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Message no. 1
From: Jim Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Slightly Diffn't Bug thread (and new .sig file)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:31:15 -0300
Hey All....

This message has two purposes...first just testing to see if my .sig
file works properly and if not how I need it modified. The second is an
idea I had and threw in for consideration just so this didn't become another
pointless 'TEST MESSAGE-Ignore this' post.
OK...this is my thought. In Awakenings they make a comment about Crash
Cart being related to the Insect Spirits....I stopped to think about what
the insects could want with taking over an organization like that when they
had the much more efficient UB. So..this is what my brain came up with (and
no, it's not cannon). Insect spirits need to use a mage or someone with
high magical potential for a Queen host. (this is the part that has no
basis in the rules -the preceding I mean) The bugs take over a Doc wagon
competitor so they can get ahold of mucho samples of mage tissue. The UB
side of the operation produces a LARGE number of willing victims. People
who are 100% committed to helping their new cause. This would include
scientists. Imagine getting scientists from multiple corps and backgrounds
and sticking them in a room together....total Anarchy. Now make them all
want to work together to produce great new things for the hive. Wondrous
technological advances. The scientists managed to come up with 100% full
regrowth of a body (cloned of course) from a tissue sample. Sure, when
they grow that fast the brain has no real cognitive ability or personality,
but that just makes it easier for the queen spirit to come take control of
the host. So.....
armies of queens can suddenly be created.
This is the part I like...One of my players has a fairly well fleshed
out background....the bit that works so nicely is this.... Her mother
(deceased in terrorist bombing) was magically active. Her family was also
wealthy enough to afford major medical. Now.... Suppose a tissue sample or
10 were kept around? I mean, would you really want to take the off chance
of chucking a rich mages DNA when the storage is prepaid for life?
(basically a 'life' = 20 years minimum. kinda like jail.) So...the sample
is still there. The bugs take it, clone it, and queen it. Suddenly the
poor player starts seeing her mother wandering around Seattle. I figure I
can make her think she's starting to lose her mind a bit.... Since she's a
mage she can astral assense and yup...it's her mom's aura all right. Am
waiting to see how things go before I plan too much farther into
it....thoughts, flames, comments?

JR


Warning: Be on the look out for a high speed free spirit. It's preferred
form is a small Native American boy.
Known Aliases: Little Running Joke

Welcome to the Shadows of Washington, DCLXVI Chummer! We got more
demoncrats
and Sinators than you can shake a stun baton at. --Anonymous

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Message no. 2
From: Greg <Greg@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slightly Diffn't Bug thread (and new .sig file)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:57:52 -0400
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Jim Riegel wrote:
> The scientists managed to come up with 100% full
> regrowth of a body (cloned of course) from a tissue sample. Sure, when
> they grow that fast the brain has no real cognitive ability or personality,
> but that just makes it easier for the queen spirit to come take control of
> the host. So.....
> armies of queens can soon be created

One consideration (but not necessarily a problem) with this is the real
impossibility of a purely scientific growth speeder; the delicate and
complex paths that the development of neural tissue alone must follow
preclude this. Of course it is exactly the sort of thing that powereful
ritual magic is made for so it is hardly a reason not to use this line of
thought.

One thing that is a problem is the "armies of queens" things. Hive based
insects are really, really territorial. The only use for this would be to
saturate a LARGE area with hives (Queens are not particularly fond of
competition) if this were to be done then what you would get are a great
number of tiny "start-up" hives that had not had time to grow before
discovery (quantity of strangeness tips people off). A vaguely cool idea
but I have a feeling this is not what you were thinking and it would
require a great explanation because I can't think of a situation in which
a hive would want to do that (course, that doesn't mean there isn't one).

> This is the part I like...One of my players has a fairly well fleshed
> out background....the bit that works so nicely is this.... Her mother
> (deceased in terrorist bombing) was magically active. Her family was also
> wealthy enough to afford major medical. Now.... Suppose a tissue sample or
> 10 were kept around? I mean, would you really want to take the off chance
> of chucking a rich mages DNA when the storage is prepaid for life?
> (basically a 'life' = 20 years minimum. kinda like jail.) So...the sample
> is still there. The bugs take it, clone it, and queen it. Suddenly the
> poor player starts seeing her mother wandering around Seattle. I figure I
> can make her think she's starting to lose her mind a bit.... Since she's a
> mage she can astral assense and yup...it's her mom's aura all right.

Two problems: Queens are damn near sessile for most flavors of hive based
insects. I think a giant termite queen shlubbing along would attact
attention mother or not. Also, the aura is not tied solely to the
physical form. If this were so than astral projection would be
meaningless and impossible. What the aura would look like is a corrupted
and inhuman aura which MIGHT subtly resemble the aura of her mother.

The whole thing might work for Wasp or Mantis but then the explanation of
the cloning tech gets harder. Not bad in broad terms though.

(greg)
don't you play the queen of diamonds boy,
she'll beat you if she's able...
Message no. 3
From: James Paul Morgan <jpmorgan@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slightly Diffn't Bug thread (and new .sig file)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:36:41 -0600
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Jim Riegel wrote:

> Since she's a
> mage she can astral assense and yup...it's her mom's aura all right. Am
> waiting to see how things go before I plan too much farther into
> it....thoughts, flames, comments?
>

The only problem is that your aura is also based on who you are, not just
the flesh. The aura of the "mother" would have certain similarities to
the PC's mother, but would also be radically different. Just like two
twins have totally different auras, but you could see some similarities,
especially if they were raised around one another.

Now, if the queen could mask her aura in the host (I'm not sure if they
all can), then that would mean the PC would see a being who looks exactly
like a younger version of their mother and who has certain similarities in
the aura. I'd say the bug couldn't copy the aurua of the mother since she
had never seen this aura.

On the other hand, if the bugs could get a hold of some DNA from a
studdied aura.... *shudder*


The bug also wouldn't have access to the host memories like they do in
normal hosts. This would mean the conversations would not work quite
right.




As a suggestion on how to make your idea work: Have the bug masking its
aura and have the player see that it is a masked aura, as if it were an
initiate covering up. This could let the player choose that the character
believes it is the mother and the differences are time and the masking.
This all depends on how powerful an initiate the character is, of course.



See ya around the Mulberry bush.

--James

:)
Message no. 4
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Slightly Diffn't Bug thread (and new .sig file)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:38:08 -0700
---Jim Riegel wrote:
>
> OK...this is my thought. In Awakenings they make a comment
about Crash
> Cart being related to the Insect Spirits....I stopped to think
about what
> the insects could want with taking over an organization like that
when they
> had the much more efficient UB.

Read the S/R novel 2XS... it's all in there.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 5
From: Jim Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slightly Diffn't Bug thread (and new .sig file)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:30:27 -0300
OK...GOTTA INSERT A SPOILER SPACE FOR THIS I THINK....Burning Bright,
Chicago and Double Exposure are covered here....
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1

>One thing that is a problem is the "armies of queens" things. Hive based
>insects are really, really territorial. The only use for this would be to
>saturate a LARGE area with hives (Queens are not particularly fond of
>competition) if this were to be done then what you would get are a great
>number of tiny "start-up" hives that had not had time to grow before
>discovery (quantity of strangeness tips people off).
OK...Group hives are doable IMHO because while they insects have certain
tendencies by instinct/nature, they had a MAJOR shake up happen. Double
Exposure caused the systematic hunting/killing of huge numbers of bugs and
prompted the bug city breakout...The bugs in Chicago tend to be a little
less territorial as they all came from one central place...granted, they did
spread out...what I'm thinking here would be starter queens to replenish the
hundreds of sites toasted by the governments.


>Two problems: Queens are damn near sessile for most flavors of hive based
>insects. I think a giant termite queen shlubbing along would attact
>attention mother or not.
You got me on this part of the deal.... I had forgotten that Queens couldn't
have 'good merges'. On a side note, I now consider good merges to be the
standard tactic of all insect spirits...the players already have contacts
who are bugs in fleshform....and they honestly have no clue.

>Also, the aura is not tied solely to the physical form. If this were so
than astral projection would be
>meaningless and impossible. What the aura would look like is a corrupted
>and inhuman aura which MIGHT subtly resemble the aura of her mother.
>The whole thing might work for Wasp or Mantis but then the explanation of
>the cloning tech gets harder. Not bad in broad terms though.

Hrmm....as I say the cloning tech is doable with that large of a cooperative
think tank. A gestalt of minds working together is more than the sum of the
parts.
As far as the aura goes....masking. LOTS of masking. And with the power of
the queen it's awfully powerful masking... hrmmm.... I suppose I could try
tying in the need for mage DNA to do the rapid growth cloning....or even
just make it a bizarre coincidence that her mom's DNA was used in an area
the player is active in...
Course it's all a bit moot....until I can get some gamers in the DC region
(hint, hint) I'm up the creek until either my friends hit a term break or
drop out of Univ. *sigh*

> (greg)


.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-
._

Warning: Be on the look out for a high speed free spirit. It's preferred
form is a small Native American boy.
Known Aliases: Little Running Joke

Welcome to the Shadows of Washington, DCLXVI Chummer! We got more
demoncrats
and Sinators than you can shake a stun baton at. --Anonymous

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y++++*
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Message no. 6
From: Jim Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Slightly Diffn't Bug thread (and new .sig file)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:34:05 -0300
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 03:43
Subject: Re: Slightly Diffn't Bug thread (and new .sig file)


>
>Read the S/R novel 2XS... it's all in there.
>
Hrmm...well..looks like it's time to hit the stores again....*shrug*
Thanks.

>===
> @>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>


.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-._.-^-
._

Warning: Be on the look out for a high speed free spirit. It's preferred
form is a small Native American boy.
Known Aliases: Little Running Joke

Welcome to the Shadows of Washington, DCLXVI Chummer! We got more
demoncrats
and Sinators than you can shake a stun baton at. --Anonymous

----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK -----
version:3.1
GAT d@ S++:+ a-- c++++(++$) US>++ P+ L E- W+(--) N+ o-- K- w(--) O- M-- V
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t(+) 5+++ X+ R++ tv+ b+++ DI++++ D+ G+ e>++ h---- r+++
y++++*
------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------

---
Message no. 7
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Slightly Diffn't Bug thread (and new .sig file)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:21:00 GMT
on 16.09.97 riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU wrote:

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

F
O
R

2
X
S


[Cutting!!]
[You said, that the bugs took over crash cart, so they could clone
magicians for their queens]

Well, in 2XS (the book with the CC-stuff in it), they say, that the bugs
took over CC to be able to implant 2XS-chips (a mondo heavy version of
BTL) into important people. If the folk survived the chip (which isn't
that likely) they would be suiteable for being hosts. That's about it.
(Though your version is much more EVIL)



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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