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Message no. 1
From: Malcalypse The Younger <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Spell ideas
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 23:37:17 -0500
Ok, I have some spell ideas, and I want to run them by ya'll before I
figure out game mechanics.

Astral Backlash:
This spell would be an AoE spell whose effects targe all astral
presences in an area. This would include Dual beings, Foci, and
Projecting/Percieving Characters. How feasible is this? Should it be a
Combat spell or a Damaging Manipulatiopn? If an mainipulation, what kind
of Elemental effects?


Some new type of Astral barrier:
This is similair to a Mana Barrier spell, and also sililair to the
Astral Backlash spell, above. This would basicly be a wall of energy
that would do Damage to any Astrally Active thing that tries to pass
through it. It could come in different Damage levels, etc. I see
precedent here with the pressent Barrier spells, as well as Wards. This
would, of course, be a sustained spell. Also, how should THIS be
classified?

Shadow
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 11:13:15 +0100
>Astral Backlash:
> This spell would be an AoE spell whose effects targe all astral
>presences in an area. This would include Dual beings, Foci, and
>Projecting/Percieving Characters. How feasible is this? Should it be a
>Combat spell or a Damaging Manipulatiopn? If an mainipulation, what kind
>of Elemental effects?

This would IMHO be a combat spell, and as I read the rules a Manaball does
the same (though that also affects physical creatures). If I understand
correctly this spell _only_ works on astral beings? (and dual-natured ones,
I suppose?). I'd call this a restricted target spell.

>Some new type of Astral barrier:
> This is similair to a Mana Barrier spell, and also sililair to the
>Astral Backlash spell, above. This would basicly be a wall of energy
>that would do Damage to any Astrally Active thing that tries to pass
>through it. It could come in different Damage levels, etc. I see
>precedent here with the pressent Barrier spells, as well as Wards. This
>would, of course, be a sustained spell. Also, how should THIS be
>classified?

A manipulation spell, since Barrier is also one.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Blabbering on like rubbish there...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 3
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 00:00:05 +1000
Gurth writes:

> >Astral Backlash:
> > This spell would be an AoE spell whose effects targe all astral
> >presences in an area. This would include Dual beings, Foci, and
> >Projecting/Percieving Characters. How feasible is this? Should it be a
> >Combat spell or a Damaging Manipulatiopn? If an mainipulation, what kind
> >of Elemental effects?
>
> This would IMHO be a combat spell, and as I read the rules a Manaball does
> the same (though that also affects physical creatures). If I understand
> correctly this spell _only_ works on astral beings? (and dual-natured ones,
> I suppose?). I'd call this a restricted target spell.

Is this spell meant to be one which is cast from the physical and effects
only astral presences, or one which is cast from the astral and effects only
astral presences? Because if it is the latter, then it is a powerball, and
if it is the former, the rules _explicity_ state that this is impossible.

> >Some new type of Astral barrier:
> > This is similair to a Mana Barrier spell, and also sililair to the
> >Astral Backlash spell, above. This would basicly be a wall of energy
> >that would do Damage to any Astrally Active thing that tries to pass
> >through it. It could come in different Damage levels, etc. I see
> >precedent here with the pressent Barrier spells, as well as Wards. This
> >would, of course, be a sustained spell. Also, how should THIS be
> >classified?
>
> A manipulation spell, since Barrier is also one.

Just what kind of barrier is it intended to be? It sounds like a Mana
Barrier to me, except that Mana Barrier doesn't do damage to targets passing
through. Ah, I worked it out, what you want is a sustained damaging
manipulation which is in the form of a wall rather than the normal sphere.
No worries.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 4
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 16:21:15 +0100
> >Astral Backlash:
> > This spell would be an AoE spell whose effects targe all astral
> >presences in an area. This would include Dual beings, Foci, and
> >Projecting/Percieving Characters. How feasible is this? Should it be a
> >Combat spell or a Damaging Manipulatiopn? If an mainipulation, what kind
> >of Elemental effects?
>
> This would IMHO be a combat spell, and as I read the rules a Manaball does
> the same (though that also affects physical creatures). If I understand
> correctly this spell _only_ works on astral beings? (and dual-natured ones,
> I suppose?). I'd call this a restricted target spell.

I'd call this an "impossible spell" :). If I understand the idea correctly
this spell is supposed to affect astral targets when cast by a magician in the
physical plane. I dont think that this is possible. OTOH a mage could try and
cast it directly in the astral, but that too shouldnt work as spells are
not "spells" in the astral.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 5
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 13:50:22 -0700
>Astral Backlash:
> This spell would be an AoE spell whose effects targe all astral
>presences in an area. This would include Dual beings, Foci, and
>Projecting/Percieving Characters. How feasible is this? Should it be a

I don't know - I alwasys thought that power-ball succeeded rather well in doing
this.

>Some new type of Astral barrier:
> This is similair to a Mana Barrier spell, and also sililair to the
>Astral Backlash spell, above. This would basicly be a wall of energy
>that would do Damage to any Astrally Active thing that tries to pass
>through it. It could come in different Damage levels, etc. I see

again - why? a barrier WILL ATTACK when someone attacks it.

Nightfox
Message no. 6
From: Malcalypse The Younger <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 22:37:46 -0500
On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >Astral Backlash:
> > This spell would be an AoE spell whose effects targe all astral
> >presences in an area. This would include Dual beings, Foci, and
> >Projecting/Percieving Characters. How feasible is this? Should it be a
> >Combat spell or a Damaging Manipulatiopn? If an mainipulation, what kind
> >of Elemental effects?
>
> This would IMHO be a combat spell, and as I read the rules a Manaball does
> the same (though that also affects physical creatures). If I understand
> correctly this spell _only_ works on astral beings? (and dual-natured ones,
> I suppose?). I'd call this a restricted target spell.

Sort of. The problem here is that it targets ALL astraly active things.
Including the projecting mage (who you won't hit with a manaball) and any
foci, etc. This COULD be a devastating attack, ie, a Force 6 Backlash has
a REAL good chance of killing all spell locks, and some lower powered
foci in its area of effect.
> A manipulation spell, since Barrier is also one.

And how do you handle that it does damage? It really doesn't fit to have
any of the elemental effects here. Though I guess it could be fit in,
they are usually considered only for physical effects...

Shadow
Message no. 7
From: Malcalypse The Younger <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 22:42:55 -0500
On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Damion Milliken wrote:

[Astral Backlash]

> Is this spell meant to be one which is cast from the physical and effects
> only astral presences, or one which is cast from the astral and effects only
> astral presences? Because if it is the latter, then it is a powerball, and
> if it is the former, the rules _explicity_ state that this is impossible.

Yes, it is meant to be cast from the astral, into the astral. Does
powerball do this? I guess I didn't think about it that way. Does
powerball effect physical items (as a spell lock, etc. would be)?

>
> > >Some new type of Astral barrier:
>
> Just what kind of barrier is it intended to be? It sounds like a Mana
> Barrier to me, except that Mana Barrier doesn't do damage to targets passing
> through. Ah, I worked it out, what you want is a sustained damaging
> manipulation which is in the form of a wall rather than the normal sphere.
> No worries.

Ok, but how can it be a damaging manip w/o elemental effects? I thought
the rule was that it MUST have one..

Shadow
Message no. 8
From: Malcalypse The Younger <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 22:54:20 -0500
On Sat, 4 Mar 1995, NIGHTFOX wrote:

> >Some new type of Astral barrier:
> > This is similair to a Mana Barrier spell, and also sililair to the
> >Astral Backlash spell, above. This would basicly be a wall of energy
> >that would do Damage to any Astrally Active thing that tries to pass
> >through it. It could come in different Damage levels, etc. I see
>
> again - why? a barrier WILL ATTACK when someone attacks it.
>

Actually, this one is to fuck the runners as they walk into a trap. They
walk through a doorway without astral overwatch, and suddenly thier foci
start to smoke as the ambush is sprung. Also has a chance of smoking
quickenings, power foci, etc.

Shadow
Message no. 9
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 15:13:55 +1000
Ok, after a bit of consideration and reading, I've come up with the
following observations:

Backlash Spell

As far as the rules seem to go, this type of spell can't be done. An area
effect spell when cast at an astral presence will do the folowing:

1) If it's a physical spell (like Powerball), then it grounds out through
the targets physical side, and effects everyone around them on the physical
(assuming the casting magician can see them of course - and yes, even if
they are not dual natured or such themselves, all available targets are
attacked).
2) If it is a mana spell (like Manaball), then it effects _only_ the target,
and doesn't create an area effect, nor does it ground.

Now, the other interesting thing I found was that if you cast a Powerball
(or any other physical combat spell) at a magician from real space to real
space, then you also get to fry his foci (I never knew this before!). This
has the effect that if you lob a physical spell at an astral target from
astral space, then you also get any foci he might be carrying anyway (since
the spell grounds out at his physical location, and you can see his foci
because of their astral presence).

As far as I can tell, there is no area of effect spell which has its area
effect carried over into the astral. It also seems to me that creating such
a spell is not possible - 1 & 2 above cover all possibilities for
spellcasting on the astral plane and they seem to preclude such an effect.

The Barrier spell

From the description of the desired effects, I gathered the following:

1) The spell should be in the form of a wall (the same as the Barrier type
spells).
2) The spell should only effect astral presences.
3) The spell should damage those who pass through it.
4) The spell does not actually block movement through it - it only does
damage as people pass through.

If this is correct, then the desired effect could almost be created by the
use of a sustained Combat spell. Instead of the area of effect being a
sphere, have the spell with dimensions the same as a barrier spell. It is a
Combat spell, so it has a damage level, and you could include the sustained
modifier. A Combat spell would just do damage to anyone who passed through
it, but it wouldn't block their movement. However, No 2 from above is,
again, an impossibility, the best that could be managed is making the spell
a mana spell so that it only effects living targets, it wouldn't effect
astral targets though.

Alternatively, you could design the spell as a regular (not Damaging)
Manipulation, like the normal Barrier class of spells are. Now, taking a
precedence from the Mana Barrier spell, you could design it exactly the
same, but include the "Restricted Target" modifier, and specify "astral
opponents only" (note that Mana Barrier _is_ an astral barrier too, read the
description). What you would end up with is not quite as described by 1,2,3
& 4 though. You'd get 1 & 2, and 3 by an indirect route (in that any astral
presence which tries to pass through the barrier will be attacked by the
barrier in astral combat). Number 4 above is not obtainable using this
approach though (the barrier will block astral movement for as long as it is
active).

The effect could not be created using a Damaging Manipulation, because these
spells need to be physical.

Malcalypse The Younger writes:

> Actually, this one is to fuck the runners as they walk into a trap. They
> walk through a doorway without astral overwatch, and suddenly thier foci
> start to smoke as the ambush is sprung. Also has a chance of smoking
> quickenings, power foci, etc.

I had some gangers my runners wished to, ah, "question", place a ward around
their hideout. The runners walked blindly in, and promptly lost all foci and
quickened spell except two weapon foci (which were not active at the time),
and a spirit focus (which wasn't either). The players lost all their
Increase * spells, their power foci, the lot. Boy, were they steamed. <evil
GM grin>

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 10
From: LISETTE M THERIOT <psy_lmt@***.LAMAR.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 13:04:09 -0600
>And how do you handle that it does damage? It really doesn't fit to have
>any of the elemental effects here. Though I guess it could be fit in,
>they are usually considered only for physical effects...

That reminds me... somewhere in the grimiethingie it says that elemental
effects can only be used with pysical spells, and then they turn around and
give us Manablast.
HUH?????
Message no. 11
From: Sean Sheridan <spsherid@********.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 19:40:34 -0600
>>Some new type of Astral barrier:
>> This is similair to a Mana Barrier spell, and also sililair to the
>>Astral Backlash spell, above. This would basicly be a wall of energy
>>that would do Damage to any Astrally Active thing that tries to pass
>>through it. It could come in different Damage levels, etc. I see
>
>again - why? a barrier WILL ATTACK when someone attacks it.
>
>Nightfox
>
But maybe we could have a spell that is a sustained damaging manipulation
with an AOE. It would inflict damage, not attack, anyone who entered
it's domain. It would be similar to astral static, less drain
because of it's smaller AOE and it's specific effect(spheres/planes only for
shape.)
It would have higher drain from it's damage and elemental/astral effects.
I like it. It's similar to the spells you can anchor onto swords and the
like except that it's included in a barrier spell.
Sean
Message no. 12
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 13:14:03 +1000
Sean Sheridan writes:

> But maybe we could have a spell that is a sustained damaging manipulation
> with an AOE. It would inflict damage, not attack, anyone who entered
> it's domain. It would be similar to astral static, less drain
> because of it's smaller AOE and it's specific effect(spheres/planes only for
> shape.)
> It would have higher drain from it's damage and elemental/astral effects.
> I like it. It's similar to the spells you can anchor onto swords and the
> like except that it's included in a barrier spell.

I'm not so sure it is possible. Damaging Manipulations cannot be cast from
the astral because they have a physical component. And if you were to cast
it from the physical, then the astral targets would not be effected.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 11:19:07 +0100
>But maybe we could have a spell that is a sustained damaging manipulation
>with an AOE. It would inflict damage, not attack, anyone who entered
>it's domain. It would be similar to astral static, less drain
>because of it's smaller AOE and it's specific effect(spheres/planes only for
>shape.)

You can't make the AOE smaller in the design of the spell -- all spells have
an AOE of (Magic) meters in radius, and this can be made larger and smaller
by withdrawing dice from the Spell Success Test.

>It would have higher drain from it's damage and elemental/astral effects.
>I like it. It's similar to the spells you can anchor onto swords and the
>like except that it's included in a barrier spell.

How about the following spell:

Astral Damaging Barrier (suggestions for better names welcome :)
This spell creates a barrier on the astral plane in a way similar to the
Mana Barrier spell (SR2 page 158 (I think :)), but anyone crossing the
barrier is subject to (Force)M damage from the spell.

Drain:
Damage Level: M
Sustained Spell: +1
Area-Effect: S
Damaging Manipulation is Sustained: D
Limited Range: S
Restricted Target (astral beings) -1
Discretionary Effect (Complex): D
(F/2)D


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Blabbering on like rubbish there...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 14
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 22:37:06 +1000
LISETTE M THERIOT writes:

> That reminds me... somewhere in the grimiethingie it says that elemental
> effects can only be used with pysical spells, and then they turn around and
> give us Manablast.
> HUH?????

Exactly. "HUH?????". It is a very obvious contradiction. But, what've we
come to expect from the folks at FASA?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 15
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 13:38:31 +0100
> Actually, this one is to fuck the runners as they walk into a trap. They
> walk through a doorway without astral overwatch, and suddenly thier foci
> start to smoke as the ambush is sprung. Also has a chance of smoking
> quickenings, power foci, etc.

They deserve what they get if they walk into a building without at
least one of them percieving.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 16
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 23:08:23 +1000
Gurth writes:

> You can't make the AOE smaller in the design of the spell -- all spells have
> an AOE of (Magic) meters in radius, and this can be made larger and smaller
> by withdrawing dice from the Spell Success Test.

Except the barrier class of spells of course...

> How about the following spell:

[Spell deleted]

Sounds fine except for the fact that a Damaging Manipulation spell has to be
a physical spell. And physical spells effect the physical world, not the
astral.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 12:13:25 +0100
>Except the barrier class of spells of course...

Yes, but those you can form into a straight (or curved) line, not make their
radius larger or smaller. Plus that doesn't happen during spell design, but
during casting.

>Sounds fine except for the fact that a Damaging Manipulation spell has to be
>a physical spell. And physical spells effect the physical world, not the
>astral.

Then let's make it a combat spell...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And it rips my life away... But it's a great escape...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 18
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 21:18:07 +0930
Gurth wrote:
>
> >Sounds fine except for the fact that a Damaging Manipulation spell has to be
> >a physical spell. And physical spells effect the physical world, not the
> >astral.
>
> Then let's make it a combat spell...

Better yet, make a third category of spell: Astral, a subset of Mana (only
affects Astrally active targets). Give it the same Drain penalties/benefits
of Physical spells, and allow all Physical spells to have an Astral
counterpart.

Why would we want to? Damned if I know... But you'd think all those Astral
critters would have found a way to limit their spells to themselves.

Think of all the possible uses! A mage could cast an AstralBall at a group
of Insect spirits duelling it out with some sams. Dragons could use magical
effects against their opponents without harming their human allies! Free
spirits could have massive Astral duels with nothing leaking to the "real
world".

Gee... guess I'd better switch to decaf.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
Message no. 19
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 13:42:11 GMT
Gurth wrote:
> Yes, but those you can form into a straight (or curved) line, not make their
> radius larger or smaller. Plus that doesn't happen during spell design, but
> during casting.

I would have thought that you could alter the size of the barrier, probably
in the same way as altering Combat Spells burst-radius;
subtract one dice from the success test to make it larger by
one meter, and subtract two to reduce it (harder to control
it than to just let it go). Although in the case of barrier
spells, maybe the reduction of size shouldn't be more expensive
than increasing it.

Otherwise, that big barrier spell is going to stop you from moving down tight
alleys without dropping the thing first, and then re-upping it when you get
out into the open again.

'...The final thing, Phil Ward
it's not a drill. Runs-With-The-Pack
It's how many people I can kill' UWCC -: COMMMA
- Slayer P.Ward@**.cf.ac.uk
Message no. 20
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 10:38:40 -0500
>
> LISETTE M THERIOT writes:
>
> > That reminds me... somewhere in the grimiethingie it says that elemental
> > effects can only be used with pysical spells, and then they turn around and
> > give us Manablast.
> > HUH?????
>
> Exactly. "HUH?????". It is a very obvious contradiction. But, what've we
> come to expect from the folks at FASA?
>
What elemental effects does Manablast use????

Matt Hufstetler
Message no. 21
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 01:42:27 +1000
Robert Watkins writes:

> > Then let's make it a combat spell...

This can't be done, as it would be either a man spell or a physical spell.
If it were a mana spell, then it would not be area of effect when cast on an
astral target (since mana spells cast astrally only effect the target,
whether they're area of effect spells or not), and if it were a physical
spell, then it would ground out through the targets aura when it was cast
and take effect on the physical plane. This is so because one cannot aim
combat spells at a point in space, the only spells which can be used like
this are Damaging Manipulations.

> Better yet, make a third category of spell: Astral, a subset of Mana (only
> affects Astrally active targets). Give it the same Drain penalties/benefits
> of Physical spells, and allow all Physical spells to have an Astral
> counterpart.

But it does go against the SR magic ruleset a little. But if you do include
it, could you post back to the list sometime later and tell us how it goes?
I'd be curious to see if it radically alters astral combat or not.

> Why would we want to? Damned if I know... But you'd think all those Astral
> critters would have found a way to limit their spells to themselves.

Most astral critters don't use spells. Only certain free spirits use them
that I know of. And these are all free spirits once associated with mankind,
thus are a little different to regular astral beasties.

> Think of all the possible uses! A mage could cast an AstralBall at a group
> of Insect spirits duelling it out with some sams.

Yeah, you just evaded one of the main prblems of Combat spells. The fact
that you get _everybody_ in the area of effect. This way a magician could,
if wanting to cast an area of effect spell on the melee including several
spririts and allies, rather than lob in a Powerball and hit his friends too,
he could switch to astral perception, and lob in the astral version. Since
only the spirits are dual, only they would be effected.

> Dragons could use magical effects against their opponents without harming
> their human allies!

As if a dragon would care about hurting puny humans (allies or not)! :-)

> Free spirits could have massive Astral duels with nothing leaking to the
> "real world".

I'd think that free spirits could do that anyway. As the rules stand, they
could lob mana based spells at each other, and not have them ground, and
they could also (I guess) lob physical spells at each other - since there is
no physical component of the being for it to ground through, I assume the
spell only effects the target (alternatively the spell could just fizzle).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 22
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:31:02 +1000
Matt Hufstetler writes:

> What elemental effects does Manablast use????

Blast. Like the name suggests. But it has been correcetd in the eratta, and
no longer has the blast effect (I'm not sure if they modified the drain code
to reflect this or not though).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 23
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 20:07:00 -0500
Damion writes:
>
> Matt Hufstetler writes:
>
> > What elemental effects does Manablast use????
>
> Blast. Like the name suggests. But it has been correcetd in the eratta, and
> no longer has the blast effect (I'm not sure if they modified the drain code
> to reflect this or not though).
>
Aha! Yes, but does HellBLAST use the elemental effect of air? I think
everyone is just confusing the name with the actual game mechanics behind
it. Sure I've got this gun called the eviscerator, but does it eviscerate
people? Probably not, it will just eject a small piece of lead.

In the description, does it actually say, uses elemental effect? I
believe in the grimmy that Hellblast specifically says, fire elemental
effect. But since I'm having finals soon, all my RPG stuff is at home.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Matt 'Comatose Raspberry' Hufstetler
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt2778a
Internet: gt2778a@*****.gatech.edu
Message no. 24
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 01:06:58 +1000
Matt Hufstetler writes:

> Aha! Yes, but does HellBLAST use the elemental effect of air?

It doesn't say so, no.

> In the description, does it actually say, uses elemental effect?

The Manablast description actually says that the spell uses the elemental
effect of blast.

> I believe in the grimmy that Hellblast specifically says, fire elemental
> effect. But since I'm having finals soon, all my RPG stuff is at home.
> Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, you're wrong on two counts. Hellblast is from SRII, not the
Grimything. And it does not actually say it uses the elemental effect of
fire (or blast for that matter). So I decided to work out if it did. After
running the spell through the rules in the Grimything, I come up with a
Hellblast like spell (with the elemental effect of fire, but not blast),
with a drain code of [(F/2) +5]D instead of [(F/2) +6]D. Interesting neh?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 25
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 12:19:46 +0100
>Well, you're wrong on two counts. Hellblast is from SRII, not the
>Grimything. And it does not actually say it uses the elemental effect of
>fire (or blast for that matter). So I decided to work out if it did. After
>running the spell through the rules in the Grimything, I come up with a
>Hellblast like spell (with the elemental effect of fire, but not blast),
>with a drain code of [(F/2) +5]D instead of [(F/2) +6]D. Interesting neh?

I reverse-engineered Hellblast, and I found it didn't work out -- if you say
it has only one elemental effect (Blast or Fire), it should be [(f/2)+4]D,
and with two elemental effects (both Blast and Fire) it should be
[(f/2)+6]D... Something is wrong here I think...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The story you have just heard is true.
The names have not been changed to protect the guilty.
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 26
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 00:14:52 +1000
Gurth writes:

> I reverse-engineered Hellblast, and I found it didn't work out -- if you say
> it has only one elemental effect (Blast or Fire), it should be [(f/2)+4]D,
> and with two elemental effects (both Blast and Fire) it should be
> [(f/2)+6]D... Something is wrong here I think...

You sure about your calculations? I get it like this:

Base drain of D - It's a Deadly damage spell
+1 Drain Target for Physical spell
+1 Drain Level for Area-Effect spell (equals +2 Drain Target since it's
already Deadly)
+1 Drain Level for Elemental Effect [fire] (again, +2 Drain Target)

Final Drain code of [(F/2) +5]D

[(F/2) +7]D if you want Blast and Fire.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 27
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 11:27:27 +0100
>>it should be [(f/2)+6]D... Something is wrong here I think...
>
>You sure about your calculations? I get it like this:
>
>Final Drain code of [(F/2) +5]D
>
>[(F/2) +7]D if you want Blast and Fire.

Err, I see what I did wrong. I assumed Hellblast had a drain of [(f/2)+5]D
when I wrote the message, but I just looked it up and it says "+6" What I
meant to say in my original post on this drain was that it should be +5 or
+7, like you calculated :) I think it should be +7, since it appears to use
both Blast and Fire.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The story you have just heard is true.
The names have not been changed to protect the guilty.
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 28
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 21:48:06 -0500
>
> >Well, you're wrong on two counts. Hellblast is from SRII, not the
> >Grimything. And it does not actually say it uses the elemental effect of
> >fire (or blast for that matter). So I decided to work out if it did. After
> >running the spell through the rules in the Grimything, I come up with a
> >Hellblast like spell (with the elemental effect of fire, but not blast),
> >with a drain code of [(F/2) +5]D instead of [(F/2) +6]D. Interesting neh?
>
> I reverse-engineered Hellblast, and I found it didn't work out -- if you say
> it has only one elemental effect (Blast or Fire), it should be [(f/2)+4]D,
> and with two elemental effects (both Blast and Fire) it should be
> [(f/2)+6]D... Something is wrong here I think...
>

Is all this with the stupid bonus game effects? In addition to the
elemental effects?

Matt 'Comatose Raspberry' Hufstetler
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt2778a
Internet: gt2778a@*****.gatech.edu
Message no. 29
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spell ideas
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 13:23:43 +1000
Matt Hufstetler writes:

>
> [Hellblast is wock]
>
> Is all this with the stupid bonus game effects? In addition to the
> elemental effects?

Not likely, what would the bonus game effect be for? It is a straight,
simple combat spell, no fancy things or effects about it.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
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b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+

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