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Message no. 1
From: Lute, David dlute@********.com
Subject: Sky Diving was Re: Advanced Metamagic
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:42:22 -0500
--
Damion Milliken writes,

So essentially, a normal person (assume Athletics 1-2?), with a bit of
instruction and a practice run (Sky Diving 1?), could make an easy jump
(TN
4?) with moderate success (1-2 successes)? I guess at this point the
Complimentary bit could go either way. I would imagine, like Doc,
however,
that a HALO jump would require more skills in Sky Diving than in
Athletics.
So an expert Sky Diver (Sky Diving 6, Athletics 1), would be a lot
better
off than a trained athlete (Sky Diving 1, Athletics 6) at hitting the
mark
and not injuring himself on a night time HALO jump. Sound reasonable?
If
it does, then I think Doc's right - the Complimentary skill becomes
Athletics. What do you think, Dave, you'd have more of an idea than me?
--

I would agree there. A simple sky dive from say 5 - 10K is not that bad and
after a class and a jump they should be ok with the 1 -2 success. That is
if they pulled the rip cord correctly. If they did not have much or any Sky
Diving skill I would make them make say 2 tests. First one to see if they
exited the plane correctly and as a result could pull the rip cord. Second
one to navigate down and land with out hurting themselves. It is up to the
GM to decide if the chute opened correctly or not and so on.

HALO I have not done (I wish but that will be in the future I hope).
Allot more complex and allot more skill and equipment needed. 1st you will
need an O2 tank and a mask to breath, second a different chute and allot
more expensive chute, and third a suit to cover your entire body to keep you
from freezing to death. If you only had a sky diving of 1 and tried a HALO
you would probably hurt or kill yourself. Almost all deaths in the sport of
skydiving come from Low entry openings and HALO is allot more that just a
Low entry opening.

A normal skydive entry and landing will not hurt you at all if you land
correctly, in fact you will only be hurt as much as if you stood on a chair
and jumped off of it. However take a Low Entry opening, if you don't time
it just right you will not have enough time for you chute to open all the
way and thus no way to slow you down, can you say OCUH!! Thought so. Low
Entry openings normally means opening the chute under 1000 feet, this gives
you just enough time to pull the rip cord, have the chute open, "flare"(how
you slow down to land), and touch your feet to the ground.

So with that I would make a Low Entry opening at least 4 success and the TN
dependant on skill and training.

Hope that helps.

Sorry for the late reply I went on vacation for my 1 year anniversary and I
didn't really have time to check the list .

DL
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Sky Diving was Re: Advanced Metamagic
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:10:13 +0100
According to Lute, David, on Mon, 27 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> If you only had a sky diving of 1 and tried a HALO you would probably
> hurt or kill yourself. Almost all deaths in the sport of skydiving come
> from Low entry openings and HALO is allot more that just a Low entry
> opening.

I don't think you should have skill level requirements -- the great thing
about the SR skill system is that anyone can, theoretically, succeed at
anything. Giving HALO a higher TN than normal parachute jumps is better
than saying flat-out that someone with a skill of 1 cannot do it.

> A normal skydive entry and landing will not hurt you at all if you land
> correctly, in fact you will only be hurt as much as if you stood on a chair
> and jumped off of it.

IOW, you can be seriously injured if you land wrong :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Bartitis -- Kei-erg!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Sky Diving was Re: Advanced Metamagic
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:30:30 -0600
>>>>
> If you only had a sky diving of 1 and tried a HALO you would probably
> hurt or kill yourself. Almost all deaths in the sport of skydiving come
> from Low entry openings and HALO is allot more that just a Low entry
> opening.

I don't think you should have skill level requirements -- the great thing
about the SR skill system is that anyone can, theoretically, succeed at
anything. Giving HALO a higher TN than normal parachute jumps is better
than saying flat-out that someone with a skill of 1 cannot do it.
>>>>

Many tasks reqire multiple successes, and if you need more succeses than you
have dice, there is no way to do it. I'd put a HALO jump in that catagory,
since it is (afaik) a complex feat where you must do several things right in
a fairly short time.

In any case, the SR skill system does NOT necessarily allow anyone to suceed
at any task.

-Mongoose
Message no. 4
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Sky Diving was Re: Advanced Metamagic
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:45:25 +0100
According to Sebastian Wiers, on Tue, 28 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> Many tasks reqire multiple successes, and if you need more succeses than you
> have dice, there is no way to do it. I'd put a HALO jump in that catagory,
> since it is (afaik) a complex feat where you must do several things right in
> a fairly short time.

There aren't many things in SR where you _need_ multiple successes to
succeed at all (beyond opposed tests, of course). IMHO, if you were to only
get one success in something like a HALO jump, you'd make it to the ground
in one piece but not necessarily safely. More successes would allow you to
land without injuring yourself, while no successes means SPLAT.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Bartitis -- Kei-erg!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Damion Milliken dam01@***.edu.au
Subject: Sky Diving was Re: Advanced Metamagic
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 18:11:40 +1100 (EST)
Lute, David writes:

> So with that I would make a Low Entry opening at least 4 success and the TN
> dependant on skill and training.
>
> Hope that helps.

Yep, it all makes pretty good sense. Although I don't think adjusting the
TN based upon training is such a good idea. The TN should be based upon the
difficulty of the task (eg 4 for a normal 5k jump, 8+ for a HALO). The
number of successes rolled determines the degree of achievement (how close
to the X, how much damage to resist upon landing, etc.). People with little
training (low skills) will automatically have a lesser chance of success
against a high TN, and less chance of a good success even if they do manage
to land a HALO jump without actually killing themselves.

> Sorry for the late reply I went on vacation for my 1 year anniversary and I
> didn't really have time to check the list .

That sounds like a good reason - hope you enjoyed yourself ;-).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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