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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:31:02 -0700
M. Gotthard wrote:
|
| > |I've currently got an Amerindian Physical Adept.... he's fairly tribally
| > |oriented, being of the Soiux tribe (and predicably, an ex-Wildcat)
| > |
| > |Now, I want to get him initiated at some stage, and to fit with the whole
| > |idea of vision quests and other spiritual ideas, I wanted to get him an
| > |ally spirit as a spirit guide sort of thing.
| >
| > Nope. Can't get conjuring.... Sorry....
| >
| Can so, just like mundanes can get Sorcery.....

My house rule is that only those characters that can cast
spells can have Sorcery, and only those characters that can
conjure can have Conjuring. IMHumbleO a mundane can't
learn Sorcery for the same reason that a person can't learn
learn to shoot a pistol without the pistol. And they for
sure can't increase the skill. That would be like having a
character with Pistol: 8 who's never fired a single shot,
let alone held a pistol.

Just a thought :)

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 2
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:41:33 -0500
David Buehrer wrote:

<Snip>

> My house rule is that only those characters that can cast
> spells can have Sorcery, and only those characters that can
> conjure can have Conjuring. IMHumbleO a mundane can't
> learn Sorcery for the same reason that a person can't learn
> learn to shoot a pistol without the pistol. And they for
> sure can't increase the skill. That would be like having a
> character with Pistol: 8 who's never fired a single shot,
> let alone held a pistol.

> Just a thought :)

I understand what you are saying, but there are mundane uses of the
sorcery and conjuring skills (and the enchanting skill). A mundane,
according to the rules, CAN learn the skills in a mundane fashion. This
does NOT allow them to cast spells or conjure spirits, but they can do
other mundane things with these skills. Don't ask me what a mundane
conjuring skill allows (for example), because I can't recall at the
moment. However, I recall it having its uses.

> -David

<Snip of signature>

Justin :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:08:25 -0500
Justin Pinnow wrote,
>I understand what you are saying, but there are mundane uses of the
>sorcery and conjuring skills (and the enchanting skill). A mundane,
>according to the rules, CAN learn the skills in a mundane fashion. This
>does NOT allow them to cast spells or conjure spirits, but they can do
>other mundane things with these skills. Don't ask me what a mundane
>conjuring skill allows (for example), because I can't recall at the
>moment. However, I recall it having its uses.

Was this something in Awakenings I glazed over? Last I recalled the
only magical skill a mundane could learn was Magical Theory, a skill
based on knowledge only and not on magical manipulation. Then there was
mention of sorcery skill to fight spirits (was it only in the Astral
plane?) that never made enough sense to me.
The bottom line still is that a magician with conjuring skill is
required to summon an ally spirit. Even if there was a mundane cojuration
no spirit would be summoneds since the mundane could not access the power
to call forth even a watcher.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 4
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:37:33 -0500
MC23 wrote:

<Snip of my post>

> Was this something in Awakenings I glazed over? Last I recalled the
> only magical skill a mundane could learn was Magical Theory, a skill
> based on knowledge only and not on magical manipulation. Then there was
> mention of sorcery skill to fight spirits (was it only in the Astral
> plane?) that never made enough sense to me.

It's in the Grimmy, I believe. Mundanes can, for example, use
enchanting to make fetishes, etc. There are other uses for Sorcery,
Conjuring, and Magical Theory mentioned, I believe.

As far as sorcer skill being used to fight spirits, that's a completely
different thing. That's for anyone with access to the astral plane
(which mundanes don't have)...you can use either unarmed combat or
sorcery to attack spells, spirits, etc....armed combat if you are using
a weapon focus.

> The bottom line still is that a magician with conjuring skill is
> required to summon an ally spirit. Even if there was a mundane cojuration
> no spirit would be summoneds since the mundane could not access the power
> to call forth even a watcher.

Agreed.

<Snip of signature>

Justin :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 5
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:35:53 -0500
> Was this something in Awakenings I glazed over? Last I recalled the
>only magical skill a mundane could learn was Magical Theory, a skill
>based on knowledge only and not on magical manipulation. Then there was
>mention of sorcery skill to fight spirits (was it only in the Astral
>plane?) that never made enough sense to me.

Mundanes can learn Sorcery, Conjuring, and parts of Enchanting. As someone
else said, this is justified by learning the Knowledge rather than practice
based parts of those skills. This is all explained (rather clearly, thanks
Steve) in Awakenings.

Basically, Sorcery can be used in Astral Combat (note that it says the odds
of a Mundane learning sorcery are pretty small, but technically possible)

Conjuring can be used to bind a free spirit or resist spirit powers.

Enchanting can make Fetishes.
Message no. 6
From: Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:42:29 -0500
About mundunes possessing magical knowledge:

Even today, there are a lot of people who study magic, they just can't
do anything with it.

On a side note, many talismongers are mundanes with the enchanting skill
who know all the formulas involved, but just can't plant the mojo.

Shawn
Breaking out his Crowley collection for nostalgia.

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh No!
Another damn page!
http://www.toptown.com/CENTRALPARK/DEOSYNE/
Ah what the hell; better than gardening!
Message no. 7
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:04:22 +0000
> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Subject: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill

> conjure can have Conjuring. IMHumbleO a mundane can't
> learn Sorcery for the same reason that a person can't learn
> learn to shoot a pistol without the pistol. And they for
> sure can't increase the skill. That would be like having a
> character with Pistol: 8 who's never fired a single shot,
> let alone held a pistol.

Happens everyday. How do you think brain surgeons learn? "Ok class,
today we are going to dive straight into brain surgery, I know its
our first week, but you can't learn it if you don't do it."

I can teach you everything you need to know to fire a pistol without
ever letting you see one. Will you be a marksman? No. Can a
mundane conjure a spirit? No. You know what you need to know, but
have no practical use of the skill.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 8
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:19:00 -0700
Droopy wrote:
|
| > From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
| > Subject: Sorcery/Conjuring Skill
|
| > conjure can have Conjuring. IMHumbleO a mundane can't
| > learn Sorcery for the same reason that a person can't learn
| > learn to shoot a pistol without the pistol. And they for
| > sure can't increase the skill. That would be like having a
| > character with Pistol: 8 who's never fired a single shot,
| > let alone held a pistol.
|
| Happens everyday. How do you think brain surgeons learn? "Ok class,
| today we are going to dive straight into brain surgery, I know its
| our first week, but you can't learn it if you don't do it."
|
| I can teach you everything you need to know to fire a pistol without
| ever letting you see one. Will you be a marksman? No. Can a
| mundane conjure a spirit? No. You know what you need to know, but
| have no practical use of the skill.

<plantive whine> Sure. Go ahead and change my mind. See
if I care. </plantive whine>

:)

-David-who-just-resigns-himself-to-being-wrong-from-time-to-time
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

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