Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 23:27:37 -0500
Does adding Smart Materials reduce both the on- AND off-road the hadling
of ground vehicles?

Also When calcing Custom Engine costs how do you calc it?
For 2 levels is it
Powerplant cost * (1.25+.5)
or
Powerplant cost * 1.25 * (1.25+.5)
?

When it makes references to "Power Plant cost" is that JUST the cost from
the Engines table or does it also include engine mods like Speed increase
and accel increase, etc ... ?

Thanks :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 2
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:00:29 EDT
In a message dated 7/18/1998 11:35:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Also When calcing Custom Engine costs how do you calc it?
> For 2 levels is it
> Powerplant cost * (1.25+.5)
> or
>
This is the formula you are looking for, a modification of 3 levels would
be...

Cost * (1.25 + .5 + .5)

-K
Message no. 3
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 03:04:34 -0500
On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:00:29 EDT K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
>In a message dated 7/18/1998 11:35:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>>Also When calcing Custom Engine costs how do you calc it?
>>For 2 levels is it
>> Powerplant cost * (1.25+.5)
>> or

>This is the formula you are looking for, a modification of 3 levels
would
>be...
>
>Cost * (1.25 + .5 + .5)
>
>-K

Ok, thanks K, uhm but does this apply only to the engine or to the speed
/ Load / etc increase as well?

ie, I have a subcompact car with a gasoline engine ... I opt for 10
points increase and the add Turbocharging and one level of Custom Engine:
Speed (It's a tricked out Honda Civic 2 door hatchback ;) ... What is
the cost? of each component?

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 4
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:07:19 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-19 01:02:59 EDT, you write:

> > Also When calcing Custom Engine costs how do you calc it?
> > For 2 levels is it
> > Powerplant cost * (1.25+.5)
> > or
> >
> This is the formula you are looking for, a modification of 3 levels would
> be...
>
> Cost * (1.25 + .5 + .5)
>
but would that be the regular cost of the engine+ the cost of the engine X
(1.25+.5+.5)? or would that first 1.25 multiplier include the original cost of
the engine also?
Message no. 5
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:49:25 EDT
In a message dated 7/18/98 11:35:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Does adding Smart Materials reduce both the on- AND off-road the hadling
> of ground vehicles?

I've always taken it to mean both, so until the errata sheets come out and
something is said (like from Jon on this), I'd say it does both.

> Also When calcing Custom Engine costs how do you calc it?
> For 2 levels is it
> Powerplant cost * (1.25+.5)
> or
> Powerplant cost * 1.25 * (1.25+.5)
> ?

Use the first one you have .... the Power Plant COst x (1.25 + 0.5)

> When it makes references to "Power Plant cost" is that JUST the cost from
> the Engines table or does it also include engine mods like Speed increase
> and accel increase, etc ... ?

No, just the design point cost from the power plant tables.

-Herc
-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 6
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:03:07 EDT
In a message dated 7/19/98 3:24:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >This is the formula you are looking for, a modification of 3 levels
> would
> >be...
> >
> >Cost * (1.25 + .5 + .5)
> >
> >-K
>
> Ok, thanks K, uhm but does this apply only to the engine or to the speed
> / Load / etc increase as well?
>
> ie, I have a subcompact car with a gasoline engine ... I opt for 10
> points increase and the add Turbocharging and one level of Custom Engine:
> Speed (It's a tricked out Honda Civic 2 door hatchback ;) ... What is
> the cost? of each component?

When you are doing engine customization, the formula applies to all three
areas. You want to increase Speed, that adds more design points. You want
Accel to be increased, that also adds more design points. You want more Load,
you also add more design points. And by adding I mean that you are increasing
the maximum for each category, which you would later have to go back and
purchase, again.

-Herc
-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 7
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:17:45 EDT
In a message dated 7/19/98 10:08:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Schizi@***.COM writes:

> > This is the formula you are looking for, a modification of 3 levels would
> > be...
> >
> > Cost * (1.25 + .5 + .5)
> >
> but would that be the regular cost of the engine+ the cost of the engine X
> (1.25+.5+.5)? or would that first 1.25 multiplier include the original cost
> of
> the engine also?

The cost of engine customization is something totally in addition to the Base
Design Cost for the power plant, and is added onto the total design cost for
the vehicle.

-Herc
-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 8
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:34:40 -0500
On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:49:25 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 7/18/98 11:35:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
<SNIP>
>> Also When calcing Custom Engine costs how do you calc it?
>> For 2 levels is it
>> Powerplant cost * (1.25+.5)
>> or
>> Powerplant cost * 1.25 * (1.25+.5)
>> ?

>Use the first one you have .... the Power Plant COst x (1.25 + 0.5)

<SNIP>
>-Herc
>-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

now is the actual cost of 1 level of custom engine equal to power plant
x1.25 (Customizing the engine raise the engine price by 125%) or power
plant x.25 (Customizing the engine raise the engine price by 25%)?

And Turbo charging ... is the cost of adding Turbocharing (the Power
Plant cost *1.75) per level or does it raise the cost of the Power Plant
by 75% (and if so does it affect the price of Engine Customization?) per
level?

In other words, would a vehicle (no one in particular) with Turbocharging
would look like:
Power Plant Cost: 10
Turbocharging Level 1: 17.5
Turbocharging Level 2: 17.5
------
Total: 45

or would it look like:
Power Plant Cost: 10
Turbocharging Level 1: 7.5 (75% of Power Plant Cost)
Turbocharging Level 2: 13.125 (75% of [Power Plant + TC level 1 Costs])
------
Total: 30.625

Sorry, I can really see the wording go either way .... I hope the R2
Errata clears this up :/

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 9
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:44:02 -0500
On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:03:07 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 7/19/98 3:24:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>> >This is the formula you are looking for, a modification of 3 levels
would
>> >be...
>> >
>> >Cost * (1.25 + .5 + .5)
>> >
>> >-K

>> Ok, thanks K, uhm but does this apply only to the engine or to the
speed
>> / Load / etc increase as well?
>>
>> ie, I have a subcompact car with a gasoline engine ... I opt for 10
>> points increase and the add Turbocharging and one level of Custom
Engine:
>> Speed (It's a tricked out Honda Civic 2 door hatchback ;) ... What
is
>> the cost? of each component?

>When you are doing engine customization, the formula applies to all
three
>areas. You want to increase Speed, that adds more design points. You
want
>Accel to be increased, that also adds more design points. You want more
Load,
>you also add more design points. And by adding I mean that you are
increasing
>the maximum for each category, which you would later have to go back and
>purchase, again.
>
>-Herc
<SNIP Sig>

No, that's not what I was aksing ... I was asking if it the cost was
applied to the powerplant or to the powerplant+speed/load/accel/econ
improvements as well ... but you answered that in another post :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 10
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 02:34:15 EDT
In a message dated 7/19/1998 3:24:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Ok, thanks K, uhm but does this apply only to the engine or to the speed
> / Load / etc increase as well?
>
> ie, I have a subcompact car with a gasoline engine ... I opt for 10
> points increase and the add Turbocharging and one level of Custom Engine:
> Speed (It's a tricked out Honda Civic 2 door hatchback ;) ... What is
> the cost? of each component?
>
well, at that point, it could be viewed either way.

-I- usually just add everything into one category...

for instance, the car with three levels of modification (one for load and two
for speed lets say), would be like our running example (1.25 + .5 +.5).
However, I -COULD- see it as being ruled with the 1.25 taken as a multiplier
two times, with a >5 added to the one that has two levels of modification for
speed.

I was trying to be nice before, now I don't know.

And just think, we've finally come up with a way for a Helicopter to go
"Amphibious Operations", and we have to fix the thing
anyway...hmmm....pondering....

-K
Message no. 11
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 02:46:58 EDT
In a message dated 7/19/1998 10:08:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Schizi@***.COM writes:

> but would that be the regular cost of the engine+ the cost of the engine X
> (1.25+.5+.5)? or would that first 1.25 multiplier include the original cost
> of
> the engine also?
>
that is what the "1" is for in the 1.25. Otherwise you wind up with a very
strange, proportionally smaller, cost indeed...

-K
Message no. 12
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:22:14 EDT
In a message dated 7/19/1998 1:42:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >> Also When calcing Custom Engine costs how do you calc it?
> >> For 2 levels is it
> >> Powerplant cost * (1.25+.5)
> >> or
> >> Powerplant cost * 1.25 * (1.25+.5)
> >> ?
>
> >Use the first one you have .... the Power Plant COst x (1.25 + 0.5)
>
> <SNIP>
> >-Herc
> >-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
> now is the actual cost of 1 level of custom engine equal to power plant
> x1.25 (Customizing the engine raise the engine price by 125%) or power
> plant x.25 (Customizing the engine raise the engine price by 25%)?

The cost for the first level of improvement is Design Cost x 1.25, for every
additional level after the first, add another 0.5 to the 1.25.

> And Turbo charging ... is the cost of adding Turbocharing (the Power
> Plant cost *1.75) per level or does it raise the cost of the Power Plant
> by 75% (and if so does it affect the price of Engine Customization?) per
> level?

The cost for the Turbocharging is the Design Cost x 1.75, for the first level,
for ever level after the first, multiply the previous design cost for the
prior level by another 1.75.

I.E. Herc wants to give a Power Plant two levels of turbocharging. The
design cost for the Power Plant is 100. So, the design cost for having two
levels of Turbocharging is 100 x 1.75 (first level) x 1.75 (second level) =
307. So, the Turbocharging costs 307 design points, which is in addition to
the 100 base for the Power Plant.

> In other words, would a vehicle (no one in particular) with Turbocharging
> would look like:
> Power Plant Cost: 10
> Turbocharging Level 1: 17.5
> Turbocharging Level 2: 17.5
> ------
> Total: 45
>
> or would it look like:
> Power Plant Cost: 10
> Turbocharging Level 1: 7.5 (75% of Power Plant Cost)
> Turbocharging Level 2: 13.125 (75% of [Power Plant + TC level 1 Costs])
> ------
> Total: 30.625

Neither of your math is correct. It would be :
Power Plant Cost : 10
Turbcharging Level 1 = 1.75 x 10 = 17.5
Turbocharging Level 2 = 1.75 x 17.5 = 30.5 (rounded to 0.5)
Total Cost for Turbocharging = 48.5
Total Cost for Power Plant with Turbocharging (2) = 58.5

> Sorry, I can really see the wording go either way .... I hope the R2
> Errata clears this up :/

It took some doing to get it right here also, plus asking Jon was a major help
also.

-Herc
-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 13
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:43:44 -0400
Mike Bobroff wrote:
>> > This is the formula you are looking for, a modification of 3 levels
>>would
>> > be...
>> > Cost * (1.25 + .5 + .5)
>> but would that be the regular cost of the engine+ the cost of the engine X
>> (1.25+.5+.5)? or would that first 1.25 multiplier include the original
>>cost
>> of
>> the engine also?
>
>The cost of engine customization is something totally in addition to the Base
>Design Cost for the power plant, and is added onto the total design cost for
>the vehicle.

Right on.

>-Herc
>-------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

If anybody wants to question the rules, I recommend taking a look at
The Shop - people have pounded on it quite a bit over the months and
between long email discussions and asking Jon directly it's a very good
source for resolving disputes (and I'm not just saying that because I
wrote it - well, maybe ;-).

http://ojaste.ml.org/~ojastej/SRII/

James Ojaste

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Some (more) Rigger 2 Questions, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!