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Message no. 1
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:33:59 +0200
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:33:56 +0200 (MET DST)

> Show us this speed deamon, put him on the list (or email it to me)
> I'ld be very interested in what all you added to him.

O.K. - here it comes:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Street Name: Snake, 22year old Street Samurai

Body: (6+0) 6
Quickness: (6+4) 10
Strength: (4+4) 8
Charisma: (3+0) 3
Intelligence: (6+0) 6
Willpower: (6+0) 6

Reaction: (8+7) 15
Initiative: 4D6+15

Combat Pool: 11 Karma Pool: 3

Cyberware:
Wired Reflexes 3
Cybereyes with:
- Flare Compensation
- Thermographic Vision
- Electronic Vision Mag. 3
- Rangefinder
Hearing Amplification
Damper
Smartlink (Alpha)
Fingertip Compartment (with Monofilament Whip)

Essence Left: 0 (on the brink of madness *grin*)

Bioware:
Muscle Augmentation 4
Trauma Damper
Enhanced Articulation
Reflex Recorder Firearms

Body Index: 4,45


Skills:
Firearms: (6+2) 8
Unarmed Combat (4+1) 5
Cyber Implant Weaponry (6+1) 7
Monofilament Whip (8+1) 9
Stealth (6+1) 7
Etiquette (Street) 1
English 8
City Speak

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


O.K. - I know he isn't finished yet and I'm sure you could definitely
upgrade him much more (he was working on getting a beta-grade Wired
Reflexes 3 when I stopped playing him, because the group died
away...) - but he's still quite unexperienced but already very
deadly. He's not as "tanky" as most other Samurais, but usually he's
faster than anyone else which gives him the possibilities to choose
what to do... if you play him really intelligent, he's a really tough
guy.

Any comments ?

Bye...
Georg


P.S. I LOVED the close encounter situations when he suddenly released
his monofilament whip and sliced enemies like butter... *evil grin*
Message no. 2
From: Jason Ustica <usticaj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:11:22 -0700
On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, Georg Greve wrote:

> Street Name: Snake, 22year old Street Samurai
>
> Body: (6+0) 6
> Quickness: (6+4) 10
> Strength: (4+4) 8
> Charisma: (3+0) 3
> Intelligence: (6+0) 6
> Willpower: (6+0) 6

This guy is a f**king genius! 6 Int and Wp?? Why is he running the
shadows?? He should be off designing spaceships and the sort!

This kind of characrter really brings out my hatred of people who max
out their Int *just* to reap the Reaction bonus. I realize this
character's whole mission in life is to be Mr. Quick and Wiley, but gimme
a break. About 95% of the poeple I see who do this just love the numbers
they generate for Initiative, but, uh oh, you want me to what? Roleplay
based on my high Int stat? Uhhh... I gotta go.

> Reaction: (8+7) 15
> Initiative: 4D6+15

Puhleeeeaze!

> Combat Pool: 11 Karma Pool: 3
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That phenominal Wp comes into play here. Wouldn't want to have your
Speedster caught without some Combat Pool leftover, would ya? But when it
comes to roleplaying that WP, uhhh... I'm gonna go refill my drink, tell
me when this roleplaying crap is over.

> Cyberware:
> Wired Reflexes 3
> Cybereyes with:
> - Flare Compensation
> - Thermographic Vision
> - Electronic Vision Mag. 3
> - Rangefinder
> Hearing Amplification
> Damper
> Smartlink (Alpha)
> Fingertip Compartment (with Monofilament Whip)
>
> Essence Left: 0 (on the brink of madness *grin*)

Good template for a mad *scientist*. Unfortunately I think this character
has been wasted on the mundane task of killing lots of
poeple/things/creatures/etc.

> Bioware:
> Muscle Augmentation 4
> Trauma Damper
> Enhanced Articulation
> Reflex Recorder Firearms
>
> Body Index: 4,45
>
>
> Skills:
> Firearms: (6+2) 8
> Unarmed Combat (4+1) 5
> Cyber Implant Weaponry (6+1) 7
> Monofilament Whip (8+1) 9
> Stealth (6+1) 7
> Etiquette (Street) 1
> English 8
> City Speak

Jesus, is there anything in this character that ISN'T combat releated???

> but he's still quite unexperienced but already very deadly.

I would've never guessed.

> Any other comments?

I'm not attacking you personally, as I have no idea how you or your group
plays. However, I've seen this type of character too many times to let
this pass without comment. I can't stand it when people create characters
with stats, cyberware, and skills desgined *just* to reap combat benefits.
Sure, I'm all for Street Sam types, but not even the hardest Street Sam is
centered *solely* on combat. Does this chraracter have a background of
any sort? Or is he just another collection of numbers that can off those
pesky securtiy guards in droves?

--
* Jason Ustica * Coming to you from Lancaster, CA * GO L.A. KINGS!! *
* Email: usticaj@****.com * WWW: http://www.av.qnet.com/~usticaj *
Message no. 3
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:03:29 +0200
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:03:26 +0200 (MET DST)

> This guy is a f**king genius! 6 Int and Wp?? Why is he running the
> shadows?? He should be off designing spaceships and the sort!

He got the Int 6, because he is going on PERCEPTION. He isn't the
tank-type Street Samurai and so he needs to see/percieve things faster
and better than anyone else does.
And by the way: Have you ever imagined that not all intelligent people
design spaceships ??? Very often there is something that hinders
people becoming what they could have become - but that would have
something to do with roleplaying and reality, so I better don't try to
explain it to you.

> Jesus, is there anything in this character that ISN'T combat releated???

Yes, the story. But you got to SURVIVE first to be able to learn
skills that aren't combat related. This character is definitely NOT
unvincable - he's just a damned good Samurai who's long on quickness
and perception and short on being able to take many hits.

> I'm not attacking you personally, as I have no idea how you or your group
> plays. However, I've seen this type of character too many times to let
> this pass without comment. I can't stand it when people create characters
> with stats, cyberware, and skills desgined *just* to reap combat benefits.
> Sure, I'm all for Street Sam types, but not even the hardest Street Sam is
> centered *solely* on combat. Does this chraracter have a background of
> any sort? Or is he just another collection of numbers that can off those
> pesky securtiy guards in droves?

He has got a three pages long background story how he became what he
is now, but I definitely don't want to post it, because you don't even
want to consider that anyone else could be a roleplayer, too.
People like you always say "That's not a usual guy !!! Munchkin !!!"
and start throwing stones (just like in the good old middle
ages). Have you ever considered that there COULD be some extraordinary
characters out there ? Why not playing one of those once ??? I've got
real kick-ass characters and absolute loser-characters, both are fun
playing. Why the hell should I only play characters that YOU consider
characters worth playing ?
If you don't like it it's your own problem, but I wanted to see how
fast and deadly a Street Samurai could become and how it is to play
one of those, that's why I created Snake. There are still LOTS of
possibilities how you could improve this character.

By the way: There were archetypes posted here that had even DELTA
grade Cyberware - that is what I would consider maxing out
numbers. Why didn't you react the same way when they were posted ?

O.K. - I calmed down a bit by now, so long...

Georg
Message no. 4
From: Quicksilver <jhurley1@******.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:18:14 -0400
>
> > This guy is a f**king genius! 6 Int and Wp?? Why is he running the
> > shadows?? He should be off designing spaceships and the sort!
>
> He got the Int 6, because he is going on PERCEPTION. He isn't the

[Big Snip]

OK. The original poster of Snake had it right. Intelligence is the most
misnamed of the six SR stats. It should rightly be called Perception.
Intelligence as most of us are used to seeing as a stat does not exist in
SR - as a stat. Intelligence is measured by how many skills you have,
and by their rating. "A stupid character does not necessarily have a low
intelligence, he has low skill ratings." (From SRII character creation.
I don't have the books right in front of me.) Furthermore, what is the
most common test that uses Int? A PERCEPTION test. Int governs two or
three things in SRII: One, reaction time (via contripution to combat pool
and reaction); two, observation (via perception tests); and three, memory
(by default, as there is nothing else appropriate, and most memory tests
are resolved by Int tests).

Remember, Holmes has a huge Int, Einstein did not necesarily.
Message no. 5
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:41:44 -0400
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>>>>> "JU" == Jason Ustica <usticaj@****.COM> writes:

JU> This guy is a f**king genius!

He's not a genius, he's just very bright with exceptional reflexes.
Intelligence in the conventional sense of what you know is represented by
skills, not attributes. Albert Einstein, a certified genius, had a Physics
skill in the 8-10 range, yet his Int was 2 or at most 3 -- he was the
prototypical absent-minded professor.


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--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ head.
Message no. 6
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:34:20 GMT
> From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
>
> >>>>> "JU" == Jason Ustica <usticaj@****.COM> writes:
>
> JU> This guy is a f**king genius!
>
> He's not a genius, he's just very bright with exceptional reflexes.
> Intelligence in the conventional sense of what you know is represented by
> skills, not attributes. Albert Einstein, a certified genius, had a Physics
> skill in the 8-10 range, yet his Int was 2 or at most 3 -- he was the
> prototypical absent-minded professor.
>
>
yes aiming int attribute nearer perception (as FASA finally sorted
out in ED which has perception rather than int).
Other note is see the corp scientist contact, thats really 'bright',
int 8 (yes that is 2 over max, remember the rules for post max up to
*1.5) and skills at a similar level if memory serves. That genius, or
at least close. As to genius level skills well there is someone in
prime runners with chess at 15! [ignoring the great dragon and
sorcery at 25 etc ( no thats not an error)]

>
Mark
Message no. 7
From: "SGt. Pepper" <GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:18:19 EDT
On Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:41:44 -0400 Stainless Steel Rat said:
>
>He's not a genius, he's just very bright with exceptional reflexes.
>Intelligence in the conventional sense of what you know is represented by
>skills, not attributes. Albert Einstein, a certified genius, had a Physics
>skill in the 8-10 range, yet his Int was 2 or at most 3 -- he was the
>prototypical absent-minded professor.
>
Not to mention dyslexic, to which he credits his discovery of relativity.
He also failed Algebra the first time he took it. Insight vs. Intelligence

"I MAY BE SANE BUT I'M CRAZIER THAN YOU" O O
NOSALGIA ISN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE. ^
SOMEONE WHO THINKS LOGICALLY IS A NICE _____/
CONTRAST TO THE REAL WORLD.
THERE IS ALWAYS ONE MORE IMBECILE THAN YOU COUNTED ON.
IF YOU CAN SMILE WHEN THINGS GO WRONG, YOU HAVE SOMEONE IN
MIND TO BLAME.
COMMON SENSE REALLY AIN'T ALL THAT COMMON.

GeekCodev2.1

GM/ED d--(++) H+ s+: g+ p? au+ a26 w+ v-(*) c+ u- P? !L !3 E? !N k- w+
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Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:55:33 +0200
>OK. The original poster of Snake had it right. Intelligence is the most
>misnamed of the six SR stats. It should rightly be called Perception.
[snip]
>Furthermore, what is the
>most common test that uses Int? A PERCEPTION test.

And that is what gets most new players confused. "Roll a Perception Test" is
usualyl followed by puzzling looks at the character sheet, followed by more
puzzling looks at the GM. Untl you tell them "Oh, damn. That means 'Roll an
_Intelligence_ test."

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We're definitely not normal --Hillary, in the movie "Fun"
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 9
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 11:23:37 -0400
On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> And that is what gets most new players confused. "Roll a Perception Test"
is
> usualyl followed by puzzling looks at the character sheet, followed by more
> puzzling looks at the GM. Untl you tell them "Oh, damn. That means 'Roll an
> _Intelligence_ test."

Yeah, until you get a character who has a special skill in
observation that's *higher* than his Intelligence. Then you have to be
really specific as to what you're asking for.

Marc
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 10:22:46 +0100
> From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>

> Yeah, until you get a character who has a special skill in
> observation that's *higher* than his Intelligence. Then you have to be
> really specific as to what you're asking for.

I have always managed to avoid players getting skills like Observation or
Awareness or similar things with different names. I think it
half-contradicts the SR game system -- Intelligence is used to notice
things, and if you make it a skill you are effectively replacing an
Attribute with a skill.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De cursus "Omgaan met teleurstellingen" gaat wederom niet door.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 11
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:38:10 -0400
On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Gurth wrote:

> > From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
>
> > Yeah, until you get a character who has a special skill in
> > observation that's *higher* than his Intelligence. Then you have to be
> > really specific as to what you're asking for.
>
> I have always managed to avoid players getting skills like Observation or
> Awareness or similar things with different names. I think it
> half-contradicts the SR game system -- Intelligence is used to notice
> things, and if you make it a skill you are effectively replacing an
> Attribute with a skill.

While perception-type skills can be increased (reflecting
training to become more aware of your environment), the increase of said
skills does not change the other facets of the Intelligence attribute,
namely the ability to just figure stuff out ("cipherin'") and one's
powers of recall.
If the players are stuck on something they can't figure out, I'll
occasionally call for an Intelligence check, reflecting the fact that
character may know things that the player doesn't or may have had
learning experiences that the player has not (or may be quicker on the
uptake than the player :). Also, any memory checks come off of the
Intelligence attribute itself.
Also, the use of an observation or awareness skill is an active
thing. If somebody sneaks up on you when you're not paying attention, or
not active observing things, the default number of dice you roll is your
Intelligence. So while you can up an observation skill, it doesn't
"replace" the attribute at all.

Marc
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 11:50:37 +0100
> From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>

> Also, the use of an observation or awareness skill is an active
> thing. If somebody sneaks up on you when you're not paying attention, or
> not active observing things, the default number of dice you roll is your
> Intelligence. So while you can up an observation skill, it doesn't
> "replace" the attribute at all.

I hadn't thought of it that way... This way it is actually useful and
within "SR logic" to have such a skill without it having to be based on
Intelligence (since SR skils are not based on attributes, my reasoning went
that it would replace an attribute if you took Observation skill). Of
course it is rather pointless to have an Intelligence Attribute higher
than your Perception skill :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De cursus "Omgaan met teleurstellingen" gaat wederom niet door.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 13
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Snake (Speed Samurai)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:33:12 +0100
At 11.50 26/09/95 +0100, you wrote:
>Of course it is rather pointless to have an Intelligence Attribute higher
>than your Perception skill :)
>
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

No, making perception tests using the skill should have lower target numbers.

Bye, Paolo
------------------------------------------------------------------
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider http://www.interware.it/users/paolo
Trieste, Italy
Ph. +39-40-774488
------------------------------------------------------------------
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