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Message no. 1
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell Locks on mundanes
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 12:35:01 -0400
On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Jeffrey Riordan wrote:

> I think you're wrong about the locking point of karma. Any character
> can pay the Karma point for the bonding. True only a mage or shaman
> can actually bond it and activate or deactivate it.

I'm pretty sure that it has to be done by the mage who casts the
spell. He or she is, after all, putting a bit of his or her own magical
energy into the lock to sustain the spell in their absence.
If such is the case, then the astral trail would most certainly
lead back to the mage.

> I believe in the Grimoire they go into detail about someone
> finding a weapon Foci and wanting to be able to use it for themselves.

The example you speak of is an enchanter/purchasing mage "first
bonding" discount. Mundanes can't even use weapon foci. The only magic
item that non-mages can actively wield and control are anchored items,
which is why anchoring is so karmically expensive and difficult. And
even anchoring needs to have the karma paid by the magician who anchored it.
Also, karma should not be player-to-player transferrable. The
only thing that can receive and use someone else's karma (to my
knowledge) is a Free Spirit.
Even if the rules denote otherwise, I would advise against it.
If you let the character who is receiving the lock/quickening/whatever,
then these things will proliferate in a typically out of hand manner.
And yes, this is the voice of experience talking. If, on the other hand,
you make the casting mage pay the karma cost, the mage player will tend
to keep this to a minimum to conserve karma for advancement/initiation
and to reduce the number of astral links pointing back to him.

Marc
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell Locks on mundanes
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:04:16 -0400
>>>>> "Marc" == Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
writes:

Marc> On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Jeffrey Riordan wrote:
>> I think you're wrong about the locking point of karma. Any character
>> can pay the Karma point for the bonding. True only a mage or shaman
>> can actually bond it and activate or deactivate it.

Marc> I'm pretty sure that it has to be done by the mage who
Marc> casts the spell. He or she is, after all, putting a bit of his or
Marc> her own magical energy into the lock to sustain the spell in their
Marc> absence.

Marc is correct; the mage who casts the spell must spend the karma to
bond the lock. The act of spending the karma point is what causes the
bond to occour.

Marc> If such is the case, then the astral trail would most
Marc> certainly lead back to the mage.

Which is exactly what happens.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 3
From: John IV <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell Locks on mundanes
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 12:59:58 -0600
On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Marc A Renouf wrote:

> > I think you're wrong about the locking point of karma. Any character
> > can pay the Karma point for the bonding. True only a mage or shaman
> > can actually bond it and activate or deactivate it.
>
> I'm pretty sure that it has to be done by the mage who casts the
> spell. He or she is, after all, putting a bit of his or her own magical
> energy into the lock to sustain the spell in their absence.
> If such is the case, then the astral trail would most certainly
> lead back to the mage.

I think he's talking about anchoring. In that case, a mundane _can_
expend the karma (which, admittedly, is a _large_ amount). But with a
spell lock and any other type of focus, it is the mage or adept who must
pay the karma. The karma is spent at the time of casting, to _bond_ the
spell lock, then another mage or shaman of the respective tradition can
_activate_ it and put it on the desired recipient.

[delete]

John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
sixty of you looking at me like that?"

--Cornfed, from _Duckman_
Message no. 4
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell Locks on Mundanes
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 15:44:30 -0400
Rat wrote:

>Marc is correct; the mage who casts the spell must spend the karma to
>bond the lock. The act of spending the karma point is what causes the
>bond to occour.

Actually, the wording in the rules is a little ambiguous on this one. It does
state that the spell must be cast and the karma must be spent simultaneously
(presumeably to prevent re-casting without repaying karma if it doesn't score
the desired number of successes), but the rules never state that only the
casting mage can pay the karma. Now, there is always the possibility that
there is a rules clarification somewhere that I haven't seen, but as far as the
Grimmie and the main book are concerned, I don't think it's clarified any
further than that.

Now, as it's been stated, it may not be a good idea to allow *anyone* (btw: I
do agree that karma isn't freely transferrable, but the rules allow limited
forms of this, however) to pay the karma for a spell lock. It could very
easily lead to lots of spell locks (not that this problem isn't easily solved
in a number of ways...). Perhaps (and this is only a suggestion) only a mage
can pay the karma, but not necessarily the casting mage (still done
simultaneously, of course). Say Joe mage wants an armor spell, but does not
know the spell....he has his contact cast the spell, but he pays for the lock,
and pays the karma point....it's now astrally bound to him....

Just a thought.


Justin :)

_______________________________________________________________
(jpinnow@*****.edu)

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Message no. 5
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spell Locks on Mundanes
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 16:01:31 -0400
>>>>> "Justin" == Justin Pinnow
<jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU> writes:

Justin> Actually, the wording in the rules is a little ambiguous on this
Justin> one.

Actually, no it isn't. It says the mage casts the spell, spends the
karma, and bonds the spell lock. Nothing ambiguous about it.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 6
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.GOV>
Subject: Re: Spell Locks on mundanes -Reply
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 17:27:04 -0400
Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
> Also, karma should not be player-to-player transferrable. The only
> thing that can receive and use someone else's karma (to my >
knowledge) is a Free Spirit.
Actually I can think of one example of Karma being used on behalf of
other players. Another Astral Group member can front the 3 Karma it
takes for runner to join an Astral group (new or existing group). I agree
that it shouldn't be "normally" transferable between characters but if it is
being used to improve the character spending the points then why not.
I think I have a different view of Karma in that it is a general way to
improve you character. They could just as easily called it Experience
Points or brownie points etc. The main point of Karma is to improve the
character for things that he/she has done.
Yes, you have to find a mage to do the actual handywork because
that's there profession. However if you learn a skill from someone does
the teacher spend the Karma to teach you? I've never seen any GM do
that.

> then these things will proliferate in a typically out of hand manner.

This is true but when you realise the risk involved when using one of
these things like being attacked from Astral space with out warning they
balance out the benefits. Who would you attack with a Sleep spell? The
mage with 4 foci active or the Rigger with a spell lock on him? I know I
wouldn't want to associate to often with a person who had a running
spell lock and had know way of defending/detecting unfreindly activites.

Jeff

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Spell Locks on mundanes, you may also be interested in:

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