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Message no. 1
From: Charles McKenzie <kilroy@**.wisc.edu>
Subject: Sleep spell.
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:23:28 -0600 (CST)
On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:
> Ah yes 'prisoners can be downright talkative' one of the reasons i
> like sleep spells [never mind catching innocents does not matter and
> lower drain!]

Is it possible to hit an unconcious target with a sleep spell?
In a game I was running, the mage was attacking a fairly resistant target=

with a sleep spell, and he hit her fairly hard with the spell several
times. I ruled that the damage overflow on the other targets in the area=

(small children) was enough to kill them, (3 Deadly Stun attacks), but
I'm not sure if I was correct.
Before you comment on me being a mean GM, I'd like like to point out
that the player of the mage flat out refuses to roleplay. He has yet to
do much besides cast spells at things to try to solve problems. I used
this occasion (and the forthcoming hellblast from the mage he was
attacking instead of talking to) to try to promote future communications...

Chuck McKenzie ® kilroy@***.cs.wisc.edu
Finger me for my PGP key http://yar.cs.wisc.edu/~kilroy/
UW-Madison « Madison, WI
Message no. 2
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Sleep spell.
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:52:53 +0000 (GMT)
>
> On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:
> > Ah yes 'prisoners can be downright talkative' one of the reasons i
> > like sleep spells [never mind catching innocents does not matter and
> > lower drain!]
>
> Is it possible to hit an unconcious target with a sleep spell?

Of course it is. When all stun boxes are filled, any extra stun damage
overflows onto the physical side. In other words, it's possible to be
stunned to death (although slightly difficult).

> In a game I was running, the mage was attacking a fairly resistant target=
>
> with a sleep spell, and he hit her fairly hard with the spell several
> times. I ruled that the damage overflow on the other targets in the area=

I disagree. All the people in the area would take stun damage, but the
damage shouldn't transfer from one person to another, just because one can't
take any more damage....

> (small children) was enough to kill them, (3 Deadly Stun attacks), but
> I'm not sure if I was correct.
> Before you comment on me being a mean GM, I'd like like to point out
> that the player of the mage flat out refuses to roleplay. He has yet to
> do much besides cast spells at things to try to solve problems. I used
> this occasion (and the forthcoming hellblast from the mage he was
> attacking instead of talking to) to try to promote future communications...

One way to promote role playing is have the mage (along with a couple on
freinds) waiting for a conversation with the PC mage on the astral. If he
gets cocky in those circumstances he diservs everything he gets.
Hope thats been some help!


> Chuck McKenzie ® kilroy@***.cs.wisc.edu
> Finger me for my PGP key http://yar.cs.wisc.edu/~kilroy/
> UW-Madison « Madison, WI
>
>


--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Charles McKenzie <kilroy@**.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Sleep spell.
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 18:54:29 -0600 (CST)
On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, A Halliwell wrote:
>
> I disagree. All the people in the area would take stun damage, but the
> damage shouldn't transfer from one person to another, just because one ca=
n't
> take any more damage....

It wasn't. He cast the sleep spell 3 times. Sorry for the miscommunicatio=
n.

Chuck McKenzie ® kilroy@***.cs.wisc.edu
Finger me for my PGP key http://yar.cs.wisc.edu/~kilroy/
UW-Madison « Madison, WI
Message no. 4
From: James Meiers <polbdm@****.arc.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: Sleep spell.
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 22:16:11 -0700 (MST)
I don't see how something that is supposed to only put a person
unconcious can(and has, many times) killed the person instead under
normal rules. I think it would be better if for every 2 successes past
Deadly stun, it increases the effective force of the spell to resist the
spell. Comment?
Message no. 5
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: Sleep spell.
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 95 01:27 EST
>I don't see how something that is supposed to only put a person
>unconcious can(and has, many times) killed the person instead under
>normal rules.
Under normal rules, it is possible for a person to die from to much stun.
For example when you hit someone you do stun dammage (unless you are
enhanced someway to to physical). Lets say you hit someone and do serious
stun to them and then you hit them again and to deadly stun to them. The
person who got hit would end up having serious physical wounds due to damage
overflow. Same thing with spells. Get enough successes with a stun bolt
and you can kill a person.
---Sedah Drol
--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
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Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Sleep spell.
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 11:39:35 +0100
Charles McKenzie said on 1 Dec 95...

> Is it possible to hit an unconcious target with a sleep spell?

I say you can, yes. You simply add any damage caused to the Physical
condition monitor, like all Stun overflow. Until it kills them, of
course...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'd like to be immortal. But only or a while.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Sleep spell.
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 12:03:21 +0000 (GMT)
>
> I don't see how something that is supposed to only put a person
> unconcious can(and has, many times) killed the person instead under
> normal rules. I think it would be better if for every 2 successes past
> Deadly stun, it increases the effective force of the spell to resist the
> spell. Comment?
>

Stun damage kills. It's a fact of life. If you give someone too much
anesthetic, they WILL die. If you punch someone into unconciousness and then
keep on punching, they WILL die.
Remember, spells are TOOLS. They are NOT inteligent. It's up to the caster
to decide how many dice the victim can resist this time and if he
miscalculates, the victim takes even more damage.

Stun damaging spells are used to....
a) Bring 'em back alive. or....
b) Totally frag up the enemy by attacking physical and mental registers,
thus making it almost impossible to DO anything effectively.

In the first case, you've got to be careful with your stun bolts (especially
in 1st Ed with a staging of 1 and the T# to resist equal to your sorcery
skill).
In the second case.... what the hell, he's as good as dead anyway.

Anyway.... time to go.
Any comments?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: "Mark Steedman" <RSMS@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Sleep spell.
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:28:50 GMT
Charles McKenzie writes

> On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:
> > Ah yes 'prisoners can be downright talkative' one of the reasons i
> > like sleep spells [never mind catching innocents does not matter and
> > lower drain!]
>
> Is it possible to hit an unconcious target with a sleep spell?
yes which can be a real pain if theres unconcious innocents in the
way.

> In a game I was running, the mage was attacking a fairly resistant
> target with a sleep spell, and he hit her fairly hard with the spell
> several times. I ruled that the damage overflow on the other
> targets in the area (small children) was enough to kill them, (3
> Deadly Stun attacks), but I'm not sure if I was correct.
according to SR rules it will kill them. And certainly real
overstunning will kill. There are times when i avoid wrap from odd
sleep gasses etc but i have seen NPC's get killed perm (yep all the
way past overflow) with both stun magic and tasers. The latter only
ever took stun damage, S then taser taser oops....

> Before you comment on me being a mean GM, I'd like like to point
> out
> that the player of the mage flat out refuses to roleplay. He has yet to
> do much besides cast spells at things to try to solve problems. I used
> this occasion (and the forthcoming hellblast from the mage he was
> attacking instead of talking to) to try to promote future communications...
>
The only real problems with hellblast are its affect on other PC's
that get in the way of the lesson and the drain.

Mark
Message no. 9
From: Sebastian Vilstrup <vilstrup@*****.ihi.ku.dk>
Subject: Re: Sleep spell.
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:03:56 +0100 (MET)
On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, James Meiers wrote:

> I don't see how something that is supposed to only put a person
> unconcious can(and has, many times) killed the person instead under
> normal rules. I think it would be better if for every 2 successes past
> Deadly stun, it increases the effective force of the spell to resist the
> spell. Comment?
>

Not a bad idea , actually. It would be a great thing s for those sissy "I
won't take a life" types. How about +2 power for every level above
deadly, just like in the drain calculations?


----------------------------------------------------------
Raving lunatics howl at the moon. I just howl - The Madman
Email me at your leisure - Vilstrup@*****.ihi.ku.dk
----------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Sleep spell
Date: Fri Feb 9 13:15:05 2001
In a message dated 2/9/01 10:47:56 AM, Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.com>
writes:
>Is there a spell that puts people to sleep without causing Stun
>damage, i.e. a true 'sleep' spell? I have one in mind but can't
>remember if it's necessary.

A spell that simply caused targets to fall asleep (rather than rendering them
unconscious like a Stun spell) strikes me as a Manipulation causing a Minor
Mental Change (M drain, S for an area version) with a Threshold equal to half
the target's Willpower. The key difference is the subject is only asleep, so
any loud noise or rough handling (and certainly any sort of damage) will wake
them up immediately. The Awaken spell will also instantly wake them up with
just 1 success.

Steve Kenson

Talon Studio
http://members.aol.com/talonmail
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: Sleep spell
Date: Fri Feb 9 16:55:01 2001
> A spell that simply caused targets to fall asleep (rather than
rendering them unconscious like a Stun spell) strikes me as a
Manipulation causing a Minor Mental Change (M drain, S for an area
version) with a Threshold equal to half the target's Willpower.

Not bad. Thanks, saves me the trouble of making it myself!

> The key difference is the subject is only asleep, so any loud noise
or rough handling (and certainly any sort of damage) will wake them
up immediately. The Awaken spell will also instantly wake them up
with just 1 success.
> Steve Kenson

Yes, all drawbacks, I suppose. The reason I mentioned it is
because I can think of lots of times when putting someone to sleep
would be the subtler thing to do. A Stunball with Deadly damage
might knock the guard out, but she's going to know she was knocked
out, not to mention have to recover from the damage. Put her to
sleep, she's accused of sleeping on the job, fired or reprimanded,
and maybe no-one checks on the <insert stolen item> for a day or two :)

====-Boondocker

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