lancelot Windtree (name?), having a suck-butt Charisma, but the
> character
> >description says he's "drop dead gorgeous" type. Didn't add up to us
> entirely
> >either.
>
> Is this Lancelot from the original Harlequin? (there is a Lancelot in
> Harlequin's Back ... supposedly THE Lancelot)

Original Harlequin....

-K

Further Reading

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