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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: speed freaks
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:09:47 +0100
andre eibel said on 19:48/23 May 97...

> For all the real speed-freaks out there: take a shapshifter physical mage.
> If the GM not kills you on the spot you can get 10 dice for initiative.

As the resident Speed Samurai designer, I just _have_ to figure this one
out...

Base dice 1D6
Leopard or Tiger shapeshifter 2D6
Physad power (6 points) 3D6

That gives 6D6 initiative, not 10D6, though it is possible at character
generation. You'd have to take a plain physad, however, because you need 6
Magic points to spend on initiative dice.

Alternatively, a physical mage with a 4/2 split between physad and mage
could get this:

Base dice 1D6
Leopard or Tiger shapeshifter 2D6
Physad power (4 points) 2D6
Spell lock 3D6

That comes up to 8D6 with the spell lock on, or 5D6 with the lock off. If
you get to be a grade 2 initiate you can add an extra die for 9D6, but
that's not possible at character generation.

Assuming you also put 6 into Quickness and Intelligence, you end up with
6+8D6, or min/average/max values of 14/34/54, and only in leopard or tiger
form.

Speed Samurai 2.0 gets 21+4D6, or 25/35/45, which gives higher lowest and
average values, but can't get quite as high as the shapeshifter physical
mage. A major drawback of the shapeshifter, though, is that the character
only has 17 Attribute points, or which 12 are in Quickness and
Intelligence, whereas the speed sam has quite high Body and Strength
ratings as well.

On the whole, I myself would go for the technological solution over the
magical one to get a super-initiative character.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
said so you can always change it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 2
From: andre eibel <eibel.andre@**.COMCITY.DE>
Subject: Re: speed freaks
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:25:04 -0500
Am 23-Mai-97 schrieb Gurth:

>andre eibel said on 19:48/23 May 97...

>> For all the real speed-freaks out there: take a shapshifter physical mage.
>> If the GM not kills you on the spot you can get 10 dice for initiative.

>As the resident Speed Samurai designer, I just _have_ to figure this one
>out...

>Base dice 1D6
>Leopard or Tiger shapeshifter 2D6
>Physad power (6 points) 3D6

>That gives 6D6 initiative, not 10D6, though it is possible at character
>generation. You'd have to take a plain physad, however, because you need 6
>Magic points to spend on initiative dice.

Thats right but shapshifters got 8 points essence so i give them 8 magic
points to start

>Alternatively, a physical mage with a 4/2 split between physad and mage
>could get this:

>Base dice 1D6
>Leopard or Tiger shapeshifter 2D6
>Physad power (4 points) 2D6
>Spell lock 3D6

>That comes up to 8D6 with the spell lock on, or 5D6 with the lock off. If
>you get to be a grade 2 initiate you can add an extra die for 9D6, but
>that's not possible at character generation.

>Assuming you also put 6 into Quickness and Intelligence, you end up with
>6+8D6, or min/average/max values of 14/34/54, and only in leopard or tiger
>form.

>Speed Samurai 2.0 gets 21+4D6, or 25/35/45, which gives higher lowest and
>average values, but can't get quite as high as the shapeshifter physical
>mage. A major drawback of the shapeshifter, though, is that the character
>only has 17 Attribute points, or which 12 are in Quickness and
>Intelligence, whereas the speed sam has quite high Body and Strength
>ratings as well.

>On the whole, I myself would go for the technological solution over the
>magical one to get a super-initiative character.

>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
> said so you can always change it.
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
>-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Hi Gurth
You are complettly right when you use the shapshifter from the comp.
But I use in my group the same stats form them as for the npc`s
because I think the comps ones are crap in the comparison.
But then they can still be used as real speedy and nasty npc`s.
--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: speed freaks
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 11:14:05 +0100
andre eibel said on 0:25/24 May 97...

Could you delete the bits of messages you're not replying to? Your post
was almost as bad as a "me too!" :/

> >That gives 6D6 initiative, not 10D6, though it is possible at character
> >generation. You'd have to take a plain physad, however, because you need 6
> >Magic points to spend on initiative dice.
>
> Thats right but shapshifters got 8 points essence so i give them 8 magic
> points to start

I couldn't find any rule in the Companion that says they do. In the
critter table in SRII they get 8 Essence, yes, but I'm not sure if I'd
allow that to PC shapeshifters, since the Companion doesn't really mention
it either way... Anyway if you do use that then you can have 9D6
initiative, true.

> >On the whole, I myself would go for the technological solution over the
> >magical one to get a super-initiative character.
> >
> You are complettly right when you use the shapshifter from the comp.
> But I use in my group the same stats form them as for the npc`s
> because I think the comps ones are crap in the comparison.
> But then they can still be used as real speedy and nasty npc`s.

If it's NPCs you want to give a high initiative, then forget most of what
I said. You can make much faster combinations if you're not limited by
money or Karma. The way I tend to look at these characters is from the
character generation system, to see if they can be made as starting
characters.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
said so you can always change it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 4
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Speed Freaks
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:48:11 -0400
Greetings!!!

In the past, FASA has also ruled that only highest initive bonus applies to a
character when dealing with multiple inititive die bonuses such as a physcial
adepts Increased reflex power and spells.

But agian, GMs can run how they see fit. I personally think it would be too
obnoixou to deal with charcters with 10D6 inititive.

-Bandit
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Speed Freaks
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:28:34 +0100
M. Sean Martinez said on 10:48/26 May 97...

> In the past, FASA has also ruled that only highest initive bonus applies to a
> character when dealing with multiple inititive die bonuses such as a physcial
> adepts Increased reflex power and spells.

It's a good thing MC23 went to NOMAIL a few days ago... Last time I
brought that up, saying Tom Dowd had said it, it ended in a HUGE argument
over whether I was stating house rules, if a Tom Dowd quote could be
considered valid if FASA didn't back it up by putting it in print, etc.
etc. etc.... Not nice.

However, I agree with you in that only the highest boost applies unless
it's specifically stated otherwise (like synaptic accelerator-1 + move by
wire).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And everytime it rains...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Speed Freaks
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 18:29:11 -0400
At 08:28 PM 5/26/97 +0100, Gurth wrote these timeless words:
>M. Sean Martinez said on 10:48/26 May 97...
>
>> In the past, FASA has also ruled that only highest initive bonus applies
to a
>> character when dealing with multiple inititive die bonuses such as a
physcial
>> adepts Increased reflex power and spells.
>
>It's a good thing MC23 went to NOMAIL a few days ago... Last time I
>brought that up, saying Tom Dowd had said it, it ended in a HUGE argument
>over whether I was stating house rules, if a Tom Dowd quote could be
>considered valid if FASA didn't back it up by putting it in print, etc.
>etc. etc.... Not nice.
>
>However, I agree with you in that only the highest boost applies unless
>it's specifically stated otherwise (like synaptic accelerator-1 + move by
>wire).
>
For me, personally, just to avoid problems and preserve the game balance, I
will allow combinations of spells and synaptic reflexes, BUT only to a
maximum of 4d6 total initiative. I do not allow anything higher, except
for move by wire 4, which not even the total munchies have bothered asking
for, and there's no way my players would ever be able to get it and/or
afford it...:]

That's just my personal houserle...

Bull
--
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Further Reading

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