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Message no. 1
From: Steve Collins <steve_collins@********.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM>
Subject: speaking about spirit power
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:51:50 U
Mail*Link® SMTP speaking about spirit powers

This has been bothering me for a long time. does anybody out there =
understand exactly how the spirit power of alienation works. It seems to =
say that you cease to exist for the rest of the world. That if you stood =
infront of an 18 wheeler moving at 80 miles an hour it would pass right =
through you. If this is the case why not just have the spirit alienate =
yourself when the drek hits the fan. Then you can just walk away to safety =
and in a few hours the effect goes away. Yeah I know you feel Drekky while =
you are alienated, like the world forgot you exist, but you would still be =
alive and free. I also cannot think of any other use for this power. You =
couldn't use it on a Security Guard, what would stop ther alienated slob =
from following you home then when the power wore off calling home and =
telling everybody else where you are.
Message no. 2
From: Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:04:59 -0700
This has been bothering me for a long time. does anybody out there
understand exactly how the spirit power of alienation works. It seems to
say that you cease to exist for the rest of the world. That if you stood
infront of an 18 wheeler moving at 80 miles an hour it would pass right
through you. If this is the case why not just have the spirit alienate
yourself when the drek hits the fan. Then you can just walk away to safety
and in a few hours the effect goes away. Yeah I know you feel Drekky while
you are alienated, like the world forgot you exist, but you would still be
alive and free. I also cannot think of any other use for this power. You
couldn't use it on a Security Guard, what would stop ther alienated slob
from following you home then when the power wore off calling home and
telling everybody else where you are.


Ok this is how I have always understood it...take it with a grain of salt.
Alienation only can hinder you for example if you were standing in the
middle of the street and the above mentioned semi drove right through where
you were standing you WOULD be hit and subsequently squashed. However, if
you waqlked up to a semi and tried to hit it for some reason your
hand/weapon would pass right through it. In short the world CAN effect
you, but you cannot effect the world. Stray bullets can kill you as can
say explosions even though noone can see you. Otherwise you are correct
alienation would be the ultimate inviso spell.


tossin' my 2Y on the table,

~Caric

"All the world's indeed a stage, we are mearly players.
Performers and portrayers. Each anothers audience,
outside the gilded cage." -Rush
caric@*******.com
----------
Message no. 3
From: hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 11:11:27 +0000
> say that you cease to exist for the rest of the world. That if you stood
> infront of an 18 wheeler moving at 80 miles an hour it would pass right
> through you. If this is the case why not just have the spirit alienate
> yourself when the drek hits the fan. Then you can just walk away to safety
> and in a few hours the effect goes away. Yeah I know you feel Drekky while
>
I play it as the real world still affects you.. AND my players DO use
alientation on themselves... Can't find anything in the rules to use
against them really.. It has saved there butts a few times.
Message no. 4
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: speaking about spirit power -Reply
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:23:09 -0500
Alienation needs some better examples in the books, no doubt. Here is my take
on it.

Alienation prevents other living beings from noticing you or remembering that you
exist. It would prevent the driver of the 18 wheeler from seeing you trying to wave
him down. It would NOT prevent you from taking about 25D damage from the
radiator grill of the aforementioned 18 wheeler.

My favorite ALienation uses:
alienate the mage, them manifest noiseily right between the mage and the
samurai. Don't tell the players any of this, just have the sam make an attack roll
against the spirit and then tell the mage to resist the damage (Doh!)

Combine movement and alienation. ALienate one team member, and slow his
movement down. "Hey guys, wait up!" When he is all alone, attack him. Pick
off
team members this way till there is only one guy...

My evil spirits usually drop alienation right after a victim buys it, so that the other
players find the body (very intimidating--how did something do THAT to Johnny
and we didn't even notice?)

Still, for a player who doesn't need any cooperation from teamates might think
alienation is useful used on himself. I would attempt to make his life hellish if he
tries it. Make him roll to open every doornob. Definetly make him roll to tell the
spirit to stop :) Remember, his team mates will NOT EVEN REMEMBER HE
EXISTS. "Why are we sitting here in the getaway car? Lets go get a burger.
Gee someones beeping my phone, but no one is there. Must have been a wrong
number. Gee, those security guards seem to be shooting at somebody, we
should leave before we get involved..."

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 5
From: Glenn Fraser <Glenn_Fraser@***.COM>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:04:44 UT
Uh read more about alienation. It says they are intangible and whatnot but it
also says that people
will shoot through them to hit targets and they have to roll successes to get
out of dangerous situations .

----------
From: Shadowrun Discussion on behalf of Steve Collins
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 1996 20:51 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: speaking about spirit power

Mail*Link® SMTP speaking about spirit powers

This has been bothering me for a long time. does anybody out there =
understand exactly how the spirit power of alienation works. It seems to =
say that you cease to exist for the rest of the world. That if you stood =
infront of an 18 wheeler moving at 80 miles an hour it would pass right =
through you. If this is the case why not just have the spirit alienate =
yourself when the drek hits the fan. Then you can just walk away to safety =
and in a few hours the effect goes away. Yeah I know you feel Drekky while =
you are alienated, like the world forgot you exist, but you would still be =
alive and free. I also cannot think of any other use for this power. You =
couldn't use it on a Security Guard, what would stop ther alienated slob =
from following you home then when the power wore off calling home and =
telling everybody else where you are.
Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:46:14 +0000
|
|Mail*Link® SMTP speaking about spirit powers
|
|This has been bothering me for a long time. does anybody out there =
|understand exactly how the spirit power of alienation works. It seems to =
|say that you cease to exist for the rest of the world. That if you stood =
|infront of an 18 wheeler moving at 80 miles an hour it would pass right =
|through you.

Nope.... The driver would drive straight through you, but it'd probably kill
you as you bounced a few miles down the road and got run over by all the
other passing traffic, whilst everyone just passed on by, totally ignoring
you.....

If this is the case why not just have the spirit alienate =
|yourself when the drek hits the fan.

You could as the form of advanced invisibility, but it's dangerous, because
even people who would normally see you will just ignore you....

(and shoot through you to hit their enemies...)

|Then you can just walk away to safety =
|and in a few hours the effect goes away. Yeah I know you feel Drekky while =
|you are alienated, like the world forgot you exist, but you would still be =
|alive and free. I also cannot think of any other use for this power. You =
|couldn't use it on a Security Guard, what would stop ther alienated slob =
|from following you home then when the power wore off calling home and =
|telling everybody else where you are.

For one thing, they don't know they've been alienated...
They might walk in front of a car expecting it to slow down.
All manner of nasty things could happen.
Besides, you can always ask the spirit to keep a tabs on him, and the moment
he leaves the spirits range of influence, the effect would vanish anyway....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:38:57 -0500
Steve Collins wrote:
<one LONG line deleted>

Hey Steve, know how to use an enter key?

--

====TIM
KERBY==================================================================
drekhead@***.net | "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
drekhead@***.com | stomping on a human face...forever." -George Orwell
drekhead@*******.com | ---www.aol.users.com\drekhead\home.html---
==============================================================================
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Message no. 8
From: The Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power -Reply
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:05:24 +1100
> Combine movement and alienation. ALienate one team member, and slow his
> movement down. "Hey guys, wait up!" When he is all alone, attack him.
Pick off
> team members this way till there is only one guy...

But AFAIK, Alienation affects everybody - i.e. not only could the guy's
friends not see him, you couldn't see him to attack him either. Or am I
wrong? Again?

> EXISTS. "Why are we sitting here in the getaway car? Lets go get a burger.
> Gee someones beeping my phone, but no one is there. Must have been a wrong
> number. Gee, those security guards seem to be shooting at somebody, we

Convenient, but if his teammates can't see him, the security guards
shouldn't be able to either. As far as I'm aware, the power isn't
selective in that respect...

Lady Jestyr

--------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
--------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.oz.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
--------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power -Reply
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 23:12:29 +0000
|
|> Combine movement and alienation. ALienate one team member, and slow his
|> movement down. "Hey guys, wait up!" When he is all alone, attack him.
Pick off
|> team members this way till there is only one guy...
|
|But AFAIK, Alienation affects everybody - i.e. not only could the guy's
|friends not see him, you couldn't see him to attack him either. Or am I
|wrong? Again?

All depends if the attacker get's the spirit to turn off the alienation once
he's out of earshot so that he CAN attack....

|> EXISTS. "Why are we sitting here in the getaway car? Lets go get a burger.
|> Gee someones beeping my phone, but no one is there. Must have been a wrong
|> number. Gee, those security guards seem to be shooting at somebody, we
|
|Convenient, but if his teammates can't see him, the security guards
|shouldn't be able to either. As far as I'm aware, the power isn't
|selective in that respect...

Nope.... It's not....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power -Reply
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:13:51 -0500
At 10:05 AM 12/24/96 +1100, you wrote:
>> Combine movement and alienation. ALienate one team member, and slow his
>> movement down. "Hey guys, wait up!" When he is all alone, attack
him.
Pick off
>> team members this way till there is only one guy...
>
>But AFAIK, Alienation affects everybody - i.e. not only could the guy's
>friends not see him, you couldn't see him to attack him either. Or am I
>wrong? Again?
>
I don't think you're wrong, but I believe (at least, we play it this way)
taht the spirit that did the alienating can still see the person, and can
kill him, or try...:)

Bull
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:16:24 +0100
Steve Collins said on 12:51/23 Dec 96...

> This has been bothering me for a long time. does anybody out there
> understand exactly how the spirit power of alienation works. It seems to
> say that you cease to exist for the rest of the world.

Not quite: for everyone in the world, it appears that you cease to exist,
or depending on your GM, that you never even existed. If you've seen the
last episode of Red Dwarf, compare this to the scene where they hit a
reality bubble and suddenly, the Cat is gone -- except he's still sitting
in the pilot's seat of Spacebug.

> That if you stood infront of an 18 wheeler moving at 80 miles an hour it
> would pass right through you. If this is the case why not just have the
> spirit alienate yourself when the drek hits the fan. Then you can just
> walk away to safety and in a few hours the effect goes away.

Won't work -- the driver of the 18-wheeler will drive on as if you're not
standing in the middle of the road, because you don't exist to him. The
truck hits you, and it causes a big mess that nobody notices until the
power wears off...

> I also cannot think of any other use for this power. You couldn't use it
> on a Security Guard, what would stop ther alienated slob from following
> you home then when the power wore off calling home and telling everybody
> else where you are.

First of all, the sec guard feels really bad about everybody not noticing
him, so following you home probably wouldn't be the first thing on his
mind. A good use for this power is to alienate the sec guard, and then get
him between you and his colleagues -- they open fire on you, and actually
shoot the alienated guard.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know that it's wrong, so what should I do?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 12
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: speaking about spirit power -Reply -Reply
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:27:02 -0500
>>>> The Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> 12/23/96 06:05pm
>>>
>> Combine movement and alienation. ALienate one team member, and slow his
>> movement down. "Hey guys, wait up!" When he is all alone, attack
him.
>>Pick off team members this way till there is only one guy...
>
>But AFAIK, Alienation affects everybody - i.e. not only could the guy's friends
>not see him, you couldn't see him to attack him either. Or am I wrong? Again?

Quite true. But the spirit could attack him.

>> number. Gee, those security guards seem to be shooting at somebody, we
>
>Convenient, but if his teammates can't see him, the security guards shouldn't be
>able to either. As far as I'm aware, the power isn't selective in that respect...

Yes, but the guards could always have a policy of "when an alarm goes off, spray
the zero zone down with lead, just in case..." :) And wouldn't dual natured
paranormals detect alienated intruders?

Double-Domed Mike

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