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Message no. 1
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 13:02:28 +1000
Matt Hufstetler writes:

> Why not just have the Sorcery Adept research the spell which allows them
> to see into the astral? That seems the logical choice. What else are
> they going to do?????

Why not just have the Sorcery Adept research the spell which allows them to
imbue astral perception abilities on sammies? :-) If you allow one, then the
other is possible. To perceive the astral plane (ie astral perception) you
need a specific genetic structure. Full blown magicians (hermetics and
shamans) have it, as do _certain_ adepts. Others do not. That's though, it's
life. You get the genes your parents gave you. Sorcery adepts can cast
spells, they have the correct genetic structures to allow them to channel
astral energies. They do not, however, have the appropriate genetic
structrues to allow them to switch voluntarily to astral perception. Bummer
for them. They get enough of a bonus as it is (spell casting is by far the
most useful magical ability).

But it is also a bit of a Game Balance thing. If it were possible to
research spells to allow perception onto the astral, then every mage and his
dog (ally) would be doing so. Then they would not have to stick their
proverbial astral necks out whenever they wanted to see the astral plane by
going dual natured. Who would ever use perception? And if a spell can
replace a magical ability, then why can't it replace other magical abilties?
Like an "Imbue with Spellcasting" spell. Great for the surprise trick on the
sammy. Or a spell which summons a spirit for you without you needing too.
Handy for a Sorcery Adept who couldn't normally do so. Spells can do things
not normally possible, but even they too have a limit.

--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
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b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 12:54:41 +0200
>Then they would not have to stick their
>proverbial astral necks out whenever they wanted to see the astral plane by
>going dual natured.

Er, how about making an Astral Perception spell that makes the subject
dual-natured? In that way it makes no sense for full magicians to use it
because it's more difficult for them (drain and everything), while the
sammie is suddenly vulnerable to that force 10 elemental that is standing in
front of him... If you're really nasty you make it a one-way opening: astral
space reaches the subject but the subject doesn't reach astral space...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat wilt ik nou effe kwijt!
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 3
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 08:00:51 -0400
>
> Matt Hufstetler writes:
>
> > Why not just have the Sorcery Adept research the spell which allows them
> > to see into the astral? That seems the logical choice. What else are
> > they going to do?????
>
> Why not just have the Sorcery Adept research the spell which allows them to
> imbue astral perception abilities on sammies? :-) If you allow one, then the
> other is possible. To perceive the astral plane (ie astral perception) you
> need a specific genetic structure. Full blown magicians (hermetics and
> shamans) have it, as do _certain_ adepts. Others do not. That's though, it's
> life. You get the genes your parents gave you. Sorcery adepts can cast
> spells, they have the correct genetic structures to allow them to channel
> astral energies. They do not, however, have the appropriate genetic
> structrues to allow them to switch voluntarily to astral perception. Bummer
> for them. They get enough of a bonus as it is (spell casting is by far the
> most useful magical ability).
>
> But it is also a bit of a Game Balance thing. If it were possible to
> research spells to allow perception onto the astral, then every mage and his
> dog (ally) would be doing so. Then they would not have to stick their
> proverbial astral necks out whenever they wanted to see the astral plane by
> going dual natured. Who would ever use perception? And if a spell can
> replace a magical ability, then why can't it replace other magical abilties?
> Like an "Imbue with Spellcasting" spell. Great for the surprise trick on
the
> sammy. Or a spell which summons a spirit for you without you needing too.
> Handy for a Sorcery Adept who couldn't normally do so. Spells can do things
> not normally possible, but even they too have a limit.

What I'm proposing is well within the rules here. Detection spell,
radical new sense I believe it was. Besides, as it is a detection spell,
you wouldn't gain any new powers with it. Quickening would still be out
of the question as you can't astrally percieve. As would CENTERING!

Matt 'Comatose Raspberry' Hufstetler
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt2778a
Internet: gt2778a@*****.gatech.edu
Message no. 4
From: Bob Ooton <topcat@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 18:47:52 -0500
>>Then they would not have to stick their
>>proverbial astral necks out whenever they wanted to see the astral plane by
>>going dual natured.

>Er, how about making an Astral Perception spell that makes the subject
>dual-natured? In that way it makes no sense for full magicians to use it
>because it's more difficult for them (drain and everything), while the
>sammie is suddenly vulnerable to that force 10 elemental that is standing in
>front of him... If you're really nasty you make it a one-way opening: astral
>space reaches the subject but the subject doesn't reach astral space...

In a word... *MUNCH!*

You're giving a guy a magic rating, basically. I'd almost let that into my
campaign IF it cost the mage all his magic points to make the other guy
astrally open.


-- Bob Ooton <topcat@******.net>
Message no. 5
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 01:56:27 +1000
Gurth writes:

> Er, how about making an Astral Perception spell that makes the subject
> dual-natured? In that way it makes no sense for full magicians to use it
> because it's more difficult for them (drain and everything), while the
> sammie is suddenly vulnerable to that force 10 elemental that is standing in
> front of him... If you're really nasty you make it a one-way opening: astral
> space reaches the subject but the subject doesn't reach astral space...

Too munchkinous. And it would completely redefine the astral security
business. Just think about it. A mere spell could provide you with many many
astrally present guards, who were also mean mother <that word>ers when it
came to physical combat. I think it requires just a teeny weeny little bit
more than a spell to grant someone an dual presence (sarcasm intended).

-----------------------
Matt Hufstetler writes:

> What I'm proposing is well within the rules here. Detection spell,
> radical new sense I believe it was.

You are however, breaking one of the tenets of the SR magic system. That is,
you cannot cross the physical-astral boundary except under special
conditions. Spellcasting is not one of them. (That is not quite a quote, but
damn close to it.) Your suggested spell would allow the recipient to receive
astral information without first carrying out the required perception or
projection to do so. As I said above, the astral security industry would be
markedly redefined. Not quite as badly as Gurths suggestion, but it would
not be at all like it is now that's for sure. It would be a spell which
duplicates a magical ability, which would therefore make the magical ability
absolutely pointless. With a spell like this, there would be very limited
use for astral perception, which makes the ability redundant, which changes
the dynamics of the game considerably. You just made a magical power
obsolete.

> Besides, as it is a detection spell, you wouldn't gain any new powers with
> it.

Only (!) the ability to perceive the astral eh? As if that isn't enough!

> Quickening would still be out of the question as you can't astrally
> percieve. As would CENTERING!

Side note, only Centering and Spellcasting would be out, Centering vs Drain
and Penalties does not require the magician to be astrally perceiving.

I think you're stretching the boundaries of the capabilities of Detection
spells a bit too far with an "Astral Perception" spell. Allowing mundanes
access (even limited access such as only visual information) to the astral
is not something a mere spell ought to be capable of.

--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 6
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:48:14 GMT
>
> > What I'm proposing is well within the rules here. Detection spell,
> > radical new sense I believe it was.
>
> You are however, breaking one of the tenets of the SR magic system. That is,
> you cannot cross the physical-astral boundary except under special
> conditions. Spellcasting is not one of them.
>
> Only (!) the ability to perceive the astral eh? As if that isn't enough!
>
This would have to be very limited. Best thing i can suggest is have
a look at Earthdawn's first circle wizard spell that allows astral
detection. I cannot remember it's name but this thing will detect
astral beings and allow you to target them, but it is NOT astral
perception or even close to it, info is very limited and the range is
in the 10's of yards maximum, not LOS.

> > Quickening would still be out of the question as you can't astrally
> > percieve. As would CENTERING!
>
> Side note, only Centering and Spellcasting would be out, Centering vs Drain
> and Penalties does not require the magician to be astrally perceiving.
>
I agree, FASA still have not gone through the metamagic bit by bit on
this one, common sense says, and descriptions in the novels agree
that some abilities, eg centering vs drain, masking (at least basic
uses) and shielding (as per GR2 , the HAGA idea would need percept)
should not need astral perception. Quickening, dispelling, Anchoring,
e.t.c. do seem to need percept.

> I think you're stretching the boundaries of the capabilities of Detection
> spells a bit too far with an "Astral Perception" spell. Allowing mundanes
> access (even limited access such as only visual information) to the astral
> is not something a mere spell ought to be capable of.
>
> --
> Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
>
>
Mark
Message no. 7
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:14:50 +1000
Mark Steedman writes:

> > Only (!) the ability to perceive the astral eh? As if that isn't enough!
>
> This would have to be very limited. Best thing i can suggest is have
> a look at Earthdawn's first circle wizard spell that allows astral
> detection. I cannot remember it's name but this thing will detect
> astral beings and allow you to target them, but it is NOT astral
> perception or even close to it, info is very limited and the range is
> in the 10's of yards maximum, not LOS.

Well, when the level of mana in SR reaches near that of ED, then I guess
such a spell will be feasable. Give it a couple of thousand years...

But if you gave it henous drain, and lots of negatives, poor range, very
limited info and all the rest, then perhaps it would be a managable spell.
But just what do you mean by the "...allow you to target..."? I should hope
this does not mean that the spell grants the ability to actually interact
with the astral to the recipient.

> I agree, FASA still have not gone through the metamagic bit by bit on
> this one, common sense says, and descriptions in the novels agree
> that some abilities, eg centering vs drain, masking (at least basic
> uses) and shielding (as per GR2 , the HAGA idea would need percept)
> should not need astral perception. Quickening, dispelling, Anchoring,
> e.t.c. do seem to need percept.

I would argue that Masking, which is the ability to hide _astral_ auras,
would require perception on the part of the initiate to perform (or at least
require the initiate to be _able_ to astrally perceive, even though he might
not need to do it every time to use Masking). After all, you can't exactly
do alot to something you can't even picture yourself. But the NAGA has
overruled me on this, since PAs (even those without Astral Perception) can
use Masking. Oh well, guess I'll go with what FASA says. Shielding is a bit
iffy. If you rationalise it as the magician modifying (or similar) the
incoming spell to lessen its effect, then it could quite well require astral
perception. Without that direct knowledge of the spell (ie viewing its aura)
the magician cannot more effectively defend against it. But anyway, I'll go
with what the book says, it too can easily be justified. (Although if I ever
feel the need to lessen the abilities of initiates, requiring them to be
astrally active while using their metamagical abilities is probably a good
way to do it.)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 8
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:38:00 -0400
>
> Mark Steedman writes:
>
> > > Only (!) the ability to perceive the astral eh? As if that isn't enough!
> >
> > This would have to be very limited. Best thing i can suggest is have
> > a look at Earthdawn's first circle wizard spell that allows astral
>
> Well, when the level of mana in SR reaches near that of ED, then I guess
> such a spell will be feasable. Give it a couple of thousand years...

O.k. First off, I have read through ED once. The book is at home so this
is coming from memory.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ED to the point where magic is
far along on it's starting to wind down again, so such a degree that most
horrors and such can't remain?
Second, isn't the astral plane so polluted with such a heavy background
count, or some such thing, that it is actually dangerous to percieve?
So much so that this spell is an actual necessity to survive?
Third, what would the astral percption spell cause for it to be unbalancing?



Matt 'Comatose Raspberry' Hufstetler
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt2778a
Internet: gt2778a@*****.gatech.edu
Message no. 9
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 17:36:18 +1000
Matt Hufstetler writes:

> O.k. First off, I have read through ED once. The book is at home so this
> is coming from memory.

Well, I'll admit I have yet to actually read any of the ED books.

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ED to the point where magic is
> far along on it's starting to wind down again, so such a degree that most
> horrors and such can't remain?

I don't know. Does it? Any ED gurus out there?

> Second, isn't the astral plane so polluted with such a heavy background
> count, or some such thing, that it is actually dangerous to percieve?
> So much so that this spell is an actual necessity to survive?

That might well be the case.

> Third, what would the astral percption spell cause for it to be
> unbalancing?

OK, that depends on just how you define the term you just used. Do you mean
"astral perception" as in the actual ability Astral Perception (available to
full magicians, and some adepts), or do you mean something more akin to a
spell which allows them to "look but not touch"? If it is the first, then it
blatantly gives away something which is far too powerful. The second is a
much more manageable approach. Although I still feel it gives a bit too much
away (after all, magically active people pay for their ability to run around
on the astral and not be able to be seen by those on the physical, while this
will allow those stuck on the physical to do exactly the same back to the
astral guys - see everything, but be unable to be touched. And it allows it
for considerably less cost.) Have you heard the phrase
"knowledge/information is power"? I think it applies here. The ability to
perceive alternate dimesnions should not really be avialable to those who
have not payed for it during character generation, it is unfair to those who
have to allow it. Also think of the changes to astral security which would
(have) occurred. A regular grunt with this spell on him, and a net gun with
"bacteria" ammo could way too easily capture an astrally projecting
magician. And seriously, you're not going to tell me that a year after
allowing this spell, you won't allow a similar spell with the added phrase
"Same as the above spell, but allows full astral interaction." It's a knife
edge. Allow one, and the rest will soon follow. But, it's _your_ game, go
for it.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 10
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:18:04 +0200
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ED to the point where magic is
> > far along on it's starting to wind down again, so such a degree that most
> > horrors and such can't remain?
>
> I don't know. Does it? Any ED gurus out there?

I am no "guru", but I have read the book and all the novels so here goes.
Well you are basically right, but that doesnt mean that ED has a low
magic level. To give you an example of what I mean consider this, every
"adventurer" in earthdown is a magician. Most of them are specialised
forms of PAs and them you get the full mages.

> > Second, isn't the astral plane so polluted with such a heavy background
> > count, or some such thing, that it is actually dangerous to percieve?
> > So much so that this spell is an actual necessity to survive?

No as far as I know percieving is not dangerous, casting raw however is.
Raw casting is our "traditional" SR casting. Magicians in ED use matrices
to purify astral energy before utilising it.

> > Third, what would the astral percption spell cause for it to be
> > unbalancing?

An astral perception spell is definitely out of the question, just
like teleporation.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+$>++++ L+>+++ E--- N+ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 11
From: Jonas Gabrielson <m94jga@*******.TDB.UU.SE>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:07:54 +0200
On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:

> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ED to the point where magic is
> > > far along on it's starting to wind down again, so such a degree that most
> > > horrors and such can't remain?
>
> I am no "guru", but I have read the book and all the novels so here goes.
> Well you are basically right, but that doesnt mean that ED has a low
> magic level. To give you an example of what I mean consider this, every
> "adventurer" in earthdown is a magician. Most of them are specialised
> forms of PAs and them you get the full mages.

Wrongo! He's not basically right! The main thing about ED is that
yes, the mana index has peaked, and started to recede, but it has
temporarily stopped flat at a high level. Not high enough for all
Horrors, but certainly high enough for the more powerful ones, and high
enough for the advanced Adept powers the "adventurers" have.

> > > Second, isn't the astral plane so polluted with such a heavy background
> > > count, or some such thing, that it is actually dangerous to percieve?
> > > So much so that this spell is an actual necessity to survive?
>
> No as far as I know percieving is not dangerous, casting raw however is.
> Raw casting is our "traditional" SR casting. Magicians in ED use matrices
> to purify astral energy before utilising it.

No, perceiving astrally can be dangerous, as it opens a channel
between you and pollution. As in SR, this enables spirits (read: Horrors)
to cast spells through them without having to manifest. Secondly,
perceiving this Astral Plane is a disturbing sight, not for the faint at
heart. The talent of Astral Perception & Projection is mostly lost to the
ED magi. However, Windlings have a natural, biological Astral Sight, and
other races can acheive this by exchanging one of their eyes with a
magical artefact, sort of a primitive magic cyberware.

Casting raw is dangerous, and cause damage and the possible
attention of Horrors. This is analogous with the rules in Bug City for
using magic in the Cermak Blast Site - Background Cound 6+ seems to be
terminally dangerous to your health, and radioactive astral
reverberations must surely count as astral pollution.

Jonas
Message no. 12
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:50:38 +0200
> > I am no "guru", but I have read the book and all the novels so here
goes.
> > Well you are basically right, but that doesnt mean that ED has a low
> > magic level. To give you an example of what I mean consider this, every
> > "adventurer" in earthdown is a magician. Most of them are specialised
> > forms of PAs and them you get the full mages.
>
> Wrongo! He's not basically right! The main thing about ED is that
> yes, the mana index has peaked, and started to recede, but it has
> temporarily stopped flat at a high level. Not high enough for all
> Horrors, but certainly high enough for the more powerful ones, and high
> enough for the advanced Adept powers the "adventurers" have.

Well thats right, but magic (even if it leveled out for a while) is on the
slide down.

> > > > Second, isn't the astral plane so polluted with such a heavy
background
> > > > count, or some such thing, that it is actually dangerous to percieve?
> > > > So much so that this spell is an actual necessity to survive?
> >
> > No as far as I know percieving is not dangerous, casting raw however is.
> > Raw casting is our "traditional" SR casting. Magicians in ED use
matrices
> > to purify astral energy before utilising it.
>
> No, perceiving astrally can be dangerous, as it opens a channel
> between you and pollution. As in SR, this enables spirits (read: Horrors)
> to cast spells through them without having to manifest. Secondly,
> perceiving this Astral Plane is a disturbing sight, not for the faint at
> heart. The talent of Astral Perception & Projection is mostly lost to the
> ED magi. However, Windlings have a natural, biological Astral Sight, and
> other races can acheive this by exchanging one of their eyes with a
> magical artefact, sort of a primitive magic cyberware.

What you say is right, nevertheless I am quite sure that magicians can
percieve by casting spells. I cant give you a reference but I am 100% sure.
As for it being disturbing, *shrug* ask me if I care :)

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+$>++++ L+>+++ E--- N+ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 13
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:45:00 -0400
Damion writes:
> OK, that depends on just how you define the term you just used. Do you mean
> "astral perception" as in the actual ability Astral Perception (available
to
> full magicians, and some adepts), or do you mean something more akin to a
> spell which allows them to "look but not touch"? If it is the first, then
it
> blatantly gives away something which is far too powerful. The second is a
> much more manageable approach. Although I still feel it gives a bit too much

I was planning on working it much akin to the clairvoyance spell, centered
on the target's position.




Matt 'Comatose Raspberry' Hufstetler
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt2778a
Internet: gt2778a@*****.gatech.edu
Message no. 14
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:51:36 +1000
Matt Hufstetler writes:

> I was planning on working it much akin to the clairvoyance spell, centered
> on the target's position.

Well, I've said about all I can. The only thing I have left is a quote:

"A spell cannot normally be cast from astral to mundane space, or vice
versa. These two different realms are seaparated by an interface that can
only be crossed under specific circumstances and criteria. Spellcasting is
not one of them."

To me that indicates that a spell cannot allow you to access/effect the
astral plane when you are on the mundane. Period.

But, if you want to do it, go ahead, feel free to. But be ready for it to be
exploited by inventive players.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 15
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sorcery Adepts and Astral Perception
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:43:13 GMT
Matt Hufstetler writes

> >
> > Mark Steedman writes:
> >
> > > > Only (!) the ability to perceive the astral eh? As if that isn't
enough!
> > >
> > > This would have to be very limited. Best thing i can suggest is have
> > > a look at Earthdawn's first circle wizard spell that allows astral
> >
> > Well, when the level of mana in SR reaches near that of ED, then I guess
> > such a spell will be feasable. Give it a couple of thousand years...
>
> O.k. First off, I have read through ED once. The book is at home so this
> is coming from memory.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ED to the point where magic is
> far along on it's starting to wind down again, so such a degree that most
> horrors and such can't remain?
The magic is tailing oss but unfortunately once the horrors get
through the majority can suvive at a much lower magic level than they
need to get here though not in the quantity they arrive in it would
seem.

> Second, isn't the astral plane so polluted with such a heavy background
> count, or some such thing, that it is actually dangerous to percieve?
Yes, similar to the counts of 6+ in bug city someone mentioned.

> So much so that this spell is an actual necessity to survive?
The ED spell is very different to SR style astral percept, it will
detect things on the astral plane and tell you a very little about
them but it is very limited, even the astral perception
talent/windling ability is limited, i assume in both cases bacause of
the fact that these powers have to cope with the state the astral
plane is in.

> Third, what would the astral percption spell cause for it to be unbalancing?
>
something that gave full SR style astral percept as a spell would be
all right !
>
>
> Matt 'Comatose Raspberry' Hufstetler
>
Mark

Further Reading

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