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Message no. 1
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Smartlink and Vision Magnification
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 10:48:17 -0400 (EDT)
On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Gurth wrote:

> I do allow cybereye-mounted magnification devices to work together with
> smartlinks. If the scope is one the weapon, then no, you can't get both
> the scope and the smartlink (anyone doing a quick calculation will work
> out that at some ranges it doesn't matter which one you use, at others you
> go for the scope, and at the ones closest-by you use the smartlink :)

I allow it as well, but with a hitch. It takes actions to
"acquire and steady" with cyberoptics at longer ranges. Since you have
telescoped your vision for maximum magnification, you have a fairly small
field of vision. Added to this is the fact that your smartlink
cross-hair may spend a significant portion of its time outside your field
of view (small correction on your end may whiz the cross-hair far outside
you FOV). Hence, at longer ranges, it takes an action to get your cross
hair over the target and "zero" the range. It would be like pointing a
laser sight with one hand while looking through a pair of high-powered
binoculars with the other. Half the time, you can't see where your point
of aim actually is, even if you can see the target. You *can* do it, but
it's not easy.

Marc
Message no. 2
From: Night Prowler <ggreve@*******.hanse.de>
Subject: Re: Smartlink and Vision Magnification
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:48:14 +0200
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 18:48:08 +0200 (MET DST)

> I allow it as well, but with a hitch. It takes actions to
> "acquire and steady" with cyberoptics at longer ranges. Since you have
> telescoped your vision for maximum magnification, you have a fairly small
> field of vision. Added to this is the fact that your smartlink

The way I see it is that you'll have an arrow on your field of vision
if the gun does point at something you don't see at the moment. This
way it would be WAY easier to get the gun back on line than playing
around with some binocular where you usually don't know which way to
go.

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The curse of love is the cause of the pain [...] |
| If you give them a finger, they'll take off your hand" |
| AC/DC - "C.O.D." |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 3
From: Robert Blackberg III <blackbrc@***.fiserv.com>
Subject: Re: Smartlink and Vision Magnification
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 15:43:12 -0400
>> I allow it as well, but with a hitch. It takes actions to
>> "acquire and steady" with cyberoptics at longer ranges. Since you
have
>> telescoped your vision for maximum magnification, you have a
fairly small
>> field of vision. Added to this is the fact that your smartlink


>The way I see it is that you'll have an arrow on your field of
vision
>if the gun does point at something you don't see at the moment. This
>way it would be WAY easier to get the gun back on line than playing
>around with some binocular where you usually don't know which way to
>go.

>Later,
>Georg

This discussion brings up an interesting point: If you allow your
players to use a smartlink and image magnification scope at the same
how do you account for windage and bullet drop. Does your sniper
have to "eyeball" it (e.g: the wind is from the West at 10kph and
the target is 1km away so the sniper actually aims the crosshairs 2m
to the left and 1 m up), this method would take some serious skill,
or does the sniper adjust the aim point of the smartlink itself (e.g:
the wind is from the West at 10kph and the target is 1km away so the
sniper readjusts the aim point of the smartlink so that the
crosshairs are on the target, but the rifle is actually pointed 2m to
the left and 1m up), this method would take a bit of time to
recalibrate and would leave the sniper helpless in close-combat.

Or maybe nobody wants to get this technical.

Robert
Message no. 4
From: Stephen Delear <shadow@***.com>
Subject: Re: Smartlink and Vision Magnification
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:39:59 -0500 (CDT)
On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Marc A Renouf wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Gurth wrote:
>
> > I do allow cybereye-mounted magnification devices to work together with
> > smartlinks. If the scope is one the weapon, then no, you can't get both
> > the scope and the smartlink (anyone doing a quick calculation will work
> > out that at some ranges it doesn't matter which one you use, at others you
> > go for the scope, and at the ones closest-by you use the smartlink :)
>
> I allow it as well, but with a hitch. It takes actions to
> "acquire and steady" with cyberoptics at longer ranges. Since you have
> telescoped your vision for maximum magnification, you have a fairly small
> field of vision. Added to this is the fact that your smartlink
> cross-hair may spend a significant portion of its time outside your field
> of view (small correction on your end may whiz the cross-hair far outside
> you FOV). Hence, at longer ranges, it takes an action to get your cross
> hair over the target and "zero" the range. It would be like pointing a
> laser sight with one hand while looking through a pair of high-powered
> binoculars with the other. Half the time, you can't see where your point
> of aim actually is, even if you can see the target. You *can* do it, but
> it's not easy.
>
> Marc
>
>
Since with electronic magnification the user is taking in the whole scene
but the computer is only showing him part of it (which fills his entire
field of view thus giving a magnification effect with out the need for
magnifying optics) it should be possible for him to precive the entire
scene by modifying and image link to show the output of the cybereye in
normal mode. Of course he's probably encephalon so that splitting his
attention dose not cause problems. This would also allow him to put the
smartlink crosshairs over the target in a gross manor by using the 'over
all view window' then to fine tune his aim in his magnified vision
(though it might not hurt if he modified his cyberarm [if he has one] so
that movement would be to scale with his magnification). Then again I
still say the character would be better off with a tac computer,
electronic mag 3 and a laser sight on his gun then trying to combine a
smartlink and mags (which may present some technical problems we're not
thinking about here).

Ok question of the day can image mags be used with a tact comp so that it
always is rolling against 4 (keep in mind since electronic dose not alter
the users optics any I don't see why it can't be used as a background task).

Stephen
Message no. 5
From: dhinkley@***.org
Subject: Re: Smartlink and Vision Magnification
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 16:58:09 -0700 (PDT)
A couple of points regarding Magnifing cyber eyes, sighting systems,
Smart Links and firearms.

1. Firing a weapon with iron sights--- To fire a weapon equipted with iron
sights the firer must keep the front sight, the rear sight and the target in
view, and somewhat in focas at the same time. It is my contention that the
magnifcation effects of the cybereye would make this process more difficult if
not impossible. For this reason I would not grant any benfit for the use of the
cybereyes (I assume that the PC is smart enough not to crank up the
maginfication while useing iron sights. If they insisted I would ascess a +2
target number for each level of magnification used [this is a house rule]).

2. Firing a weapon with a scope--- In this case the firer is looking through a
device that does two things, it magnifies the target and superinposes a
crosshair that indecates where the bullet will [should :)] impact. The
magnfication effect of the cybereye would only make the image on the scope
larger. I do not think that this would provide any benifit.

3. Firing a weapon with a laser sight----A laser sight consists of a laser that
projects a dot of light visible to the shooter at the impact point of the
weapon. As the real impact point of a weapon varies by range from where the
weapon is pointed, a laser sight is sighted in at predetermined combat range.
The shooter lerns where to hold the dot to hit targets at other ranges, this
process is often called Kentucky windage. It is also important to note that a
laser has a range after which either it is not visible or it is to large to be
useful. While the magnifaction effect of a cybereye might provide provide a
small degree of enhancement I don't belive that it is great enough to warrent
giving it the same advantage as a properly set scope. Sighting in the laser for
long ranges makes short range shooting harder and Kentucky windage requires a
lot of practice with a particular weapon and sight configuration and setting.

4. Firing a Smart link equiped weapon--- The Smart Link system causes a dot that
indicates the impact point of the weapon to be projected on to the feild of view
of the shooter. It does this by tracking the location of the weapon and the
direction it is pointed then caluculating the impact point based on data
programed in at the time the Smart Link is attached. It is important to note
that the system does not know what item in the field of view is the target, the
impact point is based on a preset range. In my view all the problems assocated
with a laser sight also apply with Smart Link plus the problem that while the
world is 3D the image that the dot is projected on is 2D. IMHO the basic
modifier for a smart link is suffient. All other advantages whould only acrue
after much practice time at the range and are reflected in the basic skill
rating (yes, the skill improvement also applies to all weapons and sighting
combinations with in the weapons class, This is an effect of having a resonable
sized skills system. One could subdivide the skills to more accuratly reflect
reality at the cost of playablity.

For the above listed reasons I would not give any advantage to a
character equiped with a magnifing cyber eye in shooting a weapon. I would give
him advantages in locating a target to shoot at.


David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Smartlink and Vision Magnification
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 11:58:12 +0100
Robert Blackberg III said on 15:43/ 7 Jun 96...

> This discussion brings up an interesting point: If you allow your
> players to use a smartlink and image magnification scope at the same
> how do you account for windage and bullet drop.

The way I see it, a smartlink does all that for you, kind of like a modern
tank fire control system (OK, maybe with a bit less sensors hooked to it),
so it takes care of wind, range to target, and bullet velocity, and then
shifts your crosshair to compensate for it. A hit isn't guaranteed, but
the chances of one go up dramatically, especially at short ranges.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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