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Message no. 1
From: Neil Smith <NSMITH@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Spells and fibre optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 10:41:19 GMT
Given that glass between a magician and a spell's target does not
affect LOS, and mirrors allow magicians to cast spells "round
corners", it does not seem unreasonable to suggest that spells can be
cast "through" optical fibres (light is transmitted through the glass
and kept in the fibre by reflections).

This suggests a new sneaky spellcasting trick. Stick an endoscope in
a wall/under a door or somesuch (as per the film "Patriot Games")
with one end pointing at the target and a magician at the other.
Magician sees target through endoscope and casts Hellblast or
somesuch. Target has no idea where the spell came from, as the
magician's aura will not project through the (hidden) end of the
(long) endoscope! With planning and a bit of time, fibre optics can
be strung throughout a compound and a single magician can sit in one
room and see all the others! Magical support wherever needed!

Go on, why am I wrong? 8-)

Neil.
Message no. 2
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Spells and fibre optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 12:12:06 +0100
> This suggests a new sneaky spellcasting trick. Stick an endoscope in
> a wall/under a door or somesuch (as per the film "Patriot Games")

Oh no not again!!! not the patriot-games-fiber-optics-loophole
*me running throught corridors screaming !!!! :)

To give you a simple answer - they used a mini camera.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 3
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells and fibre optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 00:18:44 +1100
Neil Smith writes:

> Given that glass between a magician and a spell's target does not
> affect LOS, and mirrors allow magicians to cast spells "round
> corners", it does not seem unreasonable to suggest that spells can be
> cast "through" optical fibres (light is transmitted through the glass
> and kept in the fibre by reflections).
>
> This suggests a new sneaky spellcasting trick. Stick an endoscope in
> a wall/under a door or somesuch (as per the film "Patriot Games")

You asked if you were wrong?

Well, in a word, yes.

Give the physics geeks on the list about 24 hours and they'll shoot the
idea down in flames - same as last time. It has something to do with the
fact that the "light" which gets sent down optical fibres is _not_ light in
the way you are thinking it is. Apparently it needs to be enocded or some
such thing, and this is a digital process. One cannot merely send pure
optical images down an optical fibre. But like I said, let the real
heavywieghts give you a couple of ten pages essays on the subject and you'll
see what I mean. [Wish you luck, I'd be unsubscribing for a few days about
now :-), actually, this might be a perfect time for me to learn how to do
mail filtering ...]

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 4
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells and fibre optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 23:33:10 +0930
Neil Smith wrote:
>
> Given that glass between a magician and a spell's target does not
> affect LOS, and mirrors allow magicians to cast spells "round
> corners", it does not seem unreasonable to suggest that spells can be
> cast "through" optical fibres (light is transmitted through the glass
> and kept in the fibre by reflections).
>
> This suggests a new sneaky spellcasting trick. Stick an endoscope in
> a wall/under a door or somesuch (as per the film "Patriot Games")
> with one end pointing at the target and a magician at the other.
> Magician sees target through endoscope and casts Hellblast or
> somesuch. Target has no idea where the spell came from, as the
> magician's aura will not project through the (hidden) end of the
> (long) endoscope! With planning and a bit of time, fibre optics can
> be strung throughout a compound and a single magician can sit in one
> room and see all the others! Magical support wherever needed!
>
> Go on, why am I wrong? 8-)
>

Fibre optic "spy cameras" like the type shown in Patriot Games use
electronic enhancement. So you can't zap through it.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
Message no. 5
From: Bryan Prince <prince%xray.dnet@******.ROC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 08:55:08 -0500
How about this twist?
Your combat mage with cybereyes and a datajack can cast spells, right?
Why can't he hook up to the building monitors and cast spells from the
security room? His visual input is the same, and according to FASA's
rules he can cast spells with cybereyes because he paid the essence
for them? Anyone care to take a shot at this?
Shadowmaster
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 00:00:42 +0930
Bryan Prince wrote:
>
> How about this twist?
> Your combat mage with cybereyes and a datajack can cast spells, right?
> Why can't he hook up to the building monitors and cast spells from the
> security room? His visual input is the same, and according to FASA's
> rules he can cast spells with cybereyes because he paid the essence
> for them? Anyone care to take a shot at this?

Hmm... well, I hadn't heard this before.

Answer's still no, though. You haven't paid for the light-to-electrical
stuff with essence (ie, the cameras).

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Finger me for my geek code
Message no. 7
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 17:05:20 +0100
> How about this twist?
> Your combat mage with cybereyes and a datajack can cast spells, right?
> Why can't he hook up to the building monitors and cast spells from the
> security room? His visual input is the same, and according to FASA's
> rules he can cast spells with cybereyes because he paid the essence
> for them? Anyone care to take a shot at this?

As you said a mage that paid essence for his cybereyes can cast through
them - Did the mage who wants to cast spells through a buildings cameras
pay essence for all those cameras ?
This "pay-in-essence-so-you-can-use-them" argument is just a crapy
rules fix to allow mages to use cyberware like cybereyes. I think
that the rule from the Germany Sourcebook (abbout the C priority
Magic dudes who can only assence) is much better - you loose your
eyes - you cant see.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 8
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 12:46:06 -0500
>>>>> "John" == John Fikouras
<feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE> writes:

John> This "pay-in-essence-so-you-can-use-them" argument is just a crapy
John> rules fix to allow mages to use cyberware like cybereyes.

That assumes that you're using your eyes to see into astral space, which I
disagree with. It's another sense, with another set of sensory organs.
Astral ``sight'' is a misnomer of convenience because it can't be described
to someone without it. How do you explain the concept of ``color'' to a
blind man?

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! | head.
Message no. 9
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells and fibre optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:34:25 +1100
Neil Smith considered:

> it does not seem unreasonable to suggest that spells can be
> cast "through" optical fibres (light is transmitted through the glass
> and kept in the fibre by reflections).

Well, if you need yet another reason why this wouldn't work:

remember the admonition in the Grimoire (?) about magic being
a sort of everything-behind-it thing? And that a mage who tried
to cast a spell through a keyhole in a door would likely be
unpleasantly surprised when his spell misfired badly ...

But I'm sure there's lots of mundane ways of using an endoscope
where a little creativity would go a long way. :-)

luke
Message no. 10
From: pran r mukherjee <pran@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 18:05:45 -0400
On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Bryan Prince wrote:

> How about this twist?
> Your combat mage with cybereyes and a datajack can cast spells, right?
> Why can't he hook up to the building monitors and cast spells from the
> security room? His visual input is the same, and according to FASA's
> rules he can cast spells with cybereyes because he paid the essence
> for them? Anyone care to take a shot at this?
> Shadowmaster
>
Are you trying to suggest someone paying essence for a BUILDING?! Or at
least its sensors? And no, you can't use a datajack for spells, because
the data has to be encoded, even if it's just dumped to your eyes via
display link, it's still encoded when it enters your datajack.
Message no. 11
From: Richard Osterhout <Bitrunner@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and fibre optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 19:09:19 -0500
Neil Smith writes:

> Given that glass between a magician and a spell's target does not
> affect LOS, and mirrors allow magicians to cast spells "round
> corners", it does not seem unreasonable to suggest that spells can be
> cast "through" optical fibres (light is transmitted through the glass
> and kept in the fibre by reflections).
>
> This suggests a new sneaky spellcasting trick. Stick an endoscope in
> a wall/under a door or somesuch (as per the film "Patriot Games")

then Damion comments:

> You asked if you were wrong?
>
> Well, in a word, yes.
>
> Give the physics geeks on the list about 24 hours and they'll
> shoot the idea down in flames - same as last time. It has
> something to do with the fact that the "light" which gets sent
> down optical fibres is _not_ light in the way you are thinking
> it is. Apparently it needs to be enocded or some such thing,
> and this is a digital process. One cannot merely send pure
> optical images down an optical fibre. But like I said, let the
> real heavywieghts give you a couple of ten pages essays on the
> subject and you'll see what I mean. [Wish you luck, I'd be
> unsubscribing for a few days about now :-), actually, this
> might be a perfect time for me to learn how to do mail
> filtering ...]

well, Damion, and any others that agree with him, i only have one thing to
say...

DON'T BUY THE CORPORATE SECURITY SOURCEBOOK!!!!!

it's liable to give you ulcers...the author has proposed using fibre optics
for casting spells, as long as the fibres are hand drawn natural glass rather
than synthetic, machined fibres - the end of the fibre has a prism attached
to enable the mage to see the image...they will be thicker than normal fibre
and much more expensive, but mages will still be able to cast through them...
Message no. 12
From: Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 18:32:52 -0600
About casting spells through goggles, cameras, cybereys...
Aren't you Synchronizing the spell with the aura of the target, and
therfore astrally percieving the moment you cast a spell.
What I mean is that you need LOS to cast a spell because you need to be
able to assence the aura of the target(s). Therefore any remote sensing
device doesn't work because you can't "see" the aura. I usually
have my mages Astrally Percieving most of the time anyways. If something
is in A.Space it's gonna manifest and get you sooner or later, you can
protect your foci and locks, and see through invisibility and stuff.
Sean
Message no. 13
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 19:39:13 -0500
On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Sean Sheridan wrote:

> I usualy have my mages Astrally Percieving most of the time anyways. If
> something is in A.Space it's gonna manifest and get you sooner or
> later, you can protect your foci and locks, and see through
> invisibility and stuff.

And you can also be a target to that Grade 3 Initiate and his
Force 8 Air elemental buddy who are hanging out waiting for you in Astral
Space.

Marc
Message no. 14
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:46:08 +1100
Sean Sheridan writes:

> About casting spells through goggles, cameras, cybereys...
> Aren't you Synchronizing the spell with the aura of the target, and
> therfore astrally percieving the moment you cast a spell.

That's what the rules say, but I wouldn't prod the explanation
too hard. :-)

Unless you think it's reasonable that a mage casting Sleep into
a dense crowd of (hmm, pi R^2...) 200 people can synchronise the
spell with 200 auras in a fraction of a second.

I still think that you should try to follow the spirit of the rules,
with an eye on game balance, rather than the letter of the law.
Especially if I'm right, and the magic rules lead to inconsistencies. :-)

luke
Message no. 15
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:20:06 +1100
Stainless Steel Rat writes:

> John> This "pay-in-essence-so-you-can-use-them" argument is just a
crapy
> John> rules fix to allow mages to use cyberware like cybereyes.
>
> That assumes that you're using your eyes to see into astral space, which I
> disagree with. It's another sense, with another set of sensory organs.
> Astral ``sight'' is a misnomer of convenience because it can't be described
> to someone without it. How do you explain the concept of ``color'' to a
> blind man?

I think Rat has a good point here. Just assume, for the sake of my argument,
that Rat is right. Mages (and other astrally aware people and beings) have
some other "sense" which allows them to "see" on the astral. Now,
would it
not make logical sense that in order for people to "see" people on the
astral, they need to have direct LOS to their target? Now, going on the
"synchronising auras" bit. In order for you to cast a spell at some one, you
need to be able to "see" them with your astral "sight". This means you
need
to be able to "see" them through the astral plane (for the tiny moment of
astral preception involved in spell casting). In order for you to do this,
there needs to be no interrupting astral onjects (and remember, walls and
stuff block LOS in the astral). Now, looking at all the FASA rules on
cybereyes, cameras and so on, it comes out that a mage can cast a spell at
anyone he can get a direct _astral_ LOS to. (Exception: mirrors, I'm not
sure how to handle these.) Now, if this makes any sense at all to you people
out there, can you see what I'm getting at? It is irrelivent whether the
magician has paid essence for the cybereyes, since he uses some other sence
which has astral LOS restrictions to actually send the spell to his target.
This cannot be done with a camera, since on the astral, the magician cannot
actually see his target (probably due to the BR 36 walls of the bunker he
would be hiding in). This also accounts for the rule that mages can use
technological image enhancing devices to target spells (like ultrasound
goggles and so on), because they will still have a direct astral LOS to their
target. What it doesn't accout for (besides mirrors) is why mages can't use
electronic binoculars. If anyone follows what I just tried to get accros,
what do you think?

Richard Osterhout writes:

> well, Damion, and any others that agree with him, i only have one thing to
> say...
>
> DON'T BUY THE CORPORATE SECURITY SOURCEBOOK!!!!!
>
> it's liable to give you ulcers...the author has proposed using fibre optics
> for casting spells, as long as the fibres are hand drawn natural glass rather
> than synthetic, machined fibres - the end of the fibre has a prism attached
> to enable the mage to see the image...they will be thicker than normal fibre
> and much more expensive, but mages will still be able to cast through them...

Can I make a request for some physics geek to explain to me (us) how fibre
optic cables are made, and if it is possible to make a "natural" one?

Luke Kendall writes:

> That's what the rules say, but I wouldn't prod the explanation
> too hard. :-)

But you do luke. All the time.

> Unless you think it's reasonable that a mage casting Sleep into
> a dense crowd of (hmm, pi R^2...) 200 people can synchronise the
> spell with 200 auras in a fraction of a second.

Well, why not? The huamn brain is a mighty powerful tool. Even something as
mundane as catching a ball involves an awful lot of calculation, and you
don't even realise it's going on.

> I still think that you should try to follow the spirit of the rules,
> with an eye on game balance, rather than the letter of the law.
> Especially if I'm right, and the magic rules lead to inconsistencies. :-)

This is true. But it's always nice to know the answer to something, and
resolve it, rather than merely saying "It doesn't, becasue it would muck
with the almighty Game Balance".

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 16
From: Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 21:11:07 -0600
WOW. There is a whole lot to this spell thingy. PART ONE:
ASTRAL SIGHT. Though astral perception isn't exactly sight, we do use
the word sight in the description. SO, it would follow that astral sight
behaves in a fashion similar to regular sight EXCEPT for the fact that it
works on the astral plane. SO, technological/processed materials that affect
regular sight don't necesarliy effect astral sight. IE cameras and elec.
sights. BUT, mirrors and windows and prisms all have SIMPLE optical effects
that could be mirrored in astral space. So maybe auras are reflected by
a mirrors astral reflectivness, and carried inside really wierd systems
of prisms and mirrors that get focused with glass lenses at the end. So
we might be able get away with that Corp Book Thing.
TWO:
GAME BALANCE. It's dumb. Miniguns aren't very balanced. nor are Tanks,
or NUKES!! But they exist. SO just saying game balance isn't good
enough to defeat the security camera via datajacks, but you CAN say
that security cameras don't carry Astral Auras.
WHEW, that was a mouthfull. I probably missed some points from the earlier
messages but I didn't want to include them cuz they are LONG.
Sean
Message no. 17
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 22:41:14 -0500
>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU> writes:

Sean> PART ONE: ASTRAL SIGHT. Though astral perception isn't exactly sight,
Sean> we do use the word sight in the description. SO, it would follow that
Sean> astral sight behaves in a fashion similar to regular sight EXCEPT for
Sean> the fact that it works on the astral plane.

That's a bad assumption, IMO. Do you use your eyes to hear, or your ears to
taste, or your fingers to smell? No. Each sense has it's own sensory
aparatus, and that's not limited to the human senses. Why shouldn't astral
senses be any different? ``Sight'' is a convenient label we use because
there's no way to explain it to someone who can't perceive it. Yeah, that
opens up a few other cans of worms, but it closes off so many other
inconsistancies that it makes a good start if you're attempting to create a
unified magical theory.

Sean> SO, technological/processed materials that affect regular sight don't
Sean> necesarliy effect astral sight. IE cameras and elec. sights. BUT,
Sean> mirrors and windows and prisms all have SIMPLE optical effects that
Sean> could be mirrored in astral space.

Normal laws of nature and physics do not apply in astral space (no
conservation of momentum and energy, for example). Using natural laws to
explain astral space won't work.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox |
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 18
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 14:42:29 +1100
Sean Sheridan writes:

> GAME BALANCE. It's dumb. Miniguns aren't very balanced. nor are Tanks,
> or NUKES!! But they exist. SO just saying game balance isn't good
> enough to defeat the security camera via datajacks

Well, I think it is more a matter of the pros and cons of the idea. All the
things you suggested are more powerful, but they all have downsides (extreme
difficulty to obtain, extreme penalties for use, and so on), whereas "Magic
Thru a Camera" is simple, easy and _terribly_ effective. And available to
any man and his dog (or mage and his dog as the case may be) to do. That is
where the imbalance in Game Balance lies.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 19
From: Jason Larke <jlarke@**.ITD.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 22:58:36 -0500
In message <9503020311.AA02298@****.cs.wisc.edu>you write:
>GAME BALANCE. It's dumb. Miniguns aren't very balanced. nor are Tanks,
>or NUKES!! But they exist. SO just saying game balance isn't good
>enough to defeat the security camera via datajacks, but you CAN say
>that security cameras don't carry Astral Auras.
>WHEW, that was a mouthfull. I probably missed some points from the earlier
>messages but I didn't want to include them cuz they are LONG.

Not so. Game Balance is very real. Why?

Remember that your players, while smart, are not the only smart
people in the world. They are a few out of thousands. That means
that the odds of someone in your group thinking up the One Clever
Thing that defeats security systems, or whatever, are low. And if
it does happen, remember that the corporations will examine it,
copy it, and protect against it before too long.

Game Balance is reflective of this fact. If something seems so
cool that invalidates a lot of what has gone before, like a
tactic that defeats all security systems or a spell that can
take out almost any vehicle, we say it's bad for Game Balance,
but what we mean is, it doesn't work with the way the world is
structured. If it was that easy, things wouldn't be set up the
way thay are.

But all the corps in the world *do* have these devices, people
*do* rely on expensive vehicles, and that implies that the
smartest people in the corps of the world have been unable to
routinely defeat those measures. Ergo, for most games, the
runners shouldn't be able to routinely defeat them either. It
should be a unique challenge each time.

Of course, some games have the players set as the smartest people
in the world. In those games, balance is less of an issue. You
*want* the PCs to turn the world around. For those games, hey, do
whatcha like.

As always, you mileage may vary.

Real programmers can write assembly code in any language. :-)
--Larry Wall in <8571@**********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jason Larke- jlarke@*****.edu- sysadmin, philosophy guy, and Rush fan |
| "I drink the blood of my enemies," Hawk said, and smiled his happy grin. |
|I don't speak for ITD-LSA, U-M, or the international communist conspiracy.|
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 20
From: Michael Eames <eames@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 21:51:42 -0800
On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Bryan Prince wrote:

> How about this twist?
> Your combat mage with cybereyes and a datajack can cast spells, right?
> Why can't he hook up to the building monitors and cast spells from the
> security room? His visual input is the same, and according to FASA's
> rules he can cast spells with cybereyes because he paid the essence
> for them? Anyone care to take a shot at this?
> Shadowmaster
>
In "Fields of Fire" (of all places) iit specifically states the a Spell
caster can cast spells through cyber eyes as he paid essence for 'em and
the have thus become a part of his/her body. I don't think you will be
wanting to pay essnce for a whole buildings worth anytime soon.
Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:40:39 +0100
>Can I make a request for some physics geek to explain to me (us) how fibre
>optic cables are made, and if it is possible to make a "natural" one?

One way I can imagine is if you heat a glass rod and then gently pull the
ends away from each other. In that way the hot glass is stretched thinner.
You'd have to be pretty good to make a usuable fiberoptic, though, but glass
(once you get the hang of it) is easy to stretch to long lengths. You also
have to use glass that you can bend safely without breaking it if you want
to use it for optical fibers.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's the first draft Of a worst case scenario
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:40:41 +0100
>GAME BALANCE. It's dumb. Miniguns aren't very balanced. nor are Tanks,
>or NUKES!! But they exist.

Nukes aren't in the "official" rules, so you can't say they unbalance the
game (but I bet they would :). The only "tank" for which we have stats is
pretty wimpy as far as tanks go. An armor of only 18?? IMO the GMC Banshee
is the equivalent of an MICV/IFV/ICV or whatever yo want to name it, and not
a tank. OK, maybe a light tank. Miniguns may be able to fire loads of
rounds, but they _always_ fire 15 rounds, which means lots of recoil as
well, so you'll likely miss a lot with them. Mounting one on a gyro mount
(7) and putting a gas vent (4) onto it, plus shock pads (if your GM allows
that combination) still gives you a recoil of +6... Granted, if you hit the
target is fish food.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's the first draft Of a worst case scenario
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 23
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:15:23 +0100
> That assumes that you're using your eyes to see into astral space, which I
> disagree with. It's another sense, with another set of sensory organs.
> Astral ``sight'' is a misnomer of convenience because it can't be described
> to someone without it. How do you explain the concept of ``color'' to a
> blind man?

Good point, I concur :)

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 24
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:04:50 +0100
> Nukes aren't in the "official" rules, so you can't say they unbalance the
> game (but I bet they would :). The only "tank" for which we have stats is
> pretty wimpy as far as tanks go. An armor of only 18?? IMO the GMC Banshee
> is the equivalent of an MICV/IFV/ICV or whatever yo want to name it, and not
> a tank. OK, maybe a light tank. Miniguns may be able to fire loads of
> rounds, but they _always_ fire 15 rounds, which means lots of recoil as
> well, so you'll likely miss a lot with them. Mounting one on a gyro mount
> (7) and putting a gas vent (4) onto it, plus shock pads (if your GM allows
> that combination) still gives you a recoil of +6... Granted, if you hit the
> target is fish food.

You can also put a separate gasvent on each barrel (the ex-DLoH said so)
so lesee we have 6 barrels and that makes 15/6 = 2.5. You put 2.5 points
of recoil compensation on each barrel and you are ready to rock and roll :)

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 25
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics (fwd)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 15:07:05 +0100
Forwarded message:
Message no. 26
From: "Damion Milliken" <adm82@***.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 00:07:36 +1100 (EST)
Jani Fikouras writes:

> [Cool explanation concerning cyber eyes, LOS and astral]

Thanks, I wasn't so sure it made sense at all.

> I fully agree, we came to the same same conclusion simultaniusly :)
> Well sortof - virtually - :) if you leave the timezones out of it :)

Really? Cool. ["Great minds think alike", isn't that how the quote goes? :-)]

> > > they will be thicker than normal fibre and much more expensive, but
> > > mages will still be able to cast through them...
>
> This is probaby the only thing that doesn agree with our theory.

Hmm, yeah. Have you read Chris's explanation? About integration into the
magicians aura? I think he has a better explanation than we do, I can't find
any holes in it yet, what about you? And anyone else too, if you care to
look. It allows for complex set ups of lens's and mirrors for remote
spellcasting though, so I don't know if it's too good for the good old "Game
Balance", but it fits the rules as they stand.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a18 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+


--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 27
From: Luc <rjwate01@********.SPD.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:38:57 EST
>
> How about this twist?
> Your combat mage with cybereyes and a datajack can cast spells, right?
> Why can't he hook up to the building monitors and cast spells from the
> security room? His visual input is the same, and according to FASA's
> rules he can cast spells with cybereyes because he paid the essence
> for them? Anyone care to take a shot at this?
> Shadowmaster
>
No. Simply because he didn't pay essence for the building monitors (which
would be real expensive :> )

Luc
Message no. 28
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:10:02 -0800
On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Damion Milliken wrote:

> Can I make a request for some physics geek to explain to me (us) how fibre
> optic cables are made, and if it is possible to make a "natural" one?

Start with a glass cylinder about 15 cm long and 2 cm in diameter.
Dope the outside layer with various impurities (just a fancy way
of saying mix in impurities in the outside layer). Now, basically, heat
the glass, feed it into an extruder, and stretch the material out for
several miles into hair-fine cabling (I seem to remember the figure 7
miles per unit of glass, err thats 11.2 km).
When heated and extruded, the impurities are absorbed into the
material, with the greatest concentration being the outside layer and a
constantly decreasing concentration as one progresses towards the
center. These impurities provide a differentially increasing index of
refraction from the center, so the center of the light-pipe has the most
signal transmissibility and if signals get "off course" the increasing
index of refraction will bend the signal back towards center.
When soliton wave packets are used, signal degradation from
frequency spreading and energy loss mechanisms in the wave are
eliminated, and signal strength becomes solely dependent upon the clarity
of the optical medium. Consequently, fiber-optics are made *very* pure.
Of course, no one uses solitons yet, so current methods allow fiber-optic
signals about 1500 meters before requiring an amplifier (compared with
100 meters for 10BaseT).
As for making this stuff naturally, perhaps a very skilled
glassblower could make some short segments, but not extensive lengths
that would be usable in a building, say. She'd have to join lengths of
her hand-blown glass cables, and every time one joins together any sort
of cabling, there are losses.

> Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

========================================================================
Adam Getchell "Invincibility is in oneself,
acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu vulnerability in the opponent."
http://instruction.ucdavis.edu/html/Adam/getchell.html
Message no. 29
From: pran r mukherjee <pran@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:35:42 -0400
Regarding this entire "astral sight" and "aural synching" thing, one
point: Sorcery adepts cannot even use astral perception/projection, this
becomes a moot point. They can cast spells without "seeing" auras at
all. The LOS thing is merely used for targeting, and it must be direct
because of the way magic works. 'Nuff said.
Message no. 30
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spells and Fibre Optics
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 11:20:33 +0100
> As for making this stuff naturally, perhaps a very skilled
>glassblower could make some short segments, but not extensive lengths
>that would be usable in a building, say. She'd have to join lengths of
>her hand-blown glass cables, and every time one joins together any sort
>of cabling, there are losses.

Like I said, you can stretch glass by heating it. You could reach maybe a
meter (because you can only stretch it as far as your arms allow if you do
it by yourself), but that would be long enough to look through most walls.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Walk this world with me
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?

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