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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wordman)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Tue Feb 6 19:50:04 2001
Something just came to me, and I'm not sure if I read it somewhere or if
this is an original thought. The concept is a house rule to prevent people
from shooting down helicopters with hold-out pistols.

The idea is to use variable staging to do the damage against vehicles with
small arms. Normally, two successes for the attacker stage damage up, and
two successes for the defender stage damage down (effectively). I'm writing
this without any real reference to rules, because it just hit me.

The idea is this:

When staging up damage, rather than every two successes staging a level, the
attacker must get a number of successes equal to the body of the vehicle to
stage up a level. This has the affect of making bigger vehicles harder to
destroy.

In resisting damage, the power of the shot is divided by the body of the
vehicle, rounded up. The result is the number of successes the vehicle needs
to stage down a level of damage. This has the effect of making the power of
the weapon more important than the shooter's skill.

Or something.

Wordman
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Tue Feb 6 20:05:00 2001
In a message dated 2/6/01 4:52:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wordman@*******.com writes:

> The idea is to use variable staging to do the damage against vehicles with
> small arms.

Hrm...Interesting idea (speaking as a player that's lost a character's car or
2 to one or 2 shots from a HP pistol before.) Rest in Peace brand new
WestWind.:-(

What would define small arms fire?

Cash
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Shane Hyde)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Tue Feb 6 20:25:01 2001
>Hrm...Interesting idea (speaking as a player that's lost a character's car or
2 to one or 2 shots from a HP pistol before.) Rest in Peace brand new
WestWind.:-(

>What would define small arms fire?

Anything that doesn't have 'Cannon' in the name?

Shane
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Tue Feb 6 23:05:01 2001
> Something just came to me, and I'm not sure if I read it somewhere
or if this is an original thought. The concept is a house rule to
prevent people from shooting down helicopters with hold-out pistols.

> When staging up damage, rather than every two successes staging a
level, the attacker must get a number of successes equal to the body
of the vehicle to stage up a level. This has the affect of making
bigger vehicles harder to destroy.

I've seen (on this list) home rules describing something like this
with critters... bigger critters need more successes to stage.
Sounds similar.

(And when did I start saying 'home rules' instead of 'house rules?')

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mark Imbriaco)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Wed Feb 7 00:25:02 2001
On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Wordman wrote:

> Something just came to me, and I'm not sure if I read it somewhere or if
> this is an original thought. The concept is a house rule to prevent people
> from shooting down helicopters with hold-out pistols.
>
> The idea is to use variable staging to do the damage against vehicles with
> small arms. Normally, two successes for the attacker stage damage up, and
> two successes for the defender stage damage down (effectively). I'm writing
> this without any real reference to rules, because it just hit me.

Uh, that's SR1. :-)

-Mark

--
"The big question is whether the planet will disappear in the twinkling of
an eye. It is astonishingly unlikely that there is any risk - but I could
not prove it." - John Nelson
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Alfredo B Alves)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Wed Feb 7 01:10:01 2001
On Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:01:34 EST GuayII@***.com writes:
<Snip>
> What would define small arms fire?

A lit dwarf?

seriously, the best definition would probably be anythin that:
1) doesn't have to be vehicle mounted (some trolls should be considered
vehicles ...); and
2) is not designated as anti-vehicle.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Xerxes)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Wed Feb 7 12:15:02 2001
Wordman wrote:
>
> Something just came to me, and I'm not sure if I read it somewhere or if
> this is an original thought. The concept is a house rule to prevent people
> from shooting down helicopters with hold-out pistols.
>
> The idea is to use variable staging to do the damage against vehicles with
> small arms. Normally, two successes for the attacker stage damage up, and
> two successes for the defender stage damage down (effectively). I'm writing
> this without any real reference to rules, because it just hit me.
>
> The idea is this:
>
> When staging up damage, rather than every two successes staging a level, the
> attacker must get a number of successes equal to the body of the vehicle to
> stage up a level. This has the affect of making bigger vehicles harder to
> destroy.
>
> In resisting damage, the power of the shot is divided by the body of the
> vehicle, rounded up. The result is the number of successes the vehicle needs
> to stage down a level of damage. This has the effect of making the power of
> the weapon more important than the shooter's skill.
>
> Or something.
>
> Wordman

IIRC vehicle armor counts double against anything but launch weapons and
cannons.
This basically means that you can empty your Ingram Valiant at a car
with 4
armor but won't do anyhing more than produce sparks. (It's hardened too)
Also the damage is automatically lowered one level, meaning it will be
very
hard to shoot down a helicopter with a 4L hold out pistol. Then
considering
there are airborne vehicles with an armor rating of 18, and your NPC's
should
be pretty safe in their helicopters.

Arie
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Wed Feb 7 14:10:01 2001
According to Xerxes, on Wed, 07 Feb 2001 the word on the street was...

> IIRC vehicle armor counts double against anything but launch weapons and
> cannons.

The attack's Power Level is halved, not the armor doubled. This is _nearly_
the same thing, but can cause some small differences due to rounding -- a
7S LMG will bounce off 3 points of armor when the Power is halved, but not
when the armor is doubled, for example.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Small arms vs. vehicles
Date: Wed Feb 7 17:35:04 2001
>> The idea is to use variable staging to do the damage against vehicles
with
>> small arms. Normally, two successes for the attacker stage damage up, and
>> two successes for the defender stage damage down (effectively). I'm
writing
>> this without any real reference to rules, because it just hit me.
>
>Uh, that's SR1. :-)
>
>-Mark

No, that's the OPPOSITE of SR1. SR1 had it so that "powerful" weapons
required more successes to stafe down- and up! IMO, that makes little
sense, but making it so that tought TARGETS require more succeseses to stage
damge up on (but still stage it down as normal) makes a good bit of sense,
IMO.
I know I;ve argued for it in the past, don't know if it was really my idea,
though.

-Seb

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