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From:	Hamish Laws <h_laws@**********.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Fri, 29 Jul 1994 13:11:58 +1000

Message no. 1 Eve Writes
>Phil sayeth:
>
>>Here endeth the theology discussion for today :)
>

Lots of stuff on Snakes and Spiders Deleted.

It may not be instinctive to fear snakes but it's a damn good idea
to be cautious around them. Ditto for spiders. I tend to kill spiders for
the very simple reason that there are a few species in Tasmania which cause
severe problems involving, basically ulceration over most of the limb
bitten, and are damn difficult to treat, hence if I see a spider I
generally kill it
[btw could be interesting in SR stats no?].
I'm much less worried about snakes because they rarely come into a
house if the doors are kept closed and are easier to see. However one SR
group I know off allowed phobia's instead of allergies, I thought the idea
might be worth passing on and, if anyone wants them I'll try and get hold
of the exact rules used.

Oh by the way, I imagine the karma of other animal would probably
be based upon pro survival/anti-survival behaviour for the species.
ie a cat eating it's kittens is very bad karma
while a cat which gives its life in an attempt to save its is good
karma.

*************************************************
There has to be an optimist around here somewhere
*************************************************

Hamish Laws

From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Thu, 28 Jul 1994 23:26:36 +0100

Message no. 2 Snakes are kool.
Spiders are creepy and crunch good under my boot.

What more do you need :-)

(actually, I have a strong phobia of both spiders and just about anything
with more than 2x the number of legs I have, especially if they are
creepy).

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else, dammit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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From:	Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject:	Re: Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Fri, 29 Jul 1994 14:30:30 +1000

Message no. 3 Robert A. Hayden writes:

> (actually, I have a strong phobia of both spiders and just about anything
> with more than 2x the number of legs I have, especially if they are
> creepy).

Yeah, me too.

But then, I have a large leg collection. And some of those legs are
damn creepy.

luke

From:	Eve Forward <ez019741@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Fri, 29 Jul 1994 01:39:37 -0700

Message no. 4 Hamish says:

>It may not be instinctive to fear snakes but it's a damn good idea
>to be cautious around them. Ditto for spiders. I tend to kill spiders for

Yes, and it's a damn good idea to be cautious around dogs and horses too.
Horses count for a lot more accidents and fatalities in the US each year
than snakes ever do. Dog bites are more common than snake bites too.
But you don't often see people run screaming from a cute puppy or a
pony.
It's a good idea to be cautious around *any* animal. Even the
ones we normally think of as cute and harmless can be dangerous if you
act stupid around them. I can cite you a page and a half of examples
if you really want.
Caution is a fine thing. I treat most strange animals, including
people, with caution. Caution is fine. It's blind, unreasoning hatered,
fear, and prejudice leading to senseless killing to which I object.

-E

From:	Enos Michel CDT <x62674f3@******.USMA.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Fri, 29 Jul 1994 20:23:42 EDT

Message no. 5 Snake shamen? Cool!

I personally detest snakes, and stay away from them whenever possible, but the
real problem is not the snakes, it's the way people view them. A few days ago I
killed a very large Black Racer (I'm at New cadet Basic Training as a squad
leader right now, the snake was at least 5 1/2 feet long and a good 2" thick in
at the middle), not because it was a real threat, but because I was worried
that one of the 130+ new cadets would antogonize it until it bit someone, or it
would crawl into someones tent seeking a little warmth, and before you know it,
someone's in shock and I'm filling out paperwork ad nauseium.
A snake shaman should be very reclusive, probably nocturnal, and (big
roleplaying point) be very misunderstood, or feared. This could lead to all
sorts of cool scenarios (local gangsters want to off the weirdo who lives in
the basement). From what I've seen, snakes just want to be left alone, They are
very protective, and will respond violently to trespassers. I just don't like
them at all-they scare the hell out of me.

____
|\ /| |__ MIKE ENOS | "Who's the more foolish, the fool
| \/ | | CDT Sgt, USCC | or the fool who follows him?"
| | |___ Company F-3 | Obi-Wan Kenobi

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From:	"Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Fri, 29 Jul 1994 19:34:25 +0100

Message no. 6 Uh . . .

How do you get net access at basic training? I mean, I don't think the
military has gotten THAT soft since I was in....

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else, dammit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**

From:	Eve Forward <ez019741@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Fri, 29 Jul 1994 18:19:30 -0700

Message no. 7 Mike:

> A few days ago I
killed a very large Black Racer...
(..)
> not because it was a real threat, but because I was worried
>that one of the 130+ new cadets would antogonize it until it bit someone, or it
>would crawl into someones tent seeking a little warmth,
(etc)

Sigh. Where was this snake? In view of the word "tent" I assume you were
all camping out somewhere. Probably in the snake's "turf", so to speak.
You go to where a snake is, you find a snake, and you kill it. A black racer,
no less, a species that is utterly non-venomous and really prefers frogs
to cadets.
Next time, try this. Chances are, if you've got 130+ brave young
cadets out in the field, at least one of them (and probably more) will have
had some childhood experience catching snakes. Why didn't you ask one of them
to catch it and take it out of the camp and let it go?
I like FASA's Snake Shaman write-up a lot. I hope it's true to
Native American beliefs.

>From what I've seen, snakes just want to be left alone

Yes, I agree with this

> They are
>very protective

Protective of what? Only examples I know of "protective" in snakes is they
will protect themselves, and pythons and king cobras will both guard their
eggs.

>and will respond violently to trespassers.

Uh-huh. They'll run away pretty violently. Rattlesnakes and some of the
other heavy venomous snakes will indeed "hold their ground" and hiss
and display etc, but that's because they aren't able to move as fast as
the slimmer ones. If you just walk away from them, I doubt very much that
they'll chase after you and run you down.

-E

From:	Enos Michel CDT <x62674f3@******.USMA.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Fri, 29 Jul 1994 21:34:48 EDT

Message no. 8 Fear not, we're not that soft...

I'm a squad leader _for_ the new cadets. I did CBT two years ago, and now I'm
enjoying all sorts of upperclass privileges-like having a computer, and
net access. When we're not out in the field we're in our normal Barracks (Very
nice by military standards, about average for a college dorm). Life here
returns to normal in a couple of weeks, school starts, the new cadets become
plebes (can you imagine being lower than a plebe?) and the rest of the upper
classes come back from summer assignments.

____
|\ /| |__ MIKE ENOS | "Who's the more foolish, the fool
| \/ | | CDT Sgt, USCC | or the fool who follows him?"
| | |___ Company F-3 | Obi-Wan Kenobi
WEST POINT- The Hudson Valley Home for Wayward Children
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P?, !L, !3, E?, N+, K-, W+>W++, M+(M), !V, -po+, Y+>++, t+(t+++), 5-, j++,
R(+), G'(''''), !tv, b++(+++), D++, B--, e+>++, u**, h--, f+, r+, n---, y+*

From:	Hamish Laws <h_laws@**********.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: Snakes and Spiders
Date:	Mon, 1 Aug 1994 10:35:15 +1000

Message no. 9 Eve Writes

>Hamish says:
>
SNIP
> Caution is a fine thing. I treat most strange animals, including
>people, with caution. Caution is fine. It's blind, unreasoning hatered,
>fear, and prejudice leading to senseless killing to which I object.
>

And you play Shadowrun?? : )

*************************************************
There has to be an optimist around here somewhere
*************************************************

Hamish Laws

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