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Message no. 1
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:44:04 EST
Here is my take on how some of the Utility options can be applied to spells
...

Area (+1 Drain Power) ....... This makes a spell have an area of effect equal
to the force of the spell and not that of the casting mage's Magical
attribute.

SINAB (+3 Drain Category) .... This is something that gives a spell the
limited ability to cast itself, should the mage choose to do so, and the
acronym aptly become Spellcaster-IN-a-Box. The mage still resists the drain
as if having cast the spell normally, and for the purposes of combat, this
spell would only be considered a Simple Action, though a +1 modifier will be
added to any actions that are also performed on the same combat phase. The
SINAB skill is limited by the Sorcery skill of the mage. The spell only rolls
the level of it's SINAB, and does not gain the bonus of rolling the spell's
force as additional dice.

Limit ................. This is already in the books, just called Restricted
and Very Restricted Target.

One-Shot ......... This would be one of the more fascinating options to apply
to a spell ... a spell that is useful only once and then mage would have to go
about relearning the spell all over again, which would also include
redesigning it again also. For this spell, the karma cost for the spell is
reduced to 25% of the normal cost for the same spell normally.

Penetration (+2 Drain Category) ... This option reduces the effectiveness of
Spell Defense and Initiate Shielding, and cuts their effectiveness by 50%.

Sensitive ........... again is in the books as either Restricted or Very
Restricted Target only.

Skulk (+1 Drain Power / Point) .... This option makes it harder for a spell to
be noticed by someone else, and the target number modifier is figured at the
designing of the spell, and this then becomes an addition to the target number
for detecting the spell. The maximum level of Skulk for a spell is equal to
the force of the spell. If the spell is cast at a lower force, then the Skulk
will also worked on a reduced basis.

Spell Intelligence ... here is where the fun begins ...

A note to this, when a spell of this calibre is learned, the spell is only
castable at that force only. This is a parting from base SR rules.

Dumb Spell (+3 Drain Category) ........ The spell gains a level of
intelligence equal to the force of the spell. For purposes of comparing the
Intelligence attribute, treat the spell as if it were a watcher spirit. This
spell also incurs the +2 sustaining modifier that is normally associated with
sustaining a spell, if the spell is sustainable. And this spell also counts
against the number of spirits that a mage can have controlled at any one time
also.

Smart Spell (+5 Drain Category) .... The same as for the Dumb spell, except
that the spell's Intelligence is considerably greater. The spell also gains
it's own SINAB and a reaction attribute equal to either 10 (manifest) or 20
(astral) plus the force of the spell. This option also requires that the
spell also be given the modifier for Permanent spell effects. In addition,
each spell of this type when cast also counts against the mages maximum number
of spirits that they can have summoned at any one time.
Message no. 2
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:00:30 -0500
On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, AirWisp wrote:

> Okay, do you think increasing the cost of Smart Materials to equal 100 DP x
> Body of the vehicle is a bit too much, or is a much better cost than what it
> is currently ?

I would say for particularly large vehicles/vessels, stuff beyond the
normal Shadowrunner, this would work particularly for ships or spacecraft.
Otherwise, the regular DP seems to work reasonably.

> I wonder how much Smart Materials would cost for a naval vessel ? Do you
> think that Smart Materials on a submarine would allow it to go deeper than it
> already can ? Or would it just make the sub more silent by masking out the
> propellor / impellor noises ?

You could use the equation above for a base rate, for a large size naval
vessel - destroyer and up I would think and come away with a reasonable
cost.

As for it increasing depth, I would say that it would as SM handles
stress. Perhaps a 10 to 20% increase in depth, whether that is adjusted
automatically or have to be raised as per the acceleration, load, or speed
ratings...I could see it going either way....the Sig masking would be a
definite bonus....

Now here's a thought, using a system similar to what's on the Aguilar
helicopter, design a sub similar to the "Red October."

Rendar, the educated Ork Street Samurai.

"The Shadows are your friend. Intelligence, your ally. Negotiation, your
companion. Violence, your lover...but frag, chaos is your wife!"
-Summary of the run's results to a Johnson.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:39:42 PST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Spirits, Inhabiting, Possession and Hidden Life
Content-Type: text/plain

> That's not really very sound logic, since there are only a
couple ofcases of an insect spirit "departing" and AFAIK all of them
involve the possession being interrupted before it's complete. There is
no case, again AFAIK, of a bug departing after possession. Second, FASA
has never to my knowledge given us any other example of a spirit
inhabiting a (meta)human in a similar way. There are no other examples
of the Hidden Life power being used on a (meta)human. So it's pure
conjecture what would actually happen.

Posssesion / transormation is NOT a use of the hidden life power-
fleshforms do not have The powers confered by hidden life and true forms
totally destroy the body the infest. Also, bugs CAN be banished.
It may represent a form of possesion, but thier are obvious
differences.
Bugs are not free spirits- in fact, free bugs are quite rare
(excepting queens, who are alwys true form, or good merges in the case
of manti
Message no. 3
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:04:15 +0000
>b) OMCs cost 5¥ per Mp. (VR2.0) That means one full hermetic
>library chip with 1000 Mp would cost 5000¥.

Obviously, this includessome circuitry, and the lazers nedded to read
the OMC- a raw chip has none of theat, and requires a reader (with its
own memeory, for display)

>c) Computer memory (which is probably some form of OMCs, as it is
>non-violatile) is 20¥ per Mp. That is consistent with VR2.0 price for
OCCs (Optical Code Chips), with one problem - OCCs are ROM, not RAM, and
require burners to cook them. (Or a Worm IC ;P)

Similar to above. The volitile / non volitile thing is odd. I'dassume
they ARE different in formulation.

>d) Oh, yeah, my Wordman's equipment list says 500 Mp HD/DS mini-CDs
>cost 10¥, and OMCs cost 0.5¥ x memory... I don't have ShadowBeat,
>though, so I'm not sure if it's not just a typo...

No, thats right. Thatsthe cost fora blank, writeonly "chip", like you
would put in a chipjack or datajack or scan with your pocket secretary,
the equivilent of a microfloppy. I thought those required burners, too.

>Now, the question is: what is the price of a single OMC chip?

I guess it depends on what you need it for- which is reasonable. Whats
the price of avideo cassete? Well, a professional quality Hi-8 can be
$35, but crappy vhs can be $1. And similar cassetes designed for data
backup are different still.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:44:02 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <m009ig02@*****.mcmail.com>
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Spirits, Inhabiting, Possession
MIME-V
Message no. 4
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:08:15 EST
Are you referring to the Impellor Drive that the Red October had ? Check out
Amphibous Assault Package III in the R2 ...

Mike

"When all else fails, Hellblast the drek out of the place."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:55:55 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bull-In-the-Box
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980103084315.2dfffdbe@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jan 3,
98 08:46:52 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Bull hastily scribble thusly...
|
|OK, I've been watching this all for a little while now... Lots of
|discussion on theory, but you guys REALLY gotta relax a bit. :] I'm hoping
|for a cool little story, not a technical thesis on Minds in the Matrix <grin>
|
|That said, let me ask you guys a few things...
|
|First off, there has already been AI's hinted at in SR Game Products, and
|revealed in the novels (The one with Dodger.) An AI has got to almost as
|complex as the human brain, if not even more so. Now, since the question
|of memory has come up, where does an entity that resides completely in the
|matrix store it's data?

Sorry Bull, but an AI, even a BIG one, is nothing compared to the human
mind.
After all, it has resided in the Matrix all it's existence.
It doesn't have memories of the five senses to deal with, only the one
sense, and that is the movement of data in the Matrix.

The information from all the memories concerning those is probably enough to
take up the same amount of memory as an AI.

Add to that the complexity of the human mind, which is a LOT more complex
than an AI, after all, it has so many more levels to it.....


|If an AI (Like the one mentioned in Charrette's novel) affiliated with
|Renraku were to store it's "memories" on the Renraku database, especially
|if they were so large, wouldn;t that get noticed fairly rapidly? Or is it
|all spread out among the servers and data banks, so that the drain isnl;t
|so noticeable?
|
|If this is the case, couldn't Bull, if he had access through a back door to
|megacorps databanks, do something similar?

How would he handle the lag? It'd be nervous breakdown time.
thoughts flow in a natural, unhindered way. It's not a good idea to have to
access a different databank in order to complete one.

(And don't forget... Your personality is the sum of your
memories/experiences. Lock them all away in different datastores, and you
wouldn't be Bull anymore...)

|It's entirely possible that Aztech will have a Ghost in the Machine quite
|shortly :]

NOT a good place to hide. They could wipe you like *that*.
(All it takes is to switch off the machine, reformat the on-line storage,
and Bull would be dead. No self defense.)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:55:58 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.I
Message no. 5
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:16:01 +0000
Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:09:24 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Organization: Virtual Poetry
Subject: Re: Maskig Adept
In-Reply-To: <199801022229.RAA05252@*****.provide.net>

On 2 Jan 98 at 17:32, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> > > > Hmm...physads can do stuff mages can't.
>
> > > Phys-mages.
>
> > ....are optional. Besides, physmages are no normal mages. Just extended
> > phyads. (Keep in mind, they have no astral access...)
>
> That is incorrect. Physical Magicians have full access to astral
> perception and projection per the canon rules. Thus, they aren't expanded
> physical adepts, per se. They are a jack of all magical trades.


I don't have my Awakenings here (Damn, damn, DAMN!), but I'm really, really
sure they don't have access. The was something about them having to buy the
two-points astral-percpetion-power in the paragraph....Damn, I'm sure it was
there....



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:08:15 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol
Message no. 6
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:15:54 EST
Losthalo writes ...

> SINAB

<snip>

> This... I have a theoretical problem with. What, exactly, is casting the
> spell if it isn't the magician? Once the spell is in existence, it can
> carry out a program of events, affect a target, whatever, but it takes a
> magician shaping mana, to get the spell into existence in the first place.
> Is it his subconscious handling the spell for him, or what? The spell is
> just a pattern of ideas and methods for manipulating mana, sitting in the
> magician's memory, until he does something with it. How can a spell,
> sitting in your memory, cast itself? This makes it sound like a separate
> personality or something, prolly not what you intended. If it's just an
> easier-to-cast spell, that strikes me as counter to SR's system. I've
> always assumed spell formulae represented a good, ef
Message no. 7
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:50:07 -0500
At 11:56 AM 1/3/98 -0800, David R. Lowe wrote:
# <snip crash stuff>
#
# Most of the theories I've seen about the Crash have involved corrupted
# data. What if it was the OS itself that caused the problem? Either a
# deliberate or accidental flaw in the dominant operating system that
# inherently corrupted all data it was working with?
#
# Now I'm not trying to knock any particular system, I'm just trying to put
# it in real world terms. What if, tomorrow, all machines using Windows
# software in all its insepid forms irrevocably crashed? The entire world is
# not on Windows machines, but I would wager 90% of world wide business would
# come to a halt. Think what that would do to the economy.
#
# Just a few thoughts, and please, don't turn this into an OS war. I just
# used Windows as an example because of its prominance in the business
# sector.

Ok, here's a good one.
Most data can be imported by application on multiple platforms, excel on
the Mac and PC etc.
but, it does seem like all platforms are converging and there will prolly
only be one in the SR future, not counting Linux, Free BSD etc.
so it could be possible that the data could be re-accessed from a different
platform.
I know that the backup systems our company use are heterogenous..
*shrug*

I dunno
--
/- justin@****.mcp.com -------------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:11:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: MASKING!!! (Re: Maskig Adept)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 1:20 PM

> In a message dated 98-01-03 10:22:20 EST, vanyel@*******.NET writes:

> > Well, you said it first. ;) I do think you are trying to design your
way
> > around something - but that's your right. I just don't agree. Yes,
the
> > two types of spells are different, and therefore follow some different
> > laws. However, if you read my above example, you will see why I don't
> > agree. Also, keep
Message no. 8
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:14:23 -0500
> At this point, you are only disagreeing because you don't like the idea,
is
> that my understanding???

Um, that's not what I said is it? I said the mechanics don't support it
well, and it's yet another attempt to design around something forbidden by
the rules (at least most of us can agree to that). And if that weren't
enough, I also don't like the idea. Better?

> -K

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:03:44 PST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sniper rifles
Content-Type: text/plain

>The entire concept of brust fire and sniper don't mix well. <snip>
First off no sniper who is worth the name is going to accept anything
less than one bullet one body. Go to the local video store and rent a
copy of the movie Sniper. They give a fairly accurate portrail of a late
20th century sniper. The funny thing is it most of it would very likely
apply to a 21st century sniper as well.

I understand you are trying to say. But the aforementioned movie
is not acurate at all. I recommend reading as much books as possible
rather than movies for such a subject. Anything you can find on famed
Marine Sniper Carlos Hathcock is a good start.

>Snipers are about stealth and taking out a target at range and >getting
out no one the wiser. In some cases at ranges of 2 km or >more.

Snipers are about taking out targets at long range, with as minimal
detection as possible(lest ye be a target yourself). However, if you
take out El Presidente of a small government, or anyone of any
importance really, I assure you plenty people will be the wiser. The
trick is just not to be seen. As for taking out targets at 2km, it
should be noted that this if VERY rare. Usually your average sniper
is firing between 5-8 hundred yards... if that. Of course, in the
future, technology will probably allow this to go up, so I'm really not
going to argue the point.

>Before the sound of your shot is even heard.
>Bullets are travaling at well over the speed of sound. So Mr. Target
>could already be down and dead before the sound of shot even arrives.
>You sneak out nice and quite and nobody knows who did it or from
>where... That chummer is what sniper opperations are all about.

Well, assuming you do fire from 2km away, it's not like the sound will
take forever to arrive, I don't want to do the math on it, but I imagine
no more than 2 seconds after the bullet hits. Being a sniper is really
more about stealth to survive, not to make a 'clean getaway'.

>
>That other stuff has a name also it's called an ambush lots of fire
>power and a sniper might even be involved but you don't have to have a
>sniper to ambush someone but to call an ambush sniper work is silly...

I agree here. However, again, it should be noted that a sniper would,
and usually always does, make excellent backup should something go
wrong.


>Get a medium vercial weapon and a gyro mount if all you want is range
>and flash supressors are easy to design.
>You seem to almost if not totally clue less as to what sniper rifles
are
>why they work the way they do.

You also have to understand that sniping in an urban environment is
*vastly*(I repeat, VASTLY) different than rural terrain(like the movie
"Sniper"). In an urban setting, you are more than likely going to be
in an elevated(or maybe lowered) position, this would mean you'd have to
compensate by aiming higher than the target. The winds between tall
buildings are also stronger, so you must adjust windage for that.
Needless to say, in the city, it's very unlikely(if not impossible) to
take out someone out from OVER a mile away- then again, no telling what
technology has in store for us.



-Vagabond (nomad74@*******.com)
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or t
Message no. 9
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:44:21 EST
Pretty damn interesting book if you ask me. I'm glad I didn't get
it when I first started playing because the urge to create a munchkinish
player would have been too great. Anyways I wondering if anyone had used
any of the unique pieces of cyberware listed in there in any creative
ways. Does anyone out there have an eye laser? cybertorso? cyberskull?
has undergone cybermancy?

Lates,

Dust
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:50:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT]Missing Person Alert for SR PBEM.....I LIVE!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey, to all my players out there! I'm ALIVE! Yes, I was on vacation for
awhile {if you can call it that <groan!>}, but am back now. I'm just
tidying up the last bits of work at the office {on a Saturday <ARRGH!>},
and hammering out a storyline or two I wasn't satisfied with. I WILL NOT
sleep tonight, until I send out ALL back correspondences TONIGHT, so
look for you turns in the electronic ether! Sorry for the pause. To
parphrase...'Just when I think I'm out, they PULL me back in!'.
Oh, and HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Later.....

{figure ducks furtively back into the shadows.....<OUCH!> as bumps head
on low hanging fire escape, <WHEEEROW!> as steps on alleycat's tail,
<WHOOPS!.. CRASH!> as slips on wet cardboard, landing in a rubbish tip!
:-}

Victor

>'Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down!'
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:25:46 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Robb <GLENNROBB@*******.NET>
Subject: Re:
Message no. 10
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:17:36 EST
The Offical Cuddly Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome and Archive
Answer Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
---- in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/
NEW!!!! UIN: 6460938

"Wait a minute! First you break up with me, and now you want to sleep with
me?? What are you... A GUY??"
-- Michael J. Fox on "Spin City"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:41:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull out o' Box (was:Re: Bull-In-the-Box)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:49 AM 1/3/98 -0800, David R. Lowe wrote these timeless words:

>Yes, Virginia, I am saying that the Matrix itself could conceivably handle
>the storage and processing demands of a sentient being. In my game I have
>used it as the reasoning behind the great resonance. That is, the Matrix
>itself is quasi-sentient. It is not self-aware yet, but that is only a
>matter of time and the PC's actions.
>
>So, you could just turn Bull loose on the Matrix itself. I guess the only
>problem would be getting him back.
>
THat's a LOT how I saw the original process behind this... As well as how
I figured most AI would work,,,

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Cuddly Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome and Archive
Answer Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
---- in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/
NEW!!!! UIN: 6460938

"Wait a minute! First you break up with me, and now you want to sleep with
me?? What are you... A GUY??"
-- Michael J. Fox on "Spin City"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:53:34 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussi
Message no. 11
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:32:39 EST
On Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:28:25 -0600, s c rose wrote:

> James Lindsay wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:46:47 +0100, Gurth wrote:
> >
> > > Stefan said on 2:22/ 3 Jan 98...
> > >
> > > > If you wanna fire bursts at a longer ranger you take a steady
> > > > assaultrifel and put a scope or two on it. Preferably an AK47 or
> > > > another trustworthy AR.
> > >
> > > If you want to fire burst at long ranges, you don't take an AK-clone...
> > > Other assault rifles: maybe. A GPMG with some kind of magnifying sight
> > > would be better, though, they're more powerful and generally more
> > > accurate.
> >
> > Ah hell, if you *really* wanna burstfire sniping weapon, get yerself a
> > fully automatic grenade launcher instead. That way, the argument that "a
> > burstfire weapon would have poor accuracy" becomes a moot point :P
>
> The entire concept of brust fire and sniper don't mix well. So this
> conversation should be a moot point but at least one person in this
> converstion does not understand what a sniper rifle is.

Since you are responding directly to my post, I take it you mean me.

> > Now we're talking serious ranging and you get indirect fire capabilities
> > thrown in for free (including accurate air bursts with a Smartlink II)!
> > Muzzle flash is waaaay down and the round/weapon is pretty quiet compared
> > to a conventional rifle.
>
> Get a medium vercial weapon and a gyro mount if all you want is range
> and flash supressors are easy to design.

What's a "vercial" weapon?

> You seem to almost if not totally clue less as to what sniper rifles are
> why they work the way they do.

Ah, so you do mean me. Perhaps you should take a good hard look at my post
before finalizing your opinion of me. NOWHERE did I use the term "sniper
rifle"; the term I used was "sniping". ANY ranged weapon *can* be used for
sniping (albeit, some weapons are better designed for that task than
others).

If you would have bothered to even read the last sentence of my post (and
seen the two smilies and intentional grammatical errors), an intelligent
person could have surmised that maybe I was kidding. This "burstfire
sniper rifle" thread has gotten a bit stale and I was simply trying to add
a bit of humour to this nearly dry subject.



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 20:30:15 PST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware
Content-Type: text/plain

>I just got Cybertechnology for Christmas,
>
> Pretty damn interesting book if you ask me. I'm glad I didn't
get
>it when I first started playing because the urge to create a
munchkinish
>player would have been too great. Anyways I wondering if anyone had
used
>any of the unique pieces of cyberware listed in there in any creative
>ways. Does anyone out there have an eye laser? cybertorso?
cyberskull?
>has undergone cybermancy?

Ooooh, I'm so glad you ask. As a matter of fact, no. But, I welcome
any and all character in my campaign to make it their goal
to undergo cybermancy if they desire- as a GM, i'll even fudge the rolls
a bit in their favor. "Why?" you may ask...
Two words: Duel-nature. As soon as that good ol' essence hits the
negative numbers, they light up like a road flare in the middle of the
night. Usually, I'll have the bad guy of the week, if he's a
magic-user, just throw a few mana-spells at him w/o telling him what the
heck is going on. Or, if I'm feeling really creative, have a
Horr- er, I mean "Enemy" slap a nice little mark on him and say "Buddy!
How ya doin? Wanna do me a favor?" :)
Some, if not all, of the gear in Cybertech is pretty much whatever
players or writers couldn't think of in the first three books, and
usually my players have no desire for any of them. Even the
move-by-wire system isn't worth it's price in essence. So, the lesson
of the day kiddies: If you have munchkin players, be a munchkin GM :)
Needless to day, since I showed them the chapter on magic and
cybermancy, anyone in my group has really lost intrest.


-Vagabond (nomad74@*******.com)
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:44:21 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And Spike (Ua57) spaketh ...

> Instead of Blurring conjuring and sorcery, how about a new type of spell
> effect... Delayed.
>
> Works the same way as sustained, but the effect doesn't occur until the
> delay has been released. The spell may then (if it's sustainable) be
> sustained.
>
> That way, you could cast the spell and hold it delayed. Summon an
elemental,
> pass the spell onto the elemental and let them hold it until you want to
> release the spell. That way, you have what you want without blurring the
> bounderies of conjuring and sorcery...

I like the idea of the Delay option, perhaps making it a +1 to drain category
in terms of drain, and building in a limitation to the maximum time that a
spell can be delayed being either the force of the spell in turns (with the
aid of an elemental above perhaps lengthening the time out to minut
Message no. 12
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:22:00 -0500
though Keith has come up with an idea ... which I wonder if he'll post for
everybody to see ...

Mike

"When all else fails, Hellblast will do just finely."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:17:36 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Losthalo wrote ...

> Okay, but... if the spell is a non-entity (just a formula lying around in
> the mage's brain) how can it decide to cast itself? It isn't anything yet.
> And saying that's it's always there, a pseudo-spell waiting to finish
> casting itself, sounds odd to me... It sounds like the Contingency spell
> out of AD&D, where you cast the spell but hold off ont he effect actually
> happening (or, another example, 'hanging' spells, in Amber). If that's how
> this is supposed to work, it's a spell with basically two parts, one that
> is cast by the mage, and programmed to do the rest of the work of casting
> the spell, that sorta makes sense, though the drain for this sort of thing
> sounds kinda high (not prohibitive, just it would need to be really useful
> to justify the heightened drain, to bother researching this). Now... if
> it's an actual spell effect when it's waiting to actually 'go off', it
> should be present in astral space, visible and vulnerable to attack, and
> also count as a sustained spell (penalty to target numbers) since the mage
> is sustaining it, even if it is directing its own activity.

Okay, here goes on adding some more explanation ... first, the mage must cast
the spell for it to be able to what the caster commands it to do ... the CINAS
(Caster-IN-A-Spell, no longer SINAB) is what determines the final effect of
the spell when it finally goes into effect ... perhaps the spells which would
come under the greatest benefit from this would spells from the Health
category, as the spell could be programmed to keep the pc alive either through
Heal or perhaps even a Stabilize spell ...

And, yes, the spell is open to attack / dispelling once the caster has the
spell in effect ... though any other mage perceiving the spell would probably
be somewhat puzzled by the rather interesting signature of the spell ...

Mike

"When all else fails, Hellblast will do just finely."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:32:39 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And Losthalo wrote ...

> >Okay, I do see the point you are making ... perhaps then keeping with the
> game .. and for balance sake ... a spell with SINAB needs to be cast by the
> mage .. once let loose, the SINAB is what determines the overall success of
the
> >spell upon completion of the task(s) ...
>
> *nod* That works, yes. The reason this sort of option works with drones
> is the drone is already there, doing things, it just lacks self-direction;
> same for frames in the matrix.
>
> But it'll be a spell effect, and be vulnerable to astral attacks and
> such... Also, what would be the implications of trying to Anchor such a
> spell, etc.? You can now have an anchored spell with 'orders' to attack a
> cpecific target, etc., making Anchoring, or Quickening... very deadly.
> Assassination spells here we come.
>
> And that idea of a spell being given a target and told to 'hunt him down'
> still bugs me.

True, but this would be one application for the CINAS (formerly SINAB, which
now means Caster-IN-A-Spell) ... and sticking it onto an anchoring or
Quickening would also be an idea too ... imagine a quickened Clairvoyance
(extended) with a CINAS that has orders to communicate some way or another
that something that fits the definitions of Intruder is within it's awareness
... oh my ... magical CCSS ... or the doorstep of it ...

> >Perhaps another idea with regards to one-shot is that the one-shot is part
> of the spell design in the first place, and this would of course drop the
> drain of the spell .. but it does not mean that once the spell is cast it is
> >forgotten forever ... what it could mean is that the mage needs to go
about
> >redesigning and relearning the spell, but does not need to respend the
> karma to relearn the spell ... if a spell were done this way, I could see a
-2
> >(maybe even -3) to Drain Category for the spell ...
>
> But... why does he forget it each time? This smacks of AD&D spell
> memorization, which is usually a complaint of people that dislike that
> game, and also very different from the usual take on SR magic... Why would
> you design a spell this way?

The one reason for this would be for a spell that already has a high drain to
begin with .. for instance, doing this with Hellblast would drop the drain
code to [(Force / 2) + 2]D, instead of the usual [(Force / 2)+6]D, and some
mages would really like the lower drain that this brings ...

Perhaps something that would be eventually be developed is spells that are
built with a Very Restricted Target involved and combined with Single Shot, a
spell could be designed had that affects only one person, and the mage needs
to bother redesigning the spell and relearning it to reshape the energies of
the intial spell to then be able to affect someone else ... and yes, this
would be something an assassin mage would want to have in their repertoire ...
a spell which will only affect one person only and can be changed at some
future time to affect another person (target).

> >> >Penetration (+2 Drain Category) ... This option reduces the
> effectiveness
> >> of
> >> >Spell Defense and Initiate Shielding, and cuts their effectiveness by
> 50%.
> >>
> >> Ehhhh.. Again, I don't like this. This is like having a higher force,
> >> "only different". It's basically free successes in overcoming a
> resisting
> >> defender.
> >
> >No, this does not add additional successes to the success test ... this
> option
> >is basically APDS for spells ...
>
> Yeah, I get that, but *effectively* it just makes the spell better at doing
> damage. That can be done with higher damage codes, or higher force ratings
> already, it doesn't need this different approach.

True, but the Penetration option would be nice when you want the force 6
Manabolt to cut through someone's Spell Barrier that is at or higher than a
force of 6 ...

What this option does is make people hiding behind barriers not as
invulnerable as before ... it makes the game more dangerous ... and makes
people consider that the more protected they make themselves, the more extreme
the ideas in getting at the person will become ...

Perhaps some balance to this option is that it only works against magical
barriers and the like ... slipping in through the conduit that is the lifelink
of the spell from the astral ...

> >> I don't think blurring the lines so much between Sorcery and Conjuring
> is a
> >> good idea, unless you want to approach Mage: The Ascension in your
> games...
> >> Sorcery is Enchanting is Conjuring, if they're pushed too far, and
then
> >> why have *types* of magic? Look at how blurred magicians and physads
> are
> >> getting, when powers one has are always given an equivalent in the
other,
>
> >> things begin to lose their unique character.
> >
> >Something I w
Message no. 13
From: Wyrmy <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:57:14 -0600
"Do you take this woman to be your wife, until death do you part ?"

And from "death do you part" meant when both were dead ... not just one of
them ...

At least I got Herc back, though Keith was trying to make that a surprise for
me until I found a file wherein he was redoing Herc for me ...

Mike

"When all else fails, Hellblast wil do just finely."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:45:22 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (h
Message no. 14
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:52:54 -0500
In a message dated 98-01-03 23:31:49 EST, you write:

> Some, if not all, of the gear in Cybertech is pretty much whatever
> players or writers couldn't think of in the first three books, and
> usually my players have no desire for any of them. Even the
> move-by-wire system isn't worth it's price in essence. So, the lesson
> of the day kiddies: If you have munchkin players, be a munchkin GM :)

Though there is one piece of cyberware that when combined with MBW makes Skill
Hardwires useless and an outdated piece of cyberware ...

Mike

"When all else fails, Hellblast will do just finely."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:46:33 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re : Smart Matierals and Vehicles
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And Bruce (Rendar) stated ....

> > > Now here's a thought, using a system similar to what's on the Aguilar
> > > helicopter, design a sub similar to the "Red October."
> >
> > Are you referring to the Impellor Drive that the Red October had ? Check
> > out Amphibous Assault Package III i
Message no. 15
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:37:52 -0600
On 2 Jan 98 at 17:21, Mon goose wrote:

> >Yeah. Body's not gonna help you when that manabolt is turning you into
> >toast....
>
> No, but willpower SHOULD (unless your AIMING for a change in the effect
> of magic).

Say, why does willpower help you, when something is cooking you, anyway?

> >> BUT
> >>
> >> If the spell is stun, i get to resist with Body OR Willpower? What's
> the point of Mana combat spell
Message no. 16
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option Effects
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:07:59 EST
I hope you're going to deal with language difficulties. I REALLY hope so.
Think about it. No-one in Barsaive can speak English, and imagine even
sperethiel will be very different to the modern day variant.

(Remember, Barsaive adepts have access to the "Learn & Speak language by
just listening to someone speak for a few minutes" talent, but shadowrunners
don't.

Further Reading

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