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Message no. 1
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 23:26:54 -0700
Hoi Chummer!

I posted this to another list, but I wanted to get some list feedback here
on an idea that's been posed to me.

One of my players had thought it would be good to come up with a collection
of skill packages, kind of like the BattleTech academy packages where you
get a pre-set group of skills for a reduced skill point price. In other
words, characters with a military back ground could purchase one set, or
former-security guards, or former-lonestar...

For example something like:
Firearms 3
Unarmed Combat 3
Stealth 3
Military Theory 2
Etiq (Military) 2
Biotech 2

Would cost 12 skill points, however these skill ratings could not be added
to during character creation.

Anyway it's an idea...

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 2
From: "John F. Lee" <jfl666@*.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 08:21:16 -0700 (PDT)
On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Loki wrote:

> Hoi Chummer!

That was a mite friendly for my blood. I always seem to be in street sam
mode when I read from this list. >#=+-- (the street sam emoticon - ASCII
LMG)

>
> One of my players had thought it would be good to come up with a collection
> of skill packages, kind of like the BattleTech academy packages where you
> get a pre-set group of skills for a reduced skill point price.
>
> Anyway it's an idea...

It's a damn good idea. A whole book full of "wizards" like that could
make character creation a breeze. After all, most of my characters end up
with Firearms, UC/Martial Arts, Stealth, Car, and Street Etiquette, for
some reason.
--
John F. Lee / jfl666@*.washington.edu
Stays crunchy, even in milk!
Message no. 3
From: Tim Kerby <tkerby@***.net>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:40:25 -0400
I like this idea. We had always played that you get 6 points of =
"background" skills to flesh out the character. They had to be approved =
by the GM. But skill packages....hmmm... I like it.

========================|=
==========================
==============
tkerby@***.net | Never relax. Your run may be over, but someone, =
somewhere,
drekhead@***.com | is just starting his and the target could be you.
drekhead@*******.com | ---www.aol.users.com\drekhead\home.html--- =

========================|=
==========================
==============
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Message no. 4
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:39:28 +0100
Tim Kerby said on 20:40/ 3 Oct 96...

> I like this idea. We had always played that you get 6 points of
> "background" skills to flesh out the character. They had to be approved
> by the GM. But skill packages....hmmm... I like it.

Skill packages make sense if there's some kind of school characters can go
to before the game starts -- this thing came from MechWarrior, where the
skill packages represent what your char learned in, say, basic military
training. This would make sense for shadowrunners with a background in
such things, like ex-soldiers, ex-corp deckers, etc. but IMO not for
gangers-turned-shadowrunner. Sure, everybody picks up skills somewhere,
but not everybody knows the same ones. Plus SR assumes everybody can do
things like read, write, and use a computer, which could be called a skill
package in itself.

Still the best way I've seen of creating characters (IMHO of course) is
the Twilight: 2000 method of strating the character off at 18 years of age
with a few skills, and then having him or her go through any school or job
he/she wants to, picking up skills along the way. Sure, it takes longer
than just assigning numbers, but it does give you a good background and a
reason why you know what you know.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"You can ground supercalifragilistic ammo through elven illuminati!"
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 5
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 04:12:17 +0100
In article <199610020618.XAA16299@***.netzone.com>, Loki
<loki@*******.com> writes
>Hoi Chummer!
>
>I posted this to another list, but I wanted to get some list feedback here
>on an idea that's been posed to me.
>
[snip skills idea]
I follow the standard characetr creation rules, but use the CP2020
(slightly rewritten) background generator for a quick background, and
let the players work out anything deeper. But regarding "professional"
skills gained through employment, this is usually discussed between
myself and the player, and I will award skills according to the
characters background and employment history, it makes for some pretty
diverse characters (I don't think we've ever had two the same).

I don't like skill packages myself, as it smacks too much of the AD&D
style character kits, but I can see it would be useful in certain
situations where the character will learn a set number and type of skill
in certain professions, like the military in your example.

Not a bad idea actually, just not *my* thing. But I can see it's uses.

Pete
--
Pete Sims
Heroes or Fools? That's a determination others will make in hindsight. But by
being here now, we make that determination for ourselves, and it's neither.
Lt.Col.T.C.McQueen
Message no. 6
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:31:06 +1000
At 12:39 4/10/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Still the best way I've seen of creating characters (IMHO of course) is
>the Twilight: 2000 method of strating the character off at 18 years of age
>with a few skills, and then having him or her go through any school or job
>he/she wants to, picking up skills along the way. Sure, it takes longer
>than just assigning numbers, but it does give you a good background and a
>reason why you know what you know.
>
Gurth, to my knowledge, this technique was pioneered by Traveller long
before Twilight 2000. Anyway, I agree with you, it is a good way to go.
Makes character creation a lot longer, but definitely more interesting, and
has the added bonus of providing the player with a ready-made background.
If only someone would take to time to sit down and devise some rules
additions (hint, hint) :-)

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 7
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:09:40 -0600 (MDT)
Peter Leitch wrote:
|
|At 12:39 4/10/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
|>Still the best way I've seen of creating characters (IMHO of course) is
|>the Twilight: 2000 method of strating the character off at 18 years of age
|>with a few skills, and then having him or her go through any school or job
|>he/she wants to, picking up skills along the way. Sure, it takes longer
|>than just assigning numbers, but it does give you a good background and a
|>reason why you know what you know.
|>
|Gurth, to my knowledge, this technique was pioneered by Traveller long
|before Twilight 2000. Anyway, I agree with you, it is a good way to go.
|Makes character creation a lot longer, but definitely more interesting, and
|has the added bonus of providing the player with a ready-made background.
|If only someone would take to time to sit down and devise some rules
|additions (hint, hint) :-)

I for one would love to see it. I'd do it myself, if I hadn't gotten rid
of all my old traveller stuff, and owned T2000.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 8
From: wilsonpj@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Peter)
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 21:08:19 -0600 (CST)
Pete Sims wrote:

>I follow the standard characetr creation rules, but use the CP2020
>(slightly rewritten) background generator for a quick background, and
>let the players work out anything deeper. But regarding "professional"
>skills gained through employment, this is usually discussed between
>myself and the player, and I will award skills according to the
>characters background and employment history, it makes for some pretty
>diverse characters (I don't think we've ever had two the same).
>

I like their life-path system. When I have the time (and no firm
character concept) I use a mixture of the CP generator with some
additions from CyberSpace (I think) for physical and psyhological
character quirks. Right now it's a big sheaf of zeroxed page so I
don't have to flip through a lot of books, but someday I may get it
in a more streamlined form.

Unless I ahready have a good idea of the character, there is such a
tendency to get your standard archetype with a small twist or two.
This type of character is OK for a quick run, but I get bored with
them quickly. I eather have to go back and elaborate the charactes
background, or start from scratch.

Piatro
Message no. 9
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:41:55 +0100
Peter Leitch said on 21:31/ 5 Oct 96...

> Gurth, to my knowledge, this technique was pioneered by Traveller long
> before Twilight 2000.

That's what I read in a reveiw of the new release of Traveller, yeah. But
I've only seen T2K, not Traveller, so I used that as an example...

> Anyway, I agree with you, it is a good way to go. Makes character
> creation a lot longer, but definitely more interesting, and has the
> added bonus of providing the player with a ready-made background. If
> only someone would take to time to sit down and devise some rules
> additions (hint, hint) :-)

Shouldn't be too hard to do, but I think you'd have to either totally
remove the skill points from the character generation table, or
drastically reduce the number you get. Then it's mostly a matter of
thinking up suitable tables -- the one in T2K could probably be used
almost as they are, if you substitute SR skill names for the ones in them
now. Then add some SR-oriented ones, like "Corporate mage," "Decker,"
etc.
and you're almost there.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
No expenses spent.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 10
From: "Loki" <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:18:18 -0700
> Skill packages make sense if there's some kind of school characters can
go
> to before the game starts -- this thing came from MechWarrior, where the
> skill packages represent what your char learned in, say, basic military
> training. This would make sense for shadowrunners with a background in
> such things, like ex-soldiers, ex-corp deckers, etc. but IMO not for
> gangers-turned-shadowrunner. Sure, everybody picks up skills somewhere,
> but not everybody knows the same ones.

That's why in my original post I'd said the skill packages would be labled
for PC's like former-security-guard, or ex-military, or former-lonestar.
You could also have certain skills swappable if they wanted to be a
lone-star rigger rather than standard patrol.

>Plus SR assumes everybody can do
> things like read, write, and use a computer, which could be called a
skill
> package in itself.

Actually, after reading the novel Shadowplay, I realized how iconized the
2050's were and that not everyone can read that well, if at all. I
represent this in that all my Shadowrunners have some read/write capability
(it'd be too stick if they didn't). For most of them it's a free skill that
starts at 1/2 Intelligence. For those archetypes that do alot of reading
(Hermetic mages, deckers, highly educated individuals) it's equal to full
starting INT. After game play the Read/Write skill is raised as per any
normal special skill.

Then for required reading or writing tests, I have the player roll the
average of the Read/Write skill and the language being used. It works quite
well in my games.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 11
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:46:08 +1000 (EST)
> I like this idea. We had always played that you get 6 points of
"background"
> skills to flesh out the character. They had to be approved by the GM.
> But skill packages....hmmm... I like it. >

The skill packages idea sounds alright... on the background skills front,
I wanted to report success of this idea in our group. We each got to pick
a special skill for RP purposes, and it was rated at 4-6. I've got
skateboarding, the burglar (think Hudson Hawk) has
sleight-of-hand/prestidigitation, the decker (son of a club owner) has
Embezzling Theory, the rich-boy mage has Bartending, and the GM's
character, an ex-CIA guy, has Conspiracy Theory. I nearly killed myself
laughing with that one...


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Guardian <s777317@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:53:09 +1000 (EST)
> The skill packages idea sounds alright... on the background skills front,
> I wanted to report success of this idea in our group. We each got to pick
> a special skill for RP purposes, and it was rated at 4-6. I've got
> skateboarding, the burglar (think Hudson Hawk) has
> sleight-of-hand/prestidigitation, the decker (son of a club owner) has
> Embezzling Theory, the rich-boy mage has Bartending, and the GM's
> character, an ex-CIA guy, has Conspiracy Theory. I nearly killed myself
> laughing with that one...

Not forgetting the snake shaman (me), a former... err... lowlife with
illegal drugs knowledge.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's called tourist season, so why can't we shoot them?"
Adam Treloar aka Guardian
s777317@*****.student.gu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: NightLife <habenir@******.san.uc.edu>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 03:07:33 -0700
At 04:46 PM 10/7/96 +1000, The Jestyr wrote:
>
>> I like this idea. We had always played that you get 6 points of
"background"
>> skills to flesh out the character. They had to be approved by the GM.
>> But skill packages....hmmm... I like it. >
>
>The skill packages idea sounds alright... on the background skills front,
>I wanted to report success of this idea in our group. We each got to pick
>a special skill for RP purposes, and it was rated at 4-6. I've got
>skateboarding, the burglar (think Hudson Hawk) has
>sleight-of-hand/prestidigitation, the decker (son of a club owner) has
>Embezzling Theory, the rich-boy mage has Bartending, and the GM's
>character, an ex-CIA guy, has Conspiracy Theory. I nearly killed myself
>laughing with that one...

You can do that without skill packets. Merely choose your skills carefully
and ask about special skills like GunTricks. I knew a guy who spent 6 points
on gun tricks just so he could impress his friends and it fit into his
story. There no need to give unearned skill points.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you have to ask then it's probably classified.
Which means that I have to follow protocol.
But if you ask nicley I might forget that you asked.
Then again maybe not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 14
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 01:19:00 +1000
At 12:41 6/10/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Peter Leitch said on 21:31/ 5 Oct 96...
>
>> Gurth, to my knowledge, this technique was pioneered by Traveller long
>> before Twilight 2000.
>
>That's what I read in a reveiw of the new release of Traveller, yeah. But
>I've only seen T2K, not Traveller, so I used that as an example...
>
>> Anyway, I agree with you, it is a good way to go. Makes character
>> creation a lot longer, but definitely more interesting, and has the
>> added bonus of providing the player with a ready-made background. If
>> only someone would take to time to sit down and devise some rules
>> additions (hint, hint) :-)
>
>Shouldn't be too hard to do, but I think you'd have to either totally
>remove the skill points from the character generation table, or
>drastically reduce the number you get. Then it's mostly a matter of
>thinking up suitable tables -- the one in T2K could probably be used
>almost as they are, if you substitute SR skill names for the ones in them
>now. Then add some SR-oriented ones, like "Corporate mage,"
"Decker," etc.
>and you're almost there.

Hmmm...as a matter of curiousity, I checked up on the skills in the new
Traveller
book and my initial thoughts are that the Traveller skills would require a
significant
re-write in order to make them fit. Not a good idea; might as well start from
scratch...not that I'm volunteering just yet, mind you. I still have to
earn a living.
Oh, well...nice thought.

I know!! Maybe we can all convince some Dutch bloke to do it! Yeah! After
all, he
did a terrific job on the NERPS Underworld, now didn't he? :-)
PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 15
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 07:58:41 +1000 (EST)
> skill packages represent what your char learned in, say, basic military
> training. This would make sense for shadowrunners with a background in
> such things, like ex-soldiers, ex-corp deckers, etc. but IMO not for
> gangers-turned-shadowrunner.

Hmmm... you'd be surprised how much training the well-organised gangs
give their members. The main problem with a ganger package would be that
it's exactly what many people choose to start with anyway. Say, bit of
Firearms, bit of Unarmed, bit of Armed, decent Street Etiquette, maybe
some Fast-talk, and/or Stealth.

Player: "You mean I get all these for a reduced price with this character
background?"
GM: "Yep, but you're not allowed to take Physics, or Military
Theory, to start with."
Player: (Grinning widely) "Ohhh... darn that. Oh well!"

Seems a bit too convenient. :)


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 16
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:04:21 +1000 (EST)
> > The skill packages idea sounds alright... on the background skills front,
> > I wanted to report success of this idea in our group. We each got to pick
> > a special skill for RP purposes, and it was rated at 4-6. I've got
> > skateboarding, the burglar (think Hudson Hawk) has
> > sleight-of-hand/prestidigitation, the decker (son of a club owner) has
> > Embezzling Theory, the rich-boy mage has Bartending, and the GM's
> > character, an ex-CIA guy, has Conspiracy Theory. I nearly killed myself
> > laughing with that one...
>
> Not forgetting the snake shaman (me), a former... err... lowlife with
> illegal drugs knowledge.

Didn't forget you, but when the GM turned down seduction, I couldn't
remember what you'd taken instead. Looks like you took drugs. *giggle*


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 17
From: Guardian <s777317@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:42:44 +1000 (EST)
> > Not forgetting the snake shaman (me), a former... err... lowlife with
> > illegal drugs knowledge.
>
> Didn't forget you, but when the GM turned down seduction, I couldn't
> remember what you'd taken instead. Looks like you took drugs. *giggle*

*grin* Yeah, that too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's called tourist season, so why can't we shoot them?"
Adam Treloar aka Guardian
s777317@*****.student.gu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 18
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:19:53 +0100
The Jestyr said on 7:58/ 8 Oct 96...

> Hmmm... you'd be surprised how much training the well-organised gangs
> give their members. The main problem with a ganger package would be that
> it's exactly what many people choose to start with anyway. Say, bit of
> Firearms, bit of Unarmed, bit of Armed, decent Street Etiquette, maybe
> some Fast-talk, and/or Stealth.

I don't like giving reduced skill costs to characters in SR... I'm much
more in favour of the Traveller-like terms you go through, instead of
simply picking the skills you want. This could give much the same results
as getting skill packages, but it doesn't come as cheap IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Learn their rules, play their game, deceive yourself in haste.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 19
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:19:52 +0100
Peter Leitch said on 1:19/ 8 Oct 96...

> Hmmm...as a matter of curiousity, I checked up on the skills in the new
> Traveller book and my initial thoughts are that the Traveller skills
> would require a significant re-write in order to make them fit. Not a
> good idea; might as well start from scratch...

Okay, how about this one from Twilight: 2000...

JOURNALIST
Entry: Undergraduate degree or Charisma 4+
First term skills:
Computer 1
Etiquette 1
Interrogation 2
Subsequent term skills:
Car
Etiquette
Interrogation
(language)
Stealth
Promotion: 4+ (on 1D6)
Contacts: two per term, government or law enforcement

I've left out some skills that have no SR equivalent (like Observation)
and replaced Persuasion by Etiquette, but that's about all there's to it.

> not that I'm volunteering just yet, mind you. I still have to earn a
> living. Oh, well...nice thought.
>
> I know!! Maybe we can all convince some Dutch bloke to do it! Yeah!
> After all, he did a terrific job on the NERPS Underworld, now didn't he?
> :-)

*Quickly looks around for another Dutch bloke who worked on Underworld*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Learn their rules, play their game, deceive yourself in haste.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 20
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 19:24:39 +1000
At 13:19 8/10/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Peter Leitch said on 1:19/ 8 Oct 96...
<snip Traveller comment>
>Okay, how about this one from Twilight: 2000...
>
>JOURNALIST
>Entry: Undergraduate degree or Charisma 4+
>First term skills:
> Computer 1
> Etiquette 1
> Interrogation 2
>Subsequent term skills:
> Car
> Etiquette
> Interrogation
> (language)
> Stealth
>Promotion: 4+ (on 1D6)
>Contacts: two per term, government or law enforcement
>
>I've left out some skills that have no SR equivalent (like Observation)
>and replaced Persuasion by Etiquette, but that's about all there's to it.

Looks great, but why take out Observation. Make it a Special Skill.
Better yet, create a general skill Awareness, with Observation as one
of the concentrations; perhaps Blind Fighting as another, and so on.

<snip>

>> I know!! Maybe we can all convince some Dutch bloke to do it! Yeah!
>> After all, he did a terrific job on the NERPS Underworld, now didn't he?
>> :-)
>
>*Quickly looks around for another Dutch bloke who worked on Underworld*

ROTFL&L&L&L........finally weeping

Oh...I think I did myself an injury!

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 21
From: olafurg@******.is (olafur gunnarsson)
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:06:45 GMT
Using T2000 char creation in SR
Snip Snip
well i decided to try and see if it can be done here are my results
Prioritys:Skills:A Attribs: c Resources:b Human no magic

Note he can only take as many pts of skill as his skill priority says(40p=
ts)
plus a few bonus pts for the career im bascily copying careers from T2000
and Dark conspiracy and adding the career company rigger. Note the player
can only spend a total of six points in skills per term plus scndry activ=
ity
he may spend less if he wants to save skills in another career except he
always has to take the initial term
skills if he doesnt have pts to do that he cant join the career
Each term is 1-6 years or four if so choosen
Attribs:
B:3 Q:4 S:2 C:2 I:4 W:5 E: R:

Bckgrnd skills: Computer:2 Eiquette::2 Car:2 Language:2

1st Career: Undergrad university:
(use int instead of edu)
Computer:2 Chemistry:2
Scndry activity: racing cars(cars:1)
Contact: a fellow student who also liked to race cars who then becomes a
journalist.

2nd career Joins the Ucas Army Armor Arm
Basic training: Firearms:1 Unarmed:1 Car:1 Thrown wpns:1 Stealth:1 (extra
skill Etiquette(military):1
Armor training:
Gunnery:2 Vector thrust:2 (Bonus skill etiq(military):1
scndry activity: Starts getting interested in electronics begins taking
nightclasses Electronics:1
Contact: Ucas soldier roll 2d6 if roll is 8+ he has quit the army when
character enters game and has become another type of contact (likely stre=
et
sam rigger company man merc etc etc)
Signs a eight year contract with the army and gets fitted with an Vehicle
control rig lvl:1 at half price

3rd career: Armor Arm
Vect thrust:2 gunnery:1 vehicle b/r:1 Firearms:2 stealth:1(Bonus skill
etiq(military):1
scndry activity: electronics:1
Contact: Ucas soldier a member of the Ucas Matrix warfare division (decke=
r)
roll 2d6 against 8+ to see if he´s still in the army.

4th career finishes contract with army leaves and is hired by a corporati=
on
as a rigger
Car:2 Rotor Craft:2 Firearms:1 etiquette(corp):2 Unarmed:1
scndry acvtivity:electronics:1
contact: Mr johnson

after working for the company for 1-4 years he quits and start working t=
he
shadow biz
he comes out with the following skills.
Computer:4 Etiquette(corp):4 Etiquette(military):3 car:6
Language(Spanish):4(two pts from int) English:6 Combat language:2 physica=
l
science(chemistry):2/3 Firearms:4 Unarmed combat:2
Thrown wpns:1 Vector thrust:4 Gunnery:3 Vehicle b/r:1 Electronics:3 Rotor
Craft:2 Stealth:1

>From the Army he gets a vehicle control rig:2 at half price 30.000Y leavi=
ng
him with 270.000Y
to spend on other stuff.

Also he has something of an background
He begun as a student of chemistry at some school at the age of 18 then h=
is
parents who were both working for a company lost thier jobs when it went
under. So he had to quit school to make a living
he joined the army and signed an eight year contract with them joining on=
e
of thier Armored divisions and becoming a rigger After eight years of thi=
s
he quit and was hired as a rigger with some company were worked for 1-4
years then quit and started hiring out as a freelance rigger.
he is 31 when he starts the game 3yrs school 8 yrs military 1 yr corporat=
e
plus 18
Not much but more than one often sees with a player.
I LIKE IT :)
So what do you think this work or not
-Olafur Gunnarsson/Madbyron/Smudge-
Message no. 22
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:05:03 -0600 (MDT)
olafur gunnarsson wrote:
|
[snip]
|
|Not much but more than one often sees with a player.

True.

|I LIKE IT :)
|So what do you think this work or not

Definitely a great idea for beginning players, or players
unexperienced with fleshing out backgrounds for their
characters. And a good spark for the imagination of
experienced players.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 23
From: 3011_3@***.EDU
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 12:48:06 -0700 (PDT)
<snip, journalist>
> >I've left out some skills that have no SR equivalent (like Observation)
> >and replaced Persuasion by Etiquette, but that's about all there's to it.
>
> Looks great, but why take out Observation. Make it a Special Skill.
> Better yet, create a general skill Awareness, with Observation as one
> of the concentrations; perhaps Blind Fighting as another, and so on.

Just one minor question, how would you handle that? The test for
spotting stuff is well described in the SRII book as a perception test...
anyway, would you roll Observation dice *instead* of perc/int dice?...
but that would make it prohibitively expensive... perhaps *in addition
to*... but then it would be super easy to spot anything... I'd like to
see some methid of spotting stuff that isn't tied to INT, but I have'nt
seen one yet... If you have more details, I'd like to hear them...

---Tom---
Message no. 24
From: Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:57:25 +1000 (EST)
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Gurth wrote:

> I don't like giving reduced skill costs to characters in SR... I'm much
> more in favour of the Traveller-like terms you go through, instead of
> simply picking the skills you want. This could give much the same results
> as getting skill packages, but it doesn't come as cheap IMHO.

Once, our old GM gave out points in a skill that we'd used a lot in the
run (submersibles I think...we did a run on an underwater facility and
were hooning around in some mini-subs...fun!!! *grin*) in place of a few
karma points. This was an interesting notion that didn't really catch on, but
I wonder if it might be something to try :) It would probably only work
when the characters don't have the skill and they are doing something for the
first time...they might get 2 points in the skill to demonstrate that
during the run they learnt the basics...

Hamish the inserting his 2 cents Scot :)

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________
Message no. 25
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:07:39 +1000
At 12:48 9/10/96 -0700, 3011_3@***.EDU wrote:
>
>
><snip, journalist>
>> >I've left out some skills that have no SR equivalent (like Observation)
>> >and replaced Persuasion by Etiquette, but that's about all there's to it.
>>
>> Looks great, but why take out Observation. Make it a Special Skill.
>> Better yet, create a general skill Awareness, with Observation as one
>> of the concentrations; perhaps Blind Fighting as another, and so on.
>
>Just one minor question, how would you handle that? The test for
>spotting stuff is well described in the SRII book as a perception test...
>anyway, would you roll Observation dice *instead* of perc/int dice?...
>but that would make it prohibitively expensive... perhaps *in addition
>to*... but then it would be super easy to spot anything... I'd like to
>see some methid of spotting stuff that isn't tied to INT, but I have'nt
>seen one yet... If you have more details, I'd like to hear them...

The Awareness skill, or Observation concentration, could be used
either of two ways. You could simple add the extra dice to an
ordinary Perception test,or you could use the skill like a Centering
test to reduce the target numbers of the actual test. That is, roll
Awareness vs TN 4, each success (or every two successes, if you
prefer) reduces the Perception test TN by one.
PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 26
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: RE: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:14:35 +0100
Peter Leitch said on 19:24/ 9 Oct 96...

> >JOURNALIST
[snip]
> >I've left out some skills that have no SR equivalent (like Observation)
> >and replaced Persuasion by Etiquette, but that's about all there's to it.
>
> Looks great, but why take out Observation. Make it a Special Skill.
> Better yet, create a general skill Awareness, with Observation as one
> of the concentrations; perhaps Blind Fighting as another, and so on.

Awareness or Observation skills are not really something I like to
introduce into SR, mainly because they would be a special case under the
rules as they stand now. No skill adds to an Attribute directly for the
number of dice to roll, but Observation (etc.) should be at least equal in
rating with Intelligence, else nobody would take the skill in the first
place. The net result is that you either give lotsa points for free, or add
it to Intelligence, which no other skill does.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Learn their rules, play their game, deceive yourself in haste.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 27
From: olafur gunnarsson <olafurg@******.IS>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:41:18 GMT
Snip snip

Heres something i just drew up for fun Using this one oculd keep the
prioritys system for shadowrun and add the T2000 system onto it,

No of terms per prioritys. Skills per Term points left over for fleshing out
40 pts 8 pts background skills 4 terms of 6 skill ptd+1 scndry activity 4
extra points
30 pts 8 pts background 3 terms 6 skill pts +1 scndry activity 1 extra pt
24 pts 8 pts background skills 2 terms 6 +1 scndry 2 extra points
20 pts 8 pts background skills 2 terms 6+1 scndry 5 extra pts
17 pts 8 pts background skills 1 term 6+1 scndry 2 extra points

Also heres a breakdown for careers depending on resources taken
A) any Education Attorney Civil Engineer Decker Entertainer Idle Rich Politican
Army Officer Criminal Mage Shaman Journalist Medical Doctor Manager Professor
B) Any education Attorney civil engineer Corp Rigger Decker Criminal
Entertainer
Mage Shaman
C) Tech school Undergrad University Military Academy rigger Decker Criminal
Entertainer
Goverment Agent Federal Agent Police Officer factory worker Construction
Worker Farmer Mechanic Paramedic Prison Private Investigator truck Driver
D) No schooling allowed Ganger Squatter Prison Street shaman Street Mage
Criminal Factory worker street kid
(note this is only a small part of the careers that can be gathered from
T2000 Dark Conspiracy And Traveller new era
Begining Ages
18 for most careers 15 for gangers 13 or 9 for street kids
Message no. 28
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:08:47 -0800
At 11:14 10/10/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Peter Leitch said on 19:24/ 9 Oct 96...
>> Looks great, but why take out Observation. Make it a Special Skill.
>> Better yet, create a general skill Awareness, with Observation as one
>> of the concentrations; perhaps Blind Fighting as another, and so on.

>Awareness or Observation skills are not really something I like to
>introduce into SR, mainly because they would be a special case under the
>rules as they stand now. No skill adds to an Attribute directly for the
>number of dice to roll, but Observation (etc.) should be at least equal in
>rating with Intelligence, else nobody would take the skill in the first
>place. The net result is that you either give lotsa points for free, or add
>it to Intelligence, which no other skill does.

One house rule my group has is that if you have one skill and a nearby one
on the Skill Web that's higher, you can roll the dice of the regular skill
at the regular target number, and (difference in skill ratings) dice at
the higher target number. This means that if you start with Firearms 6,
start using an HMG, and put a point into Gunnery, you don't suddenly get
a lot worse at using your HMG because you're rolling one die of Gunnery
instead of 6 of Firearms: instead, it's 1 of Gunnery and 5 of Firearms.
If you create an Awareness skill that's one spot away from Intelligence,
you can just roll the Awareness instead. (My group is currently debating
what to do about the horribly naff Aura Reading skill: we're contemplating
such things as having it go against lower target numbers than Intelligence,
or having one success on Aura Reading count as two on Intelligence for the
same roll. A similar thing could be done for Awareness.)
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 29
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:00:03 -0700
> <snip, journalist>
> > >I've left out some skills that have no SR equivalent (like
Observation)
> > >and replaced Persuasion by Etiquette, but that's about all there's to
it.
> >
> > Looks great, but why take out Observation. Make it a Special Skill.
> > Better yet, create a general skill Awareness, with Observation as one
> > of the concentrations; perhaps Blind Fighting as another, and so on.
>
> Just one minor question, how would you handle that? The test for
> spotting stuff is well described in the SRII book as a perception test...

> anyway, would you roll Observation dice *instead* of perc/int dice?...
> but that would make it prohibitively expensive... perhaps *in addition
> to*... but then it would be super easy to spot anything... I'd like to
> see some methid of spotting stuff that isn't tied to INT, but I have'nt
> seen one yet... If you have more details, I'd like to hear them...

You could do it like I do with some of the Special and Knowledge skills.
Handle it like a centering test. Have the player roll his observation dice
at a T# of the perception test (free action) then for every two successes
add an additional dice to the perception test roll.

I also use this for knowledge skills on tests they'd apply to, cuz I find
knowledge skills are otherwise little used or left by the way-side.
Psychology can be rolled as a free action, every two successes add one more
die to things like Negotiation or Intergoation. Sociology can be used like
this to aid Etiquette tests. Biology can be used to aid biotech and first
aid tests. And so on...

This free action roll only applies when using the skill to augment another.
Otherwise normal skill use rules apply. It just makes sense to me though
that someone with psychology, that knows what makes people tick, would have
a little edge in something like negotiation.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 30
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 12:41:18 +0100
olafur gunnarsson said on 16:41/10 Oct 96...

> No of terms per prioritys. Skills per Term points left over for fleshing out
> 40 pts 8 pts background skills 4 terms of 6 skill ptd+1 scndry activity 4
> extra points
> 30 pts 8 pts background 3 terms 6 skill pts +1 scndry activity 1 extra pt
> 24 pts 8 pts background skills 2 terms 6 +1 scndry 2 extra points
> 20 pts 8 pts background skills 2 terms 6+1 scndry 5 extra pts
> 17 pts 8 pts background skills 1 term 6+1 scndry 2 extra points

Could you *please* punctuate your sentences a bit better? This is really a
pain in the ass to make sense of...

Apart from that, it looks okay, especially the restricted terms depending
on the Resources taken (no Idle Rich for priority E, for example).
Although some things may need some swapping around: politician, for
example -- I could be a politician, despite having hardly any money, but
just not on a national level.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's really all the same, and no one's happy and nobody's to blame.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 31
From: olafur gunnarsson <olafurg@******.IS>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:53:17 GMT
About my Writing.
Snip snip

Sorry Gurth that was typed up from a piece of paper i scrawled on the night
before
If you want i can write it up agai and try to make it more coherent.But i
also have a problem my english isnt all that good when it comes to , and .
-Olafur Gunnarsson/Madbyron/Smudge-
Message no. 32
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Skill packages
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:37:42 +0100
olafur gunnarsson said on 17:53/11 Oct 96...

> Sorry Gurth that was typed up from a piece of paper i scrawled on the night
> before
> If you want i can write it up agai and try to make it more coherent.But i
> also have a problem my english isnt all that good when it comes to , and .

It's not the English, which is good if you ask me. It's that you use so
very few commas and other punctuation marks that your messages are hard to
read...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Meanwhile, the next day...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 33
From: pentaj2@****.edu (Penta John C)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 01:57:51 -0400
An idea I remember from the old MechWarrior RPG. Never actually played
a game with it, but I reemember it. Anyhow, they had a neat thing for
character creation: The concept of skills packages to represent, say, a
college education, an advanced military training course, and so forth.
Wonder if people could do that here. Define a list of skills, and
levels. What at what level would be part of x achievement? This could
be useful in terms of representing peoples' times in college, or in
military service, or such.

Like, what skills would be gotten by getting a BA doublemajors in
History and Polisci? What's represented by time at the police academy?
Etc etc etc.

I'm barely awake, but anybody mind fleshin this out for me?
Message no. 34
From: SteveG@***********.co.za (Steve Garrard)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:59:31 +0200
Penta John C wrote:
> An idea I remember from the old MechWarrior RPG. Never
> actually played
> a game with it, but I reemember it. Anyhow, they had a neat thing for
> character creation: The concept of skills packages to
> represent, say, a
> college education, an advanced military training course, and
> so forth.
> Wonder if people could do that here. Define a list of skills, and
> levels. What at what level would be part of x achievement? This could
> be useful in terms of representing peoples' times in college, or in
> military service, or such.
>
> [snip]

Actually, I did something like this at the beginning of my current campaign.
The players were all disavowed employees of a security company acting as a
front for corp-financed shadowruns. As such, they were all trained to meet
the requirements of their jobs, even though once the campaign started, they
didn't have them anymore.

I just worked out what basic skills they would require, and then put
together a couple of "elective packages" to add a little variety. As for
college educations though, I think the easiest thing to do is sit down and
work out for yourself what skills you think would be included in certain
degrees, and at what rating.


Slayer

"Beware my wrath, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
- Unknown Dragon


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Message no. 35
From: markus.widmer@******.at (Markus Widmer)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:24:47 +0200
Penta John C wrote:

> An idea I remember from the old MechWarrior RPG. Never actually
played
> a game with it, but I reemember it. Anyhow, they had a neat thing
for
> character creation: The concept of skills packages to represent,
say, a
> college education, an advanced military training course, and so
forth.
> Wonder if people could do that here. Define a list of skills, and
> levels.

Sounds a lot like character classes in Call of Cthulhu or Warhammer
Fantasy Role-Play. They work with a compromise between
character-class-systems like D&D and point-based systems like
Shadowrun. With your character's profession or career comes a set of
skills associated with the particular experienced gathered in training
and practice. None of these systems, however, have fixed skill levels
for the different skills in a set. I don't know the MechWarrior RPG,
though.

A list of skills associated with a particular job or background might
be helpful for new players generating a character, or for GMs looking
for NPC templates. I wouldn't propose skill sets as a knew system of
character generation, though. It is more work, but also more fun, for
the GM to put the players through the process of justifying each of
their skills with an appropriate element of their character
backgrounds. It's the definite mechanism against munchkins.

Markus
Message no. 36
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:49:25 -0700
On Wed, 28 May 2003 10:59:31 +0200
Steve Garrard <SteveG@***********.co.za> wrote:
> Penta John C wrote:
> The concept of skills packages to
> > represent, say, a college education, an advanced military training
> > course, and so forth.

> > [snip]
>

> Slayer

Well, in SR you'd still get the same amount of skills based on points.
THere's no need for Hero System style bonus deals.
--Anders
Message no. 37
From: pentaj2@****.edu (Penta John C)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:55:00 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Garrard <SteveG@***********.co.za>
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 4:59 am
Subject: RE: Skill packages

> Penta John C wrote:
> > An idea I remember from the old MechWarrior RPG. Never
> > actually played
> > a game with it, but I reemember it. Anyhow, they had a neat
> thing for
> > character creation: The concept of skills packages to
> > represent, say, a
> > college education, an advanced military training course, and
> > so forth.
> > Wonder if people could do that here. Define a list of skills,
> and
> > levels. What at what level would be part of x achievement? This
> could
> > be useful in terms of representing peoples' times in college, or
> in
> > military service, or such.
> >
> > [snip]
>
> Actually, I did something like this at the beginning of my current
> campaign.The players were all disavowed employees of a security
> company acting as a
> front for corp-financed shadowruns. As such, they were all trained
> to meet
> the requirements of their jobs, even though once the campaign
> started, they
> didn't have them anymore.
>
> I just worked out what basic skills they would require, and then put
> together a couple of "elective packages" to add a little variety.
> As for
> college educations though, I think the easiest thing to do is sit
> down and
> work out for yourself what skills you think would be included in
> certaindegrees, and at what rating.

That's hard, and I'm clueless.:-)
Message no. 38
From: pentaj2@****.edu (Penta John C)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:59:07 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Markus Widmer <markus.widmer@******.at>
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 5:24 am
Subject: Re: Skill packages

> Penta John C wrote:
>
> > An idea I remember from the old MechWarrior RPG. Never actually
> played
> > a game with it, but I reemember it. Anyhow, they had a neat thing
> for
> > character creation: The concept of skills packages to represent,
> say, a
> > college education, an advanced military training course, and so
> forth.
> > Wonder if people could do that here. Define a list of skills, and
> > levels.
>
> Sounds a lot like character classes in Call of Cthulhu or Warhammer
> Fantasy Role-Play. They work with a compromise between
> character-class-systems like D&D and point-based systems like
> Shadowrun. With your character's profession or career comes a set of
> skills associated with the particular experienced gathered in training
> and practice. None of these systems, however, have fixed skill levels
> for the different skills in a set. I don't know the MechWarrior RPG,
> though.
>
> A list of skills associated with a particular job or background might
> be helpful for new players generating a character, or for GMs looking
> for NPC templates. I wouldn't propose skill sets as a knew system of
> character generation, though. It is more work, but also more fun, for
> the GM to put the players through the process of justifying each of
> their skills with an appropriate element of their character
> backgrounds. It's the definite mechanism against munchkins.

That's more what I'm going for. It gets very hard to say, as a player
or GM, "OK. My character has done X. What would he have learned there,
or gotten in skills?"

I have a background all written out, but I can't match skills with it.

John
Message no. 39
From: pentaj2@****.edu (Penta John C)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:45:33 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:49 am
Subject: Re: Skill packages

> On Wed, 28 May 2003 10:59:31 +0200
> Steve Garrard <SteveG@***********.co.za> wrote:
> > Penta John C wrote:
> > The concept of skills packages to
> > > represent, say, a college education, an advanced military
> training
> > > course, and so forth.
>
> > > [snip]
> >
>
> > Slayer
>
> Well, in SR you'd still get the same amount of skills based on points.
> THere's no need for Hero System style bonus deals.
> --Anders

Huh? I wasn't thinking bonus deals.

I was thinking of ways of organizing things.
Message no. 40
From: dhyde79@***.net (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:58:21 -0500
> Actually, I did something like this at the beginning of my current campaign.
> The players were all disavowed employees of a security company acting as a
> front for corp-financed shadowruns. As such, they were all trained to meet
> the requirements of their jobs, even though once the campaign started, they
> didn't have them anymore.
>
> I just worked out what basic skills they would require, and then put
> together a couple of "elective packages" to add a little variety. As for
> college educations though, I think the easiest thing to do is sit down and
> work out for yourself what skills you think would be included in certain
> degrees, and at what rating.


I was working on something like this for my last group, we were bigger on
the roleplaying aspect and thereby everyone had a decent background for
their characters, we were going to write up a storyline background for
everyone and then give them the skills that they would have appropriately
had based upon their training. Also was working on a "skill degradation"
rule for when you have a skill but never use it to actually keep it up,
first dropping it to a knowledge skill then actually starting to lower the
rating.... But regardless, if you're a roleplaying group I think the
packages type of thing is a good idea cause it brings logic into it, I mean
if you're playing an ex-military type that went to "blah" schools when they
were in then they're gonna have a good variety of skills that they were
taught while in....
Message no. 41
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:58:09 -0700
On Wed, 28 May 2003 13:45:33 -0400
Penta John C <pentaj2@****.edu> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Anders Swenson <anders@**********.com>
> Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:49 am
> Subject: Re: Skill packages
>
> > On Wed, 28 May 2003 10:59:31 +0200
> > Steve Garrard <SteveG@***********.co.za> wrote:
> > > Penta John C wrote:
> > > The concept of skills packages to
> > > > represent, say, a college education, an advanced military
> > > > training course, and so forth.
> >
> > > > [snip]
> > >
> > THere's no need for Hero System style bonus deals.
> > --Anders
>
> Huh? I wasn't thinking bonus deals.
>
> I was thinking of ways of organizing things.
>

Sorry, no offense. That's just what first occurred to me, since SR to me
always leaves you not nearly as broadly experienced as you would wish. The
default skill rules give too many minuses.
--Anders
Message no. 42
From: orcstsam@*****.com (Chris Haase)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
> I was working on something like this for my last
> group, we were bigger on
> the roleplaying aspect and thereby everyone had a
> decent background for
> their characters, we were going to write up a
> storyline background for
> everyone and then give them the skills that they
> would have appropriately
> had based upon their training. Also was working on
> a "skill degradation"
> rule for when you have a skill but never use it to
> actually keep it up,
> first dropping it to a knowledge skill then actually
> starting to lower the
> rating.... But regardless, if you're a roleplaying
> group I think the
> packages type of thing is a good idea cause it
> brings logic into it, I mean
> if you're playing an ex-military type that went to
> "blah" schools when they
> were in then they're gonna have a good variety of
> skills that they were
> taught while in....
>


The greatest fear I see here is the Munchkin ends up
with a character with lots of skills because he went
to University at age 12 and Military at age 16, and so
on. One of the old versions of the Twilight 2000 RPG
(and I think their system was borrowed from another
RPG) gave an age requirement and time frame for each
skill package. For example, Military Background
cannot be taken before age 18, and adds 4 years to the
character's life. If a system like this were
implemented with the skill packages I would allow my
players access to the packages.

Just a thought......

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Message no. 43
From: ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:47:54 -0800
>The greatest fear I see here is the Munchkin ends up
>with a character with lots of skills because he went
>to University at age 12 and Military at age 16, and so
>on. One of the old versions of the Twilight 2000 RPG
>(and I think their system was borrowed from another
>RPG) gave an age requirement and time frame for each
>skill package. For example, Military Background
>cannot be taken before age 18, and adds 4 years to the
>character's life. If a system like this were
>implemented with the skill packages I would allow my
>players access to the packages.

>Just a thought......

Seeing as how I have the MechWarrior RPG book, they have an age requirement.
Like you can only take one Early Childhood path (8-12), one Early Adult path
(12-16/18)
and as many Adult paths as you like (each has a specific time). They also
had skill/stat degredation so that you couldn't spend a life in school and
then try and be a MechWarrior/Tech/Soldier/whatever.
Message no. 44
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:01:56 +0200
According to Chris Haase, on Wednesday 28 May 2003 23:15 the word on the
street was...

> One of the old versions of the Twilight 2000 RPG
> (and I think their system was borrowed from another
> RPG) gave an age requirement and time frame for each
> skill package. For example, Military Background
> cannot be taken before age 18, and adds 4 years to the
> character's life.

Twilight: 2000 second edition has you go through a series of "careers";
each lasts four years (called a "term"), and gives you a number of fixed
skills for the first time you take it, and a list of skills from which to
choose every additional time you go through the same career. (How many
points you get is based on how many terms you've had so far in all -- not
just in your current career.) A similar system is used in Traveller: The
New Era, which uses the same rules system as T2K v2.2, but in Traveller
it's a bit less specific, probably to cope with the wider variation
possible in a sci-fi setting. In T2K, how many careers you get is decided
by a die roll at the end of each one; if you roll less than your current
term number, you're (almost) done generating your character. I don't
remember how T:TNE handles this, though.

The third edition of MechWarrior used essentially a similar system, BTW.

To do this in SR, you'd have to come up with a decent list of careers and
their skills. For example:

Corporate Security Guard
Requirements: Intelligence >= 3 (or maybe < 3 ;)
Initial Skills:
Clubs 1
Etiquette (Corporate) 2
Pistols 2
Shotguns 2
Stealth 1
Unarmed Combat 2
Subsequent Skills:
Assault Rifles
Car
Clubs
Etiquette
Interrogation
Intimidation
Leadership
Pistols
Shotguns
SMGs
Stealth
Unarmed Combat

You'd also have to devise a way to decide how many skill points characters
get per term, and how many terms they can take. One way to do the latter
might be to use the Skills priority from the standard chargen rules: once
a character has received/spent enough skill points to reach that limit,
the character is done.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hooligans (zn) baldadige watervogel
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 45
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:52:18 +0200
According to Anders Swenson, on Wednesday 28 May 2003 19:58 the word on the
street was...

> Sorry, no offense. That's just what first occurred to me, since SR to me
> always leaves you not nearly as broadly experienced as you would wish.

A broad experience is easy: just take lots of skills; broadly experienced
_and_ well-versed in many skills is not really possible with the SR skill
system, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hooligans (zn) baldadige watervogel
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 46
From: Moryarti@**********.worldnet.att.net (Griff M. Warren II)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:58:17 -0400
Agreed. I recently started looking at the BeCKS karma character system
and it seems to generate a more diverse skill lot than the priority or
SRC point systems. Skills aren't always as high but there are more of
them, which I think is better from a roleplaying perspective for new
characters anyway.

Griff Warren

>Sorry, no offense. That's just what first occurred to me, since SR to me
>always leaves you not nearly as broadly experienced as you would wish. The
>default skill rules give too many minuses.
>--Anders
>
>
>
Message no. 47
From: aestus_preliator@*****.com (Sihr al Din)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment
Yes, and in terms of creating starting characters, this is good. That's why I never
understood how munchkin players can have any fun. I mean, they have all the skills, powers
and gadgets their character needs, and so to challenge them, you either have to take away
the majority of their stuff, or throw ungodly amounts of powerful enemies their way, and
neither solution is any fun for the players.


Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
A broad experience is easy: just take lots of skills; broadly experienced
_and_ well-versed in many skills is not really possible with the SR skill
system, though.

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Message no. 48
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:06:03 +0200
Sihr al Din wrote :

> Yes, and in terms of creating starting characters, this is good.
> That's why I never understood how munchkin players can have any fun. I
> mean, they have all the skills, powers and gadgets their character
> needs, and so to challenge them, you either have to take away the
> majority of their stuff, or throw ungodly amounts of powerful enemies
> their way, and neither solution is any fun for the players.

Not true. To paraphrase Major Kusanagi, "overspecializing will weaken
you." Most munchkin characters are unbeatable in their field of
expertise, but possess so many weaknesses (in fact, they'll be weak in
every other field) that are so obvious it's a joke. Not to mention that
even in said field of expertise (which is usually combat) munchkin
players rely solely on their characters' attributes to survive. By
using some tactics you can easily give them a run for their money, even
if the opposition consists of uncybered mundanes with heavy pistols.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 49
From: nightgyr@*********.com.au (GreyWolf)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:16:32 +1000
> Not true. To paraphrase Major Kusanagi, "overspecializing will weaken
> you." Most munchkin characters are unbeatable in their field of
> expertise, but possess so many weaknesses (in fact, they'll be weak in
> every other field) that are so obvious it's a joke. Not to mention that
> even in said field of expertise (which is usually combat) munchkin
> players rely solely on their characters' attributes to survive. By
> using some tactics you can easily give them a run for their money, even
> if the opposition consists of uncybered mundanes with heavy pistols.


Or even light pistols....

... as at least one of my players might end up finding out shortly. You can
only roll so many dice without dropping a lot of 1's into the festivities.

GreyWolf
Message no. 50
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:08:38 +0200
According to GreyWolf, on Monday 02 June 2003 00:16 the word on the street
was...

> Or even light pistols....

Use the often-posted autofire house rules (the ones that let you hit with
some or all of the bullets you fire, not just all or none), and even a
full-auto light pistol can be a real threat. My players discovered this a
few years ago when they ran into four goons armed with nothing more than
that; this left them with two PCs with Deadly wounds, including one they
couldn't save at all anymore.

Of course, part of the reason was the almost complete lack of tactics use
by the PCs (most just stood there and fired -- even though they had the
advantage of being inside a building with the bad guys coming in through
the door) as well as the cowardly shaman (the player, and as a result the
character, too) choosing to hide behind the furniture instead of
contributing to the fight in any way he could...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Hooligans (zn) baldadige watervogel
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 51
From: SteveG@***********.co.za (Steve Garrard)
Subject: Skill packages
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:49:26 +0200
GreyWolf wrote:
> > Not true. To paraphrase Major Kusanagi, "overspecializing
> will weaken
> > you." Most munchkin characters are unbeatable in their field of
> > expertise, but possess so many weaknesses (in fact, they'll
> be weak in
> > every other field) that are so obvious it's a joke. Not to mention
> > that even in said field of expertise (which is usually combat)
> > munchkin players rely solely on their characters' attributes to
> > survive. By using some tactics you can easily give them a run for
> > their money, even if the opposition consists of uncybered mundanes
> > with heavy pistols.
>
>
> Or even light pistols....
>
> ... as at least one of my players might end up finding out
> shortly. You can only roll so many dice without dropping a
> lot of 1's into the festivities.
>
> GreyWolf

I discovered a brilliant way to deal with uber-characters the other day:
snipers! Most snipers are skilled enough to generate several successes on
their attack roll, countering the multitude of successes normally generated
by said uber-character's damage resistance test, plus the base damage level
of most sniper rifles is S or D. I took down my uninjured ork uber-character
with a single shot from a sniper rifle. The best part? I didn't have to
incinerate the other, non-uber PCs in the process.


Slayer

"Beware my wrath, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
- Unknown Dragon


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