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Message no. 1
From: Michael Coleman <mscoleman@********.NET>
Subject: Smartgun Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:36:37 -0500
I have noticed a good deal of discussion on the Smartgun link. And I
thought I would throw out a couple comments. The first is the targeting
reticule. Is it targeting in a straight line from the end of the barrel or
is the link actually calculating the ballistic arc of the bullet. The
difference is a straight line is OK for close work but at greater ranges the
bullet will hit high or low of the targeting point. I personally think the
calculates the ballistic arc. The software knows what gun is being fired
and what kind of bullet. The only problem with this is you would need some
kind of rangefinder built into the gun. The other comment is does anyone
allow their players to lock their guns with the smartlink. That is the only
person that can fire the weapon is the person with the correct smartgun link
induction pad. One of the books (I dont remember which one) talked about
using biometrics for guns but it was a separate system. I think this could
easily be done with the smartlink. It should be a standard feature. Well
thats my two cents.

Mike
Message no. 2
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark.imbriaco@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:36:18 -0400
On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Michael Coleman wrote:

> I have noticed a good deal of discussion on the Smartgun link. And I
> thought I would throw out a couple comments. The first is the targeting
> reticule. Is it targeting in a straight line from the end of the barrel or
> is the link actually calculating the ballistic arc of the bullet. The
> difference is a straight line is OK for close work but at greater ranges the
> bullet will hit high or low of the targeting point. I personally think the
> calculates the ballistic arc. The software knows what gun is being fired
> and what kind of bullet. The only problem with this is you would need some

Does it also account for windage and other factors that are going to
impact the flight of the bullet. I'm not sure that it would be of value
for it to do any kind of ballistic calculations since if the range was
sufficiently long for bullet drop to have a measurable effect, the other
factors are going to botch up the shot just as much. Perhaps it works
like a scope does, in that you can mentally "adjust" the reticle to
account for range to allow for bullet drop and windage.

-Mark
Message no. 3
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:14:39 -0400
On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Michael Coleman wrote:

->I have noticed a good deal of discussion on the Smartgun link. And I
->thought I would throw out a couple comments. The first is the targeting
->reticule. Is it targeting in a straight line from the end of the barrel or
->is the link actually calculating the ballistic arc of the bullet. The
->difference is a straight line is OK for close work but at greater ranges the
->bullet will hit high or low of the targeting point. I personally think the
->calculates the ballistic arc. The software knows what gun is being fired
->and what kind of bullet.

This wouldn't be a normal Smartgun link. What this would be is a
Smartgun Link II, as it would be calculating firing arcs more precisely.
A normal smartgun link won't tie in well with a rangefinder (as it doesn't
state anything about being able to, while the SGLII does) so wound't know
what the real range is. The operator would have to figure the range and
the gun would instinctively adjust the firing arc according to the
operator's belief as to where the target is. This explains why a SGL
still has increased TNs at longer ranges, but still gets the -2 bonus.

->The only problem with this is you would need some
->kind of rangefinder built into the gun. The other comment is does anyone
->allow their players to lock their guns with the smartlink. That is the only
->person that can fire the weapon is the person with the correct smartgun link
->induction pad. One of the books (I dont remember which one) talked about
->using biometrics for guns but it was a separate system. I think this could
->easily be done with the smartlink. It should be a standard feature. Well
->thats my two cents.

<pockets 2 cents> As far as locking a weapon, you could, I guess,
turn the safety on through a smartgun link, but as far as actually
"locking the weapon" I'd require a biometric unit. I guess that's just
the EvilGM in me.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 4
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:10:06 -0400
Michael Coleman didst sayeth:

>I have noticed a good deal of discussion on the Smartgun link. And I
>thought I would throw out a couple comments. The first is the targeting
>reticule. Is it targeting in a straight line from the end of the barrel or
>is the link actually calculating the ballistic arc of the bullet. The
>difference is a straight line is OK for close work but at greater ranges
the
>bullet will hit high or low of the targeting point. I personally think the
>calculates the ballistic arc. The software knows what gun is being fired
>and what kind of bullet. The only problem with this is you would need some
>kind of rangefinder built into the gun. The other comment is does anyone
>allow their players to lock their guns with the smartlink. That is the
only
>person that can fire the weapon is the person with the correct smartgun
link
>induction pad. One of the books (I dont remember which one) talked about
>using biometrics for guns but it was a separate system. I think this could
>easily be done with the smartlink. It should be a standard feature. Well
>thats my two cents.


I'm pretty sure it was one of the Plastic Warriors things that had the
biometric safety, though it's a pretty common item.

And now, for my take on smartlinks...

I've never attributed any sort of autonomy to them. I see it purely as an
aiming device, aside from the direct neural interface handling fire cycles,
ejecting spent magazines,and fiddling with the choke. I would guess that the
basic smart goggles simply projects a point where an extended centerline of
the barrel would intersect a solid object. The cyber version would probably
integrate the eyes' focus. This would give it a degree of ranging
information which allows for slightly greater accuracy. Then comes the
Smartlink 2, which gets it's ranging data from a mechanical rangefinder,
giving it increased accuracy.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 5
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:39:00 PDT
>
>> I have noticed a good deal of discussion on the Smartgun link. And I
>> thought I would throw out a couple comments. The first is the
targeting
>> reticule. Is it targeting in a straight line from the end of the
barrel or
>> is the link actually calculating the ballistic arc of the bullet.
The
>> difference is a straight line is OK for close work but at greater
ranges the
>> bullet will hit high or low of the targeting point. I personally
think the
>> calculates the ballistic arc. The software knows what gun is being
fired
>> and what kind of bullet. The only problem with this is you would
need some
>
>Does it also account for windage and other factors that are going to
>impact the flight of the bullet. I'm not sure that it would be of
value
>for it to do any kind of ballistic calculations since if the range was
>sufficiently long for bullet drop to have a measurable effect, the
other
>factors are going to botch up the shot just as much. Perhaps it works
>like a scope does, in that you can mentally "adjust" the reticle to
>account for range to allow for bullet drop and windage.
>
>-Mark
>
No it doesnt do any of these functuions by itself, in
conjunction with a rangefinder the smartlink 2 can calculate grenade
arcs, ballistic arcs (big guns) and has a additional modifier for long
range....this is because it adjusts and calculates the arc of the bullet
(see fields of fire combat section). The Smartlink does not do any other
of the functions suggested, well in the canon anyway. Theoretically the
Tactical computer does all the tasks you could care to mention and more,
automatiacaly as well, but that what you get for 3 points of essence.
The smartlink is basically a laser pointer hooked right into the
visual cortex of your brain, thats it no computing or other functions.
Yes it lets you change clips eject clips chanmge fire mode, it is a link
between the gun and you, it lets you tell the gun these things, the
memory for these tasks is in the smartware of the GUN.
well that was my 2 nuyen.
MRhaPPYTHEsmILEYMan

*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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Message no. 6
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:55:25 PDT
The other comment is does anyone
>allow their players to lock their guns with the smartlink. That is the
only
>person that can fire the weapon is the person with the correct smartgun
link
>induction pad. One of the books (I dont remember which one) talked
about
>using biometrics for guns but it was a separate system. I think this
could
>easily be done with the smartlink. It should be a standard feature.
Well
>thats my two cents.
>
>Mike
>
thanks for the money mike....well i would partially agree, IMO
they could lock the smartlink function off and this could come standard
(for the requisite nuyen of course -ARES IN ALL FORMS) but to lock up
the gun and make it unfireable there only remains the biometrics, you
can still pull the trigger on the smartlink gun, hell to fire it even
with a smartlink you need to have that little action down pat.....finger
goes back #BAM#. So only the smartlink feature.
IS it just me or a players trying to get around having to buy things
like tactical computers and biometric safetied personalised guns?
smartlinks are dollar wares, they do a good job at their LIMITED task,
and are worth their cred ten times over, we shouldnt push it and try and
make it twenty times over.
its up to about 4 nuyen by now...nearly a stuffer stick.
MRhaPPYTHESmiLEYMan

*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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Message no. 7
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:47:06 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:10 PM 9/11/98 -0400, Duncan wrote:
>I'm pretty sure it was one of the Plastic Warriors things that had
the
>biometric safety, though it's a pretty common item.

Or if you prefer FASA Cannon, biometric safeties are in the Corporate
Security Handbook, though there isn't much in the way of actual
mechanics for them.

>I would guess that the
>basic smart goggles simply projects a point where an extended
centerline of
>the barrel would intersect a solid object.

So, how does the equipment tell where the solid object is?
If I'm on the floor, pointing my firearm at an upwards angle at
someone standing 1 meter away, the point of intersection would be
lower than it would be if the target were 3 meters away, and I was
holding the firearm at the same angle.

>The cyber version would probably
>integrate the eyes' focus. This would give it a degree of ranging
>information which allows for slightly greater accuracy.

I concur.

>Then comes the
>Smartlink 2, which gets it's ranging data from a mechanical
rangefinder,
>giving it increased accuracy.

I would just like to point out that Smartlink 2 can be integrated with
a rangefinger, but it does not come with one. The rangefinger is a
seperate piece of equipment, and you only get the longer range bonuses
if you have it.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 8
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:54:24 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of Michael Coleman
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 1998 04:37
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Smartgun Link
>
>
> I have noticed a good deal of discussion on the Smartgun link. And I
> thought I would throw out a couple comments. The first is the targeting
> reticule. Is it targeting in a straight line from the end of the barrel or
> is the link actually calculating the ballistic arc of the bullet. The
> difference is a straight line is OK for close work but at greater
> ranges the
> bullet will hit high or low of the targeting point. I personally
> think the
> calculates the ballistic arc. The software knows what gun is being fired
> and what kind of bullet. The only problem with this is you would
> need some
> kind of rangefinder built into the gun.

Naah. You know the initial velocity and muzzle energy (the smartgun read it
from the barcode on the bullet, the external adapter was told it(or however
else you want to have it.)). Ditto the drag numbers. You don't have windage
numbers, unless you've got an odd bit hanging off the gun/your head, but at
SR firefight ranges, windage is not a serious concern. You know what gravity
is. My pocket calculator today can solve the necessary equations given that
in almost real-time.


Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security - Benjamin Franklin
That which does not exist has never been named - Mirumoto Nohito
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Homepage : http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~jhurley1
Message no. 9
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:09:28 -0500
On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:36:37 -0500 Michael Coleman
<mscoleman@********.NET> writes:
<SNIP>
>The other comment is does anyone
>allow their players to lock their guns with the smartlink. That is the
only
>person that can fire the weapon is the person with the correct smartgun
link
>induction pad. One of the books (I dont remember which one) talked
about
>using biometrics for guns but it was a separate system. I think this
could
>easily be done with the smartlink. It should be a standard feature.
Well
>thats my two cents.
>
>Mike

The IBS was in Corporate Security Handbook. If you want a "lock" on your
Smartlink, why not just tack on a Data Encryption module (it's a bit of
stretch) on the gun's smartlink? Want to hack encrypted Smartlinks?
Tack a Decryption module onto your cyber. (both are page 292/293 of SR3)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 10
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 02:51:41 -0400
Paul Gettle didst sayeth:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>At 12:10 PM 9/11/98 -0400, Duncan wrote:
>>I'm pretty sure it was one of the Plastic Warriors things that had
>the
>>biometric safety, though it's a pretty common item.
>
>Or if you prefer FASA Cannon, biometric safeties are in the Corporate
>Security Handbook, though there isn't much in the way of actual
>mechanics for them.


Ok...then that's where I saw it....maybe I ought to track down a copy of
CorpSec to call my own.

>>I would guess that the
>>basic smart goggles simply projects a point where an extended
>centerline of
>>the barrel would intersect a solid object.
>
>So, how does the equipment tell where the solid object is?
>If I'm on the floor, pointing my firearm at an upwards angle at
>someone standing 1 meter away, the point of intersection would be
>lower than it would be if the target were 3 meters away, and I was
>holding the firearm at the same angle.


I'm not really sure. I knew when I wrote it, but I guess I forgot to say
and seeing as it's almost 3am, I don't remember now. Oops. But with
nothing feeding in ranging data of any kind, the smartlink just isn't
possible.

>>The cyber version would probably
>>integrate the eyes' focus. This would give it a degree of ranging
>>information which allows for slightly greater accuracy.
>
>I concur.
>
>>Then comes the
>>Smartlink 2, which gets it's ranging data from a mechanical
>rangefinder,
>>giving it increased accuracy.
>
>I would just like to point out that Smartlink 2 can be integrated with
>a rangefinger, but it does not come with one. The rangefinger is a
>seperate piece of equipment, and you only get the longer range bonuses
>if you have it.


Yes. In the absence of the cybernetic range finder, the smartlink would
rely on the normal optic focus and function just like a level 1 cybernetic
smartgun. Oh, and I have a serious problem with an under-barrel range
finder feeding a Smartgun 2, since it's giving the range to the first object
along a line parallel to the barrel's centerline instead of the range to
whatever the user is looking at.

*shrug*

Hopefully there will be something on smartlinks in the Cannon Companion...

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 11
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:24:15 -0500
>>Or if you prefer FASA Cannon, biometric safeties are in the
>>Corporate Security Handbook....
>
>Ok...then that's where I saw it....maybe I ought to track down a copy of
>CorpSec to call my own.

Good luck. If you find a spare, snag me one, too, please.... <g>

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 12
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:26:06 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 02:51 AM 9/13/98 -0400, Duncan wrote:
>Yes. In the absence of the cybernetic range finder, the smartlink
would
>rely on the normal optic focus and function just like a level 1
cybernetic
>smartgun. Oh, and I have a serious problem with an under-barrel
range
>finder feeding a Smartgun 2, since it's giving the range to the first
object
>along a line parallel to the barrel's centerline instead of the range
to
>whatever the user is looking at.

That's very odd, you know, because I have a problem with the cybereye
rangefinder for exactly the same reason.

- From the way I see it, you'd need to know the range from the gun to
the target, for the Smartlink II to work better, instead of the range
from the shooter's face, to the target. A cybereye rangefinder and a
Smartlink II almost implies that the smartlink hardware has to
calcuate some sort of "world-model" to figure the relationship between
the gun arm and the user's head. (Is the shooter firing from the hip,
or is the pistol arm fully extended?)

Oh, wait... I think I see the situation that's bothering you... You're
thinking of indirect fire arcs, aren't you? Where the gun barrel is
pointed upwards, and not at the target? That would be a problem too,
wouldn't it?


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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 13
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:03:06 -0400
Paul Gettle didst sayeth:


< snip >

>That's very odd, you know, because I have a problem with the cybereye
>rangefinder for exactly the same reason.
>
>- From the way I see it, you'd need to know the range from the gun to
>the target, for the Smartlink II to work better, instead of the range
>from the shooter's face, to the target. A cybereye rangefinder and a
>Smartlink II almost implies that the smartlink hardware has to
>calcuate some sort of "world-model" to figure the relationship between
>the gun arm and the user's head. (Is the shooter firing from the hip,
>or is the pistol arm fully extended?)


Yes. The spacial sensors in the gun find the gun's position relative to the
shooter's eyes, then the smartlink does the trigonometry to find the range
from the gun.

>Oh, wait... I think I see the situation that's bothering you... You're
>thinking of indirect fire arcs, aren't you? Where the gun barrel is
>pointed upwards, and not at the target? That would be a problem too,
>wouldn't it?


I'm thinking of anything involving any degree of projectile drop, be it
longer range rifle shots or launched grenades.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 14
From: Dom T-J <phobic@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Smartgun Link
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:05:47 +1000
>> Oh, and I have a serious problem with an under-barrel range
>>finder feeding a Smartgun 2, since it's giving the range to the >>first
object along a line parallel to the barrel's centerline >>instead of the
range to whatever the user is looking at.
>
>That's very odd, you know, because I have a problem with the >cybereye
rangefinder for exactly the same reason.
>- From the way I see it, you'd need to know the range from the gun >to the
target, for the Smartlink II to work better, instead of the >range from the
shooter's face, to the target. A cybereye rangefinder >and a Smartlink II
almost implies that the smartlink hardware has to
>calcuate some sort of "world-model" to figure the relationship >between
the gun arm and the user's head. (Is the shooter firing from >the hip, or
is the pistol arm fully extended?)
>
>Oh, wait... I think I see the situation that's bothering you... >You're
thinking of indirect fire arcs, aren't you? Where the gun >barrel is
pointed upwards, and not at the target? That would be a >problem too,
wouldn't it?

IMO it's not a problem if it gives the range to whatever the gun's pointed
at rather than what the user's looking at... the point of smartlink
hardware is that it drops the targeting pip on what the gun is pointed at,
so if you're staring intently at your next target and the dot isn't on
them, you're going to know that you're not getting the correct range to
them anyway. By the same token, it's not going to matter if your
rangefinder's in your eye, as long as the targeting dot from the gun is
on whatever you're looking at. Firing from the hip/firing with arm
extended... well... how much difference is less than a metre's variation
going to make? The smartlink operates 'straight line' anyway, so you won't
accidentally fire *past* your target in any case.
See my other posts on this topic... I don't think a 'world model' proves
necessary because I think the smartlink functions by matching what the gun
'sees' to what you see and placing the dot on the closest match. It's the
simplest system and makes the most sense, IMO. (Incidentally, a friend of
mine who doesn't play SR asked me what would happen if you had your gun
pointed at e.g. a brick wall where there was very little definition for the
smartlink to match up. After some thought I realised that at the
resolution that the eye can achieve and with the speeds SR computers are
capable of, a blank concrete wall is going to have enough variation for the
smartlink to find the closest matching area. But anyway.)
This system means there's no need for motion tracking sensors in the gun,
no need for horrendously complex 'world modelling' software. Just a simple
routine that compares the image fed from the gun with the image you can see
maybe once every 25/second (I say 25/second because that's approximately
the speed that the eye updates the information it's receiving to the brain).
And an indirect fire arc... well, if your rangefinder's mounted on your
gun barrel, point it at your target for a split second as you raise it to
fire. There you go, range data.

Later-

Phobic
"He who fears nothing save fear itself. And trolls with clubs."

Further Reading

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