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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: [Slightly OT] The death of gaming, and a rant
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:09:17 -0500
At 02:04 PM 2/8/97 -0500, MC23 babbled:
>The Bookworm wrote,
>> so whoes next for the bankrupsy courts?
>
> Their not a game company but Marvel Comics has filed chapter 11 to
>reorganize and generate cash to pull themselves out of a crunch. This is
>an increasing trend in general and something I hope will end soon. I
>don't think the American economy is in great shape right now. Now is this
>a dip or a dive?
>
Marvel and TSR have both driven themselves out of business, really...

Marvel in particular is a major Pet Peeve of mine... I used to love their
comics, in the mid to late 80's, but they got WAY too commercial... Every
comic character that was even remotely popular made guest appearences in
every book, they suddenly decided that every character had to be killed,
cloned, resurected, and given a new costume (Not necessarily in that order).

They went from making 30 titles a month to 100+ in just over 5 years...

They killed the market, and killed most of the comics taht I liked to read.
After Spidey satrted going grim and gritty, I stopped collecting...

With TSR, they've just over marketed themselves, and managed to upset the
gamers... Now it's a trend for gamers to TSR bash... granted, they've
given gamers reason to do it, but....

Too many senseless books, too many marketing ploys taht haven't worked
(Like their CD play along adventures), too many worlds taht are only
slightly successful (Dark Sun, Ravenloft (Now, these aren't bad worlds, but
they really weren't popular enough to warrent the mass products that got
produced for them)), etc. etc.

Also, they keep producing products LONG after the they're dead... I know
no one that plays dragon dice or the Spellfire CCG, yet they STILL make
expansions for them.

And now they're screwing around with my favorite AD&D world, Dragonlance.
For some reason they think their old standby game system isn't good enough,
so they're going with a "new" diceless system, despite the fact no truly
diceless game systems have ever proven popular, or survived to any real
extent.

Ah well... FASA seems to be better connected to it's customers (After all,
we have Mike AND Steve on the list, and Tom Dowd shows up on teh cyberpunk
newsgroups), so hopefully they won't make the same mistakes that others
have been.

Don't overcommercialize! I can't stress that enough... Once something
becomes popular, don't push it into the ground and force it on us... I
don't think FASA will, after all, Mike's doing his best to squash the
EI's... That right there could have been (and still could be) WAY
overcommercialized... After all, even though the majority of the list
seems to not like 'em, there's still plenty of gamers out tehre who do. In
fact, I knew a guy once who wanted to play one...

Ok, I'm done... Rant over...

Bull-the-hoping-FASA-doesn't-screw-up-Ork-Decker
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"
Message no. 2
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: [Slightly OT] The death of gaming, and a rant
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 23:46:17 +0000
> From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
> Subject: [Slightly OT] The death of gaming, and a rant

> > Their not a game company but Marvel Comics has filed chapter 11 to
> >reorganize and generate cash to pull themselves out of a crunch. This is

Tried to avoid this, but.....this is not why Marvel filed chapter 11,
it was a power play started by the main stockholder. The logistics
of it are interesting for anyone who found Corporate Shadowfiles
usefull. This is a real life example of some of the things
disscussed in CS.

> Also, they keep producing products LONG after the they're dead... I know
> no one that plays dragon dice or the Spellfire CCG, yet they STILL make
> expansions for them.

Haven't been to a convention, have you? I was amazed by the number
of people with a few thousand dice for this game.

> And now they're screwing around with my favorite AD&D world, Dragonlance.
> For some reason they think their old standby game system isn't good enough,
> so they're going with a "new" diceless system, despite the fact no truly
> diceless game systems have ever proven popular, or survived to any real
> extent.

This is the contractual obligation product, I believe.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 3
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [Slightly OT] The death of gaming, and a rant
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 00:17:41 -0500
At 11:46 PM 2/8/97 +0000, Droopy babbled:
>> Also, they keep producing products LONG after the they're dead... I know
>> no one that plays dragon dice or the Spellfire CCG, yet they STILL make
>> expansions for them.
>
>Haven't been to a convention, have you? I was amazed by the number
>of people with a few thousand dice for this game.
>
There are some people who play it... And they own a lot of dice...

But considering that of the three hobby shops and six bookstores in the NE
Ohio area that sells Dragon Dice STILL have most of their original basic
set stock, as well as boxes of each expansion that TSR keeps shipping.

I never said that NOONE played DD, but it's not doing the business that it
should for the amount of merchandise that gets produced and shipped...
There's a LOT of DD out there, and it's just sitting...

>> And now they're screwing around with my favorite AD&D world, Dragonlance.
>> For some reason they think their old standby game system isn't good enough,
>> so they're going with a "new" diceless system, despite the fact no
truly
>> diceless game systems have ever proven popular, or survived to any real
>> extent.
>
>This is the contractual obligation product, I believe.
>
eh?

Bull
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"
Message no. 4
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: [Slightly OT] The death of gaming, and a rant
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:39:33 +0000
> From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
> Subject: Re: [Slightly OT] The death of gaming, and a rant

> >> And now they're screwing around with my favorite AD&D world,
Dragonlance.
> >> For some reason they think their old standby game system isn't good enough,
> >> so they're going with a "new" diceless system, despite the fact no
truly
> >> diceless game systems have ever proven popular, or survived to any real
> >> extent.
> >
> >This is the contractual obligation product, I believe.
> >
> eh?

TSR is only producing another Dragonlance product because they have
to, they're under contract with MW&TH to produce so many and the new
product is the last one. Apparently TSR didn't feel up to doing it
and no longer wanted DL associated with AD&D since they were going to
lose it anyway.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 5
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [Slightly OT] The death of gaming, and a rant
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 01:18:09 -0500
At 11:39 PM 2/9/97 +0000, Droopy babbled:
>> >This is the contractual obligation product, I believe.
>> >
>> eh?
>
>TSR is only producing another Dragonlance product because they have
>to, they're under contract with MW&TH to produce so many and the new
>product is the last one. Apparently TSR didn't feel up to doing it
>and no longer wanted DL associated with AD&D since they were going to
>lose it anyway.
>
Ahhh, I see...

Kind of a shame to see TSR do something like that, though, since Weiss and
Hickman made almost as much cash for TSR as Gygax did...

Ah well...

Bull
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"

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