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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Smartgun and scope
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:47:45 -0500
Another question. WOuld it be possible to combine the functions of a
smart gun and a scope into something like a smart scope? Put a laser
range finder on the scope so it adjust for range, calabrate it through
sighting in at different distances, use another laser to test for the
effects of cross winds...etc?
Message no. 2
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 08:11:28 -0500
Midn Daniel said:

>
>
>Another question. WOuld it be possible to combine the functions of a
>smart gun and a scope into something like a smart scope? Put a laser
>range finder on the scope so it adjust for range, calabrate it through
>sighting in at different distances, use another laser to test for the
>effects of cross winds...etc?

A rangefinger can be fitted in conjunction with the smartlink, but
a laser sight would be redundant as the smartlink already has it's own
tracking system. And [as far as I know:-?] it's not possible to test for
cross winds using a laser.
The smartlink projects to the bearer the point the weapon is
focused upon at the time, allowing him [in the case of the cybernetic
implant] total control over when, and where his gun fires [the 'cookie
cutter' effect, like in the movie 'TOP SECRET', at the Potatoe Farm,
where the resistance fighter cuts down all the german soldiers, and
doesn't hit any of his own men [kinda of an extreme example, but...]
WHile this is good for the companions of a trigger happy samurai,
it's NOT 100% perfect, and FRIENDLY fire [don't you just love that
term;-] does occur.
You could argue that a laser would pinpoint down the point of focus
of the smartlink system, enhancing it's aim, but you should be careful
such a tech creation doesn't upset the balance of your game. It would
probably be bulkier than the current smartlink mods for guns now.
Message no. 3
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:47:50 -0600
On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:

> Another question. WOuld it be possible to combine the functions of a
> smart gun and a scope into something like a smart scope? Put a laser
> range finder on the scope so it adjust for range, calabrate it through
> sighting in at different distances, use another laser to test for the
> effects of cross winds...etc?
>
Uh, lasers are not affected by wind. Not that is, by more than a
wavelength or so...?
Message no. 4
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:07:42 -0500
>Brian Johnson wrote:
>Uh, lasers are not affected by wind. Not that is, by more than a
>wavelength or so...?


Light isn't affected by ANY wind. It can be distorted, or refracted by
mist, water particles in the air , pollution , passage thru water,etc.,
or a gravitational field strong enough to compete with a STAR! [you do
NOT want to be in the area if that's the case :-].

Kohl [still working on that Ph.D. at M.I.T.& M.] the ork gunslinger
Message no. 5
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:09:38 -0500
> On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
>
> > Another question. WOuld it be possible to combine the functions of a
> > smart gun and a scope into something like a smart scope? Put a laser
> > range finder on the scope so it adjust for range, calabrate it through
> > sighting in at different distances, use another laser to test for the
> > effects of cross winds...etc?
> >
> Uh, lasers are not affected by wind. Not that is, by more than a
> wavelength or so...?

To tell the truth, I'm not exactly sure how it works... I do know that
the were doing it at Oregon Graduate Institute a couple years ago.
Message no. 6
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:17:18 EST
On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:07:42 -0500 "Fisher, Victor"
<Victor-Fisher@******.COM> writes:
>>Brian Johnson wrote:
>>Uh, lasers are not affected by wind. Not that is, by more than a
>>wavelength or so...?
>
>
>Light isn't affected by ANY wind. It can be distorted, or refracted by
>mist, water particles in the air , pollution , passage thru
>water,etc.,
>or a gravitational field strong enough to compete with a STAR! [you do
>NOT want to be in the area if that's the case :-].
>

Actually, that's not entirely true. The gravitational field of the earth
bends light, it's just a barely perceptible distortion...Discover had
something on this a while back, I just don't remember when. It did say
that a laser, shined across a room, bent a very small amount. As for
whether or not a wind can distort light, I would bet it can, just not
enough to be noticeable:)



>Kohl [still working on that Ph.D. at M.I.T.& M.] the ork gunslinger
>

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 7
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 01:17:19 +0000
In message <Pine.GSO.3.95.970319074451.29689B-100000@*****>, Midn Daniel
O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL> writes
>Another question. WOuld it be possible to combine the functions of a
>smart gun and a scope into something like a smart scope? Put a laser
>range finder on the scope so it adjust for range, calabrate it through
>sighting in at different distances, use another laser to test for the
>effects of cross winds...etc?

A laser won't give you crosswind: you need a dedicated sensor for that.
Putting an anemometer on the gun probably spoils its concealability :)

For a smartgun II at long range, crosswind probably remains one of the
bigger variables for the shooter to figure out. Tanks have environmental
sensors (usually mounted at the back of the turret and typically on a
short mast) to measure temperature, atmospheric pressure, humidity and
crucially, crosswind: don't see an easy way to put something similar on
a rifle.

But for a somewhat bulky object - say something the size of two VHS
video tapes - I'd be willing to have that provide the same effects as a
Smartlink II at Long and Extreme range, but only a -1 at Medium range
and no benefit at Short (off the top of my head). Not hard to put gyros
in to measure target angular rate, use a laser for range, and adjust
point of aim accordingly.

Thinking about it, I might say it takes a Simple Action to set up on a
chosen target or to change targets (got to acquire and lase for range)
compared to a Free Action for the cybered version.

I'd also allow a sustained fire bonus on Extreme-range shooting,
though... call it -1 for shots after the first at the same general area
- as you adjust your strikes onto target (you see your guesstimate of
the wind/range/whatever was wrong, so you correct it and fire again).

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 8
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:55:56 +0000
|
|On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 19:07:42 -0500 "Fisher, Victor"
|<Victor-Fisher@******.COM> writes:
|>>Brian Johnson wrote:
|>>Uh, lasers are not affected by wind. Not that is, by more than a
|>>wavelength or so...?
|>
|>
|>Light isn't affected by ANY wind. It can be distorted, or refracted by
|>mist, water particles in the air , pollution , passage thru
|>water,etc.,

And passage through air-pockets and pressure variations.
(And pressure variations CAUSE wind....)

|>or a gravitational field strong enough to compete with a STAR! [you do
|>NOT want to be in the area if that's the case :-].

Light is bent by ANY gravitational pull.
It's just that the amount of "bendage" is immesurable on anything smaller
than a planet (or large asteroid)....

>>> HEY... It's my turn to invent a new word.... <<<
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 09:44:13 -0500
Spike said:
>And passage through air-pockets and pressure variations.
>(And pressure variations CAUSE wind....)

Wind is an EFFECT caused by pressure variations, and not the reason
for the light refraction. Any medium has the ability to refract light
somewhat, but in the case of the atmosphere on earth, it's almost
completely negligible. I don't believe you could use this information to
enhance the accuracy of a smartlink [although you could use it to test
the refractive index of the medium the laser [light] was passing thru.
Hey, any physics majors out there? I'm a little rusty.
Message no. 10
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:52:35 GMT
"Fisher, Victor" writes
>
> Wind is an EFFECT caused by pressure variations, and not the reason
> for the light refraction. Any medium has the ability to refract light
> somewhat, but in the case of the atmosphere on earth, it's almost
> completely negligible.
only most of the time, come mirrages. Get enough temperature gradient
and its not! this is not likely to come up in a SR game mind.

Mark
Message no. 11
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 15:00:07 +0000
|
|Spike said:
|>And passage through air-pockets and pressure variations.
|>(And pressure variations CAUSE wind....)
|
| Wind is an EFFECT caused by pressure variations, and not the reason
|for the light refraction. Any medium has the ability to refract light
|somewhat, but in the case of the atmosphere on earth, it's almost
|completely negligible. I don't believe you could use this information to
|enhance the accuracy of a smartlink [although you could use it to test
|the refractive index of the medium the laser [light] was passing thru.
| Hey, any physics majors out there? I'm a little rusty.
|

Well..... It might not affect light, but it can have some VERY interesting
and cock-uping effects on radio....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun and scope
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 11:13:34 -0700
> | Wind is an EFFECT caused by pressure variations, and not the reason
> |for the light refraction. Any medium has the ability to refract light
> |somewhat, but in the case of the atmosphere on earth, it's almost
> |completely negligible. I don't believe you could use this information to
> |enhance the accuracy of a smartlink [although you could use it to test
> |the refractive index of the medium the laser [light] was passing thru.
> | Hey, any physics majors out there? I'm a little rusty.
> |
>
> Well..... It might not affect light, but it can have some VERY
interesting
> and cock-uping effects on radio....

Basically IIRC refraction will not effect a laser because it is a focused
beam. Radio waves are just cast out into the atmosphere to travel as far
as possible. To refaact a laser you would have to have a comparable prism
of some sort. Again it's been awhile since my physics classes but I am
pretty sure that's how it works.

-Caric

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
-Albert Einstein

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