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Message no. 1
From: Scott Peterson <peterson_scott@*******.COM>
Subject: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:21:47 PDT
Ok good to be back been a long time since i was here. Couple of
questions:

1. Does an encephalon allow the user to run two smartlinks with out any
modifiers? Read both descriptions and consider the question.

2. Ok a big bad troll comes a runing in to a melee fight. He has
unarmed-cyber implant weapons-claws at 4/6/8, two weapon combat 6, ambi
at 6(fields of fire rules), combat pool of 8 and reach of one. When he
attacks in melee how many dice does he use? Whats the most he could
use?

3. Using a ares viper sliver gun, how many bursts does a user get in
one combat phase? What is the recoil mods(no recoil comp on the gun)
and when does the recoil penalties occurr?

4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
most he can use?

5. Mage gose up against a trio of gun toting corp sec guards. Cast
acid bomb. What would be the effect of it on their weapons, and
equipment?

6. Would acid stream (spell) defeat a maglock? Wide open question i
know but want to see what is said.

Enough now. Arnt you glad im back!

Edge



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: NightLife <habenir@*****.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:16:02 -0400
At 12:21 PM 4/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Ok good to be back been a long time since i was here. Couple of
>questions:
>
>1. Does an encephalon allow the user to run two smartlinks with out any
>modifiers? Read both descriptions and consider the question.

Nope. One brain equals one smartlink at a time.

>2. Ok a big bad troll comes a runing in to a melee fight. He has
>unarmed-cyber implant weapons-claws at 4/6/8, two weapon combat 6, ambi
>at 6(fields of fire rules), combat pool of 8 and reach of one. When he
>attacks in melee how many dice does he use? Whats the most he could
>use?

8 plus any combat pool he want to through in. In therot he could use all of
his dice and roll 16 dice.

>3. Using a ares viper sliver gun, how many bursts does a user get in
>one combat phase? What is the recoil mods(no recoil comp on the gun)
>and when does the recoil penalties occurr?

Two bursts thats it. I'll let somebody else look up the recoil moddies.

>4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
>not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
>most he can use?

1 plus any dice equal to the force of the spell whicj in this case in only
+1 so Two dice tops.

>5. Mage gose up against a trio of gun toting corp sec guards. Cast
>acid bomb. What would be the effect of it on their weapons, and
>equipment?

That's up top the Gm and the amount of success he gets and how hady he
decides the weapons are.

>6. Would acid stream (spell) defeat a maglock? Wide open question i
>know but want to see what is said.

Depends again on the gm.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

"I am telling you nothing - merely asking you to remember that death come in
many shades. Some are harsh and infinitely painful to look upon; others can
be
as peaceful and beautiful as the setting sun. I am an artist, and many colors
lie on upon my palette. Let me paint him a rainbow, and give you the means to
decide where it ends."

Erik from the book Phantom.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 3
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:02:50 -0300
Scott Peterson escreveu:
>
> Ok good to be back been a long time since i was here. Couple of
> questions:
>
> 1. Does an encephalon allow the user to run two smartlinks with out any
> modifiers? Read both descriptions and consider the question.

I consider a smartlink to be installed in both arms.


> 3. Using a ares viper sliver gun, how many bursts does a user get in
> one combat phase? What is the recoil mods(no recoil comp on the gun)
> and when does the recoil penalties occurr?

One per Complex Action per gun, I think. Normal mods for each gun
separately.


> 5. Mage gose up against a trio of gun toting corp sec guards. Cast
> acid bomb. What would be the effect of it on their weapons, and
> equipment?

Probably they'd melt, but the guards ALSO would melt :).

> 6. Would acid stream (spell) defeat a maglock? Wide open question i
> know but want to see what is said.

Depends on the lock's program (i.e. your mood :) ) It could stay shut
once the
input device is destroyed, or it could open...
Message no. 4
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:49:15 -0500
At 12:21 PM 98-04-26 -0700, you wrote:
>Ok good to be back been a long time since i was here. Couple of
>questions:
>
>1. Does an encephalon allow the user to run two smartlinks with out any
>modifiers? Read both descriptions and consider the question.

Ouch that's scarry . I'd say yes but if I remember correctly no matter
what (even if you have ambi as a skill or edge) you still get +2 to all
target nums for using two weapons (that particular rule never did make much
sence).
>
>2. Ok a big bad troll comes a runing in to a melee fight. He has
>unarmed-cyber implant weapons-claws at 4/6/8, two weapon combat 6, ambi
>at 6(fields of fire rules), combat pool of 8 and reach of one. When he
>attacks in melee how many dice does he use? Whats the most he could
>use?

God who knows.
>
>3. Using a ares viper sliver gun, how many bursts does a user get in
>one combat phase? What is the recoil mods(no recoil comp on the gun)
>and when does the recoil penalties occurr?

Two. All penatlies apply same as other guns. Make your life easy get a
squirt the cops and corps are sure as hell going to remember anyone who
splatters sec guards with a slivergun (or bounces ammo of the goons armor).
>
>4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
>not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
>most he can use?

One the max he can roll is 7 assuming a magic score of 6.
>
>5. Mage gose up against a trio of gun toting corp sec guards. Cast
>acid bomb. What would be the effect of it on their weapons, and
>equipment?

Yes read the grimore discription of an acid elemental effect. For lower
amount of damage I'd say maybe but it'd take awhile.
>
>6. Would acid stream (spell) defeat a maglock? Wide open question i
>know but want to see what is said.

Depends how good the maglock is. Of hand I'd say acid stream dosn't give
you enough controll to eat away only the bolt (you could turn the reader
mechanism to sludge but that probably wouldn't get you in any faster). I
should probably add that it would be quicker to use acid stream to eat away
the door around the maglock or hinges.
>
>Enough now. Arnt you glad im back!
>
>Edge
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
SteveD
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
Message no. 5
From: Jerry Hill <agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:25:27 -0400
>>4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
>>not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
>>most he can use?
>
>1 plus any dice equal to the force of the spell whicj in this case in only
>+1 so Two dice tops.


That's only true if you're playing by house rules. According to the BBB you
can add dice from your magic pool up to your magic rating, not the force of
the spell you're casting.

A lot of the other questions are going to depend on how you feel as a GM.
Do you want someone to be able to use two smartgun links? If so, let it
work. Do you want that acid bomb to do incidental damage to the guards'
weapons? If so, it does. And my books are too far away to check the recoil
question. I'm sure someone will be close to their books when replying.


Jerry Hill
--------------------------------------------
'Rome wasn't built in a day
but it didn't take long to go up in flames'
- Electric Hellfire Club
Message no. 6
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:57:02 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Ubiratan P. Alberton
Sent: April 26, 1998 4:03 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons

I consider a smartlink to be installed in both arms.
================================================
Er, could you expand on this statement? Are you trying to say that when one
has a smartlink installed that you get an induction pad in both hands? If
so, I disagree with you. Since I currently don't have any of th Shadowrun
books I will have to let someone else check it, but it was always my
imression based on reading the books that each Smartgun Link consists of one
pad in one hand. If one then installs a second link, then one would have one
pad in each hand, allowing one to use a smart weapon in either hand.

This is one area where CP beats Shadowrun. If you put the Interface plugs
in your neck, you can use smart weapons in either hand with no problem, as
compared to shadowrun which requires a pad in the hand.

Although I do prefer to have the ability to simply grab the weapon without
having to plug it in. In real life we now have a device that turns one's
body into a personal area network. I Shadowrun tech level PAD would allow
one to grab PAD enabled weapons, use them in either hand without requiring
hand surgery, or pluging in the weapons. This would also make it easier to
use Vehicule rigs and security doors. Not to mention computers.

You'd still have computer control rigs and such inside yourself, but
instead of using a cable to plug in, you simply touch the device you wanted
to use. And, due to the method the PAD works, any part of you body can be
used to connect.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 7
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:07:23 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of NightLife
Sent: April 26, 1998 4:16 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons

Nope. One brain equals one smartlink at a time.

===============
Excuse me, but is this actualled spelled out somewhere that I missed or is
this your intepretation? I honestly do not recall any such limitation, but
could be forgetting something. Please indicate where it is stated that one
can only use one link at a time? That would mean, that one could not use a
vehicule rig and a smart gun at the same time, and I don't recall that
limitation. So, in essence I hope you are wrong, but it is possible that I
am.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 8
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:07:31 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Stephen Delear
Sent: April 26, 1998 5:49 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons

Ouch that's scarry . I'd say yes but if I remember correctly no matter
what (even if you have ambi as a skill or edge) you still get +2 to all
target nums for using two weapons (that particular rule never did make much
sence).
==============================
Okay, you try and hold two autopistols [the easist two weapon combo] and
try to hit a target with them. You will fine [I guarentee it having fired
many different types of firearms] that you chance of hitting a target is
much less than if you held one pistol in two hands.

This rule has _nothing_ to do with ambidexterity or lack there of. In fact,
through person experience, and that of others I've known, your actual
handness is irrelevant. Its how you learn to shoot that counts. I am left
handed. I fire pistols both right and left handed because that's who I
learn. I fire rifles right hyanded because my left eye is too weak to use to
aim.

So, in conclusion,the reason you get modifiers against you when firing two
weapons is because it is unweildly to do so, no matter how well trained you
are.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt





>
>2. Ok a big bad troll comes a runing in to a melee fight. He has
>unarmed-cyber implant weapons-claws at 4/6/8, two weapon combat 6, ambi
>at 6(fields of fire rules), combat pool of 8 and reach of one. When he
>attacks in melee how many dice does he use? Whats the most he could
>use?

God who knows.
>
>3. Using a ares viper sliver gun, how many bursts does a user get in
>one combat phase? What is the recoil mods(no recoil comp on the gun)
>and when does the recoil penalties occurr?

Two. All penatlies apply same as other guns. Make your life easy get a
squirt the cops and corps are sure as hell going to remember anyone who
splatters sec guards with a slivergun (or bounces ammo of the goons armor).
>
>4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
>not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
>most he can use?

One the max he can roll is 7 assuming a magic score of 6.
>
>5. Mage gose up against a trio of gun toting corp sec guards. Cast
>acid bomb. What would be the effect of it on their weapons, and
>equipment?

Yes read the grimore discription of an acid elemental effect. For lower
amount of damage I'd say maybe but it'd take awhile.
>
>6. Would acid stream (spell) defeat a maglock? Wide open question i
>know but want to see what is said.

Depends how good the maglock is. Of hand I'd say acid stream dosn't give
you enough controll to eat away only the bolt (you could turn the reader
mechanism to sludge but that probably wouldn't get you in any faster). I
should probably add that it would be quicker to use acid stream to eat away
the door around the maglock or hinges.
>
>Enough now. Arnt you glad im back!
>
>Edge
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
SteveD
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
Message no. 9
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:42:03 -0500
On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Katt Freyson wrote:

> So, in conclusion,the reason you get modifiers against you when firing two
> weapons is because it is unweildly to do so, no matter how well trained you
> are.
>

Mm-hm. So howzabout if you could concentrate on _both_ guns at the same
time? I think that was the question, if I read right...
Message no. 10
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:30:34 -0500
>
> So, in conclusion,the reason you get modifiers against you when
firing two
>weapons is because it is unweildly to do so, no matter how well trained you
>are.
>
>Katt Freyson
>ICQ UIN 3337155
>Montreal, Canada
>http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
>

But would it still be unweildy with two cyberarms...

SteveD
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
Message no. 11
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:12:27 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 06:57 PM 4/26/98 -0400, Katt wrote:
> This is one area where CP beats Shadowrun. If you put the
Interface plugs
>in your neck, you can use smart weapons in either hand with no
problem, as
>compared to shadowrun which requires a pad in the hand.

Um. Even back in the days when BBB stood for Big _Blue_ Book, you
could always plug a smart gun into a datajack, if you wanted to.

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Message no. 12
From: NightLife <habenir@*****.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:41:24 -0400
>That's only true if you're playing by house rules. According to the BBB you
>can add dice from your magic pool up to your magic rating, not the force of
>the spell you're casting.

Page number please.Without checking I do believe equal to the force of the
spell. If I'm wrong point out the page number so I can check it out.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

"I am telling you nothing - merely asking you to remember that death come in
many shades. Some are harsh and infinitely painful to look upon; others can
be
as peaceful and beautiful as the setting sun. I am an artist, and many colors
lie on upon my palette. Let me paint him a rainbow, and give you the means to
decide where it ends."

Erik from the book Phantom.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 13
From: NightLife <habenir@*****.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:48:32 -0400
>Nope. One brain equals one smartlink at a time.
>
>===============
>        Excuse me, but is this actualled spelled
out=
somewhere that I missed
or is
>this your intepretation? I honestly do not recall any such limitation, but
>could be forgetting something. Please indicate where it is stated that one
>can only use one link at a time?

Rememer we're only talking about smartlinks. Off the top of my head I=
remember
something stated in Prime Runners which backs up my statement. But it been a
long standing limit with out the netbook and other technobabble that a
character can use only one smartlink at a time. This however doesn't apply
to a
smartlink and say a VCR.

> That would mean, that one could not use a
>vehicule rig and a smart gun at the same time, and I don't recall that
>limitation. So, in essence I hope you are wrong, but it is possible that I
>am.

No you're just expanding what I said too far. The topic was orginally only=
on
smartlink and the possibility of using a encephalon to get around the linit=
of
only being able to use one smartlink.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

"I am telling you nothing - merely asking you to remember that death come in=

many shades. Some are harsh and infinitely painful to look upon; others can
be
as peaceful and beautiful as the setting sun. I am an artist, and many=
colors
lie on upon my palette. Let me paint him a rainbow, and give you the means=
to
decide where it ends."

Erik from the book Phantom.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 14
From: Herbert Wolverson <hfw373s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:54:48 -0500
> > So, in conclusion,the reason you get modifiers against you when
> > firing two
> >weapons is because it is unweildly to do so, no matter how well
> > trained you >are.

> But would it still be unweildy with two cyberarms...

I know this is a slight tangent, but doesn't only having two eyes become
a limit, here? You need both of them to get good depth perception, and
my experience of target shooting is that both your eyes tend to be
looking at the one target. Cybereyes could probably do individual
targeting (although the chameleon eye type effect would be very confusing
until you got used to it!).....

Take care,
Bracket.

---------------------------------------------------
Herbert "Bracket" Wolverson
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7269/
---------------------------------------------------
" This is your life, this is your time,
What if the flame won't last forever?"
- Dio, "This is your life"
Message no. 15
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:16:15 -0300
Katt Freyson escreveu:
>

> I consider a smartlink to be installed in both arms.
> ================================================
> Er, could you expand on this statement? Are you trying to say that when one
> has a smartlink installed that you get an induction pad in both hands? If
> so, I disagree with you. Since I currently don't have any of th Shadowrun
> books I will have to let someone else check it, but it was always my
> imression based on reading the books that each Smartgun Link consists of one
> pad in one hand. If one then installs a second link, then one would have one
> pad in each hand, allowing one to use a smart weapon in either hand.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying... It's easier to handle. I don't
care much about
what the books say, if I want to change it, I just do it... Try
sometime, you'll like it :) .

> This is one area where CP beats Shadowrun. If you put the Interface plugs
> in your neck, you can use smart weapons in either hand with no problem, as
> compared to shadowrun which requires a pad in the hand.

The inconvenience of the cable running from your neck to the gun is
something, tough...
But no one beats the other. If you wanted to use the same system of CP
in SR2, you could.

> Although I do prefer to have the ability to simply grab the weapon without
> having to plug it in. In real life we now have a device that turns one's
> body into a personal area network. I Shadowrun tech level PAD would allow
> one to grab PAD enabled weapons, use them in either hand without requiring
> hand surgery, or pluging in the weapons. This would also make it easier to
> use Vehicule rigs and security doors. Not to mention computers.
>
> You'd still have computer control rigs and such inside yourself, but
> instead of using a cable to plug in, you simply touch the device you wanted
> to use. And, due to the method the PAD works, any part of you body can be
> used to connect.


But datajacks and such are an important part of the cyberpunk genre
:) ! This PAD stuff
may be better for Clarke's 3001, not for Shadowrun :) .

Ubiratan
Message no. 16
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:46:10 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Jonathan Andrews
Sent: April 26, 1998 7:42 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons


Mm-hm. So howzabout if you could concentrate on _both_ guns at the same
time? I think that was the question, if I read right...
===============
No, you did not read right. Yes the original poster asked that question.
But I was NOT replying to that, I was replying to someone saying the could
not understand the rule that gave modifiers against you when you fired with
a gun in each hand.
That was what my post was addressing. But, to answer your question, I see
no reason why not. I've done it, and I am sure many have. Unless the
mechanics of the link make it impossible to do so.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 17
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:03:01 EDT
In a message dated 4/26/98 9:42:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
habenir@*****.UC.EDU writes:

> >That's only true if you're playing by house rules. According to the BBB
> you
> >can add dice from your magic pool up to your magic rating, not the force
of
> >the spell you're casting.
>
> Page number please.Without checking I do believe equal to the force of the
> spell. If I'm wrong point out the page number so I can check it out.

Okay, make me go digging the book out here...

First of all, as I'm skimming in reverse..."Jason" on page 131 of the BBB
casts a Force 4 Power Dart at a Mercenary, he is allocating 6 more dice from
his Magic Pool....

And then finally under "Magic Pool" on page 85 of the BBB, it says ... "The
maximum number of Magic Pool dice that a character can add to a Magic Success
Test is equal to his Magic Attribute."

There, satisfied???

-K
Message no. 18
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:18:00 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Herbert Wolverson
Sent: April 26, 1998 10:55 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons


I know this is a slight tangent, but doesn't only having two eyes become
a limit, here? You need both of them to get good depth perception, and
my experience of target shooting is that both your eyes tend to be
looking at the one target. Cybereyes could probably do individual
targeting (although the chameleon eye type effect would be very confusing
until you got used to it!).....
==================
Well, first of all, we were talking about using two weapons simultaneously,
no one actually mentioned anything about shooting at two targets. Secondly,
if you could have two smartgun links and used an enchaphalon, I'd say that
it were possible to shoot at two targets. They'd have to be pretty much
close to each other, rather, both targets being in the same field of vision.
IE: you'd have to be able to see both targets without moving your head. Eyes
can change their focus pretty damn fast. When you are looking at a scene,
have you ever noticed that all objects are in focus? That's because your
eyes are constantly focusing, based on what you are actually looking at, so
you don't notice it as you scan.

It would also depend on what devices are loaded on your weapons. Their used
to be a targetting device called the Ultra-sound sight [not sure, but it
seems to have disapeared] which would actually paint a picture based on what
it received. A blind person with a smartgun link and this sight could
actually move about. If one had such sights on one's guns, and had the
proper head gear, it should be possible to aim at two targets, as long as
you could physically point at the two targets at the same time.

I believe that there are such things as Gun cameras, these too would allow
it. One person stated that according to long standing rules(sic) you could
not use two smartgun links at once, but could use a link and a VCR. This to
me seems rather silly. Surely a VCR takes more out of you brain that a SGL?

Be that as it may. If encephalons can increase one's cranial activity, then
it should be possible to use two links at once.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 19
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:18:26 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Stephen Delear
Sent: April 26, 1998 8:31 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons


But would it still be unweildy with two cyberarms...
===================
The way I see it, you should have varying bonus levels based on the
situation:
1) Firing a hand gun one handed [normal arm] should involve a penalty ie:
the target number should increase
2) Firing a hand gun one handed [cyber arm] should involve no modifiers.
3) Firing a hand gun with both hands [normal] should involve no modifiers
4) Firing a hand gun with both hands [cyber] should involve a bonus to the
action, ie: a lower target number

The actual modifiers would depend on the power level of the weapon,
reflecting the greater recoil and jumping from great power.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 20
From: NightLife <habenir@*****.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:28:49 -0400
>There, satisfied???
>
>-K

Yep, was it good for you too? ;) ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

"I am telling you nothing - merely asking you to remember that death come in
many shades. Some are harsh and infinitely painful to look upon; others can
be
as peaceful and beautiful as the setting sun. I am an artist, and many colors
lie on upon my palette. Let me paint him a rainbow, and give you the means to
decide where it ends."

Erik from the book Phantom.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:04:27 +0100
Katt Freyson said on 0:18/27 Apr 98...

> The way I see it, you should have varying bonus levels based on the
> situation:
> 1) Firing a hand gun one handed [normal arm] should involve a penalty ie:
> the target number should increase

I've got some house rules that addresses this. Basically I multiply the
recoil by varying factors depending on how the weapon is held; firing a
pistol one-handed is x1.5, for example.

> 2) Firing a hand gun one handed [cyber arm] should involve no modifiers.

I disagree. Cyberarms are available in different Strength ratings, and
IMHO it should be based on the arm's Strength, not on the fact that it's a
cyberlimb.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's better to have loved and lost
Than to listen to an Olivia Newton John record
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:04:27 +0100
NightLife said on 22:41/26 Apr 98...

> >That's only true if you're playing by house rules. According to the BBB you
> >can add dice from your magic pool up to your magic rating, not the force of
> >the spell you're casting.
>
> Page number please.Without checking I do believe equal to the force of the
> spell. If I'm wrong point out the page number so I can check it out.

SRII page 85, the last paragraph in the left-hand column.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's better to have loved and lost
Than to listen to an Olivia Newton John record
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Message no. 23
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:04:27 +0100
Scott Peterson said on 12:21/26 Apr 98...

> 1. Does an encephalon allow the user to run two smartlinks with out any
> modifiers? Read both descriptions and consider the question.

Encephalons allow a degree of multi-tasking, according to The Smiling
Bandit, and using two firearms results in smartlinks not giving any bonus.
I think I'd change that last bit so that one-half the encephalon's level
is subtracted from the TN when the character is using two smartlinked
weapons.

> 2. Ok a big bad troll comes a runing in to a melee fight. He has
> unarmed-cyber implant weapons-claws at 4/6/8, two weapon combat 6, ambi
> at 6(fields of fire rules), combat pool of 8 and reach of one. When he
> attacks in melee how many dice does he use? Whats the most he could
> use?

The "two weapon combat" skill must be for the weapons to be used, for
example "Spurs and Sword" or "Fist and Spurs". If not, the character
can
only attack with on weapon, because he doesn't have all the required
skills. Additionally, he needs to have a skill for _both_ weapons, so that
could mean he needs to learn the same skill twice. Your troll would need
the following skills (assuming he wants to attack with spurs and a bare
fist):

Unarmed Combat (with a concentration or specialization if you want)
Unarmed Combat (with a concentration or specialization if you want)
Special Skill: the two chosen weapons

The Ambidexterity skill isn't necessary.

Assuming he has all that, the character rolls a number of dice equal to
the total of both weapon skills, and the total number of Combat Pool dice
that may be rolled is equal to the Special Skill. For example, if your
troll has Unarmed Combat (Cyber Implant Weapons, Claws) 8 and Unarmed
Combat (Punches) 6, he rolls 14 dice. With his Special Skill: Fist and
Claws 6, he can roll up to 6 Combat Pool dice.

> 3. Using a ares viper sliver gun, how many bursts does a user get in
> one combat phase? What is the recoil mods(no recoil comp on the gun)
> and when does the recoil penalties occurr?

It can fire two bursts per action phase, as it's a normal BF-capable
weapon and you can fire a burst in a Simple Action. The recoil is +3 per
burst, and thus a +3 is applied to the first burst and a +6 to the second.

> 4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
> not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
> most he can use?

7 dice. The maximum number of Magic Pool dice you can add here is equal to
your Magic Attribute, so with a Force 1 spell and a Magic rating of 6, you
can throw 7 dice for the spell.

> 5. Mage gose up against a trio of gun toting corp sec guards. Cast
> acid bomb. What would be the effect of it on their weapons, and
> equipment?

The normal secondary effect of the acid elemental effect, per the
Grimoire (page 113). Suggested there is to reduce armor ratings by 1, and
if the spell does Deadly damage, to corrode metal equipment (like
weapons) into junk.

> 6. Would acid stream (spell) defeat a maglock? Wide open question i
> know but want to see what is said.

Depends on the maglock design. If it's supposed to open when the lock is
destroyed (like for an emergency exit) I'd say it does; locks that are
supposed to close will close, OTOH.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
It's better to have loved and lost
Than to listen to an Olivia Newton John record
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Message no. 24
From: Jan Ove Liatun <jan.ove.liatun@**.ICL.NO>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:39:44 +0200
>> 4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
>> not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
>> most he can use?
>
><Gurth wrote:>
>7 dice. The maximum number of Magic Pool dice you can add here is equal to
>your Magic Attribute, so with a Force 1 spell and a Magic rating of 6, you
>can throw 7 dice for the spell.
>
>This is how we play it too, but we do use the rule of a fumble if the number
>of 1's is greater than the force/skill, so that using 7 dice on a force 1
>spell is not the best strategy. This encourages having spells with high force
>as opposed to 10+ force 2 and 3 spells. Not sure if this is strictly by the
>book, but...
>
>Jan Ove Liatun
>-the newcomer
Message no. 25
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:47:12 EDT
In a message dated 4/26/98 7:33:22 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
peterson_scott@*******.COM writes:

> Ok good to be back been a long time since i was here. Couple of
> questions:
>
> 1. Does an encephalon allow the user to run two smartlinks with out any
> modifiers? Read both descriptions and consider the question.

Yes, and you could even say that the smartlinks are run via software linked
into the encephalon, running out of a dedicated channel of it.

> 2. Ok a big bad troll comes a runing in to a melee fight. He has
> unarmed-cyber implant weapons-claws at 4/6/8, two weapon combat 6, ambi
> at 6(fields of fire rules), combat pool of 8 and reach of one. When he
> attacks in melee how many dice does he use? Whats the most he could
> use?

A maximum of 16 dice (8 for the claws and 8 from the combat pool),
ambisexterity does not give dice, it only helps with modifiers.

> 3. Using a ares viper sliver gun, how many bursts does a user get in
> one combat phase? What is the recoil mods(no recoil comp on the gun)
> and when does the recoil penalties occurr?

Two, as SA means one shot/burst per simple action and there are only two
simple actions in a single action.

> 4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
> not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
> most he can use?

Sorcery skill and Magic Pool are one and the same thing. The mage rolls one
dice (for the force of the spell) and then as many dice as he/she wants from
their Magic pool with the limit being the Magic Attribute of the mage (and
yes, power foci and the like do modify the limit).

> 5. Mage gose up against a trio of gun toting corp sec guards. Cast
> acid bomb. What would be the effect of it on their weapons, and
> equipment?

Subject to the gm's discretion, though the amount of damage inflicted on the
npcs could also be used as an indication of how well their equipment wihtstood
the spell.

> 6. Would acid stream (spell) defeat a maglock? Wide open question i
> know but want to see what is said.

Umm, yeah, unless the maglock resists the spell entirely. Though in the case
of some maglocks, do this and security is going to now where you are.

> Enough now. Arnt you glad im back!
>
> Edge

Welcome back, get'im Bull ... you need the practice anyway ...

Mike
Message no. 26
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:33:15 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Gurth
Sent: April 27, 1998 8:04 AM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons



I've got some house rules that addresses this. Basically I multiply the
recoil by varying factors depending on how the weapon is held; firing a
pistol one-handed is x1.5, for example.

======================
Excuse me, but the recoil would only be a factor for subsequent shots. The
recoil of a handgun does _not_ affect the shot that just went off. The
reason for the modifiers is that a single arm normally has a problem holding
anything heavy at the end of the arm steady.

Yes, I know I mentioned recoil before, that was an error. The modifier
should be based on the powerlevel of the weapon, due to the weight of the
weapon.

Now, if we are taling about burst fire, then the recoil for the shot is
important. In a single shot shooting, it isn't, unless we are rapid fireing
single shots, then for the 2nd and subsequent shots a recoil modifier would
be used. Something that I believe is already there.

While I agree that cyberlimbs come in different strenghts, it is easier to
lock a cyberlimb than a regular limb. Ergo, the wobbling effect is much
lower, therefore less modifiers.


Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 27
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:33:30 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Gurth
Sent: April 27, 1998 8:04 AM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons


Encephalons allow a degree of multi-tasking, according to The Smiling
Bandit, and using two firearms results in smartlinks not giving any bonus.
I think I'd change that last bit so that one-half the encephalon's level
is subtracted from the TN when the character is using two smartlinked
weapons.
===========================

Er, but why? I can understand if you are using two weapons to fire at two
different targets, but what if you are doing the two-fisted-guns of death
thing? The two weapons being fired at the same target should work.
Especially when using an encephalon. Could you please explain to this one
why not? And if you have it from the rules, quote them? Thanks.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 28
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:39:45 -0500
> smartgun links and encephalons
(Scott Peterson , Sun 14:21)
>
> Ok good to be back been a long time since i was here. Couple of
> questions:
>
> 1. Does an encephalon allow the user to run two smartlinks with out any
> modifiers? Read both descriptions and consider the question.
>

Anybody can use two smartlinks (seperately), but I assume you mean gain
a benefit from either orbothwhen firing 2 weapons simultaniously. There
is no rule stating it would help any (or does anythingnotlisted in
shadowtech), so basically, no. It's proably also a bad idea for game
balance reasons.

On the other hand, such a setup might allow two weapon use with no
PENALTY, which would actually be nice- tow weapons, normal flat TN's of
4 for short range, etc. This is actually somewhat better than getting
the smartmodifier but also the 2nd weapon penalty.

> 2. Ok a big bad troll comes a runing in to a melee fight. He has
> unarmed-cyber implant weapons-claws at 4/6/8, two weapon combat 6, ambi
> at 6(fields of fire rules), combat pool of 8 and reach of one. When he
> attacks in melee how many dice does he use? Whats the most he could
> use?
>

Two weapon combat is a special skill taken for using a paired set of
weapons. It has NOTHING to do with abidexterity- you just follow the
second weapon in combat rules. Each combo of weapons is a different
skill, and only certain combo's are allowed.

If the troll above had spurrs in both arms, and the GM allowed a "2 spur
second weapon skill", the troll could roll 8 dice for each spur, plus up
to 6 combat pool (second weapon skill). Reach and damage would be the
average of that of the two weapons.

FoF makes this all rather clear.

> 3. Using a ares viper sliver gun, how many bursts does a user get in
> one combat phase? What is the recoil mods(no recoil comp on the gun)
> and when does the recoil penalties occurr?

2 bursts, each as a simple action, like any other BF weaopn (the
Savalette gaurdian stating in its description that it is not "true"
burst fire bieng a notable exeption). Each previous round fired adds 1
recoil, so the first burst has 2 recoil, the second 5. The table lists
recould for a burst as +3, but I see no reason to make it different from
normal recoil.

>
> 4. Casting increased reflexes +3 die, force 1, sorcery 6, magic pool 6,
> not an initiate, how many dies does he use to cast the spell? Whats the
> most he can use?
>

1 die for the spell's force plus up to magic rating from the magic pool,
by sr2 rules.

> 5. Mage gose up against a trio of gun toting corp sec guards. Cast
> acid bomb. What would be the effect of it on their weapons, and
> equipment?
>

The grimoire lists rules for determing this. Basically, roll 2 dice to
see if an object suffers "elemental effects"- if the dice beat the
object resistance, it does. The dice are adjusted DOWN if the damage is
less than deadly ( 2 perlevel, I think) or from a combat spell (also -2,
IIRC), so toechnological and processed items are rarely affected.

> 6. Would acid stream (spell) defeat a maglock? Wide open question i
> know but want to see what is said.

"Defeat" how? It could destroy it like any other attack, possibly
better, as DMS cut through barriers fairly well. If you want to
eleinate the doors deadbolt, this spell could work, if the spell force
is high enough, and the door not overly tough.

>
> Enough now. Arnt you glad im back!
>

Sure. Love those easy questions. :)

-Mongoose
Message no. 29
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:18:22 -0500
At 12:18 AM 98-04-27 -0400, you wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
>Behalf Of Herbert Wolverson
>Sent: April 26, 1998 10:55 PM
>To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
>Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
>
>
>I know this is a slight tangent, but doesn't only having two eyes become
>a limit, here? You need both of them to get good depth perception, and
>my experience of target shooting is that both your eyes tend to be
>looking at the one target. Cybereyes could probably do individual
>targeting (although the chameleon eye type effect would be very confusing
>until you got used to it!).....
>==================
Who needs depth perception just put rangefinders in your cybereyes. If you
can somehow jack in a ultrasound sight that would be even better.

> Well, first of all, we were talking about using two weapons
simultaneously,
>no one actually mentioned anything about shooting at two targets. Secondly,
>if you could have two smartgun links and used an enchaphalon, I'd say that
>it were possible to shoot at two targets. They'd have to be pretty much
>close to each other, rather, both targets being in the same field of vision.
>IE: you'd have to be able to see both targets without moving your head. Eyes
>can change their focus pretty damn fast. When you are looking at a scene,
>have you ever noticed that all objects are in focus? That's because your
>eyes are constantly focusing, based on what you are actually looking at, so
>you don't notice it as you scan.
>
> It would also depend on what devices are loaded on your weapons.
Their used
>to be a targetting device called the Ultra-sound sight [not sure, but it
>seems to have disapeared] which would actually paint a picture based on what
>it received. A blind person with a smartgun link and this sight could
>actually move about. If one had such sights on one's guns, and had the
>proper head gear, it should be possible to aim at two targets, as long as
>you could physically point at the two targets at the same time.


Still there look in the SSC.
>Katt Freyson
>ICQ UIN 3337155
>Montreal, Canada
>http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
>

SteveD
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
Message no. 30
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:47:11 +0100
Katt Freyson said on 11:33/27 Apr 98...

> Er, but why?

There's nothing I can say without you questioning it, is there?

> I can understand if you are using two weapons to fire at two different
> targets, but what if you are doing the two-fisted-guns of death thing?
> The two weapons being fired at the same target should work. Especially
> when using an encephalon. Could you please explain to this one why not?
> And if you have it from the rules, quote them? Thanks.

Okay. The rules for two-handed fire indicate that smartlinked weapons and
laser sights do not give a bonus (SRII page 90). IMHO these rules assume
both weapons are fired at the same target, although they don't explicitly
mention it.

Next, I thought about how an encephalon allows multi-tasking, according to
the comment below the main text, and how this multi-tasking would apply to
the input from two different smartlink systems. I wanted a way to include
the level, because IMHO if something has a level, you should use that
level in the rules you come up with. Simply allowing everything to do the
same despite one thing being better or worse than the other doesn't feel
right to me. Anyway, I came up with one-half the level because the highest
level encephalon is level 4, and the bonus a smartlink gives is -2. This
way, with a level 1 or 2 encephalon you get a -1, with level 3 or 4, a -2.

Basically it's the TLAR (That Looks About Right) method of coming up with
game rules for things not covered by the publisher. Nothing more.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Neighbors, let us join today in the holy love of God and money
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 31
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:47:11 +0100
Katt Freyson said on 11:33/27 Apr 98...

> Excuse me, but the recoil would only be a factor for subsequent shots. The
> recoil of a handgun does _not_ affect the shot that just went off.

I know.

> The reason for the modifiers is that a single arm normally has a problem
> holding anything heavy at the end of the arm steady.

I know that too. However, SR's combat system does not take these things
into account, and although you could introduce it, IMHO it will throw
things out of proportion -- remember that even a +1 means a 17% smaller
chance of actually hitting the target. Now if we were talking about a
percentile system aimed at realism it would be easy and almost required to
incorporate (e.g. Phoenix Command: -4 ALM for firing a pistol one-handed)
but SR's system is much more cinematic, and at any rate doesn't take
differences between weapons into account very often. All in all, it's my
opinion that modifying the recoil is sufficient.

> Yes, I know I mentioned recoil before, that was an error. The modifier
> should be based on the powerlevel of the weapon, due to the weight of the
> weapon.

That makes very little sense, I think. If you want a modifier because of
the weapon's weight, why base it on the Power Level? It would be much
easier to just give, say, a +1 for every 2 kg of weapon you're trying to
aim with one hand.

> Now, if we are taling about burst fire, then the recoil for the shot is
> important. In a single shot shooting, it isn't, unless we are rapid fireing
> single shots, then for the 2nd and subsequent shots a recoil modifier would
> be used. Something that I believe is already there.

Most people in SR fire two shots in a combat phase with a pistol: one each
Simple Action. The second shot is subject to the recoil from the first
(SRII page somethingorother), so yes, it's there already. This is also
what I chose to enhance for not holding the weapon with both hands.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Neighbors, let us join today in the holy love of God and money
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 32
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:02:53 EDT
In a message dated 4/26/98 11:30:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
habenir@*****.UC.EDU writes:

> >There, satisfied???
> >
> >-K
>
> Yep, was it good for you too? ;) ;)
>
Sort of, but I have problems with Cigarettes afterwards.... :P

-K
Message no. 33
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:09:55 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Gurth
Sent: April 27, 1998 3:47 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons


There's nothing I can say without you questioning it, is there?

=============My response ================

Why do you say that? <grin> Yes, anything you post is subject to being
questioned, ifyou cannot accept this, I'd suggest you quit posting. What you
do you think this list is for, ego gratification? <grin>

The point is that if you say something that I don't understand I will
question it. How else can I undestand your wisdom? As for the rules about
using two smartlinked weapons at once, I see that I was in err, there are
rules at that is fine.

However, I'd say that the rules don't take into account encephalons and
other such things. I like your idea about levels.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 34
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:50:13 -0500
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Gurth wrote:

> the input from two different smartlink systems. I wanted a way to include
> the level, because IMHO if something has a level, you should use that
> level in the rules you come up with. Simply allowing everything to do the
> same despite one thing being better or worse than the other doesn't feel
> right to me. Anyway, I came up with one-half the level because the highest
>

I don't know... You're talking about multi-tasking ability. A better
multi-tasking ability would let you perform more tasks, yes? Would it also
increase your ability at two of the tasks in particular (in this case,
firing with gun A and gun B at the same time)?

Jus' wonderin'...
Jonathan Andrews
Message no. 35
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:25 +0100
Jonathan Andrews said on 21:50/27 Apr 98...

> I don't know... You're talking about multi-tasking ability. A better
> multi-tasking ability would let you perform more tasks, yes? Would it also
> increase your ability at two of the tasks in particular (in this case,
> firing with gun A and gun B at the same time)?

Well, you could reason that the encephalon has the _capability_ to
multi-task, but it does it by dividing CPU time between all the tasks
you're using it for (if you use Win95, run a util called Wintop sometime,
you'll see what I mean). That way, the more things you try to do at once,
the increase (represented by the encephalon's level) would be divided over
all the tasks; that way if you're doing only two things, your bonus would
be higher than when you're doing four things at once.

However, incorporating this into a game calls for very complex rules and a
lot of bookkeeping, so I think it's easiest to say that the level
represents both the increase in ability, and the degree to which you can
multi-task things. IOW: keep things simple enough to be usable in the
game.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Neighbors, let us join today in the holy love of God and money
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 36
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:24 +0100
Katt Freyson said on 22:09/27 Apr 98...

> > There's nothing I can say without you questioning it, is there?
>
> Why do you say that? <grin>

Because that's the way it comes across to me... I post something, and you
almost jump at my throat about it :)

> Yes, anything you post is subject to being questioned, ifyou cannot
> accept this, I'd suggest you quit posting.

ME quit posting? It has been suggested that the list's end would be nigh
if that ever happened. Not that I want to confirm or deny those rumors, of
course... ;)

> The point is that if you say something that I don't understand I will
> question it.

Good attitude.

> How else can I undestand your wisdom? As for the rules about using two
> smartlinked weapons at once, I see that I was in err, there are rules at
> that is fine.
>
> However, I'd say that the rules don't take into account encephalons and
> other such things. I like your idea about levels.

The rules don't take encephalons into account because the SR main rulebook
doesn't refer to other rulebooks where it can help it (IIRC the only
mention is to refer to the Grimoire for spell design) so for that reason
encephalons aren't mentioned in the Using Two Firearms rules.

At any rate, the encephalon isn't quite as worked-out as it should be,
IMHO. There are lots of things you could do with what's basically a CPU
and some associated chips inside your head, but Shadowtech leaves most of
them up to the imagination of the players instead of giving some
guidelines for it :(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Neighbors, let us join today in the holy love of God and money
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 37
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:44:08 -0500
> Re: smartgun links and encephalons (Gurth , Mon 7:04)

> Encephalons allow a degree of multi-tasking, according to The Smiling
Bandit, and using two firearms results in smartlinks not giving any
bonus. I think I'd change that last bit so that one-half the
encephalon's level is subtracted from the TN when the character is using
two smartlinked weapons.
>

I think I'd change that to allowing the smartguns bonus to be used, up
to a total bonus of the encepalons (plus any present I/O spu's) level
per action. So a level 3 smartlink would allow one shot at +2, and
another at +1, or 3 at +1. A level 4 encehplaon and a level 4 I/O spu
would allow 4 shots at +2.
"Multitasking" doesn't require a that all tasks get equal attention,
and data transfer rates could get important.
Note that these limits only apply when you are trying to multitask the
use of 2 hands, but can aplly even if only one gun is "linked". You
could use your enchalon 4 to get the full bonus of your onelink and
still use your off hand for a second firearm. All the normal PENALTIES
for two hand fire would apply in all cases, though.

-Mongoose
Message no. 38
From: Mike Loseke <mike@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:31:40 -0600
Thus spake Wafflemeisters:
>
> > Re: smartgun links and encephalons (Gurth , Mon 7:04)
>
> > Encephalons allow a degree of multi-tasking, according to The Smiling
> Bandit, and using two firearms results in smartlinks not giving any
> bonus. I think I'd change that last bit so that one-half the
> encephalon's level is subtracted from the TN when the character is using
> two smartlinked weapons.
> >
>
> I think I'd change that to allowing the smartguns bonus to be used, up
> to a total bonus of the encepalons (plus any present I/O spu's) level
> per action. So a level 3 smartlink would allow one shot at +2, and
> another at +1, or 3 at +1. A level 4 encehplaon and a level 4 I/O spu
> would allow 4 shots at +2.

When you say "level 3 smartlink" do you mean "level 3 encephalon"
instead? I for one am not in favor of changing existing tech scales to
take advantage of using two weapons, however if you mean the latter than
I think I agree with you. I'm not sure about the I/O spu increasing the
number of actions though...

--
Mike Loseke | Unix: Best used by its freshness
mike@*******.com | date of January 19, 2038
Message no. 39
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: smartgun links and encephalons
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:37:47 -0500
>
> Re: smartgun links and encephalons (Mike Loseke , Tue 17:31)
>
> > > Encephalons allow a degree of multi-tasking, according to The Smiling
> > Bandit, and using two firearms results in smartlinks not giving any
> > bonus. I think I'd change that last bit so that one-half the
> > encephalon's level is subtracted from the TN when the character is using
> > two smartlinked weapons.
> > >
> >
> > I think I'd change that to allowing the smartguns bonus to be used, up
> > to a total bonus of the encepalons (plus any present I/O spu's) level
> > per action. So a level 3 smartlink would allow one shot at +2, and
> > another at +1, or 3 at +1. A level 4 encehplaon and a level 4 I/O spu
> > would allow 4 shots at +2.
>
> When you say "level 3 smartlink" do you mean "level 3
encephalon"

Yes- exactly. Theres no "smartlink 3". I'd have a smartlink2 work
identically here, also, including using its called shot effect and -1
extreeme range as consuming some ofthe enchlons "cycles" and the I/O's
"bandwidth".

> instead? I for one am not in favor of changing existing tech scales to
> take advantage of using two weapons, however if you mean the latter than
> I think I agree with you. I'm not sure about the I/O spu increasing the
> number of actions though...
>

Not number of actions- just the extent to which the smartlink can be
used while doing 2-hand fire. It does seem cheap compared to an
encephalon, but the encephalon does a few other things. And the I/O
really has NO use right now. Let me rectify- you NEED the enchepahlon,
and the I/O will duplicate the encehplons effect, up to the I/O's
level. You could also reasonably HALVE the effect from the I/O.

So a encephalon 1 and a I/O 4 would allow limited use of your
smartlink(s) to reduce TN penalties up to 2 each time you acted, if
firing 2 weapons. If you had an encepahlon 2, the total allowed would
be 4. With both at 4, you could knock off up to 6- maybe using 2
smartlinks, or doing full autofire at 3 targets, or using a smartlink 2
to knock off more than 2 per shot.

Of course, the TACTICAL COMPUTER doesn't do this dreck, so why should
the encephalon? "Multitask your cognitive needs" could just be fancy
talk for "increases intellegence and gives a task pool". Or complete
jetwash- its shadowtalk, after all. Besides, firearms use ain't very
"cognitaive".

But I was tired of being the guy who always says "hell no,that won't fly
here".

-Mongoose

Further Reading

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