| From: | s c rose <scrose@****.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Sniper's expanded |
| Date: | Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:55:46 -0600 |
>
> In article <34B60F92.7149D44B@****.com>, s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
> writes
> >My
> >military experiance is not based on the europe model but in the south
> >and central american mode of fighting under trained nationalist or semi
> >trained para miliary guards.
>
> Whereas mine was provided by veterans of the South Atlantic, of the
> Gulf, of Bosnia and of Northern Ireland (the last being one where they
> were far more likely to recieve than to give sniper fire).
This would explain a great deal about the viewpoint you have a what
snipers do.
> I can see why you have a different viewpoint, and it's from a theatre I
> know little about. I'm not telling you you're wrong for that theatre:
> merely that some of your assertions would have got you injured,
> captured or forced to abort in the Falklands and Bosnia. NI, you've got
> a point, but that's a terrorist rather than a military campaign.
I even said I would abort if I found myself in those situations. We had
tons of cover but very little in the way of fortified positions. It was
always better to move to the next location to engage a second time. That
second shot could and would get you all the things you mentioned.
Stealth and suprise where our best tools keep them guessing about where
you are was the name of the game.
> >We are still talking one body one bullet and aimed shots and you think
> >staying in one place and fireing five times is not going to get you dead
> >go ahead and try it I'll even fly in for the memorial service.
I ended up attending two memorial services because someone decided the
position they where in was good enough to engage more than one target
from.
> Similar situations on both sides applied in Bosnia. Snipers on all sides
> frequently worked from fortified positions.
I do know about the M2's the goofs in El Salivado I guess I did not a do
not consider those to be sniper operations but over watches and ambushes
from fortified positions. That I would still want to aim the shots
and make each one count.
> You deal with the terrain and the conditions you are ordered to fight
> in. The rules are not the same for every situation. And you remember
> you're part of a team, not a solo artiste.
This I would agree with but many of the things you consider sniper
opperations are outside of the training I was given in this area.
Designated marksmen are not snipers due to the stealth factor which is
what you have decribed in great detail. The US Army and the Ranger
Regiments inparticular have a very concise and precise defination of
what snipers do and do not do.
>
> British Army snipers use the L96A1, which is bolt action. All you have
> is single shot. (a beautiful weapon BTW).
I've fired one on a range they are really nice. I made a 17mm three
round group at 450m with it. As you say a beautiful weapon by any
defination. The best I can do with an M16a2 is a slightly larger group
at 250-300m
> >I presonally would have and have aborted the mission if I found the intel I was
given
> >was that messed up.
>
> Enemy's coming through. Your orders are "delay them and inflict
> casualties". Aborting "because you got the wrong intelligence data" is
> not an option, unless you have a perverse desire to be court-martialled
> for cowardice.
I'd take the court-martial I have little to no desire to die because of
someone elses mistake.
To obay that type of order is a return mission. Getting killed doing
something silly in a poor tactical situation is not my idea of bravery.
My next of kin would get a nice flag and a medal coming home.
Death before dishonor looks good on paper but rings rather hollow when
you might be the one ending up dead or at the very least captured.
I was given a fieldgrade Artical 15 (Non judical punishment) for doing
something just like that got busted
from sgt(E5) to PFC(E3) for my trouble. I refused to engauge from what I
considered a poor tactical position. To many guards in the area to close
to my position. I would have ended up dead or in the hands of people who
have never heard of the concept of fair treatment of those captured or
they disregard it 90% of the time.
> Your definition of sniper work is too narrow, I fear.
Prehaps but it is not just mine it the one the US Army uses as well.
> >Why I'm not polite in outside of the net why should I sugar coat things
> >so you don't get offended.
>
> Because if you don't, we get offended. And instead of a friendly
> discussion we have a raucous argument. And that defeats the purpose of
> this mailing list.
My appoligy however I might still come off as gruff and abrupt in some
matters.
> So find some sugar, and be polite. Please?
hehehehehe I'll find the sugar but is polite required? I'm rude crude
and socially unacceptible and those
are some of my better points :)
> If we've got to delete your messages anyway, because you're incapable of
> polite debate, it's no loss...
I hope this post comes off as not so offensive Paul. At this point I've
begun to understand where you
have formed your opinions about sniper operations. Even if I happen
think you and prehaps the British Army
are including things that fall outside of the area of sniper operations
into the catagory.
Regards
