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Message no. 1
From: Doctor Doom <JCH8169@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Slavery and Salivating, an unseen connection?
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 23:08:13 -0500
Herr Highlander:

>I will take the time to speak out against Doctor Doom's allegations that
>elementals aren't treated as slaves. You make many good points, Doctor, but
>I have to disagree with your definitions: I may go so far as to say that
>elementals are treated as freer slaves than has been recorded in history, but
>they are still bound to another's will.

An interesting statement, although the points to which it responds did not
appear in my earlier posting. I never stated that Elementals cannot be TREATED
as slaves. I merely stated the institution of conjuring these beings is not,
in and of itself, slavery.

They are subject to a finite and usually small number of directives of the
summoning Magician. They respond to and are subject to orders, they do not
wait in anticipation of the Magician's every whim. Your argument still largely
rests upon semantic, in that your supposition still depend on the use of the
word "bound". Hearken unto the fact that Elementals do not sit in anticipation
of the next desire of the Mage. They follow specific commands. True, as is
often true in the cases of authority, there are abuses of such power, but the
issue is not of such individual treatment, and I shall elucidate as to why:

You claim that ALL Magicians are slavers. Therefore, it this discussion has
transcended any questions of individual relations or interpersonal treatment.

Were you alleging that a certain Mage was acting as a slaver, that would
incorporate the issues of treatment. But that is not what you have done: You
are attacking the institution, indicating it is, due to its very nature,
slavery. You are declaring all who engage in this practice to be slavers.

Whether one mage is conducting himself in a manner similar to a slave owner is
an issue of an individual nature. Now, as to the supposition that the very act
of Elemental conjuring is slavery, you seek to impinge upon the honor of all
participants in the Hermetic tradition.

>You said that magicians don't have to use all of the services: so? Most
>usually do: I have yet to see any mage who hasn't gotten their money's worth
>from the spirit they've summoned.
>They are "free" to roam around when the magician doesn't need them: so they
>have a long leash: they still have to answer when called, and do whatever they
>are told, no matter how existence-threatening.

Once again, you have succeeded in missing my point entirely. I never stated
there was an issue of a Magician not using the full number of services garnered
during the Conjuring Test. I merely pointed out that were a mage to employ the
proverbial "short leash" on his Elementals, within a number of days equal to
the number of services, the debt to the Magician would be considered paid, and
hence, the Elemental would be able to depart.

Also, I question the validity of your statement claiming they are on long
leashes. According to the text, "the elemental is bound and effectively placed
on notice to respond to calls from the mage. The elemental then departs,
through astral space, for parts unknown. There it remains until called to
serve." I feel it a safe assumption that this indicates they have considerably
more latitude in their movements during periods between services than you would
have us believe.

>They should feel grateful for the chance to visit our world: what have they to
>enjoy? They're wrenched from their own plane (or created from the astral,
>take your pick), brought here to serve another, and then, once their services
>are complete, provided the mage doesn't add on more services with another
>ritual, they are sent back whence they came. Gee, sounds wonderful.

You see my arguments with tunnel-vision. Never did I suggest they should be
grateful. Further, you proceed from the singular assumption that they are
somehow "plucked", or wrenched, as you term it, from thier plane of origin.
Although I do not deny the possibility of the validity of this interpretation,
you may have noticed, I have attempted to respond to this issue a bit more
comprehensively, giving reasoning and rationale in regards to to several
possible cases, as opposed to your one.

One such argument is the *possibility* of compliance upon the Spirit's part,
during the act of conjuring. As many have said, Shaman do ask the Spirits for
help, and that has satisfied many that Shamans are not slavers. Why is there
such reticence to accept the chance that a metaphorically similar process may
hold true for Hermetics? Or are you prejudiced against them?

Allies (back to Carter): okay, so some eventually grow to like their master:
not all will: are they to be punished because a few others found a "good"
owner?

>Oh, and being a decker has nothing to do with this discussion. I don't traffic
>in the use of sentient creatures for my own purposes, so my conscience is
>clear.

True. Being a technomancer is besides the point. Conversely, you claimed to
occupy the Moral High Ground. Nightstalker sought to enlighten you as to the
various questionable activities present in your own profession, thereby seeking
to indicate the same level of moral turpitude that you accuse his profession of
possessing.

Regardless, such discourse is quite moot. The contension of who operates from
the position of higher morality will merely detract from the quality of this
discussion, and shall accordingly lower it to the depths of a juvenile fray.



Colonel Count von Hohenzollern und von Doom, DMSc, DSc, PhD.

Doom Technologies & Weapon Systems -- Dark Thought Publications
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.
<<<
[ Doctor Doom : jch8169@********.tamu.edu ]

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