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Message no. 1
From: Greg Wright <greg.wright@*******.CO.UK>
Subject: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:59:23 +0100
Any one thought about smartlinking melee weapons allowing you to use
them in close combat without looking allowing you to use two with no
modifiers?? Any rules that stop this being possible?
Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:03:04 -0600
Greg Wright wrote:
|
| Any one thought about smartlinking melee weapons allowing you to use
| them in close combat without looking allowing you to use two with no
| modifiers?? Any rules that stop this being possible?

First, you can't smart-link melee weapons by the rules.

Second, if you could I don't see how it could benefit you.
Smartlinking a gun works by putting a crosshair in your vision over
the point where your gun is pointing, so you don't have to sight down
the barrel of the gun to aim. Since you don't aim melee weapons...

Third, smartlinking a gun won't help if you're not looking at the
target. Smartlinking doesn't allow you to see from the perspective
of the gun.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:54:01 -0400
On Monday, May 12, 1997 at 11:59 AM Greg Wright wrote:

> Any one thought about smartlinking melee weapons allowing you to use
> them in close combat without looking allowing you to use two with no
> modifiers?? Any rules that stop this being possible?

Yes. First of all, how does a crosshair help you aim a melee weapon?
Second, since a smartlink puts a crosshair on the retina of your eye, you
MUST look at where you are aiming to get any benefit out of the smartlink.

If you want to use two melee weapons with no modifiers, try the paired
weapon skill from Fields of Fire.

Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:19:10 -0400
David Wrote:
>Third, smartlinking a gun won't help if you're not looking at the
>target. Smartlinking doesn't allow you to see from the perspective
>of the gun.

Unless you had a C.O.T. system, mounted on/in your gun. This would
pop up a window in your field of vision [user would also need an Image
Link to utilize], allowing you to see from the gun's POV. Would probably
take some practice to get used to the stereo images, but I don't imagine
that as a difficulty. For the non-cyber version, it could be linked into
a pair of shades. [Image link could also be used to receive vid phone
calls, remote video surveillance from hidden mini-cameras, etc.]
It would also allow you to target opponents around corners, etc.
[I'd impose a +2 to target numbers for any shots made using only the
gun's sighting system]. Better than getting you're head blown off :-].
Besides, if the person was smart anyway, they'd use a fiberoptic
lead to check out what's behind the corner, rather than providing a big,
fat target for that 4D6 init street sam with the itchy trigger finger.


Victor
Message no. 5
From: Tuvyah@***.COM
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 01:43:49 -0400
greg.wright@*******.CO.UK (Greg Wright) wrote:

>>Any one thought about smartlinking melee weapons allowing you to use
them in close combat without looking allowing you to use two with no
modifiers?? <<

Aside from any rules in the manual, it sounds like you've thought of this in
terms of target modifiers, but not in terms of world mechanics. In other
words, how would this work?

A smartlinked gun uses a computer to project the landing point of a bullet
based on the user's stance and hand-position. The landing point is then
projected on the user's field of vision.

But a gun is activated with a single push on the trigger, and the user must
keep his/her eye on the target at all times. A melee weapon like a katana has
a landing point that changes at each instant of the user's swing, and the
user has a pretty good sense of where it's going to land anyway -- he/she is
MUCH closer to the opponent with a sword than with a gun, and the weapon is
an extension of the arm -- the mind places where the blade is going to be
fairly accurately.

Why bother, and would the smartlink be as great a help as it is with a gun? I
doubt it.

--Smilin' Ted
"...who knows why he's smilin'."
Message no. 6
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:17:45 EDT
On Mon, 12 May 1997 16:59:23 +0100 Greg Wright
<greg.wright@*******.CO.UK> writes:
>Any one thought about smartlinking melee weapons allowing you to use
>them in close combat without looking allowing you to use two with no
>modifiers?? Any rules that stop this being possible?
>
For one, you have to be looking at your target, or else you suffer the
Blind/Absolute Darkness modifier (+8), don't get any sighting bonuses,
etc, etc. As for smartlinking melee weapons...how? Have you got any ideas
on doing this? I'd like to hear how you'd propose doing this, if only
because I cannot see any way of rationalizing this myself...

--
-Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 7
From: Dale Talbert <LuvsAmanda@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 03:29:25 -0400
In a message dated 97-05-14 03:19:46 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (L Canthros) writes:

<< For one, you have to be looking at your target, or else you suffer the
Blind/Absolute Darkness modifier (+8), don't get any sighting bonuses,
etc, etc. As for smartlinking melee weapons...how? Have you got any ideas
on doing this? I'd like to hear how you'd propose doing this, if only
because I cannot see any way of rationalizing this myself...
>>

I just thought of an idea...(scary, neh?). How about an Edge called Blind
Fighting? Or maybe have Blind Fighting as a PhysAd ability?
-Dale
Message no. 8
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 03:12:33 -1000
>Maybe a Blind Fighting Physad ability.
Check Awakenings. .5 to buy.

Brother-1. Decker for hire.
>Visit Dot's Deck Technologies! Just north of the Sea-TAC!
Message no. 9
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:27:33 -0400
Smartlinking melee weapons? What kind of munchkin doofus came up with
this idea?

Dust

P.S. *makes sounds of disgust and shakes head*
Message no. 10
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:11:04 EDT
On Wed, 14 May 1997 03:29:25 -0400 Dale Talbert <LuvsAmanda@***.COM>
writes:
>In a message dated 97-05-14 03:19:46 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (L Canthros)
<snippy>
>I just thought of an idea...(scary, neh?). How about an Edge called
Blind
>Fighting? Or maybe have Blind Fighting as a PhysAd ability?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Actually, Awakenings already did this, I think.

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 11
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:32:20 +1000
> >Fighting? Or maybe have Blind Fighting as a PhysAd ability?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Actually, Awakenings already did this, I think.
>

Yup, it's in there. It makes life an absolute bitch for the GM, because
darkness never imposes more than a +4 TN on the firer. I had the big
nasty of an adventure basically die because the players TN's for
shooting her were a flat 8 instead of 12.

Personally I'd like an errata restricting Blind fighting to melee weapons
only.... It really sucks how someone can shoot that acurately.

That reminds me; Do vision and situational modifiers impose a +ive TN to
melee combat? I would have thought that fighting in pitch-black darkness
would be a lot harder than if you could see your opponent clearly. (The
rules state a flat 4 TN, modified _only_ by the number of opponents)

I tried to introduce that kind of rule into my game, but the players all
bitched and whinged, and the TN stayed at 4 whether it was raining, dark,
etc, etc. (Never GM as a democracy)

Marty
Message no. 12
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:53:06 -0700
---Dale Talbert wrote:
>
> I just thought of an idea...(scary, neh?). How about an Edge called
Blind
> Fighting? Or maybe have Blind Fighting as a PhysAd ability?

I have it as a special skill in my game:

Blind Fighting
Type: Combat Skill
This skill represents intensive training in awareness and spatial
recognition. It allows the trained warrior to maneuver adeptly in
darkness or near darkness. A skill test requires a complex action for
the character to orient himself. Every two successes will offset one
point of visiblity modifier while in melee combat, if the surrounding
environment is extremely familiar to the character (his apartment,
office, etc.) the successes work on a one-to-one ratio. Blind Fighting
can also offset visibility modifiers to ranged attacks within a
distance of the skill rating in meters.

The bonuses will last until the end of the combat or enounter.

Changes to the enviroment in which the character is fighting (new
opponents entering the fight, moving to a different room, change in
lighting, etc.) will negate the bonuses and require a new skill test.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 13
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 07:03:40 -0600
Dust wrote:
|
| Smartlinking melee weapons? What kind of munchkin doofus came up with
| this idea?
|
| Dust
|
| P.S. *makes sounds of disgust and shakes head*

Dust, when you first started roleplaying, how many doofus mistakes
and ideas did you come up with? When I started roleplaying I came up
with some doozies. The person who posted the idea could be somewhat
new to roleplaying. Calling him/her a doofus is not going to help
them.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 14
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:43:10 +0000
> > >Fighting? Or maybe have Blind Fighting as a PhysAd ability?
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Actually, Awakenings already did this, I think.
> >
> Personally I'd like an errata restricting Blind fighting to melee weapons
> only.... It really sucks how someone can shoot that acurately.
That seems reasonable enough, but I do not see that much of the
problem either... since it specifically mention blind fire, it seems
it is also intended for firearms. But by all means, make a house rule
on it. It's not unreasonable either way.

> That reminds me; Do vision and situational modifiers impose a +ive TN to
> melee combat? I would have thought that fighting in pitch-black darkness
> would be a lot harder than if you could see your opponent clearly. (The
> rules state a flat 4 TN, modified _only_ by the number of opponents)
Black Book rules:
P. 101:
Melee modifiers table:

Visibility impaired: Consult the Visibility Table (P 89).
(And a number of other modifiers).
P 102: Elaborations:
Visibility Impaired: Consult the Visibility Table, using the
modifiers at half their value, rounding down, except for full
darkness.

> I tried to introduce that kind of rule into my game, but the players all
> bitched and whinged, and the TN stayed at 4 whether it was raining, dark,
> etc, etc. (Never GM as a democracy)
Throw the book at them.


Rune
--
"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."
Message no. 15
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:33:29 -0400
I apologize for calling the person who thought of smart linking melee
weapons a doofus.

Dust

P.S. I still think it's a stupid munchkin idea.
Message no. 16
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 10:08:28 -0600
[snip: smart linked melee weapons]

Take a look at the tactical computer. That keeps track of targets
that you can't see (or aren't looking at). I don't know if it'll do
what you want though (and it's expensive as hell, in both essence and
money).

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:50:14 +0100
David Buehrer said on 10:08/16 May 97...

> Take a look at the tactical computer. That keeps track of targets
> that you can't see (or aren't looking at). I don't know if it'll do
> what you want though (and it's expensive as hell, in both essence and
> money).

If you add in some cheap accessories (low-light, thermographic, etc.)
you have a really good piece of cyberware that can seriosuly increase the
number of dice you roll for attacking someone, as well as your initiative
(though it won't increase your maximum initaitive).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
In another place, in another time, I'd be driving trucks
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 18
From: BulletShower <nmatausc@****.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:57:40 +1000
Said Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG> in a very friendly way:

> Smartlinking melee weapons? What kind of munchkin doofus came up with
> this idea?
> *makes sounds of disgust and shakes head*


Come on, Dust. [shakes his head]

The person who came up with that idea is as much munchkin as anybody
actually allowing smartlinking or cyberware in general.
There´s nothing especially munchkin about it.
I´d rather call [ducks down to avoid thwappings] initiates or, even
better, physads, and stuff like that munchkin.
Close (melee) combat is helplessly out-of-date in the 2050s, where
every Joe Sixpack can buy a gun.


:)
BulletShower


__________________________________________________________________________=
____
Wanna know more about DICELESS ROLEPLAYING, and some
SHADOWRUN stuff? Then jack into http://www.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~nmat=
ausc
(and I_m getting mad if this sig disappears again (GROWLS) )
Message no. 19
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 02:29:46 -1000
>physads and stuff munchkin...
Not all physads are into the close combat. If you check the tables
you'll see that firearms can be boosted for 1 magic point, and some folk
take that to the extreme.

Brother-1. Decker for hire.
"Black IC!! You eeediot!! You bloated code!!
You sick little program!! I will DELETE YOU!!!!"
Message no. 20
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <Dreadnaut1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Smart Linked Melee Weapons
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:26:11 -0400
In a message dated 97-05-20 11:18:24 EDT, Brother-1 wrote:

<< >physads and stuff munchkin...
Not all physads are into the close combat. If you check the tables
you'll see that firearms can be boosted for 1 magic point, and some folk
take that to the extreme. >>

Nope. The Gunnery maniacs are better. Think Zen archer with an Assault
Cannon. See the target, feel the target, be one with the target. Great, now
vaporize the target.

Later-

Duncan

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